I can understand people being upset about always online and then the servers going offline but MTX? I have done the license tests, missions and the cafe stuff and I have over a hundred cars but only used maybe 10 of them so far and only tuned and costomized three. This is not a sprint race, have some patience if it is like GT Sport there will be years of updates, tracks and cars. It is not pay to win because you can't have all cars at once...
Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage
- Thread starter Famine
- 2,031 comments
- 160,678 views
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
- 4,038
- United States
Why do we get 30 hours of downtime and no free credits? Or free cars?
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
Because the developers do not care about you.
Anyway, get ready to be called entitled or similar any minute now.
- 496
- Death Chicane
- MrNukkii
- Mister Nooki
Nobody wants to have ALL of the cars from the get-go. Players want a grind that does not suck. Polyphony nerfed credit incomes for a lot of races, forcing players to either grind even more to get even the most basic things like car upgrades, or, their preferred method, to whip out your credit card and spend real cash on in-game credits to by-pass the horrid grind that will ensue from this update. People wanted a complete game at launch, not a will-be-completed-eventually, half-cooked 70€/80€ beta.
Last edited:
Lion-Face
Premium
- 1,467
- Invercargill
- Lion-Face
Assuming you have finished Cafe book 39, License tests golded, Missions Golded, you should have more than 100 cars gifted to you over the course of the game. Along with 5 million+ credits earned while getting there. And you don't have a variety of cars? Considering the vast majority of the cars are less than 1 million credits, there is heaps of choice and you can pickup most of them for very little time investment.
Because someone has the opposite opinion to you doesn't make them a white knight. Listen to what the other people are saying and try to view the world from a different perspective. I'm not asking you to agree with them or their opinion, but it may open your eyes a little. Calling people white knights or whatever effectively shuts down an opinion and turns these discussions into a slinging match which goes no where fast
Almost all games don't have their MTX go live until launch day. This is not a new practice.
If I remember right, since GT5, there have been exploits or races that are an easy way to earn credits, which have been removed, changed or nerfed fairly early on within their lifecycle. PD are balancing the game to their vision as they see fit, which they are well within their rights to do, it is their game and product.
Day 1 is the worst time to buy anything, there isn't a complete picture out there to make a rational decision about if that product is right for oneself. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything day 1, it is on you. In this day and age, there is so much information out there so quickly, and along with the history of some of these products, that it is entirely on that person if they dive in on day one and feel like they got 'scammed'. Know what you are getting yourself into, and if you don't, maybe don't spend the money?
I haven't been burned by anything in GT7 because I knew what I was getting into, and everything so far, falls in line with the direction PD have been heading for the past 10 years now.
- 253
- Hungary
1) There isn't any information in this statement, which couldn't come 34 hours earlier. You are very very late, Mr. Yamauchi.
2) I paid for a full-fledged, high-priced game. Usually it is playable and full of content. Let me decide how and when I want to play it, no advices needed, thank you. If there's not enough content out of the box, or I can't use the feature I want immediately - that means you owe me at the moment.
2) I paid for a full-fledged, high-priced game. Usually it is playable and full of content. Let me decide how and when I want to play it, no advices needed, thank you. If there's not enough content out of the box, or I can't use the feature I want immediately - that means you owe me at the moment.
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
If they are so free to change the game as they see fit, why are we not allowed to get a refund when they make drastic changes to the product? They could change it to a puppy simulator and that'd just be their vision.
They doubled the grind. **** that. If I knew the game would take me a decade to complete without making it a part time job I never would've bought it. And they knew that people wouldn't like this, so they waited to nerf everything.
Last edited:
- 283
- RichiPuppy
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
Not to mention the many races that were already made for the game, but withheld just to make sure we have nothing but grind. Once player counts start dropping, once the MTX income slows, they add more in to drag people back. But see, they've added free updates! How generous!
They'll give you nothing and force you to get used to it, so that you appreciate when you finally get your occasional scraps.
They'll give you nothing and force you to get used to it, so that you appreciate when you finally get your occasional scraps.
- 283
- RichiPuppy
- 2,658
- Somewhere in the cloud
- GTP_Dutchy
people can we stop feeding the troll?
- 28,335
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I don't understand why people keep grasping onto the getting cars in record time thing. No one -- no, let me try this a different way:
NO ONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. NO ONE HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT.
You'll have to pardon to shouting nonsense, but I don't know how to make it clearer at this point. The gripe is the economy itself, full stop. It is garbage trash. Yes, that's redundant but it drives the point home.
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
It's honestly so tiring how many times this needs to be explained, over and over. The time difference between "right now" and the actual time needed to unlock all of the cars, if done optimally, is incredibly huge. Less than optimal is even bigger.I don't understand why people keep grasping onto the getting cars in record time thing. No one -- no, let me try this a different way:
NO ONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. NO ONE HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT.
You'll have to pardon to shouting nonsense, but I don't know how to make it clearer at this point. The gripe is the economy itself, full stop. It is garbage trash. Yes, that's redundant but it drives the point home.
