Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[Imari]

Well why not ? If people want to play with older cars that have not been remade with new grafics, I would prefer to race with the cars that I like and am used to drive. If those cars start to become boring you can always buy a new one and if it is needed with better grafics.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I understand that English probably isn't your first language, so perhaps you could try explaining it another way?

I'm not saying that SONY should not make effort's to maximize visual appearance, but not buying the game because of the fact that not the entire catalog is remade is a little over the top.

Why is that over the top? One of the main marketing points for Gran Turismo has always been graphics, it's not strange to think that people would buy the game solely because of that.

Look at the photomode enthusiasts, there's a game mode that is purely dependent on the graphical quality.

There's also the "immersion" enthusiasts, those who can't afford to get on the track in real life and so want the best experience possible. Having poor quality graphics breaks that immersion, it no longer feels like you're on a track in real life when you have blocky PS1 cars driving past you.

If there would be nothing new in it or not a upgrade regarding to gameplay that I could understand. But do you need to own every GT that is released ?

I think one of the best things they could do would be release a "Greatest Hits" package on PS4, containing GT1 through GT4. I imagine it would probably sell enough to be worth the conversion time in it's own right, and it would remove the necessity of supporting these older cars in the newest release because "otherwise I can't drive them".

It's just not necessary to have a thousand or more cars to have a good game, and it makes so many other aspects of good game design so much harder. Think of the workload to make sure the specs on all those cars are correct, to test that they drive correctly and that all the tuning works right. The necessity to test all of them against the PP system to make sure that no cars are massively overpowered. The need to provide content and races for all those cars.

 

[Speedster911]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I understand that English probably isn't your first language, so perhaps you could try explaining it another way?



Why is that over the top? One of the main marketing points for Gran Turismo has always been graphics, it's not strange to think that people would buy the game solely because of that.

Look at the photomode enthusiasts, there's a game mode that is purely dependent on the graphical quality.

There's also the "immersion" enthusiasts, those who can't afford to get on the track in real life and so want the best experience possible. Having poor quality graphics breaks that immersion, it no longer feels like you're on a track in real life when you have blocky PS1 cars driving past you.



I think one of the best things they could do would be release a "Greatest Hits" package on PS4, containing GT1 through GT4. I imagine it would probably sell enough to be worth the conversion time in it's own right, and it would remove the necessity of supporting these older cars in the newest release because "otherwise I can't drive them".

It's just not necessary to have a thousand or more cars to have a good game, and it makes so many other aspects of good game design so much harder. Think of the workload to make sure the specs on all those cars are correct, to test that they drive correctly and that all the tuning works right. The necessity to test all of them against the PP system to make sure that no cars are massively overpowered. The need to provide content and races for all those cars.

This. +1000 👍

I loved the cars in GT3 and 4. I think even that was a very high car count. The smart approach would be to keep the count limited and give equal attention to ALL cars. If not.. why even have them in the game? A game that's touted as the "real driving simulator".

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Dudes, look. You either haven't read or have forgotten my little tale. Johnny should remember because this was directed at him. But for everyone's edification, here it is again.

I don't suppose you've noticed that Griffith500's post above says pretty much the same thing. I've raced in Shift and GRID demos, and this is pretty much how they act in both games, which is why I gave GA the benefit of the doubt, seeing as it was framed as a more serious sim-style racer.

So, maybe PC sims bore you guys to tears with their polite cruise missiles, and P CARS is completely off your radar because the YT vids I've seen of the bots make them look about aggressive as those in GT6. If you guys prefer high adrenaline extreeme racing with lots of fender banging and pit maneuvers as in Forza, GRID and Shift, that's fine. But make a thread about how every game should be like this and see how popular it is.

As Griffith says, and as I've said quite plainly, it seems to me that most gamers aren't going to like bots that would get banned if they were people in an online room. I may be wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.

While we are edifying, here you go:
Other than maybe soap box derby, I don't know of any racing thats not the high adrenaline extreme type.
It is the very nature of Motorsport.
That makes your point regaurding the AI, on the soft side, realistically.
Although, certainly not the worst AI scenario that could be implemented.
You are taking unsubstantiated liberty with the "most gamers" claim, but it is possible.
Since you seem to be a proponent of more sanctioned type racing being included in GT, it appears contradictory,
since some beating and banging goes with that territory.
Lastly, "online" and "offline" expectations, are not necessarily the same.

 

[SebastianL]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I understand that English probably isn't your first language, so perhaps you could try explaining it another way?



Why is that over the top? One of the main marketing points for Gran Turismo has always been graphics, it's not strange to think that people would buy the game solely because of that.

Look at the photomode enthusiasts, there's a game mode that is purely dependent on the graphical quality.

