Jacques Villeneuve
- Thread starter Sureboss
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Many people in Canada love JV, they point out things like he won an Indy 500, was the youngest driver to ever win the indy car series, and is the only person in the last 7 years to win the F1 world championship, is the son and nephew of very good drivers (Jacques and Gilles Villeneuve), he's an F1 veteran, and until the thrid-string driver on whatever team he's on (Sauber this year) is faster he deserves a spot in the grid.
How else can one afford to live in Monaco and own yachts, date models etc.
How else can one afford to live in Monaco and own yachts, date models etc.
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
He was a great driver. He won the title after being barged by Schmacher (I still haven't forgiven him) and suffering form excessive tyre wear. But wouldn't you feel disheartened if you were immediatley dropped after winning the title and expected to still win races in lesser cars?
I would be.
I would be.
- 94
Well, putting aside some technical accuracy problems in that statement, I think your only prayer is that the AVF (Anti Villeneuve Front) can get you into a safe house before the POFV (Popular Organisation For Villeneuve) track you down. Opinions are extremely polarized regarding Jacques.Sureshot
Of course he IS the only other World Champion in F1 right now and he can certainly drive fast. You could read this article on another site which I found interesting:
http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/villeneuve/index.html
As to why Sauber picked him for this year. I don't personally understand that decision. Jacques has not shown himself to be a team builder, which is what I think Sauber needs. Nor has he shown an ability to cope with driving and especially improving an inferior car. On the other hand he has generated a lot of publicity for the team.
And he has more driving skill in his little finger than I have in total, then again so does Gianmaria Bruni.
- 2,767
ExigeExcel
Indeed. He didn't steal anything in 97, and had the most impressive F1 career start you could see in recent history of F1. He still has nerves of steel on the track, especially in fighting for a position in a slower car.
While I'm oviously disappointed at JV"s performance so far in the Sauber, even more so when you compare the results with those of Massa, but if you wrote this in reaction for thursday test at Sepang, you're wrong. Massa only did one very fast lap at the beginning of the second session, and when he returned on the track after that his times were within 0.1-0.2s by sector of those of JV. He was on soft tyres and fuel fumes to put a show for Petronas during his hot lap.
But the fact that he's still slower than Massa on average is not what you'd expect from him, and that'll most likely be his last season if it stays that way.
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
That's complete bull testicles. I respected Hill, I did a school project on Hill, but a driver can only go so far in improving the car for someone else. Each drivers sets up his car different.
Remember, JV might have done more if he'd stayed at Williams, but Williams did what they always do with champions...Get rid of them.
Sureshotmy rant
Why is he in F1?
He is poor, a shocking driver he only won the F1 title he did because he had a decent car made by Hill.
Pardon for the
I agree, JV did not win the 97 Championship... MS and others lost it
He was sitting in the best car on the feild, and many many times he was beaten, only for luck to go his way. But, it all counts! Now... look at Hill, he was in an Arrows at Hungary 97... an ARROWS!!! But he drove the a$$ of that car on that day.
That is the mark of a good driver to me. You can be sitting in a Ferrari, and look like the best driver in the world. But put that same driver in a mid-field car, he then has to drive with his skill, not rely on the car to carry him. JV just cannot hack it in those circumstances. When he is shown how to do it by a teammate (Button), he resorts to name calling. But, I will say this, in CART he was just awsome!
Let us not forget, from 96 until 99 MS was driving a brick, but he drove the pants of that brick... and almost did it each year (apart from the year he broke his leg at Silverstine, remind me?)! JV however was in a car that was the class of the track, so of course he was a contender, but it was the car, not him. And yes... that was thanks to Damon Hill his car was so damned good. Frank Williams has said so.
Look at Trulli, put him in any car and he makes it light up! Montoya is the same, who can forget Webber, in a Minardi!
JV is overated I think, he is riding on his (fluked) championship. I agree MS's move on him in the last race was well out of order. However, MS was honest about it. So Shumy lost all his points for that year? I bet he was bothered!
The writing is on the wall for him I reckon, the teams are getting wise he is not quite so hot as his reputation says. But let me say again... in CART he was just amazing. I have only seen one better than him in recent years in that series. Alex Zinardi!
ExigeExcelI would bloody hope so!
Just thinking, has anyone got any pictures of when Schumacher started crying after having his points wiped out due to the road ramming incident? Could make an interesting 'tar.
It was not the ramming incident made him blubber.
It was being compared to his hero, Senna! That broke the Iceman.
