Junior Formula. Discussion of F2, F3, F4, Formula Renault, TRS, W-Series, Indy Lights, etcOpen Wheel

[05XR8]

Pretty tough racing in GP3.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Nice to see Ferrucci coming on form. It would be easy to be cynical about it and say that he got the Haas role because of his nationality, especially since he didn't have much of a pedigree to begin with.

Also, we need an Alex Jakes drinking game. Take one sip if he mentions a driver's nationality. Take two if he's doing it because he doesn't have anything else to say about a driver (because he doesn't know anything else about that driver). Finish your drink if he mentions the British anthem (warning: if a British driver wins, he will do this at least six times). He's great in GP2 - especially when he's yelling at the drivers - but he really needs help in GP3.

 

[05XR8]

That was a good GP2 race.

 

[jontikis]

Fantastic racing in GP2.
Giovinazzi won the race starting from P21!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They got lucky with the safety car. From the looks of things, it was deployed at the last minute and ended up picking up the wrong driver. If the safety car had picked up Marciello as it should have, racing would have resumed sooner and Marciello, Malja and Giovinazzi would have been sitting ducks.

Of course, I still think Giovinazzi should be in Formula One. Gasly might be great at controlling the pace from the very front, but give me the guy who can win it from the back any time.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Bone-headed move by Fukuzumi to take Leclerc out like that. It would be bad enough to wipe out another driver that way, but when that guy is your team-mateand the championship leader, it's pretty ugly.

And I was wondering what happened to Force India's "One in a Billion" program; it looks like they chose pretty well, because Arjun Maini has been doing pretty well for a rookie who joined mid-season.

 

[Milouse]

That GP2 Safety Car error is a joke, it gave Marciello, Malja and Giovinazzi a free pit stop while Gasly had the control of the race to victory.
And as it wasn't enough, Gasly got Gelael, who was supposed to be last, in front of him and fighting him on the restart for 4th position. Gelael received a black flag for this.
Gasly was furious after the race.

Still, an other good performance for Giovinazzi.

 

[05XR8]

Jeez, Louise.

 

[mustafur]

Gasly got completely screwed over in that race, if that happened in F1 that would of had many sacked on the spot.

In other news Kyvat is soo gone from Torro Rosso it isn't funny, him dropping out in Q1 whilst Gasly was about to cement a massive lead in the GP2 championship is a nail in the coffin, even though Gasly did get screwed out of that win.

 

[Milouse]

That GP2 Race 2 start could have ended very badly between Evans and Ghiotto who "crossed" their wheels then had contact. Physic laws turned in their favor, this time.

Edit:
Well, they almost crossed wheels, that what saved them:

 

[prisonermonkeys]

In other news Kyvat is soo gone from Torro Rosso it isn't funny, him dropping out in Q1 whilst Gasly was about to cement a massive lead in the GP2 championship is a nail in the coffin

That's pretty harsh, given that Kvyat has a year-old power unit that hasn't been developed on the most power-dependent circuit on the calendar.

 

[mustafur]

That's pretty harsh, given that Kvyat has a year-old power unit that hasn't been developed on the most power-dependent circuit on the calendar.

Redbull is harsh, not to mention Sainz got into the next session.

If Gasly wasn't doing so well right now then he would likely still have a chance, but not in this case.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You mean Sainz only just got into the next session, right?

 

[mustafur]

You mean Sainz only just got into the next session, right?

In the same session under the same conditions in Q1 Sainz was 13th Kyvat was 17th.

Combined with how he has performed already compared to Sainz it's a continuing trend, Kyvat is in his 3rd Season in F1 even though half of that was in a Redbull I don't see any justification why he should stay longer then anyone else in that situation.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

In the same session under the same conditions in Q1 Sainz was 13th Kyvat was 17th.

Don't look at their positions. Look at their times. They were actually two of the closest-matched team-mates in qualifying.

 

[mustafur]

Don't look at their positions. Look at their times. They were actually two of the closest-matched team-mates in qualifying.

Teams that had closer team mates in that session:
Sauber
Ferrari
Redbull
Mclaren
Haas

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Teams that had closer team mates in that session:

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to prove here. First, you claimed that Kvyat was on his way out because of another driver's performance in a totally different series. Then you tried to prove it based on qualifying position. Then you tried to prove it based on lap time.

And just so we're clear, you are also of the belief that the best person to replace Kvyat is a man who didn't actually win anything for over two years and has a documented history of being unable to pass anyone in a straight fight - and if we're using performance relative to a team-mate as a guide, a man whose only victories have come from controlling the pace from the front while his team-mate has won two races from the back row.

