Joey's Cooper Thread; Suspension Thoughts

[Jim Prower]

...I think it would look funny. I say buck the trend.

 

[Azuremen]

Well, on a side note, you can run tires below the wear line without any real issues. For a while. Grip depends more on the compound than the tread design and depth. Well, till you get to standing water and snow.

On the Rewinds... 15x7 or so, right? $125 over at discount tire direct. RT-615 205/50/15, $82

Total, out the door, shipped... $930.

Tossed in some Yokohama Ice Guard... 185/65/15

Total... shipped. $1260.

Toss in about 40 dollars for each set to get mounted... 1350 or so. And you don't need to bother buying the wheels and RTs till spring.

Trust me on this. Having dedicated tires will make BOTH last longer. You won't spin your all seasons pointless trying to get around. You won't have trouble getting around. It will cost a little more upfront, but having 60% the stopping distance you would with all seasons is worth it. Gives you way better odds to avoid a fender bender, and thus an insurance claim, and higher rates. All to spend a few dollars more now than later.

 

[Joey D]

It's illegal in the state of Michigan to run tires below the wear line, if a dealer or tire place sees that they are below the wear line they deem the car undrivable or something and you have to sign a waiver before driving it. I've never had it happen to me but more then one person have told me they've been caught with this. Maybe it's something made up by the dealers and tire places for legal reasons, I don't know.

I know winter tires are better, I'm not disagreeing with you. $430 versus $1,260 is a huge difference though. I have the money but I don't want to spend it on rims and tires as I need to set it aside for other things (investments and more importantly a house). Plus given Michigan's economic state I don't know how my job will pan out over the next year so putting down that kind of money right now is iffy.

If the weather gets to bad I do have my dad and I's S-10 that I can drive. He fit a brand new set of all terrain tires on it a couple weeks ago and it handles snow just fine although we haven't gotten more then 4" at once yet.

All I want is a set of all seasons that work in the summer rains decently well and in light snow (2-4" which is typical).

 

[Azuremen]

Just buy the snow tires off the site then, or locally. Then come spring place the order.

It is illegal every where to run tires below the wear bar. Its a $100 or so dollar ticket here. Generally no one notices till you have seriously questionable wear though... like flat spots and such. With how I drive and what not, it is almost pointless for me to pay full price on tires, when I can get random used ones for next to nothing, trash them, and throw them away.

Just tires are the difference between "oh, ho hum, driving along and everything feels normal, but not that responsive" to "hey, look, I think I can make this turn and I can. And the steering response is instant. I just passed a Corvette on an off ramp. And I don't have to listen to horrible screeching tires when I push my car" in the summer and in the winter "hey, I can out do all the Subarus and 4x4s. And I don't mind driving in the snow at all, it is actually kind of fun."

I just can't honestly recommend real, all season tires to anyone that actually cares about their car and driving. Soft sidewalls for the summer, rather underwhelming grip in the winter, and they never last as long as they are suppose. Plus the noise they make when they slip. That sound... so wrong.

Sorry, just can't do.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not all about driving aggressively though, sure I did it when I first got the car but realised that was going to get me into trouble somehow. About the only thing I do that others probably see as reckless is the speed on the freeways, but 110mph isn't uncommon here and it's what the flow is doing. Sure I like to have fun with my car but I don't push it, I'm probably at 50-60% of what the car is capable of on the stock tires and my abilities.

All I'm looking for is quiter and more comfortable tires (the OEM ones are rough and loud) with better performance then the stock ones. Per the members on NAM the Generals I'm looking at will do that without a problem. The Bridgestones Potenza's are also recommend, but according to a guy I know from school that has them on his Ion they aren't any good on dirt roads or soaking wet paved roads.

I can't recall in the past 6 months a time when I slipped the tires entering a corner, braking hard, or accelerating. I don't think that's going to be an issue for me. Sure if I drove in a more spirited manner I probably could justify having performance summer tires but cruising on the highway or doing 60mph through backroads in Michigan (which are flat and straight) doesn't really seem like it warrants it.

