Junior Formula. Discussion of F2, F3, F4, Formula Renault, TRS, W-Series, Indy Lights, etcOpen Wheel
- Thread starter twitcher
- 624 comments
- 68,172 views
- 6,293
- Canada
First three rounds of that new Asian Winter Series were interesting. I always love the racing at Burhiram, it’s a great little circuit.
Ticktum definitely got his ego checked. I was doing some reading on reddit, and apparently he went into this series considering himself as a shoe-in for the series win, and that he was only there to collect the 10 points for his super license. After Veekay and Yifrae whooped him, he claimed that basically the universe was against him.
Furthermore, from a technical standpoint, in order for the series to award the full 10 points, according to FIA regs, it’s supposed to consist of at least 5 rounds on at least 3 different circuits, with at least 12 drivers. So far this series misses two of those conditions, but there’s been no indication from the FIA whether or not full points will be awarded. Some of the punters on Reddit hint that basically if Ticktum were to win, the plan would be for the FIA to award him the full 10 points as a way of thanking Redbull for putting a high profile driver in a fledgling series in a region that the FIA really wants to develope.
Ticktum definitely got his ego checked. I was doing some reading on reddit, and apparently he went into this series considering himself as a shoe-in for the series win, and that he was only there to collect the 10 points for his super license. After Veekay and Yifrae whooped him, he claimed that basically the universe was against him.
Furthermore, from a technical standpoint, in order for the series to award the full 10 points, according to FIA regs, it’s supposed to consist of at least 5 rounds on at least 3 different circuits, with at least 12 drivers. So far this series misses two of those conditions, but there’s been no indication from the FIA whether or not full points will be awarded. Some of the punters on Reddit hint that basically if Ticktum were to win, the plan would be for the FIA to award him the full 10 points as a way of thanking Redbull for putting a high profile driver in a fledgling series in a region that the FIA really wants to develope.
- 1,837
- Connecticut
- FutureF1
She’s baaaaack
W-Series can take their icy parking lot Ford Fiesta autocross contest and shove it
Amazing! Note how all the most prominent and successful female drivers aren't bothering with the W series. They know that it's a marketing gimmick. They've already shown they belong with the boys.
- 24,627
- Anoka, MN
- 6,293
- Canada
Isn’t that the whole point of be W-Series though...that there were/are “no successful female drivers, and therefor we need a special program for females”.
Doesn’t saying “successful female drivers wouldn’t bother with the W-Series” kind of contradict the reason for W-Series existence?
From an investment point of view, wouldn’t it make sense to put funding behind female drivers who have already shown a degree of success, rather than picking 50 who have had little to no success, and then have them do some parking lot skids in a Ford Fiesta in an attempt to find a female F1 driver?
- 24,627
- Anoka, MN
No, the point is that female drivers tend to only get to a certain point due to a lack of funding. The goal of the W-Series is to get more female driver's names out there and hopefully increase the chances for them to get to the top. It's meant to be an option, not a replacement.
Successful drivers usually don't move down the development ladder. This is an entry level series, chances are you won't recognize any of the names unless you follow grassroot level racing.
Funding a few drivers only helps a few drivers. This series will potentially help many more than that.
It's an entry level series, what kind of talent and success are you expecting to see?
- 6,293
- Canada
Lots, TONS, of race drivers only make it to F3, and fail to go further because of lack of funding. It’s not a female unique issue.
Roberto Meri did F2 after F1. Lucas Aure is doing Toyota Racing Series this year, after doing DTM.
Even though she withdrew to a lack of sponsorship (which makes no sense), Carman Jorda was on the list of 50...she was associated with F1, if she would have made the cut, it would be a definite “step down”
Jamie Chadwick won in British F3 last year, and next year she will compete against a grid of much lower caliber, so for her, W-Series is a backwards step.
As far as I know, this series will award 500k to the winner, nothing more, nothing less. So other than perhaps a little bit of exposure, only 1 driver will benefit from this program.
I expected to see drivers in karts and F3 cars, not FWD Ford Fiestas doing skids in a frozen parking lot. I was under the impression this was a serious attempt to find potential female single seater talent, not a game show.It's an entry level series, what kind of talent and success are you expecting to see?
I get that it’s entry level, but what does an entry level open wheel formula designed to help progress drivers to F1 have to do with driving a FWD Fiesta in a frozen parking lot? You realize that some of the drivers, who were evaluated on their ability to drive on ice...had never seen snow before...how is that a test that tells you anything, other than who can drive a FWD Fiesta in ice. Is this recruiting for F1, or WRC Rally Monte Carlo?
There’s also the bit about the Australian girl who finished 5th out of 50 in the ROc style knockout tournament, and she was still sent home, whilst drivers that were objectively slowe than her have been selected for the next round. Perhaps they were “more marketable” (although going off pics on her instagram, she’s quite “marketable”)
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
Anyway. Marcus Armstrong is leading at Manfeild Park. Race is live now under a red flag.
https://eu.motorsport.tv/motorsporttv/video/manfeild-race-3/18049
https://eu.motorsport.tv/motorsporttv/video/manfeild-race-3/18049
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
Ranghunathan was 15 seconds down on Ilott in 16th after 8 laps. With some laps being a SC. Impressive.
