Joey's Cooper Thread; Suspension Thoughts

[YSSMAN]

Besides I can't even find a dealer in the area that sells Toyo tires.

Doesn't Belle Tire carry Toyos over there?

 

[Azuremen]

S'fine, but I've had the car 6 years and it's on its second set of them.

I swapped the P6000s off, in reasonable condition, when it became apparent they sucked wang. The T1-Rs transformed the car - in the dry, wet and snow. We went to a friend's back at the ass end of February and left quite late at night while their entire street (and much of the neighbouring two) was a block of compacted ice of varying depths and the time meant it was about as cold as it was going to get (I recall it was -3 that night, so about 25F - we're also right on the coast and are susceptible to Arctic and Siberian winds) and I just left without fuss - while a neighbour of theirs was just losing traction everywhere and struggling.


Now, I'll grant you I grew up in one of the coldest, highest, snowiest, hilliest cities in England and, as such, learned adverse conditions driving quite early on in my driving career. But the car itself is a cracker in the crap and the tyres have improved that somewhat.

I'll add that we shod the nearly-twice-as-powerful ST220 on them as well and we didn't have any issues while living in Cambridgeshire in the week-a-year it snowed either. And they were an awful size - 225/40R18.

Curious. I've just developed the mindset of having dedicated winter and summer tires. After driving for near 8 years with 5 months of snow and ice, I've come to appreciate the benefits of proper snow tires in the snow. Yes, I've gotten around on the XS and Azenis on snow, but hills were daunting and stopping distances were absurd. And I had no idea what the tires were doing when turning. With the snows on the MR-S I can drift around and have plenty of grip compared to most AWD cars shod in All Seasons.

As for you Joey - You are insane if you think $400 dollars for a set of wheels is reasonable. You will be hard pressed to find anything for less than that, without going second hand or steelies.

And with you getting new wheels - GET REAL SUMMER TIRES. Then buy snows and mount them on your OEM wheels. It will cost the same or less in the long run since you can get very, very grippy summer tires for under $100 each. Then buy snow tires when winter comes. You'll have a safer car for snow and summer then, and a night and day difference when it comes to getting around in poor weather.

 

[Joey D]

Doesn't Belle Tire carry Toyos over there?

I wouldn't go to Belle Tire if they were giving stuff away. They probably do but I haven't even looked. The last time I went to Belle Tire they didn't realise the Blazer was lowered and got it really stuck on the alignment rack and did some decent damage getting it unstuck. Frankly they can below me.

I want to use Discount because I'm fairly certain I can work a deal out with them. I'm thinking these rims now because they look better and gotten praise from some Miata guys for being good wheels, whereas the other ones have nothing on the net about them. I'm not ready to guinee pig them.

As for you Joey - You are insane if you think $400 dollars for a set of wheels is reasonable. You will be hard pressed to find anything for less than that, without going second hand or steelies.

I'm cheap, what can I say? All I want is something wider so I can stick a wider tire without issue. 195's on a 6.5" wide rim should be good, or at least that's what the internet tells me. Oh and having it look halfway decent is another goal. I'm not really all about brands since like many of you I'm not really into the tuning scene.

And yes I considered the "you get what you pay for" philosophy, but after searching on the net I cant' really find much in the way of MB's are crap. Only one post by some backwoods mechanic from Wisconsin or something said they were bad, but he had put some huge size on his car with rubber band tires. Then proceeded to drift it on public streets and hit a pot hole. Yes your rims will break when you fall into a pot hole sideways. Past that everything else has been great daily driver rims for the cheap.

And with you getting new wheels - GET REAL SUMMER TIRES. Then buy snows and mount them on your OEM wheels. It will cost the same or less in the long run since you can get very, very grippy summer tires for under $100 each. Then buy snow tires when winter comes. You'll have a safer car for snow and summer then, and a night and day difference when it comes to getting around in poor weather.