It's not one or the other.
- 3,199
- Connecticut.
- mwoodski
- mwoodski
It is, though.
- 40,820
Platitudes. And at this point nothing new from him in response to criticism, to be frank; just like vaguely talking about "car culture" is his go-to reason for why the next GT is going to be so great. This is the exact same thing he made just-barely-beyond-canned-response interactions about when backlash against a specific thing in, say, GT5 would reach a fever pitch after that game launched in a miserable state. He references the specific things people don't like, he subtly shifts the blame away from PD for implementing it and onto the people who take issue with it as if they don't understand why it was done, misrepresents the basis for the criticism being levied, then offers a completely empty gesture that something may happen to assuage complaints about it even when obvious solutions are already present.
When PD added dozens of fake regional variations of cars to GT5 to pad out the car list, and people rightly took issue with the "1000 cars" in the game being made up of literally hundreds of cars where PD took multiple models and changed the text string in the car name and did nothing else (even in instances where doing so could have led to legitimately different models),
They did nothing to improve in this area, because they again needed the marketing checkbox to be higher than the marketing checkbox for the previous game so in fact made it even worse; even though all they needed to do to improve it was remove some cars that they made up and change some values on an internal spreadsheet for ones that they didn't correctly implement.
What about GT5's car sounds?
For funsies, that last link has a double whammy because this:
But sidestepping that, let's compare those statements above to the statements in this post:
Also note that he didn't actually say anything about the microtransactions. Not about their implementation into the game interface. Not about their prices being wildly higher than before. Not about how strongly they seem to correlate to the game's tortured structure and economy. Not that they were even implimented into the game at all when pay-to-win microtransactions in AAA games have been a constant, extremely controversial sticking point in the game industry (to the extent of what happened with Forza 7) for the past decade.
Also note that he didn't actually say anything about why they revised the event payments. Not about them being drastically reduced specifically as it pertains to the ones that were the fastest to gain money. Not about why they didn't simply raise the rest of the payments to try and "have users enjoy lots of cars." Not about why the solution that people had already found to get around microtransactions was deemed an unacceptable solution to the problem he acknowledged (but actively worked to make worse).
At this point it's legitimately kind of hard to tell if Yamauchi is early career Peter Molyneux (shoots his mouth off about things he really shouldn't talk about at the point in time he's doing so, over promises things to himself and underdelivers constantly but always promises to try harder next time, notes challenges faced and how they will be overcome next time) or later career Peter Molyneux (uses his fame to stifle criticism of him, overpromises about things that will be in his next title because he knows that is enough to get the hype going, says things he knows people will want to hear because he knows that his fans will use his statements to beat down people criticizing him, blames his failings on outside actors that he failed to account for.)
When PD added dozens of fake regional variations of cars to GT5 to pad out the car list, and people rightly took issue with the "1000 cars" in the game being made up of literally hundreds of cars where PD took multiple models and changed the text string in the car name and did nothing else (even in instances where doing so could have led to legitimately different models),
- Kaz specifically noted how people took issue with the practice.
-
- Then he framed the issue as just not understanding the reasoning behind them doing it rather than a deliberate decision PD took for a marketing checkbox:
-
- While also seemingly deliberately being obtuse about what the actual issue people had was:
-
- Before making an vague assertion that Kaz agrees with the problem and that there is a vague hanging implication that something will be done about it:
-
They did nothing to improve in this area, because they again needed the marketing checkbox to be higher than the marketing checkbox for the previous game so in fact made it even worse; even though all they needed to do to improve it was remove some cars that they made up and change some values on an internal spreadsheet for ones that they didn't correctly implement.
What about GT5's car sounds?
- Many here probably remember the infamous interview where he referenced people's complaints about that with GT5.
- He framed the issue people had with it as them not knowing enough to know they shouldn't be upset:
-
- Was deliberately obtuse about the reasoning people were taking issue with what PD had put together:
-
- Made vague notes about how it's something that the team will sort out:
-
For funsies, that last link has a double whammy because this:
Was in fact a bald-faced lie for that game, and functionally was a lie for the next decade of their output as well. But don't worry Sophie is definitely going to come to the game and fix everything.
But sidestepping that, let's compare those statements above to the statements in this post:
- Responding to a specific, loud criticism against the game:
-
- Reframing the issue as the people raising the criticism not actually understanding why PD are doing what they are doing rather than PD deliberately doing something that had a negative impact on the game quality
-
- Being deliberately obtuse about the actual basis that people are expressing the criticisms:
-
- Making meaningless statements that something may happen at some point (but please understand, they can't say what those might actually be) even though a quick solution is obvious and has already been widely discussed:
-
Also note that he didn't actually say anything about the microtransactions. Not about their implementation into the game interface. Not about their prices being wildly higher than before. Not about how strongly they seem to correlate to the game's tortured structure and economy. Not that they were even implimented into the game at all when pay-to-win microtransactions in AAA games have been a constant, extremely controversial sticking point in the game industry (to the extent of what happened with Forza 7) for the past decade.
