Keef's Car Thread | Wheels on the Bus | 09/08/23
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Paint the hood light blue and put a golden Lowenbrau logo on it. This is the only pic I could find but I have this same sign hanging on my wall.
Keef
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No deal.
On the way there it was all the RX7's defroster could do to keep half the windshield clear, and the sides just enough to see the mirrors. We had to keep recirculate on because 75% of the heat goes to the driver's footwell for some reason, a problem exacerbated by drawing 5 degree outside air. The air conditioning was on the whole time to clean the moisture out, but that didn't stop it from freezing on the inside of the windows. That's how it cold was at 4am while cruising 70mph through the hills of Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, we were pretty toasty while during our 7:30am nap in the car, our only sleep for over 25 hours and during the coldest time of the day, no less.
We showed up to this kid's house at about 11:30. Riverton, New Jersey, right across the river from Philadelphia. We pull up, have a little meet and greet and while Jimmy, the seller, and my cousin, Tyler, walk back to the garage I return to my car to make sure I had my $4000 envelope. I looked at it but I wasn't overcome with excitement about spending it, or even part of it. Maybe that was a sign.
The car looked decent at first glance. Jimmy had made it out to be one of the best E30s he'd seen, though I did convince him to photograph the car thoroughly and write about all its flaws. I needed a list. There were bodywork imperfections here and there but nothing I've never had on my own cars, some clearcoat scratches and scuffs, but the engine bay was stupendously clean and parts of the interior were in near-perfect shape. In particular, the dash was excellent in look and feel, and uncracked. The seats were Euro-market factory Recaros which get a B- for some very minor tears in the vinyl but controls that still work well, and an excellent fit and superb comfort around my thin body. The carpet had been cut which left a sour taste in my mouth, and small trim pieces were missing here and there, inside and in the trunk. Might that be offset by the working cruise control and the super nifty 1986-status trip computer? As it turned out, no.
The question of heat came up. It went like this, "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask you...does the heat work?"
"No."
"..."
The heater core had burst previously, leaking into the interior, leading to the cut carpet which I assume was cleaned and laid back into place. Right, so the car is out a heater core and it is 5 degree outside. Great! Would the universally praised E30 driving dynamics make up for all these faults? As it turned out, no.
The car started before it even turned over, and it sounded nice. Albeit the exhaust was a fart can with a custom pipe, not the "Magnaflow catback" as the ad said, but it sounded good. As I said the seat was lovely and the pedals were easy to modulate, though a bid stiffer than the Japanese norm I'm used to. The steering seemed dreadfully slow, and I wondered what idiot engineer decided to use the steering column from a Peterbilt. How the hell can you praise this thing as a "sports car" when it feels like swinging a school bus around a corner? The angle of the wheel was even worse than my old Civic, in fact. The shifter has a well-worn version of BMW's typically lifeless and rubbery feel, though it did shift easily, smoothly, and definitely wasn't like a mop in a bucket. I quite enjoyed going left and up into reverse. As we were driving I remembered that car had 160,000 or more miles (the odometer had stopped, as is typical) so I put the thing in 4th at about 30 mph and floored it. You car people will know this as "the test". The satisfyingly torquey engine started chugging and the revs started climbing - slowly at first, then faster, and soon they were soaring to the 5000rpm redline. The same thing happened it fifth. A slipping clutch is definitely not what I was expecting from this car or this seller, but that's what it had. So much for driving dynamics.
Tyler and I stayed outside to deliberate in private. We called some BMW friends, explained the situation, theorized, and considered what I really want from a new car, and after 10 minutes and a few frozen toes, we came to a decision. We knocked on Jimmy's door and he invited us in, but we said no thanks. "I decided not to buy the car."
"Oh...okay."
"There were problems that disappointed me and problems that surprised me, and they don't fit with what I want out of a new car. I want to buy a car that does everything better than the one I have, and honestly that E30 is not it. Thank you for letting us look at and drive it, and good luck selling it."
We shook hands and left. Tyler and I drove back into Philly where we stopped at a Walmart for some supplies. We cruised on over to Pat's King of Steaks to try some real Philly cheesesteaks, and boy, even though it had crept up to 15 degrees by this time, they were fantastic. I'll definitely be going back when it warms up. We stuffed ourselves to the gills and proceeded toward the highway for the trip home.