I'm pretty sure one of the OEM rims is bent and I am not paying whatever absurd price MINI charges (I have to assume it's absurd) to have it replaced. Plus I think I already have the OEM rims sold to a buddy who's going to use them on his Civic (why I don't know) and he seems to think he can fix the bent rim by adding wheel weights (whatever).

I have no need for grippy summer tires, I seriously gave up driving like that. I also don't really need snow tires because like I said I have the S-10 for days when it's to bad and all I really want is something to get me home if it snows while I'm at work. I tend to avoid driving in the snow unless I have to. I also can not justify buying 8 tires with one set only really being used 6 or 7 days out of the year.

I think it's because you do get a ton of snow where you are and we don't. It's just cold as hell here during the winter and really only gives us and inch or two at a time. This past winter was a bit much though, but it was way atypical.

The only reason I'm looking for high performance all-season is due to the speed rating so MINI quits harping at me about how I'm going to die because my tires are only rated at 118mph instead of 130mph. If it didn't matter I'd just get Michelin Hydroedges like I had on the Blazer (which I loved).

Trust me, I understand what you are saying and I have no doubt all snow tires will be superior to all-seasons in the snow. But I just can't seem to justify it considering how little snow this side of Michigan gets. Now if I was Brad I'd have snows for sure.

 

[Famine]

Curious. I've just developed the mindset of having dedicated winter and summer tires. After driving for near 8 years with 5 months of snow and ice, I've come to appreciate the benefits of proper snow tires in the snow. Yes, I've gotten around on the XS and Azenis on snow, but hills were daunting and stopping distances were absurd. And I had no idea what the tires were doing when turning. With the snows on the MR-S I can drift around and have plenty of grip compared to most AWD cars shod in All Seasons.

We don't get snow here like we used to, that's for sure. But even when we did, I don't ever recall my dad putting winter tyres on his cars (in fact I distinctly recall one of our cars having skinny little crossplys...). Maybe my dad and I are a bad examples - he was an amateur rally driver and grew up in the valleys of Wales (desolate countryside, prone to snow drifts and 1 in 6 roads) and he taught me to drive and I grew up in Sheffield (desolate city, prone to snow drifts and 1 in 6 roads). But I can still offer an objective assessment that T1-Rs offer me far more "adverse condition" grip and communicativity (it's a word!) than other tyres I've used on all cars I've used them on (err... MX-3 V6, MX-5 Mk2, Mondeo ST220). With the rider that I've never used winter tyres ever.


As with Joey though, the UK gets a week of snow a year - which is typically two actual days of snow and 4 days of panicking - so it really isn't worth summer and winter tyres for pretty much the entire population. I wouldn't even know what a winter tyre looks like! The T1-Rs might be classed as "summer" tyres, but they're capable in all conditions up to and including fords (don't ask).

Which brings me onto one last irrelevant point...

I have no need for grippy summer tires, I seriously gave up driving like that.

While I can't say I don't get as much use as I possibly can from grippy summer tyres - indeed this set ran 200 miles after fitting and then given a track day - there's a giant safety aspect there. Tyres are the most important brake components and the first step in any brake upgrades. Stock brakes will lock stock tyres - you have enough braking force to overcome the tyre's coefficient of friction. Upgrade the tyres and now you can waste less braking force - or rather use more of it!

I've upgraded all the easy parts of my braking components (T1-R tyres, Mintex 1144 pads, Black Diamond discs) on the MX-3 and can decelerate from 55mph in 70 feet (tested, no thinking distance) - not because I "drive like that", but because active safety is a great backup in case the passive safety all goes tits up (and, as it happens, I've not had to rely on it even once in gone 4 years now!). Without the tyres providing the extra grip, I'd be sliding along (well, I wouldn't - the MX-3 has ABS) wasting giant chunks of decelerative abilities.

Grip is great for going, but so very, very vital for stopping.


And it's all irrelevant because you can't get Toyos

Tried Goodyear Eagle F1s?