- 4,680
This country has plenty of good drivers. Gilles Villeneuve is perhaps the best F1 driver never to win a championship (with the obvious exception of Stirling Moss). We've also got plenty of talented drivers currently racing, such as Paul Tracy or Ron Fellows.sUn
As for Jacques, part of the reason he's sucking so hard this season is because of the new rules. He is an aggressive driver, and obviously the new rules favor more conservative styles of driving. But, the true mark of any great driver is that they can adapt to changing circumstances, and clearly Jacques can't do that. Although, he knows he is not one of the true greats of the sport, he has said it himself. I have a feeling he's going to retire from driving for good after this season.
ExigeExcel
It was a poor choice of words on my part I agree.
But the fact remains, his championship... due to other retirements and other factors was not indicative of his talent as a driver. He did not win it, other drivers lost it. If he had been in any other car he would not even have been close.
But, he DID win... F1 has always had a large slice of luck in the mix. But some have more than others.
- 2,767
Cadfael
What?
You overestimate a lot the influence a driver has on the performance of the car. Trulli is the one that made Toyota's car better than last year? No. Toyota's deep pockets, and Mike Gascoyne did it (he's incidentally paid around £4m a year if I'm not mistaken). Granted Trulli's able to perform very well with the car, but a driver's never going to turn a piece of crap in a top peformer all by himself. Just look at how uber-Schumi is struggling to keep his Ferrari in the points in the last two GPs.
Sureshot
What about the DNF rate (not driving related) of the car during these 5 years?
jpmontoya
Granted... a car has its technical limits, and no driver could change that. However, put two drivers... Trulli and JV as a for instance, in a Minardi. Now... now way will they win races, nor break any records. But I would hazard a guess that Trulli would out perform JV, simply because he is the better driver and will push harder. That was my point, some drivers know how to push a car a 'wee bit' beyond its limits. Your point about MS is spot on... as you say a crap car is a crap car. But how would that car be performing with lets say (ahem
Massa) at the wheel?Is this not the mark of a great driver over a good driver (and let us face, they all have to be good to sit in one)... that no matter what car they drive... they are able to deliver the best from it? Even if the best is not good enough to win races? Webber first drove a Minardi, but the way he drove it made heads turn and take notice.
But I am digressing a bit I know. Also, it is not my intention to be harsh to JV... he is a fine driver, just not in an Formula One car. In fact, only Montoya is an ex CART driver who has been consistanty good (not great, good!) in Formula One. Who can forget the disaster that was Andretti at McLaren, and he was a DAMNED good CART racer! My fave racer, Zinardi... I really thought he would be a star at F1, but he fell by the wayside. Not all his fault I admit. Oddly.... you can put a Formula One driver in a Cart or Indycar... and they do well. I wonder why that is?
Blake
Premium
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- haswell00
Apart from the fact the F1 cars (despite all the technical gadgets etc.) take alot more skill to drive at a competetive pace. Plus Montoya has been in nothing but decent teams since he entered F1.
Anyway, in Malaysia JV proved he doesn't he it anymore, he was clearly outpaced by his teammate, he retired the car completely due to his own driving error. If he's in F1 for much longer I'll be greatly suprised.
Blake
Anyway, in Malaysia JV proved he doesn't he it anymore, he was clearly outpaced by his teammate, he retired the car completely due to his own driving error. If he's in F1 for much longer I'll be greatly suprised.
Blake
- 2,767
CadfaelGranted... a car has its technical limits, and no driver could change that. However, put two drivers... Trulli and JV as a for instance, in a Minardi. Now... now way will they win races, nor break any records. But I would hazard a guess that Trulli would out perform JV, simply because he is the better driver and will push harder. That was my point, some drivers know how to push a car a 'wee bit' beyond its limits. Your point about MS is spot on... as you say a crap car is a crap car. But how would that car be performing with lets say (ahem
Is this not the mark of a great driver over a good driver (and let us face, they all have to be good to sit in one)... that no matter what car they drive... they are able to deliver the best from it? Even if the best is not good enough to win races? Webber first drove a Minardi, but the way he drove it made heads turn and take notice.
But I am digressing a bit I know. Also, it is not my intention to be harsh to JV... he is a fine driver, just not in an Formula One car. In fact, only Montoya is an ex CART driver who has been consistanty good (not great, good!) in Formula One. Who can forget the disaster that was Andretti at McLaren, and he was a DAMNED good CART racer! My fave racer, Zinardi... I really thought he would be a star at F1, but he fell by the wayside. Not all his fault I admit. Oddly.... you can put a Formula One driver in a Cart or Indycar... and they do well. I wonder why that is?