On the way there it was all the RX7's defroster could do to keep half the windshield clear, and the sides just enough to see the mirrors. We had to keep recirculate on because 75% of the heat goes to the driver's footwell for some reason, a problem exacerbated by drawing 5 degree outside air. The air conditioning was on the whole time to clean the moisture out, but that didn't stop it from freezing on the inside of the windows. That's how it cold was at 4am while cruising 70mph through the hills of Pennsylvania. Believe it or not, we were pretty toasty while during our 7:30am nap in the car, our only sleep for over 25 hours and during the coldest time of the day, no less.
We showed up to this kid's house at about 11:30. Riverton, New Jersey, right across the river from Philadelphia. We pull up, have a little meet and greet and while Jimmy, the seller, and my cousin, Tyler, walk back to the garage I return to my car to make sure I had my $4000 envelope. I looked at it but I wasn't overcome with excitement about spending it, or even part of it. Maybe that was a sign.
The car looked decent at first glance. Jimmy had made it out to be one of the best E30s he'd seen, though I did convince him to photograph the car thoroughly and write about all its flaws. I needed a list. There were bodywork imperfections here and there but nothing I've never had on my own cars, some clearcoat scratches and scuffs, but the engine bay was stupendously clean and parts of the interior were in near-perfect shape. In particular, the dash was excellent in look and feel, and uncracked. The seats were Euro-market factory Recaros which get a B- for some very minor tears in the vinyl but controls that still work well, and an excellent fit and superb comfort around my thin body. The carpet had been cut which left a sour taste in my mouth, and small trim pieces were missing here and there, inside and in the trunk. Might that be offset by the working cruise control and the super nifty 1986-status trip computer? As it turned out, no.
The question of heat came up. It went like this, "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask you...does the heat work?"
"No."
"..."
The heater core had burst previously, leaking into the interior, leading to the cut carpet which I assume was cleaned and laid back into place. Right, so the car is out a heater core and it is 5 degree outside. Great! Would the universally praised E30 driving dynamics make up for all these faults? As it turned out, no.
The car started before it even turned over, and it sounded nice. Albeit the exhaust was a fart can with a custom pipe, not the "Magnaflow catback" as the ad said, but it sounded good. As I said the seat was lovely and the pedals were easy to modulate, though a bid stiffer than the Japanese norm I'm used to. The steering seemed dreadfully slow, and I wondered what idiot engineer decided to use the steering column from a Peterbilt. How the hell can you praise this thing as a "sports car" when it feels like swinging a school bus around a corner? The angle of the wheel was even worse than my old Civic, in fact. The shifter has a well-worn version of BMW's typically lifeless and rubbery feel, though it did shift easily, smoothly, and definitely wasn't like a mop in a bucket. I quite enjoyed going left and up into reverse. As we were driving I remembered that car had 160,000 or more miles (the odometer had stopped, as is typical) so I put the thing in 4th at about 30 mph and floored it. You car people will know this as "the test". The satisfyingly torquey engine started chugging and the revs started climbing - slowly at first, then faster, and soon they were soaring to the 5000rpm redline. The same thing happened it fifth. A slipping clutch is definitely not what I was expecting from this car or this seller, but that's what it had. So much for driving dynamics.
Tyler and I stayed outside to deliberate in private. We called some BMW friends, explained the situation, theorized, and considered what I really want from a new car, and after 10 minutes and a few frozen toes, we came to a decision. We knocked on Jimmy's door and he invited us in, but we said no thanks. "I decided not to buy the car."
"Oh...okay."
"There were problems that disappointed me and problems that surprised me, and they don't fit with what I want out of a new car. I want to buy a car that does everything better than the one I have, and honestly that E30 is not it. Thank you for letting us look at and drive it, and good luck selling it."
We shook hands and left. Tyler and I drove back into Philly where we stopped at a Walmart for some supplies. We cruised on over to Pat's King of Steaks to try some real Philly cheesesteaks, and boy, even though it had crept up to 15 degrees by this time, they were fantastic. I'll definitely be going back when it warms up. We stuffed ourselves to the gills and proceeded toward the highway for the trip home.
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Cool story bro.
Some of that about the car is fair enough. If the car you drove is a dud, it's a dud.