Like I said, I fully understand why snow tires are good, but for the money I would rather have something perform decent all year around. I had HydroEdge's on the Blazer and never really had any complaints about them, sure the truck wasn't great in the snow but I think having a short wheel base, RWD, and an inexperienced me behind the wheel had a lot more to do with it then the tires.

 

[eiriksmil]

Traffic is flowing in 110 mph..?

All terrain tires are frankly BS. My Taiwaneese all-seasons are hopeless on ice, black ice and snow. In the mornings these days, I lose traction in second gear. 90 bhp.. Cheapskates stud tires for winter stuff, expensive, soft stuff for the summer.

 

[Joey D]

Michigan highways are interesting to say the least, traffic flow isn't always that fast but 90mph is typical. Get near the Ohio boarder on I-75 and the rate of speed is insane, I guess it's the last ditch attempt to be free before entering traffic law strict Ohio.

The truck has Firestone Destination A/T's on it, they are supposed to be really good. He's been driving the truck lately and said there has been any issues. He also has his van which has Duelers on it, which I'm guessing are ok. I don't drive the van though.

 

[Joey D]

So the tire issue was solved today, I dropped my car off at Tire Warehouse around noon and picked it up at 2. I ended up going with Yokohama AVID TRZ tires in 185/60/15 and for the the price I really couldn't complain. $403.95 included the tires, install, disposal of old tires, life time rotating and balancing, a warranty, and nitrogen inflation. That's far cheaper then Discount Tire quoted me, about $100 cheaper actually.

I've put about a 100 miles on them today and so far I really like them. They are much quieter than my Continentals I had on there before. They are also much smoother over bumps, my car no longer gives me a spine shattering ride. Hydroplaning resistance is up, which I tested on several occasions today with the massive amount of rain we've been getting. The handling is different now but that's to be expected with new tires.

All in all I'm pretty happy with them, it came down between these and the Pirelli P4 Four Seasons but after asking around the MINI forums a couple people that had gotten the P4's were fairly unhappy with them and I was recommended the Yokohama's. Summer tires and rims might come at a later date but there are to many other things I would rather put the money into right now. Plus the rims on my car aren't that bad so I'll deal with it, and I probably won't have the car long enough to really make rims mean anything any ways.

Here is a better picture of the tread since the one from my car is a bit hard to see since the tire is wet.

===

Since we've had so much fog today I though I would shoot some pictures, I think some of these came out pretty cool.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I still think even though you said you were tight on money, you should have just went ahead and bought some snow tires. You still would have had another 3 months of snow to save up for another set of wheels and tires for summer, and you probably would have payed around the same as you did for those.

 

[Philly]

Yeah. I thought that everybody in Michigan ran snow tires in the winter.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yeah. I thought that everybody in Michigan ran snow tires in the winter.

Nope, most in Michigan just run all seasons year round. Some people run snows, but not many.

 

[Joey D]

I still think even though you said you were tight on money, you should have just went ahead and bought some snow tires. You still would have had another 3 months of snow to save up for another set of wheels and tires for summer, and you probably would have payed around the same as you did for those.

That would have been a terrible waste of money. I should have stated it differently though, I'm not tight on money, I only budget myself x amount of dollars to spend on things like my car. Also I took in to consideration that I didn't want to store snow tires, pay $60 to put them and then another $60 to put the other tires on, or have to buy new ones next winter because they are already wore out. Just about everyone I know who has snow tires only has them last one winter.

And as I've said in the other thread concerning snow tires, you could always just slow down and give yourself more stopping time. That would solve a lot of people's issues in the snow. Plus we only ever get a few really good snows here every year and I have the S-10 for that. A 2-4" snow fall is nothing and all seasons will do just fine.

Yeah. I thought that everybody in Michigan ran snow tires in the winter.

No most people run all-seasons here because of our weather patterns, I mean it was 60 yesterday and all the snow is gone. The only people I know who run winter tires are those who bought a car with summer only tires on it.

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah. I thought that everybody in Michigan ran snow tires in the winter.

Depends.

My Step-Mom ran snow tires on her 2003 Altima because she could, same with my Grandparents on their cars before they started living in Florida for half the year. They always try to convince me to get snow tires for any of the cars I've had, but like Joey, I don't really see the point.