Also note that he didn't actually say anything about why they revised the event payments. Not about them being drastically reduced specifically as it pertains to the ones that were the fastest to gain money. Not about why they didn't simply raise the rest of the payments to try and "have users enjoy lots of cars." Not about why the solution that people had already found to get around microtransactions was deemed an unacceptable solution to the problem he acknowledged (but actively worked to make worse).
At this point it's legitimately kind of hard to tell if Yamauchi is early career Peter Molyneux (shoots his mouth off about things he really shouldn't talk about at the point in time he's doing so, over promises things to himself and underdelivers constantly but always promises to try harder next time, notes challenges faced and how they will be overcome next time) or later career Peter Molyneux (uses his fame to stifle criticism of him, overpromises about things that will be in his next title because he knows that is enough to get the hype going, says things he knows people will want to hear because he knows that his fans will use his statements to beat down people criticizing him, blames his failings on outside actors that he failed to account for.)
And people complained about them in the context of this series alone ten years ago as well. They complained about the mere threat of them so much in GT's immediate rival series that they anything resembling them was stripped from the game and public statements were made about them not ever returning.
An awful lot of people in fact specifically referenced the PSN hack and subsequent outage as why an always online single player game is a terrible idea (alongside all of the other infamous examples of the terrible idea causing problems) when it was confirmed (and later defended) for GT7. That PD ended up screwing the pooch themselves and taking their own game down only a couple weeks after launch is merely evidence of how terrible of an idea it was to do in the first place for those who don't remember Sony's past incompetence in this area. Or EA's. Or Blizzard's. Or Bethesda's.
Last edited:
- 6,283
- Ottawa
- Pyano1132
Seriously? Listen, I’m disappointed too about the credit payouts and I’m not going to play the game again until they fix it but complaining that you got 30 hours of playtime out of a game is a little silly. Most games at full priced you’d be lucky to get 8 hour out of until completion. So I think that’s perfectly acceptable for the price charged for GT7.
I dunno I’m taking a break from the game until they update some stuff because I’ve also finished the campaign, but I think some people are forgetting that there’s still a lot of good qualities to GT7 like the weather system, some of the new physics etc. Yes they really screwed the economy but I hope they can get it back to a state where it’s fun to play again. But I’ll just move on for now without making a big stink about it.
Last edited:
- 963
- United Kingdom
Lion-Face
Premium
- 1,467
- Invercargill
- Lion-Face
Probably a poor choice of words by me, as they probably can't change it as they see fit. Getting a refund when they make drastic changes, sure, this hasn't happened though. I don't remember seeing a selling point on the box being 'obtain the most expensive car in 250 races or less' then 2 weeks later it is now more than 300. You would then have a leg to stand on.
So you were ok with the game taking 5 years to 'complete' but now it is up to 10 its a no go?
I don't know, I haven't gotten there yet. I'm at Café menu 20 with more than 2 million credits earned. So I was assuming I would have at least double with the better pay-outs on the way up.
- 1,455
- Oak Bay, NB, Canada
- Bic44
Glad he confirmed there are more races coming. We need that. And nice to see him acknowledge that grinding is not a good way to play. This game has a future, and they have such a nice driving experience I can overlook other flaws, particularly the low payouts, especially if we get a steady stream of new events over the coming months.
I'll never be happy about MTX, but you really have to go out of your way to get them. I remember years ago playing Forza (still love the franchise, especially 4) and you could almost accidentally buy a car with real money, which sucked. I just hope nobody is buying the MTX, that'll speed up the process of getting rid of them
I'll never be happy about MTX, but you really have to go out of your way to get them. I remember years ago playing Forza (still love the franchise, especially 4) and you could almost accidentally buy a car with real money, which sucked. I just hope nobody is buying the MTX, that'll speed up the process of getting rid of them
- 496
- Death Chicane
- MrNukkii
- Mister Nooki
No, but you see, wanting a grind that can be completed in a reasonable amount of time can only mean one thing - that we are entitled. We must be okay with the direction Polyphony took and the decisions they made, that's it, no ifs or buts.
- 9
- United States
What games are you finishing in 8 hours? 30 hours to complete a game is not long at all.
https://howlongtobeat.com/
Has a plethora of games that are 30+ hours for JUST the main story.
- 181
- Pennsyltucky
- ruggermole
I think that it's fair to be upset that they didn't get the replayability out of a game that they expected. Especially when the game is empty compared to previous installments.
I do think think that you do have some good advice about taking step away from the game. I think if we accept the fact that already spent money on the game and that it's a sunk cost we'd be in a better mood. Still disappointed in the game but probably in a better state of mind. Right now there isn't much we can do to control what is going on with the game so we should be placing our valuable time elsewhere. While I'm work complaining about the game is one of the best uses of my time but once I'm off the clock I'm certainly not stressing too much about this game.
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
- 2,131
- Porto
- JPSILVA1893
Yes, I did. Brilliant post from @Tornado.
Similar threads
