Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[Liquid]

"Only terrorists would use pagers"
RIP doctors, I guess.

It's such a false syllogism that it astonishingly coincides with one of the all time great false syllogisms:

Cutting people is wrong.
Surgeons cut people.
Therefore surgeons are wrong.

 

[ScottPuss20]

And yet you're happy to apply a double-standard and repeatedly defend the side that has also engaged in the indiscriminate targeting of civilians on a massive scale.

Israel is a terrorist state.

I was happy to but now I'm not. No need to get aggressive with me after I've conceded.

 

[Scaff]

I was happy to but now I'm not. No need to get aggressive with me after I've conceded.

Nothing aggressive about my post at all.

 

[inCloud]

Military wing of Hezbollah almost beheaded, there are rumours that Nasralla requesting ceasefire through Qatar(we can imagine how mad Iran government now).

 

[Scaff]

Military wing of Hezbollah almost beheaded, there are rumours that Nasralla requesting ceasefire through Qatar(we can imagine how mad Iran government now).

Source required

 

[p78]

Paging The Hague: Israel’s Exploding Electronics Might Be War Crimes

Experts on international law pointed to the indiscriminate nature of the blasts in Lebanon and the prohibition on booby traps.

theintercept.com

I truly hope they are deemed as war crimes.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Israel really didn't learn from 2006 it seems.

Is the world going to stand by again?

 

[Danoff]

I believe this is an explanation for at least one way to track phones, which may be why Hezbollah and others don't like using phones.

 

[MIE1992]

I know this may not seem all that controversial to say - at least in this thread - but I cannot help but to be skeptical of whether the funds budgeted for the IDF truly help progress American goals and interests in that part of the world. Heck, many Israelis, including my cousin who emigrated there, would argue that Netanyahu doesn't even serve Israeli interests, let alone American ones.

I'm wondering if the money we sent to the Israeli government could be better-spent elsewhere, even if we just limit ourselves to a purely military context - let alone using that money for something like funding upgrades to American infrastructure. (E.g. highways, bridges, internet, etc.) Personally, out of an admittedly morbid curiosity, I'd like to see that NGAD project get funded if it wasn't already.

 

[dylansan]

The US had concluded in two separate reports that Israel had blocked aid to Gaza—a fact which would make sending arms to Israel illegal—and Blinken lied to Congress about it so we could keep sending them.

He needs to resign, yesterday.

Damning Report Reveals How Antony Blinken Lied to Congress on Israel

Leaked documents show that the secretary of state received two explosive reports on Israel blocking aid to Gaza—right before he told Congress the exact opposite.

newrepublic.com

 

[Liquid]

US support of Israel is "ironclad", don't forget.

He might be sacked for lying to Congress but he certainly won't be sacked for allowing arms sales to Israel.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

John Stewart on the "de-escalation through escalation"



I don't think WW2 is the right analogy...but WW1 sure is applicable. Just a bunch of assholes thinking that if they swelled up their chest enough, the other guy would back down.

Also, the "it's anti-Semitism if you criticize our war crimes!" has been part of the Israeli playbook since months after the nation's founding.

 

[Tornado]

Man this is a lot of support Biden is giving for an asshole who wants to get his political rival elected instead.

 

[HenrySwanson]

John Stewart on the "de-escalation through escalation"



I don't think WW2 is the right analogy...but WW1 sure is applicable. Just a bunch of assholes thinking that if they swelled up their chest enough, the other guy would back down.

Also, the "it's anti-Semitism if you criticize our war crimes!" has been part of the Israeli playbook since months after the nation's founding.

Awful.

 

[Touring Mars]

Israel has obliterated the Hezbollah HQ in Beirut, and it's being reported that Israel were specifically targetting the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah.

At least 6 buildings in the southern suburb of Dahieh neighbour of Beirut have been leveled, and given that they are in a densely populated area, there's likely to be a very high death toll.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Screw that whole backward-ass region.

They are always going to be fighting each other.

The people of the book that worships a sadistic being vs the people of the book written by a paedo warlord.

What's not to love.

 

[inCloud]

Screw that whole backward-ass region.

I repeat my previous suggestion - move all Christians from Lebanon to Gaza(and merge it with Israel as federation) and all Gazans into Lebanon(and give all Palestinians here Lebanon citizenship). UN HQ should be moved in Jerusalem, for giggles.

 

[Scaff]

I repeat my previous suggestion - move all Christians from Lebanon to Gaza(and merge it with Israel as federation) and all Gazans into Lebanon(and give all Palestinians here Lebanon citizenship). UN HQ should be moved in Jerusalem, for giggles.

Utterly idiotic and will not solve a damn thing.