Well designed all-season tires will do just fine for the overwhelming majority of the year, and although it may make some travel a little more difficult at times, you save a fair bit of money. I've got Goodyear Eagle M+S tires on my Celica, they perform pretty well... Enough to keep the car going when it needs to.

On Topic:

Sounds like you got a good deal on a nice set of tires. Although I must admit that the tire place you speak of is unheard of around here. Seems like everything is either Discount or Belle Tire. I refuse to go back to Discount, so chances are that when I have to replace the Goodyears on my car next year, I'll order from Tire Rack or go to the local Goodyear shop.

 

[Joey D]

Tire Warehouse could be an independent store, I'm not actually sure. After looking around on the net it seems that most of them are out east.

===

Update on the tires:

We got snow last night, about 3-4" and since Oakland County is ran by idiots that don't think people need to actually drive anywhere the roads weren't clear this morning. Driving was like night and day compared to the last snow storm we had. I didn't even spin the tires once and the traction control only came on when the only county maintenance truck working flew past me and caused me to have a bit of an off road excursion. I am extremely happy with how these tires perform in the snow, sure they might not be as good as winter tires but for significantly less money my car now performs how it should in the snow.

 

[Philly]

I wonder how much better they are than the old tires even given the fact that your new tires haven't had much wear.

 

[Joey D]

I wonder how much better they are than the old tires even given the fact that your new tires haven't had much wear.

Well I got the car in November of last year and we got a pretty good snow around the middle of December. I remember they were ok, not great but far from being as good as these area.

 

[Joey D]

Wow I haven't updated this in a while.

I recently purchased a GPS mount from CravenSpeed, a company that specialise in MINI aftermarket parts, because I was sick and tired of having that big suction cup thing in the middle of the windscreen. It was in the way and decreased visibility so I wanted to find something else. The mount from MINI themselves was as you expected very expensive since it's "OEM". Look around the NAM forums I found that there were two choices in mounts, one was a Kuda mount which looked complicated to install and this CravenSpeed one which took me about 20 minutes to put on.

I think this is going to come in pretty handy since I'm planning on doing a lot of adventuring this summer with the car and having a GPS is defiantly a lifesaver, especially one as good as the Garmin nüvi 760. Also the GPS doubles as a bluetooth, hands free, mobile phone adaptor and never really worked since it was to far away for me to be heard. Now with it right by where I drive I can use that and no longer have to fiddle with the mobile while driving, another safety benefit.

Any ways here are some pictures of what it looks like:

Yes I have a graphic of my car on my GPS, someone on the NAM forums made a ton of the different colour schemes for the MINI's and let members download them. I think it's pretty cool .

Here is a link to the kit I purchased: CravenSpeed

 

[Tornado]

I think that is a pretty slick spot to put a nav system. It appears that it would be less distracting there, but does it cause any blind-spot problems or glare up from the side windows?

 

[Joey D]

I think that is a pretty slick spot to put a nav system. It appears that it would be less distracting there, but does it cause any blind-spot problems or glare up from the side windows?

Probably but everything glares off the side window. The MINI's windows are annoying because of the coating they put over them and the way they are curved, it really does reflect everything in the car. I'm used to it though.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm still not a fan of GPS units, but I'm glad to see that you have a safe mounting point that isn't as distracting as the window-mounted units. I suppose that when I actually upgrade to a halfway decent phone, perhaps I'll use the GPS in there to fiddle around.

 

[Joey D]

I'm still not a fan of GPS units, but I'm glad to see that you have a safe mounting point that isn't as distracting as the window-mounted units. I suppose that when I actually upgrade to a halfway decent phone, perhaps I'll use the GPS in there to fiddle around.

GPS's are extremely handy if you drive a lot, especially to places you've never been to before. I go to clients homes all the time and it's so much easier for the man in the box to guide me there over fiddling with MapQuest directions.

===

I used the GPS for the first time today since installing the bracket and it's in a much safer and easier to use spot. The bluetooth capability also makes sense now and I used it while driving to a clients house to make phone calls...all while keep my hands and most of my attention on the road.