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
Great news! The average skill of the F2 field will increase!
http://www.fiaformula2.com/News-Room/News/2019/06_June/Round-5-post-Feature-Race-penalties/
http://www.fiaformula2.com/News-Room/News/2019/06_June/Round-5-post-Feature-Race-penalties/
- 3,600
- Middelburg
Nyck knows how to handle with that
- 11,639
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
I like how easy it is to tell which 3 drivers got penalties even before reading their names.
- 24,627
- Anoka, MN
Pato O'Ward will be replacing Raghunathan for Austria.
https://racer.com/2019/06/25/oward-going-into-f2-debut-with-eyes-wide-open/
It will be interesting to see how he does.
https://racer.com/2019/06/25/oward-going-into-f2-debut-with-eyes-wide-open/
It will be interesting to see how he does.
- 26,910
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
If we'll be using this thread to discuss the W Series, then let me just make mention of it here. The W Series recently concluded its maiden season with Jamie Chadwick being the series' first Champion. She was also the first multiple race winner of the series. I thought it was great to round up talented female racers from around the world to compete in this series. Sadly for us Americans, Shea Holbrook and Sabre Cook didn't fare too well in the 2019 championship.
Overall, I think the W Series is a great series. Maybe this will have some more up-and-coming female racing talent to take on top-level motorsports. I'm probably sure what would help here is if the W Series somehow produces a talented enough racer to take on some of the top-level FIA motorsports... including Formula 1. As a motorsports enthusiast, I hope the W Series lasts for a good long while.
As I type all of this up, NBCSN is currently showing the highlights of the 2019 W Series finale at Brands Hatch. So, I may have spoiled talking about the champ...
Overall, I think the W Series is a great series. Maybe this will have some more up-and-coming female racing talent to take on top-level motorsports. I'm probably sure what would help here is if the W Series somehow produces a talented enough racer to take on some of the top-level FIA motorsports... including Formula 1. As a motorsports enthusiast, I hope the W Series lasts for a good long while.
As I type all of this up, NBCSN is currently showing the highlights of the 2019 W Series finale at Brands Hatch. So, I may have spoiled talking about the champ...
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
In my opinion, the task for W Series has half been proven so far... Series 1 produced 6 good races with a strong field of contenders, but what it ultimately needs to do is get those drivers higher up the motorsport ladder. It could be argued that has happened for Chadwick with her Aston Martin and Williams roles, but what I'm really concerned about is seeing the same names on the season 2 grid. There are a lot of positives to W Series with very few drawbacks, which may stop a lot of the drivers from taking the riskier option further up the ladder.
- 26,910
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
You know, Pezzarinho17, I would think something like the W Series would raise the profile of such drivers. Maybe not a leaps-and-bounds or night-and-day enhancement, but it helps. Maybe some of the drivers in the W Series could be given chances to race in higher-level series. I do think the W Series can grow and evolve while still mostly in its infant stage.
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
It has certainly done that, since most of the grid were unknown prior to W Series taking place. But it just can't exist to raise those profiles to W series and then plateau. Since my previous post, Jamie Chadwick has confirmed she is looking into Formula 3 next season but it is a matter of budget. She doesn't want to just join a team at the back of the field or she risks damaging her profile instead. She needs a budget of €1M, has just earnt €500k towards that, and has both Williams and Aston Martin supporting her. So why is her career seemingly circling back towards defending her title in 2020? This is the potential problem W Series could be facing in years to come if no drivers choose to move on, given the higher risks for lesser rewards on offer elsewhere...
- 1,684
- Houston, TX
- The_TetsuKobura
Kyle Kirkwood is now within six points of Rasmus Lindh for the Indy Pro 2000 Championship. 4 races to go and he is on a VERY hot streak. Definitely one to watch coming into the penultimate rounds.
- 6,293
- Canada
Regarding W-Series, I just got caught up on the Brands Hatch race this past weekend. Congrats to Chadwick.
My takeaways from the first season:
- commentary was aweful. Coultard and McNish were alright (I’ve personally never liked Coultard’s commentary, ever), but the main woman doing the play by play was turrible. Add in to the fact that she’s basically the chairwoman of the Jamie Chadwick fanclub, it was beyond cringe all season long.
- 1 race at each track was not enough. There should be 2 races, and personally I’d like to see a reverse grid race, that way we get to see how some of the front runners deal with progressing through traffic (eg, this is something Stroll was really not good at in his F3 days).
- not sure if I’m purpose or coincidence, but there were no W-Series races on circuits that F3 races on. Hockenheim would have been perfect to make comparisons, but since there were no similar tracks, we can’t compare W-Series lap times to F3 lap times. Hmmm.