 

[Omnis]

My dad had F1s on his C55. The first set were great but the second were terrible. The 2nd set made noise like hell.

 

[Famine]

Actually, we did have an issue in the UK with non E-marked (certified for European use) Eagle F1 GSD3s... Cheap Chinese imports which, while wearing the name legitimately, were just crap.

GSD2s also aren't as good.

 

[Azuremen]

On the tire size, I suggest the 205/50/15 because they are a more commonly used size for everything and you'll likely find cheaper tires in that size. And they will fit fine over 6.5 inch wide wheels, as the Rotas on the MR-S are 15x6.5 and the XS fit fine over them.

Famine makes an excellent point on stopping distances. The stock 60-0 MPH on my car was 110 feet or so. I have not tested it but it is under 100 now. Setting my ABS now is a rather tricky task that I think upgrading my pads might help with, but it is a large difference in stopping - to the point I am concerned about people behind me if I have to make an emergency stop.

 

[Keef]

My dad had F1s on his C55. The first set were great but the second were terrible. The 2nd set made noise like hell.

Goodyear makes approximately 123 different tires, all with "Eagle F1" somewhere in their name, and they range from horrid crap to glorious things seemingly made of witchcraft, like the GSD3.

You know those Eagle F1 Supercar tires they put on Z06s and Ford GTs and whatnot? Those tires are the single reason those cars weren't any better than they were. If the GT was shod with them the car would still be a staple in comparison tests of similar cars. Hello, Scuderia and LP560-4.

Also, I'd like to reinforce the point that all-season tires are made for a reason, and are perfectly acceptable for reasonable driving habits such as yours Joey, and for people who would rather not stack another set of wheels and tires in their room for half a year. All-seasons aren't my style, especially after sampling proper summer (and winter) rubber, but they work just fine.

 

[Joey D]

Well I actually ordered everything today. Tires and rims, they should be here on Tuesday since they didn't have the rims in stock.

I got the 16x7 Mesh X's because they looked far nicer on the car when I shopped em. I went with the 16's because there was a $9 difference between the 15's and 16's including the tires. How can I say no to that? Got 205/50/16 Goodyear Eagle GT's as well, they won't throw off my speedo really either.

The final price was really good too. They gave me each tire for $90 (listed $101) and each rim for $90 (listed $98). Plus a free installation kit with wheel locks, not that I expect anyone to steal these. They are also going to buy my used Yoko's back since I have no use for them. All in all it's like $750 for wheels and tires and it really could be a whole lot worse.

And with the all season, I agree with what you are saying Keef. If I had a manual Cooper S you bet you ass I would have summer and winter tires, but really for driving to and from work and a couple of weekend adventures I don't think I need them. You guys are way more into spirited driving than I am...I know I'm lame.

 

[Azuremen]

What was the OEM size for the tires again? I'm thinking you said like 195/55/15?

I remember the 205/50/16 setup I had the MR-S rubbed a little bit...

 

[Joey D]

OEM was 175/65/15, although the off set on these rims is different. According to my buddy at Discount they should be flush with the fenders and mudguards.

Guys on the MINI forum run way wider tires than 205's, some even run 225's. The Cooper S's come with 205's if you get the 17's on them. There shouldn't be a problem but they told me they will test fit them first.

 

[ferrari_chris]

Make sure you throw up some pics when you get them on there Joey.

 

[YSSMAN]

Got 205/50/16 Goodyear Eagle GT's...

They're decent tires. I forgot that mine were Eagle GTII's, whatever kind of difference that is. Problem is that the snow traction blows. Tire Rack's figures show that. Otherwise, a solid buy. Keep them inflated though, otherwise the ride goes to pot.

 

[Joey D]

Make sure you throw up some pics when you get them on there Joey.

Come on you should know I have this unhealthy obsession to photograph my car, it won't be a problem .