 

[McLaren]

So, the solution to "peace" is for Palestinians to basically accept forfeit of their home land to an invading Israel.

Coming from a citizen of a country that's proposed solution to "peace" is for Ukraine to accept forfeit of their eastern home land to an invading Russia....

 

[Joey D]

Imagine just going to hell with countries and segregating people by religion. Never mind that you likely have families in Lebanon where some members are Christian and others are Muslim. So we're just going to break those families apart while completely ignoring where any of them live. Also, what do you do with the Druze population? And I guess if you're an atheist, you just get booted out of the country all the way around? Segregating a population almost never works as intended.

 

[Touring Mars]

The IDF are reporting that the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah has been killed.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah are still firing rockets into Israel. For as long as they keep doing that, I'd be extremely nervous if I lived in Lebanon right now. I don't know what they think they are achieving - but like Hamas, it seems that Hezbollah will not stop even if Israel level the entire place.

 

[Liquid]

Israel sure loves making martyrs out of its opponents.

 

[inCloud]

Looks like there isn't anyone to negotiate with

 

[Joey D]

Iran says a senior commander was killed in an Israeli strike together with Hezbollah's leader

Nasrallah led the militant group for more than three decades. His death could dramatically reshape conflicts across the Middle East.

apnews.com

The Lebanese Health Ministry said six people were killed and 91 injured in the strikes, which leveled six apartment buildings.

It's little wonder why the resident Putin parrot likes Israel so much.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Why can't we expect the same of the Arab nations that we expect of Israel?

Are we infantilizing them?

 

[Scaff]

Why can't we expect the same of the Arab nations that we expect of Israel?

Yeah, that's the other way around.

Answer this, what happened when Iran tried to develop nuclear weapons? Now contrast it with what happened when Israel did develop them.

That's putting aside the fact that you're ignoring how Iran got into its current political situation, the CIA and the SIS/MI6 can answer that question for you.

Are we infantilizing them?

No, we bomb, invade, and sanction them. That is unless we've managed to install a 'friendly' regime, in which case we support them pretty much no matter what they do.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Yeah, that's the other way around.

Is it?

I'd say we're treating Iran as the bad kid and not trusting them to deal with adult decisions like:

Answer this, what happened when Iran tried to develop nuclear weapons? Now contrast it with what happened when Israel did develop them.

That's putting aside the fact that you're ignoring how Iran got into its current political situation, the CIA and the SIS/MI6 can answer that question for you.

Does that not come across as infantilizing?

Israel has been offered so much more latitude that it's created a monstrous imbalance of power in the region.

Now's the time to have a grown-up talk with both of them and to treat them as nations with the right to defend themselves.

No, we bomb, invade, and sanction them. That is unless we've managed to install a 'friendly' regime, in which case we support them pretty much no matter what they do.

OK, but that shouldn't absolve all the countries in the ME of responsibility for their different trajectories.

 

[Scaff]

Is it?

I'd say we're treating Iran as the bad kid and not trusting them to deal with adult decisions like:


Does that not come across as infantilizing?

Israel has been offered so much more latitude that it's created a monstrous imbalance of power in the region.

Now's the time to have a grown-up talk with both of them and to treat them as nations with the right to defend themselves.


OK, but that shouldn't absolve all the countries in the ME of responsibility for their different trajectories.

Oddly you appear to have done a 180 tonally from the post I replied to?

 

[HenrySwanson]

Oddly you appear to have done a 180 tonally from the post I replied to?

That post was more about how Lebanon has the opportunity to extricate itself from the clutches of Hezbollah and how we expect certain standards from Israel but not Arab nations. With some Iranians jubilant I hope the Lebanese can realise that they were being held under the thumb of terrorists.

We need to end the paternalistic way of dealing with the region. That could include Israel too if we consider our relationship with them as a "favoured son" type thing rather than just more or less indifference.

 

[Scaff]

That post was more about how Lebanon has the opportunity to extricate itself from the clutches of Hezbollah

If only they had thought of that themselves, it's not as if Iran would react negatively to such actions, and Hezbollah is just a tiny, disorganised bunch!

Your post is both fantastically simplistic and patronizing.

and how we expect certain standards from Israel but not Arab nations.

Utter nonsense, the standards to which the west holds Arab nations to far exceed those that Israel are held to. A candidate for the opposition leader in the last few days demonstrated that quite clearly!

With some Iranians jubilant I hope the Lebanese can realise that they were being held under the thumb of terrorists.

Back with the simplistic and patronising again.

We need to end the paternalistic way of dealing with the region. That could include Israel too if we consider our relationship with them as a "favoured son" type thing rather than just more or less indifference.

I agree, but do you not see how you're contradicting yourself here?