Keef's Car Thread | Wheels on the Bus | 09/08/23

[///M-Spec]

Of course, were you not all assuming that I was implying a Mustang with upgraded tyres and brakes was an unfair comparison with a like-equipped M3 then there wouldn't be an issue anyway.

You were doing fine right up until that sentence.

Don't try to point the finger at us. Communication is a two way street and the speaker is responsible for making himself understood just as the listener is responsible for comprehending it. You certainly didn't like GT5Junkie "making you out like a massive idiot", so don't turn around and pull the same stunt on everyone else.

This is the second time in this thread that you've failed to apply the same standards to yourself that you hold others to. I suggest some personal retrospection is in order.


M

 

[Keef]

I want this car.

Nothing crazy, just an early 993 Carrera. Last of the great air-cooled Porsches. Fantastic looking car, and I bet it's an amazing drive to. Hopefully one day when I can afford one there will still be nice examples laying around.

 

[homeforsummer]

They seem to last pretty well so I'm sure there will be. A 993 is probably right near the top of my "things to own eventually" list too, though a late 80s 3.2 Carrera and a Boxster S are both stepping stones I'd like to take on the way to a 993 too.

I've had a thought actually.

How much are 924s and 944s over there Keef? They're dirt cheap in the UK and well within reach in the FC RX7 and E30 3-Series market. I'm talking between £1-3k over here for a decent 924 or 924S...

Seems to have everything you'd want. They're simple, reliable, look pretty good, RWD, just about has four seats, decent trunk etc.

 

[Keef]

How much are 924s and 944s over there Keef? They're dirt cheap in the UK and well within reach in the FC RX7 and E30 3-Series market. I'm talking between £1-3k over here for a decent 924 or 924S...

Seems to have everything you'd want. They're simple, reliable, look pretty good, RWD, just about has four seats, decent trunk etc.

They're either cheap because they're crap or they're nice but way overpriced. Tremendously expensive to maintain (MistaX performed a routine tune-up on one - for $800), and they're not any better at anything than the FC. In fact, I'd put money on a naturally aspirated 944 to be a worse sports car than the FC. Also, the Japanese car is on an entirely different level of coolness.

That's all besides the fact that they're a joke of a Porsche. Pah! I would never consider owning one.

 

[homeforsummer]

Fairy snuff. You'd be surprised though, image issues from Porsche snobs aside they're supposed to be great cars.

Agree they'd probably be expensive to maintain though. As far as buying things like that go though I always feel like you lot get the short straw. 924s, Miatas, E30s... you seem to pay at least double for one in more or less the same condition as we do over here. Less chance of rust admittedly but my old MX5 only had a tiny bit of rust and only set me back a grand... probably spent another couple over the year I had it getting it mechanically perfect of course before it got nicked, but then it was always a bit of a project.

Still want another.

Looked at any more E30s yet?

 

[Tornado]

How much are 924s and 944s over there Keef?

10 grand for one that you would conceivably trust enough to get you where you are going.
15 grand for one that you would have to make into one that you would conceivably trust enough to get you where you are going. On top of whatever it cost to actually buy the thing.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yikes. So even considering currency conversion, about four or five times more minimum than they are in the UK.

I don't think I'll ever fully understand car pricing over there. New cars cost peanuts comparatively, and second-hand cars just stop depreciating beyond a certain point unless they're proper heaps of junk. And unless I'm completely mistaken, cars over there don't even have to take annual roadworthiness tests like they do in the UK (MOT), do they? So at the (expensive) bottom end of the market, they're likely in worse nick, too.

 

[Tornado]

New cars cost peanuts comparatively, and second-hand cars just stop depreciating beyond a certain point unless they're proper heaps of junk.

Depends. Domestic and Japanese cars generally have no bottom limit in pricing (there are exceptions, obviously, but that is just what they are). Almost anything European, though, simply stops depreciating after it passes a certain point.

And unless I'm completely mistaken, cars over there don't even have to take annual roadworthiness tests like they do in the UK (MOT), do they?

Depends. That is a state to state thing. Some states only require you to do it when you register the car. Some states require annual inspections, but I don't think any of them do to an extent that is required in the U.K.

 

[GT5Junkie]

Yikes. So even considering currency conversion, about four or five times more minimum than they are in the UK.

I don't think I'll ever fully understand car pricing over there. New cars cost peanuts comparatively, and second-hand cars just stop depreciating beyond a certain point unless they're proper heaps of junk. And unless I'm completely mistaken, cars over there don't even have to take annual roadworthiness tests like they do in the UK (MOT), do they? So at the (expensive) bottom end of the market, they're likely in worse nick, too.

You can get a 944 for practically nothing, it's just tough, and usually expensive, to find a good one.

There are currently 144 944s listed for sale in the US on autotrader.com.

The most expensive asking price is $22,995 and is for a 1990 Cabriolet with 29,000 actual miles on it.

The cheapest is $1,999 and is a 1984 with 164,000 with what appears to be a horrid paintjob and a trashed interior.

You can find OODLES of 944s for between 4 and 6 grand and they usually have ~ 120,000 miles or more and blown head gaskets (or similar problems, the only two that I've ever looked at buying both had blown head gaskets) and non-working air conditioning. And every car salesman on the planet is apparently genetically programmed to say "It just needs a recharge and it'll work great." Even though what they all actually need is a 600 dollar A/C compressor and the labor to install it.

I'd say 10 grand will buy you a darn nice one, that has at least a shot at being relatively reliable. Maybe 12 grand. We're talking about roughly 20 year old cars here, no matter how well maintained or low mileage they are, things can always go wrong.