There's also the "immersion" enthusiasts, those who can't afford to get on the track in real life and so want the best experience possible. Having poor quality graphics breaks that immersion, it no longer feels like you're on a track in real life when you have blocky PS1 cars driving past you.



I think one of the best things they could do would be release a "Greatest Hits" package on PS4, containing GT1 through GT4. I imagine it would probably sell enough to be worth the conversion time in it's own right, and it would remove the necessity of supporting these older cars in the newest release because "otherwise I can't drive them".

It's just not necessary to have a thousand or more cars to have a good game, and it makes so many other aspects of good game design so much harder. Think of the workload to make sure the specs on all those cars are correct, to test that they drive correctly and that all the tuning works right. The necessity to test all of them against the PP system to make sure that no cars are massively overpowered. The need to provide content and races for all those cars.

LOL, well maybe I'm a little to technical in what I write.

What I wrote is my personal opinion, I'm not saying other people should not buy games only because they look good, but for me it's more about getting the most pleasure out of racing and that with the cars I like and am used to driving.

Of course if SONY want's to upgrade the grafics of those older cars I would also be happy but I prefer to drive with them rather than having to buy other cars that look better but are nothing compared with them under the hood !

So deleting cars out of GT is no option at all in my opinion !

 

[Tenacious D]

You are taking unsubstantiated liberty with the "most gamers" claim, but it is possible.

I think my position is more sound. I've seen quite a heated divide between the proponents of Forza-style bots and GT-style bots. In fact, I've begun to see a few articles in which the author slagged Forza for its reckless bots. And in my experience, GRID is worse in that regard.

Since you seem to be a proponent of more sanctioned type racing being included in GT, it appears contradictory, since some beating and banging goes with that territory.

I've never said otherwise, unless you think my pet phrase "polite cruise missiles" is a term of endearment.

It's a matter of scale and proportion. You may prefer a game in which every race, your car sustains fairly serious damage with lots of yellow and orange boxes on your display. That's not my ideal racing game.

It's going to be very interesting to see the board's reaction to P CARS if it has these polite cruise missiles that are in every video preview I've seen.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I think my position is more sound. I've seen quite a heated divide between the proponents of Forza-style bots and GT-style bots. In fact, I've begun to see a few articles in which the author slagged Forza for its reckless bots. And in my experience, GRID is worse in that regard.

I can't say about Forza5, haven't played it. I don't recall it being a factor in 4.
I have been playing GAS off and on for a couple weeks.
My experience so far has been the AI in GAS, do what drivers do in "real" racing.
Block you, lean on you, take away your line, brake check you, even hit you sometimes.
Anything they can do to pass you, or prevent you from passing them.
Also as in most real racing, it is more chaotic back in the pack with the also rans.
Once you get with the top 3-5 cars its usually a little more Gentlemanly.
The AI is aggressive, but I wouldn't say excessively so.

It's a matter of scale and proportion. You may prefer a game in which every race, your car sustains fairly serious damage with lots of yellow and orange boxes on your display. That's not my ideal racing game.

You say that as if your driving has nothing to do with the outcome.
It definitely does.
The only time that scenario comes into play is occasionally on a unfamiliar track and/or you have a very inferior car with little or no upgrades or tuning. That tends to create a little more risk taking to move up.
As others here have commented, you have to learn to pick the right opportunities, at the right time and execute accordingly.
The most sensitive in that regaurd are the open wheel cars.
Besides you can use the rewind for the learning curve. Once on the other side, and you have better cars and tuning, you won't need it much.
I wouldn't say its a great game. Some aspects I don't care for, but it is more advanced in the AI category.

It's going to be very interesting to see the board's reaction to P CARS if it has these polite cruise missiles that are in every video preview I've seen.

Yeah, we will have to wait and see on that one.

 

[johnmaxmanoy]

As long as Standards are clean like RUF, I'll buy GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think my position is more sound. I've seen quite a heated divide between the proponents of Forza-style bots and GT-style bots. In fact, I've begun to see a few articles in which the author slagged Forza for its reckless bots. And in my experience, GRID is worse in that regard.

Have any links to this heated divide and the articles in which the authors "slagged" Forza for it's reckless bots? I'm sure some of us would like to see them.

If you have some links to articles where the authors slagged the GAS AI that would be a nice touch too.

