Its Offical: Saturn=Opel in US, Suzuki on the way out at GM

[YSSMAN]

A short, interesting story:

Saturn will become America's version of Opel, with decision-making being shifted to Europe, GM GM vice chairman Bob Lutz said. "Saturn would be involved early on [in planning], but I would say they're definitely the junior partner in the relationship," Lutz said. "The Opel product is good. Does Saturn wish they had an Opel Astra (compact car) instead of a Saturn Ion?" The answer is yes, he said. And do German engineers know better than their U.S. counterparts? They might, according to Lutz. He cited U.S. engineers' decision to soften the ride of the Opel Astra when creating two platform siblings — the Pontiac G6 and Chevrolet Malibu. The result, Lutz said, was inferior vehicle handling. But while Saturn will share models with Opel, production will remain separate. GM will not import German-built Opels to the U.S. and badge them as Saturns, rather identical cars will be built separately in the U.S. and Europe.

...So that means we might actually get some really good products we should have been getting for years? Wow, just who the hell is running GM these days? FINALLY GM HAS COME TO THEIR SENSES ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS!

Ohh, another interesting story about Suzuki:

General Motors revealed today that it will sell a 17 percent stake in Suzuki for about $2 billion. GM has a 20 percent stake in the company, making it the largest shareholder. It will drop to the seventh largest shareholder with just three percent, once the sale is complete. Recent published reports have also suggested that GM is considering selling its financial arm, General Motors Acceptance Corp, for $11 billion. Sales of Suzuki cars were up 39 percent last month. Late last year, GM sold a controlling stake in Subaru.

OMG, it's like they are doing exactly what any automotive enthusiest with two cents in their heads were thinking... All GM has left to do is dump Isuzu, and finially put that company down, as they havent been a force in the industry for about a gazillion years...

 

[JCE]

Good for GM, I just hope they don't butcher the front grilles and "Chevify" them like Pontiac did to the Monaro.

Also, I pray to the automobile gods that we get the Vauxhall Astra VXR sometime soon. That is one hot hatch.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, considering how much everyone hated the Ion, I wouldnt be surprised to see it replaced by the Astra. Word was that Pontiac was going to sell the "G5" which would baisicly be aslightly more upscale Cobalt, which I believe is allready sold in Canada as the Persuit.

 

[a6m5]

This is great news. 👍 It's been a while since the U.S. used to get consistent dose of Opel(their Caddy didn't to anything for me). I'm happy to hear about the release of Suzuki also. Obviously, GM could not figure out how to utilize Suzuki in the States. Suzuki should just scale down and get back to making those wonderful micro cars they used to make in the 70's - 90's. Now only if Toyota would pick up some of that 17%............

 

[JohnBM01]

First of all, I didn't know that Suzuki is part of GM. I usually hear about all the companies Ford owns (I'm sorry to mention Ford in a GM thread), but didn't know that.

I remember an Autoline Detroit episode on Speed Channel. I still seem to remember what Jerry York (is that his name?) suggested to save GM:

1. Act as if this is a critical situation.
2. Give Pay Cuts to highest authorities of GM.
3. Give EVERYONE pay cuts.
4. Sell Hummer.
5. Sell Saab.
6. Sell Isuzu.

There was one more thing, but I sort of forgot that. But from that episode, the report was that GM could be bankrupt in about three years if they keep doing things the way they are now.

As for the Ion being replaced by the Opel Astra, I'm pretty interested. I've seen the Astra in BTCC action. I think it's a very nice automobile. I'm sure that bringing it to America would be a plus for Saturn as well as GM.

I was going to end this thread, but I thought of something. Are the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice related to the Opel Speedster? I think GM may have to look to other international divisions for help. Any way they can get help... they'll take it. We just cannot ditch GM. They are as important to America's fiber of automobile companies as Ford and DaimlerChysler.

 

[Wolfe]

Are the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice related to the Opel Speedster? I think GM may have to look to other international divisions for help. Any way they can get help... they'll take it. We just cannot ditch GM. They are as important to America's fiber of automobile companies as Ford and DaimlerChysler.

From what I understand, the Solstice/Sky/GT (the Opel version is called the GT) was actually produced by americans, or at least a cooperative effort between americans and Germans. It wasn't an Opel-only effort.

Okay, so the engine that powers all three is an Opel unit, but the chassis isn't.

 

[niky]

Well, good if they sell Suzuki as they're not using Suzuki engineering to do anything in the US. Meanwhile, Suzuki's making a bunch of new cars outside that aren't making it stateside... (hello? APV? Swift?).

Isuzu is a no-brainer. Isuzu's trump card really, is their diesel engine technology, and GM isn't using that either.