- I’ve always been of the opinion that women can drive just as fast as men. This series showed that an all female series could be possible, but does nothing to put women in an equal fight against a male driver. The fact that people are even talking about F1 in relation to Chadwick, based on her W-Series results is, in my opinion, shocking and beyond premature. Let’s see her in F3, then F2...then let’s talk. I am happy to see that one other driver, forget the name, is getting a drive in IMSA next year with Catharine Legge, and Marta Garcia is reportedly doing Toyota Racing Series in New Zealand this winter to prepare for F3 next year. Good for her.
- I worry for the future of the series. Once the hoopla of “woman race car driver” wears off, this series will quickly lose its appeal. Hopefully, we’ll see more women in the major categories and won’t need W-Series. My fear is that we won’t actually see female participation increase naturally, and the inability of W-Series champions and vets to land seats in heir tier or pro/am categories of shoe horning women into other racing series. We’ll see I guess.
- the whole “swap cars and crews at every event” socialist racing is not for me. I see the merits for junior formula and development series, but as soon as you’re talking about kids 15 and older, I want none of that share share crap.
- last point, something that will hopefully change next year....all season long, I really got the feeling that this whole series as a scheme whipped together to give Jamie Chadwick more exposure. They might as well have called this the Jamie Chadwick series, as Jamie Chadwick was pretty much all they talked about. Jamie Chadwick.
My takeaways from the first season:
- commentary was aweful. Coultard and McNish were alright (I’ve personally never liked Coultard’s commentary, ever), but the main woman doing the play by play was turrible. Add in to the fact that she’s basically the chairwoman of the Jamie Chadwick fanclub, it was beyond cringe all season long.
- 1 race at each track was not enough. There should be 2 races, and personally I’d like to see a reverse grid race, that way we get to see how some of the front runners deal with progressing through traffic (eg, this is something Stroll was really not good at in his F3 days).
- not sure if I’m purpose or coincidence, but there were no W-Series races on circuits that F3 races on. Hockenheim would have been perfect to make comparisons, but since there were no similar tracks, we can’t compare W-Series lap times to F3 lap times. Hmmm.
- I’ve always been of the opinion that women can drive just as fast as men. This series showed that an all female series could be possible, but does nothing to put women in an equal fight against a male driver. The fact that people are even talking about F1 in relation to Chadwick, based on her W-Series results is, in my opinion, shocking and beyond premature. Let’s see her in F3, then F2...then let’s talk. I am happy to see that one other driver, forget the name, is getting a drive in IMSA next year with Catharine Legge, and Marta Garcia is reportedly doing Toyota Racing Series in New Zealand this winter to prepare for F3 next year. Good for her.
- I worry for the future of the series. Once the hoopla of “woman race car driver” wears off, this series will quickly lose its appeal. Hopefully, we’ll see more women in the major categories and won’t need W-Series. My fear is that we won’t actually see female participation increase naturally, and the inability of W-Series champions and vets to land seats in heir tier or pro/am categories of shoe horning women into other racing series. We’ll see I guess.
- the whole “swap cars and crews at every event” socialist racing is not for me. I see the merits for junior formula and development series, but as soon as you’re talking about kids 15 and older, I want none of that share share crap.
- last point, something that will hopefully change next year....all season long, I really got the feeling that this whole series as a scheme whipped together to give Jamie Chadwick more exposure. They might as well have called this the Jamie Chadwick series, as Jamie Chadwick was pretty much all they talked about. Jamie Chadwick.
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
Understandable why they are doing this, but yes I got really frustrated in race 1 with her using the word "historic" in every sentance. Historic grid of historic women in historic cars (wtf, really?) which lead to a historic race with a historic SHUT UP!!! She got better over the season, if looking for a positive...
Did you see the reverse grid race at Assen? Given how much we are told spec formula cars cannot race, you presume from all the "dull" races (where the fastest car on Saturday is still the fastest car on Sunday) that the order wouldn't change much. Instead it was great. F2 and F3 already use something similar, and agreed it is an interesting scenario.
The series was a support for DTM, so they just went along to those circuits.
I think a lot of people share this view, but it is good they are doing something to encourage girls into the sport - that is the real problem for me that needs addressing. See above regarding Chadwick - she is considering F3 next season but seems likely to stay in W Series, which isn't a good sign. Garcia I think is used the Toyota series to prepare for the season 2 of W Series again.
I almost feel opposite to this, but still as a problem rather than a solution. Women will be "stuck" targeting W Series but then never getting away from it. If so, it would operate as the top limit for women rather than a stepping stone to bigger things. They might need to step back some of the prize offering and incentives...
This is more about the fact W Series is looking to promote women in every aspect of the sport, so it will potentially give women mechanics the chance to work with different drivers too. The old Palmer F2 series did the same thing, it's just a way of making sure the cars and machinery are all completely fair. I wasn't sure about the "if you retire, you stay in the same car" rule. Surely this is the meaning of the rule, so if you have a mechanical issue one race, you don't run the risk of ruining the next one too - 33% of a 6 race calendar!
don't agree with that necessarily, she was an obvious a focal point from early on having won 2 of the first 3 races and being 2nd in the other. From then on, the focus is the Championship fight like any other series. Plus being British, they are obviously going to focus in on her on Channel 4's coverage - it likely wasn't as much at all for other countries coverage.