Indeed, Zanardi was a spectacular driver in CART. I guess some natural driving style are better suited for some cars/series, and not everyone will adapt as well to changes.
My only point about JV is I that he genuinely had an edge up until 97, then it just seemed to fade away. He recently said in an interview that being world champ early in his career was good because it took off a lot of pressure of him... well, performance-wise, that turned out to be a rather negative effect. If there's no radical change it's going to be an agonising (or short) year for him.
SureShot
Cadfael
The POFV is Coming For You. Run And Hide with your tail between your legs cuz if I catch you your gonna regret it.
Come on now. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME(The DieHard Jv Fan And so For the Rest of my life(that goes also for all canadian drives exept paul tracy(idiot)) TO SAY????
You Are Just Asking to be Flamed. Atleast Support Your Arguments With INTELIGENT THINGS.
Champ Car Years : One Of The Best Drivers Out There. Won His Second Season In Champ Car - irl - whatever. Won The Indy 500 a week after a MAJOR crash during the tests for the race. Won the series he participated in before also.
Wiliams : Never EVER DOUGHT THAT. Jv Won using a car HE ARRANGE TO HIS LIKING. not Hill who went off in a corner never to bee seen again (that was weird because Hill was a good driver too. Unless you continue with he had the best car theory then that applies to Hill also because he won the year before using a williams too.)
BAR : All non driving related dnf's.
Sauber this year : No Money No Candy. The Team is not Testing. How In BLOODY HELL do you improuve a car when you do not test it?????
Melbourne : Jv was slow. So was Massa. Jv fougth with Alonso (Not block. Fought. clearly for they passed each other 3 times) and did a good race. then thec problems and end.
Sepang : He said it clearly. He does not attack (hes not pushing) the front brakes lock up. He Pushes. The rear brakes lock up. And that is goiing to stay with the car untill atleast barhein because Sauber (lack of cash) Is Not goiing to test utill then.
Further more (im not sure who pointed this out) The New Rules are demanding.
Dont do something like this again(well im asking, you can do whatever you whant). Threads Like this Are worthless and stupid. Its like me starting a thread to say I hate Shumi. Atleast give it some backing.
Hell It all even goes to shumi. Who has been sitting in a ferrari for the last 10 years. won the last 3. the car was the best there could ever be. Now. The car isnt competitive and he SUCKS. Case and point done.
Still My Second Hand Man, My Co-Driver (My dad. the one who Introduced me to racing when I was two) is loosing hope. We Are Loosing Faithfulls in the Jv Religion. (lol)
-=Rich=- (the angry and proud Canadian)
btw : sorry for the spelling mistakes.
Btw : I was 6 when Jv started racing F1.
Cadfael
The POFV is Coming For You. Run And Hide with your tail between your legs cuz if I catch you your gonna regret it.
Come on now. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME(The DieHard Jv Fan And so For the Rest of my life(that goes also for all canadian drives exept paul tracy(idiot)) TO SAY????
You Are Just Asking to be Flamed. Atleast Support Your Arguments With INTELIGENT THINGS.
Champ Car Years : One Of The Best Drivers Out There. Won His Second Season In Champ Car - irl - whatever. Won The Indy 500 a week after a MAJOR crash during the tests for the race. Won the series he participated in before also.
Wiliams : Never EVER DOUGHT THAT. Jv Won using a car HE ARRANGE TO HIS LIKING. not Hill who went off in a corner never to bee seen again (that was weird because Hill was a good driver too. Unless you continue with he had the best car theory then that applies to Hill also because he won the year before using a williams too.)
BAR : All non driving related dnf's.
Sauber this year : No Money No Candy. The Team is not Testing. How In BLOODY HELL do you improuve a car when you do not test it?????
Melbourne : Jv was slow. So was Massa. Jv fougth with Alonso (Not block. Fought. clearly for they passed each other 3 times) and did a good race. then thec problems and end.
Sepang : He said it clearly. He does not attack (hes not pushing) the front brakes lock up. He Pushes. The rear brakes lock up. And that is goiing to stay with the car untill atleast barhein because Sauber (lack of cash) Is Not goiing to test utill then.
Further more (im not sure who pointed this out) The New Rules are demanding.
Dont do something like this again(well im asking, you can do whatever you whant). Threads Like this Are worthless and stupid. Its like me starting a thread to say I hate Shumi. Atleast give it some backing.
Hell It all even goes to shumi. Who has been sitting in a ferrari for the last 10 years. won the last 3. the car was the best there could ever be. Now. The car isnt competitive and he SUCKS. Case and point done.