I think I might flip the bracket around through as having it on the left side makes it annoying to use with the charging cord. I'm going to use it on the right for a couple more days and see, then I might switch it to the other side to see how it works. It's just a royal pain because I have to remove the tac from the steering column to adjust the bracket. One thing I am concerned about, and you can see this from the pictures, is if I put it on the right it will be in the way of the vent. That will be fine for the summer with the A/C but during the winter I don't want hot air blowing on it.

 

[Philly]

The bluetooth capability also makes sense now and I used it while driving to a clients house to make phone calls...all while keep my hands and most of my attention on the road.

Please, please say you didn't mean that. There is nothing that I hate more than people chatting on their bluetooth thinking that it somehow makes them a better driver. Bluetooth does NOT make you a better driver. It just frees up one hand. Your head is still just as wrapped up in that conversation as it would be holding the phone to your ear.

This is something my parents taught me. Because there have been several occasions where I'm in a mad dash to grab on to anything I can while my parents try to merge onto the highway with a very short on-ramp at 50 while traffic is going 65. And then they head straight to the left lane and camp out there at 55.

The safe solution is to not make any calls while driving. The only time I will ever answer the phone while driving is to say that I'm driving and I'll call back.

 

[nobuffalo]

I'm still not a fan of GPS units, but I'm glad to see that you have a safe mounting point that isn't as distracting as the window-mounted units. I suppose that when I actually upgrade to a halfway decent phone, perhaps I'll use the GPS in there to fiddle around.

I think a GPS is one of those things many people don't like or think it won't be that helpful but when they use one they change there mind. My woman just got me a Garmin Nuvi 205 for my birthday and it's probably the coolest thing i've had since my..my.. I don't really know but it's pretty neat.

 

[Joey D]

Please, please say you didn't mean that. There is nothing that I hate more than people chatting on their bluetooth thinking that it somehow makes them a better driver. Bluetooth does NOT make you a better driver. It just frees up one hand. Your head is still just as wrapped up in that conversation as it would be holding the phone to your ear.

This is something my parents taught me. Because there have been several occasions where I'm in a mad dash to grab on to anything I can while my parents try to merge onto the highway with a very short on-ramp at 50 while traffic is going 65. And then they head straight to the left lane and camp out there at 55.

The safe solution is to not make any calls while driving. The only time I will ever answer the phone while driving is to say that I'm driving and I'll call back.

I know that it's not the safest thing to do, and I don't like making calls while driving, however in business I'm in I have to be on the phone while driving. I really find it no more distracting then say talking to a passenger. I know Bluetooth doesn't make driving all that much safer, but it does allow me to keep my eyes on the road instead of attempting to dial a number.

I guess it's better than the alternative, but yes I agree with you the safest thing to do is pay attention while driving.

 

[Philly]

I guess there's really no reason to get into a bluetooth vs. handheld argument, because there really isn't much sense to talk about there. Just as long as you know that you're still probably going to be very distracted whether using hand held or hands free devices, I guess that's the best you can do if you must be on the phone while driving.

And you don't exactly come across as the type who would say "Oh, bluetooth. That means it's safer to use than a regular phone, so that means that it doesn't impair my driving abilities at all."

I do wonder how I'd react to the GPS things. I'm kind of in the same camp as Brad thinking that they are pretty useless. I always got bored with them within 5 minutes of getting into a car with one, and I quite like the standard console in cars without the GPS. Plus the ones I've had in rental cars have driven me crazy. I'll still prefer to figure the area out with a map I think, but who knows. Maybe I'd warm up to a navigation system.

 

[Joey D]

Ok, so I hate my tires. I mean really, really, really hate my tires. They provide excellent grip in the dry, great wet and snow traction, are very quite, and are more comfortable than the runflats that were on the car before. However, anytime I go above 75mph or get on piece of road that has the concrete combed with the flow of traffic the car wiggles all over the place. I've had the car aligned and the suspension check and both the dealer and an independent European car shop both declared that it was the tires that was causing the problems. The dealer said they didn't have a high enough speed rating as MINI's require at least an H rating (130mph) and the Euro car shop just said the tread pattern made the tires handle wonky on combed roads like that.