 

[a6m5]

I love the new Swift. I can't get over how we get garbage like Aerial and Suzuki badged Daewoo, but still no Swift.

Edit: OH, LORD!

I was googling for more info on Swift, and I found out that Canada gets rebadged Chevy(Daewoo) Aveo as the Suzuki Swift. Just so I don't confuse some members in North America, this is the Swift I want(the real one):

2nd Edit:

I guess Suzuki is planning on bringing Swift to the U.S., probably 2007. About frickin' time!

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/suzuki_to_bring.html

 

[TheCracker]

Vauxhall/Opel Astras aren't the best in their class over here by a long shot - i would'nt get too excited, unless your Saturns are really that bad.

 

[L8 Apex]

Vauxhall/Opel Astras aren't the best in their class over here by a long shot - i would'nt get too excited, unless your Saturns are really that bad.

As a matter of fact, they are that bad. The overall fit and finish of the average new Saturn is probably as bad as, if not worse than, those of some Chinese cars.

 

[Sage]

Vauxhall/Opel Astras aren't the best in their class over here by a long shot - i would'nt get too excited, unless your Saturns are really that bad.

Ah, haven’t seen the Saturn Ion, eh? Hellen Keller could’ve designed a better interior.

 

[YSSMAN]

Its not necessiarily that the Ion was terribly bad (which it isnt), but it just was so completely outclassed by cars that had been in the market for more than three years by the time the Ion came out.

Speaking from expirience, I have driven an "Ion 3 Quad Coupe" with the CVT, and although it was much better than the car I had at the time ('93 Volkswagen Fox), I wouldnt have paid the $17K sticker price on the car. The looks of the "quad coupe" are nice, I'll give Saturn that, and the functionality of the car works well with the door setup. But when the interior smells like Tupperware and the cloth has a quality similar to '70s astro-turf, you know you are in a car that is extremely sub-par.

Most of the complaints I have had with the Ion (among others I presume) is that build quality was just not up to snuff. There werent any complaints about mechanical bits and pieces. Performance was okay at best, the chasis was compotent and stiff enough for most people looking for a good car, and you really cannot complain about the decent fuel economy.

But when Saturn replaces the S-class (thats what they called it here in the US, no relation to Mercedes), probably the best small-car ever made by Americans, you would have thought the Ion would have been better. Instead we have the incredibly stupid center positioned tach and speedo, "snap-on" model kit dashboard, and a steering wheel that belongs in Mickey Mouse's car, you know youve screwed up somewhere.

...Thats a somewhat incomplete thought on the Ion...

As for Suzuki, its a mixed blessing. They do build some interesting cars and trucks, but it isnt anything most Americans would look for. Their cars are overweight and underpowered, and although they do come well equipped and even include a good warranty, the resale value is reason enough NOT to buy a Suzuki (unless of course, it is a motorcycle).

I have always wondered why the folks at Suzuki never imported their good cars to the US. If they are fun to drive and are cheap, people will probably buy them. With all of their expiriences with motorcycles, you would think they would be building small, economic sportscars, but we never got any of them. A car like the Cappichino (sp?) would have sold well (presumably) in the US, espically with younger people, but they never gave it a chance, and thats why GM got out when they could.

...As of right now, GM's only connection to Suzuki products will be the Aveo, which is based off a Daewoo model, which I belive is related to the Reno...

What about Isuzu? When was the last time you remember someone actually comparitively shopping an Isuzu product? Now that ever one of their models are discount versions of the Chevrolet Colorado and Trailblazer, how can they actually expect to make any sales whatsoever? So far, the only good thing to come out of GM's partnership (or ownership) of Isuzu has been the Duramax diesel in the Chevrolet/GMC truck lineup, as well as the Hummer H1 Alpha. This company needs to be dropped, now, or completely consolidated into another lineup.

 

[Danny]

Vauxhall=Opel=Saturn?

But I was confused as it was!

Is there a Saturn equivalent to VXR or OPC?

 

[YSSMAN]

In the US, the high-performance Saturns are called "Red Line" models, and the economic models (hybrids, etc) are called "Green Line"...

 

[Danny]

Makes sense... not very exciting though...

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, the Ion Red Line is considered to be a pretty big performance deal here in the US. For just about 20K USD (11.5K GBP) you get 205HP, 0-60 in a bit over siz seconds, and chasis and suspension setups designed in Germany at the Nürburgring. But when you combine questionable looks, interior quality, and a bad reputation with the low-end models, youre looking at a slow selling performance bargain.

 

[niky]

The Swift is one good reason for GM to keep Suzuki, but as that would be in direct competition to their Chevy Aveo (and, dear God, the Aveo isn't even close in terms of sophistication and quality), no way will they bring it in.

