Israel - Palestine discussion thread

This post really describes you and your opinions. I'm not a Trumpster I unlike most voted for what I think is the leaser of 2 evils
Evil 1: Guy who has already walked back all of his campaign promises, already killed a million people through dismantling protections and making ineffective decisions, stole and sold US secrets, obviously ignored several parts of the Bill of Rights (either deliberately or because he's a massive moron), attempted to interrupt democracy, and has already promised to be a dictator this time round.
Evil 2: A brown woman some perceive as ineffective.


Sure thing. I think we know what you think evil is, and it probably includes the word "uppity".
 
So, I know Trump says a lot of things about taking over a lot of countries, like Greenland and Canada recently. Now he's musing about Gaza. I know that it's not remotely clear what comes from statements like these, and they get thrown out a lot. But just for a second, let's pretend that the US decides it's time to own the gaza strip. What effects does this have (besides the obvious humanitarian effects).

If I were Israel, I don't think I'd be particularly comfortable with that arrangement. On the one hand, having an ally in the region seems like a good move. The US could help protect Israel against terrorism more effectively, and brings a somewhat like-minded approach to the region. On the other hand, the blowback against Israel and the US would be significant. But long term, the idea of the US moving in on Israel seems like it would be unsettling. Obviously we have a lot of christians that are interested in the region, and the US is not exactly non-expansionist at the moment. Israel is not particularly in a position to be standing up to the US from a military perspective. So while we could work together in the region, we could also easily end up at odds in a religious conflict.

I'm not sure Israel is any more ready to be the 51st state than Canada is.
 
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SoI'm not sure Israel is any more ready to be the 51st state than Canada is.
For all intents and purposes, looking at where the geopolitical compass is and has been pointing to for a long time, Israel is the 51st state. It just exists on your nickels and dimes without contributing anything into the kitty like the other 50 do; the United States of America's 51st state is all take, take, take with very few membership fees or responsibilities.

This Lebensraum fascist ethnic cleansing might be a wake-up that it'll have to start chipping in soon or have less of a say in its own affairs like other states but let's be real about the de facto situation.
 
If the US takes over the Gaza Strip, it's only a matter of time before another 9/11-type event happens in the US.
 
For all intents and purposes, looking at where the geopolitical compass is and has been pointing to for a long time, Israel is the 51st state. It just exists on your nickels and dimes without contributing anything into the kitty like the other 50 do; the United States of America's 51st state is all take, take, take with very few membership fees or responsibilities.

This Lebensraum fascist ethnic cleansing might be a wake-up that it'll have to start chipping in soon or have less of a say in its own affairs like other states but let's be real about the de facto situation.
As much as I understand and agree with some of the thinking behind this, I don't think Israel sees it that way. And I think if the US were to move in next door, they might start getting concerned about that.
If the US takes over the Gaza Strip, it's only a matter of time before another 9/11-type event happens in the US.
Possible it happens in Gaza though.
 
And I think if the US were to move in next door, they might start getting concerned about that.
There would be a fair amount of schadenfreude if Israel was concerned about someone recent moving in and encroaching on their territory.
 
There would be a fair amount of schadenfreude if Israel was concerned about someone recent moving in and encroaching on their territory.
Agreed.

Our president has been pretty much non-stop sizing up opportunities for expansion the moment he took office again, and he was during his first term. I wouldn't be surprised if Israel pumped the brakes.
 
Appalling both-sidesing by the NYT. "Some Palestinians willing to be ethnically cleansed" is not journalism.

From the same paper that described displacing the entirety of Gaza's population as "audacious".

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So targeting individuals that you perceive to be part of a broad collective whose members may have harmed others is bad enough because it's likely you harm individuals who have not perpetrated such harms. But also you may end up harming members of a collective you believe has been harmed by those targeted.
 
Just sent this into my local paper:

The Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu is not only bad for both Palestine and Israel, but he is also a heretic and a traitor to the Jewish people! Indeed, I would say that PM Netanyahu is an even bigger threat to international Judaism than any Neo-Nazi could ever dream of, as Netanyahu is the living antithesis of the Jewish concept of “tikkun olam.” This concept, which means “repairing the world,” entails doing good deeds called mitzvot, with the greater Jewish community ideally becoming a model society to the world. Has Netanyahu ever done anything like that? Is Israel - let alone the world - an even marginally better place with him in power? If Netanyahu and his Likud party cronies even consider some twisted new reincarnation of the “Nakba” - wherein all of Gaza would be annexed with innumerable Palestinians forcibly exiled - they will have my eternal condemnation! Meanwhile, I very well may consider donating to a Palestinian cause, to manifest another Jewish concept known as tzedakah, as that word can be translated to something we desperately need right now: “justice”!
 