Long story short I found a buyer for the Yokohamas, a buddy of mine is going to throw them on his beater Neon for the time being. This means I need new tires that don't suck. I still need all seasons as I can't justify having two sets of tires, especially since I'm starting to look at living in places where snow fall is a lot less severe than Michigan. I don't need anything aggressive either. Just something to get me around and not annoy the hell out of me on long trips. The only issue is they have to be at least an H rating so the MINI dealer quits having kittens over it.

I wouldn't mind doing the 205/55/15 size on my car but I'm pretty sure my rims are to narrow and it would look ridiculous. A buddy of mine who works at Discount Tire now has made some suggestions and said I could go down to a 195/55/15 and the tires would be a bit cheaper and work just as well. Not to mention look a little less chunky.

So this is what I've come up with, any help would be appreciated. And like I said I'm not getting dedicated summer and winter tires.

Goodyear Eagle GT's

The reviews have been promising on this tire, Yokohama W4's performed better but I think I'm done with Yoko's after the piss poor performance my current tires gave me even after positive reviews. They are V rated to which means 149mph, my car doesn't go that fast...not that I would know.

Continental ContiExtreme Contact

These would have to be the 205/55/15 size but the reviews on them are awesome, especially from the Cooper crowd. They all say the car handles fine in snows of 4" or less, which is about all I'll really be in most of the time. And I do always have the ghetto S-Dime for anything worse.

So I turn once again to the car guru's of GTP for advice.

 

[Keef]

I would avoid a 205/55 size. Remember, the "55" is an aspect ratio, it being the height of the sidewall as a percentage of the width. A 205/55 ends up being over a half inch taller overall than a 195/55. Conversely, a 205/50 is only slightly shorter than a 195/55, but that's the size you should get if you want a near-stock diameter but more width. I have 205/50-15 tires, and they're pretty beefy (though summer tires are typically wider than usual), even on my 7 inch wide wheels. I'm not diggin it for the Coop.

At the bottom of that "Tests" page on Tire Rack there's a button to show you the test result charts. That's very helpful. Apparently the GT is is pretty much on par with the W4 in terms of dry performance, but the GT is also noticeably better in the wet. Apparently it's not the smoothest tire out there, but people who buy tires because they're smooth scare me. The wet performance of these tires is good enough for me not even to consider the others. Amateurs like us might never be able to tell the difference, but every little bit counts for safety.

The design of it is interesting. I'm not big on symmetrical designs because my car has a bit of static camber while I'm going down the road, so the inside edge is touching the ground more than the outside. It's nice to have some water channels and a "normal" tread in that area, like the Goodyears were designed for. Then on the outside these Falkens have big huge grippy blocks where you need them, when the tires roll over a little bit in the corners. The Goodyear is similar, but toned down a bit.

Btw, that GPS bracket is nifty stuff. I love GPS. Whenever I can get our Nuvi from my dad's scooter I go out cruising all over the city looking for places I've never been.

 

[Joey D]

The car originally came with 175/65/15 on it so per that tire calculator on miata.net 205/55/15 is the closest thing to how the stock tires were. I realise they are chunky but I really don't mind chunk to much. Sure it's going to look silly but whatever, if it works well I'm not going to complain. A 205/50 would throw off the speedo by to much and my speedo was off before getting the tires I have now.

To do 195's I'd have to go with a 195/60/15 tire to keep a similar size to the OEM tires.

 

[Keef]

Ah, I see. Keeping a near stock diameter is good, but if it must change I'd recommend going smaller. That will make your speedometer read fast, which means the cops won't be on your Italian Job ass so much. Besides, 195/60 is a little thick. 195/55 is stock on my car, and it looks decent. I say go for that also.

 

[Joey D]

The speedo already reads about 5mph too fast which is annoying in itself. MINI has tried to correct the problem but for reason they couldn't. The only reason I know it's off is because of the GPS.

195/60 and 195/55 don't vary by that much so I probably should go with the 55. Probably give me better handling too.

I think I am going to go with the Goodyears, as much as I want the Conti's I think the hugeness of them would look a bit weird.