They're decent tires. I forgot that mine were Eagle GTII's, whatever kind of difference that is. Problem is that the snow traction blows. Tire Rack's figures show that.

The tires you have:

The tires I'm getting:

Yours are more all around all-seasons while the ones I'm getting are more performance oriented all-seasons. Based on the reviews the GT's have great dry and wet traction with pretty good snow traction.

 

[Joey D]

Here's the photoshop I did that gave me an idea of what they will sort of look like.

 

[Philly]

The final price was really good too. They gave me each tire for $90 (listed $101) and each rim for $90 (listed $98). Plus a free installation kit with wheel locks, not that I expect anyone to steal these. They are also going to buy my used Yoko's back since I have no use for them. All in all it's like $750 for wheels and tires and it really could be a whole lot worse.

That's not too bad a price for what you're getting it seems. Can't wait to see how they look on the car.

 

[Joey D]

Got the rims and tires, so far I really like them and I think the rims look pretty awesome. They are a little beefier than I thought but that's probably not a bad thing right? Good thing is there is no rubbing or anything so I'm happy with that. I haven't put the tires through the paces yet because I'm letting them break in first.

Anyway, since this post would suck without pictures...

 

[Prosthetic]

Wow, they fit perfectly. Definatly looking sharp 👍

 

[Azuremen]

You can be aggressive during the break in period, just note you'll have a bit less grip till they are properly broken in.

With how flush those are on the car, I'd almost suggest getting a small drop. Would make for a nice, mean and functional stance.

 

[Keef]

Well I was going to get on Tire Rack and post up that Eibach suspension kit I had on the Del Sol, because it was a pretty fantastic high-quality bargain. But it's not available on there for your car Joey. And a new set of Koni dampers is almost $800, with a set of springs on the side. Holy crap!

EDIT: So, now you've got two set of wheels. What's going on the other set?...

 

[Joey D]

Thanks for the comments.

I agree with the drop, it's needed. However, I'm going to at least wait till the car is out of warranty, which should be by the end of the year (or by fall at least). I could do coilovers, which would be nice for the winter as I could raise the car back up to a decent height and slam it during the summer. But coilovers are expensive for the Cooper. I don't know, it's on the to do list though.

The other set of rims are sold, a buddy of mine is going to throw them on his Civic or something. He'll probably get sick of them though and give them back to me or whatever. Worse case scenario I'll just keep them and make a table out of them or something.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well...

Are they 4x100?

 

[Joey D]

Yup, 4 x 100.

 

[Duke]

Put snows on the other rims.

 

[Joey D]

I shouldn't need snow tires, based on everything I've read about the GT's is that they will do fine in the snow as long as it's not super deep. If it's super deep I'm not going anywhere anyways. If push comes to shove though I will pop for snow tires since I can't imagine these GT's will last me all that long with a 440 tread rating, and then I'll get summer/winter tires.

 

[Tornado]

I agree with the drop, it's needed. However, I'm going to at least wait till the car is out of warranty, which should be by the end of the year (or by fall at least).

Doesn't Mini offer stuff like that with warranty? Of course, if they do, it will probably be a bazillion dollars, but I thought that they did.

 

[Joey D]

Doesn't Mini offer stuff like that with warranty? Of course, if they do, it will probably be a bazillion dollars, but I thought that they did.

They do, and yes it's a bazillion dollars since I didn't order them with the car. Anything from MINI itself is way overpriced. Plus I have 30,000 miles on the car and the warranty is up at 36,000. There isn't that much time left. Plus I blew my car budget for a while on the wheels and tires.

 

[Azuremen]

440 Tread rating?

Are you serious?

I haven't bought tires with a tread rating over 200 in years... Those 440 should last you some 30,000 miles or so.

 

[Philly]

Looks good, Joey! 👍

+1 on it looking sweet with a small drop.

 

[Joey D]

Thanks Phil!

And Cody, just goes to show how much I know about tires, eh? 30,000 miles? That should be about a year and a half.