It's pretty obvious that you want Kvyat out and that you'll jump through any hoop to prove it.

 

[mustafur]

Nope you did, I said his out performance combined with Gasly's good performances are why, then you brought up excuses I disputed.

Keep in mind your the one who claims Redbulls driver program is the end all to be all and if they get dropped it's evidence they are not F1 worthy, Gasly has overtaken plenty and is 1st in the highest feeder series to F1, since when is Winning races mean a lack a driver skill if they don't do it in a certain way, a racers goal is to win races and your basically changing the goal posts to raise a point.

I would argue you have an irrational judgement on Gasly if anything and with no coincidence any subject raised with him you turn it to a negative, just like Hamilton and Palmer.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I would argue you have an irrational judgement on Gasly

All I said was that he's not ready, because it takes more than race results to demonstrate preparedness. The entire point of the feeder series is to develop drivers' racecraft, and Gasly isn't fully developed. He might be leading the championship, but he hasn't run away with it the way Vandoorne did, and there have been plenty of races where he hasn't been able to make up places. Don't you think that the ability to race wheel-to-wheel is an important skill for drivers to have?

since when is Winning races mean a lack a driver skill if they don't do it in a certain way, a racers goal is to win races and your basically changing the goal posts to raise a point.

I'm not changing the goal posts. I just think that there are certain skills that a driver needs, and I don't think that Gasly has the full complement yet.

 

[Milouse]

The entire point of the feeder series is to develop drivers' racecraft, and Gasly isn't fully developed.

I was disappointed by Gasly last year, but the last six or seven race week-ends showed he can handle the big pressure he has from Red Bull (a mandatory championship victory to consider an access to a Toro Rosso seat), cope with bad luck, overtake (a lot), defend when necessary (sometimes in a Verstappen way i strongly dislike).

The current trend for TR 2017 seat is Kyat Down and Gasly Up, without a doubt.

 

[daan]

I don't know why we're discussing Kvyat in the junior formula thread. He's not back there yet.

 

[jake2013guy]

I don't know why we're discussing Kvyat in the junior formula thread. He's not back there yet.

Haha. Yet.

 

[CodeRedR51]

http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/09/26/asian-wrap-yama****a-takes-japan-f3-crown/

Sounds like Jann did all he could with finishing 2nd in all 3 races, but unfortunately his main rival in the championship swept all 3 wins resulting in Jann losing the championship by a mere 3 points. Bummer.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'd say Yama****a needed the title more than Mardenborough. Being runner-up three years in a row would have been soul crushing for a young driver.

Also, don't Nissan have any actual young talents to put into F3(?), rather than sticking in established pros like Sasaki, Mardenborough and Chiyo, all of whom are closer in age to 30 than they are to 20.

 

[mustafur]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last open wheel season Mardenborough does.

Unless he is doing Super GT then Nissan have outlived their purpose for him as they don't exactly have the oppurtunitys of higher racing as F1 is out of the question now.

 

[mustafur]

Has anyone heard of Lando Norris, this guy has done something incredible this season and is in the brisk of winning 3 championships in 1 season.

He won the Toyota Racing series early in the year, and then has the Renault 2.0 Eurocup in the bag with a round left and is leading the NEC Renualt championship too with a comfortable advantage going into the last round which is this weekend, all whilst being a rookie.

He also did some races in British formula 3 and won 4 Races which is incredible for someone that has basically gone up 2 tiers in one season.

This guy will be in F1 by 2018 at this rate and he is only 16.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's impressive, but they're not major series. He'd probably have to do a season in Formula 3, GP3 or GP2 first.

 

[mustafur]

It's impressive, but they're not major series. He'd probably have to do a season in Formula 3, GP3 or GP2 first.

Well yes, he is only 16 and won't be 18 until november next year so i suspect he will be doing Euro F3 or GP3 next year(if he wins the NEC Renault championship he will have 32 of the 40 Required Super License points for F1).

But if you watch on Foxtel a few hours ago they had British F3 highlights on and he was the standout driver(if you have the record function I would highly suggest going back and recording it).

At Silverstone in one race he went from 17th to 2nd which was insane, obviously British F3 isn't as good as it was 6 years ago but if he is driving F3 next year he will have pace.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Some stunning racing in GP2 (again), with Giovinazzi seizing the points lead while Gasly got out-dragged at the start and finished outside the points.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Wonderful move by Rowland to push a championship contender off the road when bith championship leaders are locked in combat.