Even the skanky ones are fun to drive though. Friend of mine's dad had a small used car dealership and he drove around a lot car that was a real piece of junk late 80s 944 with bronze paint that look like it had been applied with a broom. Still cornered like a champ and the holes in the muffler gave it a nice, jaunty exhaust note.

Pesonally I think they can be pretty good looking cars, as well:

Autotrader

Damn it, now I want an old 944 to toodle around in.

 

[Keef]

Compare the prices Toronado and GT5Junkie have presented to the $2,900 I paid for my FC. Admittedly below the norm for the condition I bought it in, but even at $4,000 for a clean NA example and $6,000 for a Turbo II, they're a bargain. The NA engine is very predictable and reliable - for one thing, it doesn't even have a head gasket.

Yes, they're good looking cars and they're probably built with slightly better materials than the RX7, but it's not enough to warrant the price premium. These RX7s were halo sports cars back in their day and they're plenty well designed and built as it is. Besides, who gets leather in a sports car?

 

[Tornado]

RX-7 was basically the Japanese knock-off of the 944 anyways.

 

[Keef]

And it basically did the job better, for less money. Looks better, too. Also it shoots flames.

Anyways, bought some tune up parts:

Bushings for my front lower control arms, rear swing arms, and front and rear sway bars. Yes, I bought bushings for the scrawny 14mm rear sway. They were only $12!

 

[astrosdude91]

And unless I'm completely mistaken, cars over there don't even have to take annual roadworthiness tests like they do in the UK (MOT), do they?

I know at least here in Texas (and I'm pretty sure it's the same in most if not all states), there is an annual state inspection. Though, here in Texas, it's not nearly as strict as it is in the UK. Your car would literally have to be falling apart to fail an inspection.

 

[Adamgp]

I know at least here in Texas (and I'm pretty sure it's the same in most if not all states), there is an annual state inspection. Though, here in Texas, it's not nearly as strict as it is in the UK. Your car would literally have to be falling apart to fail an inspection.

No inspection in Illinois, at least in the Chicago 'burbs. Just an emissions test every ~2 years if a car is over a certain age. The car has to be running good to do the test though. (no SES lights, etc.)

 

[Keef]

In Ohio we only have to get a car inspected if you're registering one bought out of state. If you're friendly with the dealership, that involves them asking if the seatbelts work and then signing a paper. They got rid of the emissions check years ago because it was a waste of money, so now the first modification my friends and I always do is remove as many converters as possible and sell them for money.

 

[GT5Junkie]

In fact, I'd put money on a naturally aspirated 944 to be a worse sports car than the FC.

If you're talking about some esoteric "feeling" then there's not much to say, if you're talking about actual performance, than an NA 944 S2 is very comparable to a Turbo II and will trounce an NA RX-7.

 

[Keef]

Completely subjective, yes. Kind of like how a Miata is a better sports car than a 458.

 

[///M-Spec]

Keef. Between the leather in a sports car and the FC > 944, I'm raising an eyebrow.

But a Miata > 458... I'm just speechless.


M

 

[Keef]

Keef. Between the leather in a sports car and the FC > 944, I'm raising an eyebrow.

But a Miata > 458... I'm just speechless.


M

Doug would have said the same thing. Audi owners...

 

[///M-Spec]

!snap.

You're just totally jealous of our furiously shifting Tiptronics.

So when do we get your test drive review of the Italia? (I presume this is the 458 you're talking about?)


M

 

[Joey D]

Doug would have said the same thing. Audi owners...

BMW owner now .

 

[Keef]

BMW owner now .

Back in his Volvo days I could have told you this was coming. It was only a matter of time until he found the stereotype that fit him best...

Azuremen went straight to the top!

 

[Keef]

Just ordered some new Mazdaspeed transmission mount bushings and factory inner shift boots, along with a new warning light surround and left defroster grille because mine are broken. Damn 20 year old plastic.

EDIT: And I finally found the rear speaker grilles I need to work with my cargo tray! Awesome!

 

[Keef]

Look at that contraption...

EDIT: I need help finding a roll center solution for my car. The S5 apparently has non-replaceable ball joints in the front lower control arms. I've already designed a solution to that problem in my head, but that involves handing an arm to the inspector at work, taking lots of measurements, designing a program, and then an hour or two of machining to make a park that may or may not work in practice.

Or I could swap to S4 control arms because the geometry is the same but they have replaceable ball joint sections. But I think the sway bar mounts differently on those arms...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

What's in that there differential? Hallucinogens?

 

[nobuffalo]

Look at that contraption...

Well, that certainly is, different... Different compared to any other IRS assembly i've ever seen. That's pretty neat if I must say.

 

[Tornado]

If you're talking about some esoteric "feeling" then there's not much to say, if you're talking about actual performance, than an NA 944 S2 is very comparable to a Turbo II and will trounce an NA RX-7.

And for 944 S2 money you could buy a Z32 300ZX.

Besides, I think Keef was talking "normal" 944s.

 

[Keef]

What's in that there differential? Hallucinogens?

Yeah, the weak kind. That damn viscous diff doesn't even work in first gear!

Also, I just spent an hour or two replacing my bottom and middle rubber shift boots. The old ones were both torn so grease and dirt was everywhere and cold air was spewing out of my boot. In the summer, monumental heat spewed out instead. Not it's nice and sealed so no more air will leak, and it should be a little quieter.

 

[nobuffalo]

You know much about the 10th Anniversary Edition? They very sought after?

 

[Keef]

They're S4 only which mean they missed out on the upgraded S5 performance treatment, but if you can find one in pristine condition they might be worth a bit more than an equally excellent T2. Besides that, despite being rare they're still FCs which means people didn't take care of them. I would only concentrate on that model if I found one that happened to be perfect; other than that, I wouldn't even shop for an S4.