Suzuki has really gotten the short end of the stick from GM... forced to sell Daewoo rebadges... (the Aveo, the Forenza/Optra (ugh!) ) which probably explains the resale value comment... out in Asia, where most Suzukis are actually Suzukis and Chevys are Daewoos, resale value is at least average.

Problem is, Suzuki's forte is small cars. The APV is a seven seater the size of your living room couch. The Swift is about as small as the Toyota Echo/Yaris and may be a little more cramped. And these are new bigger Suzukis. These are products GM sees no market for in the US. Their only other cars are small-medium sized off-roaders, and their Escudo/Vitara is far behind the competition in terms of on-road refinement. The Jimny is a robust model, nice, small, and entertaining as heck for such a simple off-roader... but again too small for the US.

God knows why Isuzu still lives. They haven't come out with anything new for years.

 

[TheCracker]

I have always wondered why the folks at Suzuki never imported their good cars to the US.

As far as i can remember the only 'good' cars that Suzuki have ever made are the new Swift (the old ones were crap) and perhaps the Cappuchino which looks like its 2/3rd scale on British roads - it would look 1/2 scale on US roads! - Suzuki should stick to what they do best, make motorbikes

 

[Danny]

Escudo!
Cultus!
GSX-R Car thing!
Wagon R!

 

[TheCracker]

Escudo!
Cultus!
GSX-R Car thing!
Wagon R!

[img=http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/2664/suzukiescudo800x60028me.th.jpg]

[img=http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/8693/suzukicultus800x60015se.th.jpg]

[img=http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/672/newsuzukiwagonr6eo.th.jpg]

...like i said, Suzuki has made few good cars (the GSX/R is a concept )

 

[Danny]

Dude! The Cultus (Baleno) is sensibly styled affordable family motoring!

The Wagon R oozes cool, especially in Japan. Seriously.

The Un-Pikes Peak'd Escudo is...meh.

 

[YSSMAN]

Here in the US, we have the Escudo... We call it the XR-7. We also had the Cultus, which we called the Esteem. That has since been replaced by the Aerio and now Forenza...

It just seems to me that Suzuki should be building small, economic sports cars, not sub-Korean economy cars.

 

[a6m5]

I had no idea that Cultus upsized into Esteem. It used to be Metro/Swift/Cultus. I can't say I care too much for the "new" Cultus(sorry, ultrabeat ). I do think Wagon R is cool though. I've always liked those. I think you guys are probably right about Suzuki cars being too small for America. I like them, but cars like the Swift and Wagon R would be a classic deathtraps here in the States.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, being that small cars are the new thing in the Auto Industry, Suzuki could probably sell off a few Swifts to compete against the Fit, Yaris, Versa, Cube, xA, xB, Aveo, etc...

 

[a6m5]

Well, being that small cars are the new thing in the Auto Industry, Suzuki could probably sell off a few Swifts to compete against the Fit, Yaris, Versa, Cube, xA, xB, Aveo, etc...

And Mini, too. Everytime I see a pic of Swift, it makes me think, "Poor Man's Mini!".

 

[Jay]

Everytime I see a pic of Swift, it makes me think, "Poor Man's Mini!".

Everytime I see it on the road it reminds me of the Suzuki concept S2 in GT4.

 

[YSSMAN]

This is what Suzuki should be building for production cars:

They still make plenty of money off their motorcycles, so why not have some fun and build cars people might want to buy?

 

[a6m5]

Everytime I see it on the road it reminds me of the Suzuki concept S2 in GT4.

I was under the impression that Concept S was the concept model of Swift. I didn't even know it was in GT4! That goes to show you how much GT4 I've played.

Edit:

This is what Suzuki should be building for production cars:

They still make plenty of money off their motorcycles, so why not have some fun and build cars people might want to buy?

I've read a long time ago, Suzuki boss said something along lines of, "I don't want to build cars that cost over 1,000,000 yen." I think 1,000,000 at the time would've been little over ten-grand, today. I think Suzuki should stick with affordable cars. That concept car looks awesome, but not so affordable. I could go for Miata type roadster.

 

[Jay]

I was under the impression that Concept S was the concept model of Swift. I didn't even know it was in GT4! That goes to show you how much GT4 I've played.

Yeah, I remember the concept S2 mainly from GT4 Prologue but its in GT4 also.

It is clearly the Swift concept.

 

[a6m5]

Nice pic, Jay. You know, come to think of it, I have seen that in GT4. I guess I just forgot about it(again, it goes to show you how I rarely play it ). Man, if GM and Suzuki actually brought this car over to the States, instead of Aveo.....