 

[Tenacious D]

Forza Motorsport 5 Review
The great driving and great looks of Forza 5 get buried by bad menus, frustrating AI, and a disappointing number of "opportunities" to spend additional money.
In the game's career mode you'll face off against AI-controlled drivers, as before. You can set the difficulty rating of these opponents, but this time around they're based on the other Forza players on your friends list. The game collects data as you and your friends drive to build an AI profile, which the game clumsily calls a "drivatar." Thus, your AI profile is eventually supposed to mimic the way you take corners, how aggressive you are on the track, and so on.
In practice, this has led to a game in which a large number of the racers on the track are immediately trying to run me off the road. Or maybe they're just leaving the track on their own, weaving around like a bunch of drunks. Even the "car guys" on my friends list--people I certainly would expect to maintain a certain level of decorum in any sort of racing game--bang around the track with some amount of recklessness.
If the goal was to make the single-player career feel more lifelike, then it's mission accomplished, for sure. But instead of making it look or feel like a real-life race would, it makes it feel like a public lobby multiplayer race, where half the field, a bunch of goons with nothing to lose, bangs into the first turn at full speed and hopes for the best. I can't imagine that's what the developer was going for. Either way, this style of AI casts a dark shadow over the entire career mode. Once you know what to expect, it's manageable, and it certainly makes the game more challenging than it has been in the past, but I felt like I was being forced to drive aggressively and do way more rubbin' and way less racin' to succeed.

'Forza 5' Drivatars can kind of be jerks
XMNR: Forza Motorsport 5 for the Xbox One introduced the concept of Drivatars, AI drivers based on the tendencies and actions of actual players saved to the Microsoft's Azure Cloud Servers. However, sometimes these Drivatars tend to be jerks as a video captured Tuesday shows.

Forza Motorsport 5 Xbox One Review
One of the most highly marketed parts of the game is the much lauded ‘Drivatar’ technology. In simple terms, it’s a type of AI that learns from what real players do. So, in the case of Forza 5, the AI sees how aggressive or polite the game’s community races, and builds and individual “Drivatar” based on their driving style – which is then used to make the bots in the game’s single player modes feel more lifelike.

Anyone that’s experienced the online portion of most racing games (that are not called iRacing), will already know this is a suspect idea, as a rather large percentage of people instantly turn into maddening pillocks when behind the virtual wheel of a virtual car whilst on the internet. The only difference with Drivatars is you won’t get called a “🤬,” “🤬” or “🤬” come the end of a race, as Turn 10 have not modeled that lovely facet of the Xbox Live experience yet. Maybe they will add that in for Forza 6 to complete the illusion.

Due to the lawlessness of the Drivatars, Forza 5 can sometimes feel (no) longer like the simulation racer it should be. There’s so much chaos on track, I, in turn, had to play more aggressively to combat it, so the game almost veers into feeling like an arcade racer at times. They should have just gone and got Eat ‘Em Up!!! on the soundtrack and fully embrace the madness. Of course, the leisurely “out for a sunday drive” sedate AI seen in other racers is not the correct answer, but neither is this. It is two opposite ends of an extreme spectrum, and neither is the correct answer.

* * * * * * *

By the way, I did mention that I hadn't read any bad review of GA, and this is what tipped me a few degrees in favor of buying it. Little did I know I was getting Codies version of Forza 5. And Johnny, if you hadn't read anyone complaining about the bots in Forza 5, you simply haven't looked. Google will show you the way. I'm going to bed.

 

[Johnnypenso]

By the way, I did mention that I hadn't read any bad review of GA, and this is what tipped me a few degrees in favor of buying it. Little did I know I was getting Codies version of Forza 5. And Johnny, if you hadn't read anyone complaining about the bots in Forza 5, you simply haven't looked. Google will show you the way. I'm going to bed.

Links would have sufficed. And no I haven't looked, why would I? I'm not making any claims about Forza AI you are, thus I asked for the links.

 

[Speedster911]

It is simply amazing how we nitpick at games today... though some of them are quite genuine I must say.

Just thought I'd drop in a random note:

When you see poor folks on the sidewalk, not having a roof over their heads.. they don't even know if they're going to have another meal just to survive.. or the people you read or hear about on the news.. losing their lives and homes as a result of war...

It humbles the heck outta me and makes me every so grateful for what I have.

^^ One of these blessings is being able to own a console and play some really great games. Gosh.. some people would love to trade places with us just to experience gaming I'm sure.

Pardon the off-topic, but I think we should all be very grateful for being able to experience the best in what gaming has to offer, despite what's happening in the world. What's happening to humanity in general.

Okay then.. rant over. Hope this message is well received.

 

[Tenacious D]

Links would have sufficed.

Only the best for my biggest fan.

And since we're a bit OT for a few posts, I'd like to take this opportunity to wish Kaz a happy birthday. What's left of it in Japan anyhow.

 

[johnmaxmanoy]

Oh and if the Supra RZ is still stupid in GT7 I'm out.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Oh and if the Supra RZ is still stupid in GT7 I'm out.

Whats funny though I almost left the GT series when I heard the supra SZ-R, RZ was a standard and not even touched up standard. The only thing that made me stay was the track count.

 

[UKMikey]

To be fair the Forza 5 reviews are very old. Its bots got better for me over time as the players whose driving style they were based on became more familiar with the track.