Still My Second Hand Man, My Co-Driver (My dad. the one who Introduced me to racing when I was two) is loosing hope. We Are Loosing Faithfulls in the Jv Religion. (lol)
-=Rich=- (the angry and proud Canadian)
btw : sorry for the spelling mistakes.
Btw : I was 6 when Jv started racing F1.
- 2,767
[TipsOfTheDay]
Careful with typos, they sometimes sound... weird. (bad images in my head now
)
Prescription for DrDevil:
SpellCheck by either Microsoft Word, OpenOffice Writer or some NoName brand.
Posology:
Once a post (Twice recommended for flaming posts).
No offence, and I usually don't bother much with spelling, but it can become a bit of a distraction while reading your posts. The good side of it is that your english will improve a lot while you're enjoying pointless flamewars with other members around here.
[/TipsOfTheDay]
And for god's sake, die hard or not, does the fact that he's outpaced by Massa 99.999% of the time means anything to you? (Allooo!?) In 96 JV could keep up with Hill even in his first practice sessions*, so please don't bring the "he's not used to the car yet" crap. True, he doesn't really have the material to finish in the points and Sauber looks like a very bad choice for this year. But that is no excuse for him to still be trailing far behind Massa**.
* See? that's a good thing
** See? now that's embarassing
DrDevil87
Careful with typos, they sometimes sound... weird. (bad images in my head now
)Prescription for DrDevil:
SpellCheck by either Microsoft Word, OpenOffice Writer or some NoName brand.
Posology:
Once a post (Twice recommended for flaming posts).
No offence, and I usually don't bother much with spelling, but it can become a bit of a distraction while reading your posts. The good side of it is that your english will improve a lot while you're enjoying pointless flamewars with other members around here.
[/TipsOfTheDay]
And for god's sake, die hard or not, does the fact that he's outpaced by Massa 99.999% of the time means anything to you? (Allooo!?) In 96 JV could keep up with Hill even in his first practice sessions*, so please don't bring the "he's not used to the car yet" crap. True, he doesn't really have the material to finish in the points and Sauber looks like a very bad choice for this year. But that is no excuse for him to still be trailing far behind Massa**.
* See? that's a good thing
** See? now that's embarassing
- 1,481
- Tetradic
JV deserves NO more excuses. He has had how many chances to succeed since 1997? He has never lived up to anything in 6+ years.
Even Canadian fan-boys of JV have to admit that.
In AU this year JV held up Alonso for 25 laps. There was no "fighting" with Alonso. It was JV acting as moving chicane. Notice once Alonso managed to get around him he left him in the dust....
I'm not trying to be harsh here...but my god how many cars has JV driven since 1997. How many excuses has he had why he isn't competitive? Every damn time he gets in a car there is an excuse. Oh the brakes. Oh the cockpit. Oh the aero. oh the engine. Oh the balance. For almost 8 YEARS. Come on. Enough is enough.
JV, like Paul Tracy for that matter, is so full of BS it isn't even funny. JV complains. Paul Tracy whines....
Thank god for Ron Fellows to give you Canadian motorsport fans something to cheer, and cheer rightfully, for.
Even Canadian fan-boys of JV have to admit that.
In AU this year JV held up Alonso for 25 laps. There was no "fighting" with Alonso. It was JV acting as moving chicane. Notice once Alonso managed to get around him he left him in the dust....
I'm not trying to be harsh here...but my god how many cars has JV driven since 1997. How many excuses has he had why he isn't competitive? Every damn time he gets in a car there is an excuse. Oh the brakes. Oh the cockpit. Oh the aero. oh the engine. Oh the balance. For almost 8 YEARS. Come on. Enough is enough.
JV, like Paul Tracy for that matter, is so full of BS it isn't even funny. JV complains. Paul Tracy whines....
Thank god for Ron Fellows to give you Canadian motorsport fans something to cheer, and cheer rightfully, for.
Blake
Premium
- 10,976
- NSW, Australia
- haswell00
Dude, first of all, don't start every letter in a sentence with a capital, it's very annoying.... As jpmontoya said use spell check if you're spelling is that bad. I don't care about the odd mistake but your post had so many mistakes it's barely funny.DrDevil87
And no offence, but with a post like that you are just asking to be flamed. And if you want to argue, make sure your facts are correct, I can't be bothered disecting your post but one thing that really stood out to me:
When he was racing in Sepang his front brakes were locking up, so he changed the brake bias more towards the rear, he over compensated with the brake bias adjustment and got the rear of the car loose, that's why he spun, not because he was pushing too hard, because he was an idiot...
Blake