This is fascinating. Democratic (and independent) voter support for Israel dramatically tanked following Israel's genocide and reached an all-time low of about 32%, while Republican support not only remained steady, but actually increased, since Oct. 7th

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That's a war crime according to Geneva convention. Highly unlikely that someone is finally gonna step up to these murderous tuckers.
 

Israel's security cabinet has approved a plan to expand its military offensive against Hamas which includes the "capture" of Gaza and the holding of its territory, according to an Israeli official.

'Capturing Gaza'

It's an invasion.

Those of us fortunate enough to have been born in stable 'western' countries really need to decide where we're parking our plums.

**** Israel, **** Hamas, **** Judaism, **** Islam, and **** Trump.. you're all arguing over land mentioned in a 2000 year old tourist information booklet, which was objectively all lies... and all it does is sustain the needless death and suffering of kids with no stake and no future, kids that if they'd attended the same class, in the same country, wouldn't hate each other - but because of religion, they do hate each other, because their parents are ****ing morons, because believers are ****ing morons.

**** all of you bastards.

You are religious, so you are morons, objectively... Jew, Christian, Muslim, whatever. Your stupidity kills, sadly if you're reading this it mostly only kills other people - it's not yourselves dying for your beliefs, it's other people - but still, the next time you turn to your god, and you think you get an answer, get a brain scan, because it's probably a stage 4 ****ing tumour.

The blood being spilled in the middle east is all on your god, our leaders, your beliefs. **** you.
 
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Smotrich, speaking to a conference on Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank, went further, making clear that many Palestinians would be driven out of the territory altogether, as part of a scorched earth offensive.

“Gaza will be entirely destroyed, civilians will be sent to ... the south to a humanitarian zone without Hamas or terrorism, and from there they will start to leave in great numbers to third countries,” the minister said.
 
** Israel, ** Hamas, ** Judaism, ** Islam, and **** Trump.. you're all arguing over land mentioned in a 2000 year old tourist information booklet, which was objectively all lies... and all it does is sustain the needless death and suffering of kids with no stake and no future, kids that if they'd attended the same class, in the same country, wouldn't hate each other - but because of religion, they do hate each other, because their parents are ****ing morons, because believers are ****ing morons.

**** all of you bastards.
You're right, but with Hamas specifically I think we start to see exactly why they were so ridiculously militant about opposing Israel.

They are not good guys, but I think there's a certain amount of leeway given when you're fighting an occupying force. This applies to all the Palestinian resistance organisations, and I sort of wonder how much faster the occupation and genocide would have progressed if there had been no resistance at all. Would the Israelis just have killed them all in the Nakba and called it a day?

Keep in mind that what Palestinians are fighting for is not religion, they're fighting for their home. Israel is doing what they are nominally because of religion, although really its just window dressing for bog standard greed and racism.

And remember, Palestine was going to be a single state with a mixed population until the US stuck their two cents in (at the behest of the Zionist factions). The US is the major cause of there ever being two states in the first place, although we should probably also not ignore that the reason that they were in a position to do so was colonialism.
Come and ****ing get me, Mossad. I could give two tugs of a dead dingo's donger, you worthless cowards.
This is the other thing worth considering. Genocide was pretty much always the plan for Israel.

Pre-1948, Muslims and Jews had been living together in Palestine in about as much peace as anywhere else in the world, as far as I'm aware. But Jews weren't a majority, and that was (somewhat understandably) scary to the Zionists in the direct aftermath of The Holocaust. But that doesn't justify wiping out another people to make a home for yourselves, especially when the US probably would have let them have a Jewish state if they wanted. They already have Utah.
I wonder if there's a name for this sort of thing and whether that thing is generally considered a crime or not?
As with many things, it's only a crime if you get caught. Or in this case, if there's someone to hold you to account.

As long as Israel keeps hiding behind the skirts of the US, and the US keeps letting them, there's functionally not that much anyone can do. The rest of the world could embargo the US I suppose, but Trump is doing that all by himself.
 
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