 

[SebastianL]

Well I don't get why the big fuss is made about a supra ??? I rarely or never drive with it.

 

[Griffith500]

Well I don't get why the big fuss is made about a supra ??? I rarely or never drive with it.

Heathen! Next you'll be saying you don't think the E30 M3 is the shining God of petrol head heaven, either!

As if you're allowed your own opinions and tastes! Ha!

Of course, I jest.

 

[Speedster911]

Well I don't get why the big fuss is made about a supra ??? I rarely or never drive with it.

The Supra is a Japanese legend. Any pure petrolhead would never pass up the opportunity to own one, nicely modded at that!

 

[SebastianL]

Yeah, well I prefer European and American models to tune or for super speed racing the Toyota GT1. In my eyes the Supra is to round and I would even say ugly.

But I can understand that some people like it, everybody has it's own style off course.

 

[Speedster911]

It only looks better with body kits. I myself am not a big fan of the stock look.

 

[TokoTurismo]

It only looks better with body kits. I myself am not a big fan of the stock look.

Hell yeah it does look better with bodykits.

 

[Fat Tyre]

Your best bet for having a Premium Supra is switching to Forza 5. You can also check out the interior and design your own livery.

 

[glassjaw]

Well I don't get why the big fuss is made about a supra ??? I rarely or never drive with it.

People do tend to obsess over the MkIV Supra more than is probably necessary...however I think it should be premium simply because it used to be such a huge part of the GT franchise, going back to the very first game. It was one of those flagship cars you just had to have, along with the Skyline GT-R, NSX, Viper GTS, and Mitsubishi GTO. And for people who were in their childhood when GT1 came out, most of us were introduced to the Supra through that game. So there's a lot of history and nostalgia there, and I feel like it's one of a handful of cars that are ultra important to the brand.

 

[Imari]

Well I don't get why the big fuss is made about a supra ??? I rarely or never drive with it.

You should.

The Supra is one of the top cars from a golden age of Japanese sports cars in the late 90's and early 00's. Along with the RX7, the Skyline, the Evo and the GTO, the WRX, and the NSX and S2000 (and I'm probably forgetting something).

You should drive all these cars, because they're all great and they all have their own character. If you
love cars, you will probably enjoy them all, although of course you will have your favourites.

 

[johnmaxmanoy]

Go play Forza Right Now!!! ...if you want a good Supra.

 

[Tornado]

The Supra was the ultimate culmination of the "🤬 it, we don't actually have to make any money on this thing" period of extreme overengineering that dominated the Japanese automotive industry in the early 1990s. And, more importantly, it was the only one (300ZX excepting) that was actually somewhat attainable (more expensive than a Corvette or not) and highly regarded around the world. The rest of them were either such failures outside of Japan that they might as well not have been offered (RX-7), only offered as a niche vehicle or not offered at all (WRX, Evo, Skyline) or were pretty much full-on exotics (NSX).

 

[sparkytooth]

I was actually surprised that PD didn't nab one in the 90's-00's JDM Premium modelling frenzy that was GT5, when we got all three of the R30 Series GT-Rs, the NSX, two FDs and one FC RX-7, as well as the S13 and S15 Silvias and even the Z32 through Z34 series Z cars. We even have a Mk III Supra as a premium car but no Mk IV.

 

[Speedster911]

Hell yeah it does look better with bodykits.

Oh gosh, those sweet body kits!

I don't think the first one is present in FM4 or 5.. It's high time they upgraded their body kit selections, including wide body kit packages, and tire spacers.

Man.. thanks for posting this.. can't stop gawking at it, especially that first one.

People do tend to obsess over the MkIV Supra more than is probably necessary...however I think it should be premium simply because it used to be such a huge part of the GT franchise, going back to the very first game. It was one of those flagship cars you just had to have, along with the Skyline GT-R, NSX, Viper GTS, and Mitsubishi GTO. And for people who were in their childhood when GT1 came out, most of us were introduced to the Supra through that game. So there's a lot of history and nostalgia there, and I feel like it's one of a handful of cars that are ultra important to the brand.

Spot on! 👍

 

[TokoTurismo]

Oh gosh, those sweet body kits!

I don't think the first one is present in FM4 or 5.. It's high time they upgraded their body kit selections, including wide body kit packages, and tire spacers.

Man.. thanks for posting this.. can't stop gawking at it, especially that first one.

No prob man, I'm very thankful to have posted those pics. This was a car I adored in TXRD2. Toyota Supra FTW!!

 

[DingoDile]

Just watched this video and now I'm in full depression... How can PD do this to us? How can a studio that made those outstanding games for PS1 & PS2 (just look at GT3, a 60fps game with those graphics in 2001!!!), put these ugly standard cars & tracks in a PS3 game and maybe PS4 in future? I missed that PD...