Other things I'm not so sure. What were you expecting from the steering? It's very, very well known to have a slow rack. Even the M3. Same with the wheel's position. The rack can be improved - the Z3 one slots straight in and takes about a turn off the 4-odd it already has.
And yeah, the gearshift in the five Bee-Ems I've driven before (all E36s) has never been that special. It was "good" (i.e. not excellent) in a 318is Sport, and very average in all the others.
So are you giving up on E30s then or just not interested in that particular car?
Some of that about the car is fair enough. If the car you drove is a dud, it's a dud.
Other things I'm not so sure. What were you expecting from the steering? It's very, very well known to have a slow rack. Even the M3. Same with the wheel's position. The rack can be improved - the Z3 one slots straight in and takes about a turn off the 4-odd it already has.
And yeah, the gearshift in the five Bee-Ems I've driven before (all E36s) has never been that special. It was "good" (i.e. not excellent) in a 318is Sport, and very average in all the others.
So are you giving up on E30s then or just not interested in that particular car?
Keef
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That car, hell no. I can deal with the steering, but being so used to a near-perfect sports car driving position to a relatively terrible one in a car that is praised as God's own driving experience was quite a surprise to me.
I like E30s. I just need to find a nice one.
Also, some cars...
VIP?
Like the fogs and CRV are tits...
Strange love for this generation Jimmy and Blazer...
Different, capable, big, cool...
Fairly epic lulz. If I rolled up to my friends in this they would ****. Serious road trip machine.
I also found a 2003 Subaru Legacy GT with a 5-speed and 127,000 miles for $5600, which is a bit more than what I'm looking to spend. I think that would be an excellent car though, almost exactly what I'm looking for. Fun, capable, practical, cool, maybe even reliable. A nice, good car.
Been thinking, maybe it's time for a small SUV or something. Something totally different. A CRV, like that one, or the Trooper, or Jimmys and Blazers like the above, which I have a strange love for.
Serious question:
Only problem is, it's turbo.
What's the word on old Benz Diesels, like say, a 1985 300D?
I like E30s. I just need to find a nice one.
Also, some cars...
VIP?
Like the fogs and CRV are tits...
Strange love for this generation Jimmy and Blazer...
Different, capable, big, cool...
Fairly epic lulz. If I rolled up to my friends in this they would ****. Serious road trip machine.
I also found a 2003 Subaru Legacy GT with a 5-speed and 127,000 miles for $5600, which is a bit more than what I'm looking to spend. I think that would be an excellent car though, almost exactly what I'm looking for. Fun, capable, practical, cool, maybe even reliable. A nice, good car.
Been thinking, maybe it's time for a small SUV or something. Something totally different. A CRV, like that one, or the Trooper, or Jimmys and Blazers like the above, which I have a strange love for.
Serious question:
Only problem is, it's turbo.
What's the word on old Benz Diesels, like say, a 1985 300D?
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But then everyone would know what a massive douche you must be. I'd keep driving the mazda. Its a little more cryptic. The BMW would really put you out on front street.
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What's all this about Keef? First you're after E30s but you're still considering a handful of turds too? I mean, the van is cool and that generation Passat is a nice design, but really? That grey GM SUV between the two GMCs we got in the UK as the Vauxhall Monterey. A Vauxhall.
If you really must get a Passat though: W8.
Otherwise, keep hunting for an E30. Or get the E36, though in those you have to put up with an annoyingly offset driving position even if the steering wheel is now at the correct angle.
Did you get the E36 Compact over there? That's a good mix of E30 and E36. Drives like the old car, built better than the newer car, has a cool mix of old and new in the interior and the driving position is better than either. And if my memory serves me correctly, you could only get them as a 323i over there, which is a nice enough engine. I've driven four of the things in four-cylinder guise and they're great cars.
Actually, a brief look on ebay US seems to indicate they sold the 4-cyl versions there too. Though the only one I could find in Ohio has been... err... "improved" by the current owner and I wouldn't touch it with someone else's.
If you really must get a Passat though: W8.
Otherwise, keep hunting for an E30. Or get the E36, though in those you have to put up with an annoyingly offset driving position even if the steering wheel is now at the correct angle.
Did you get the E36 Compact over there? That's a good mix of E30 and E36. Drives like the old car, built better than the newer car, has a cool mix of old and new in the interior and the driving position is better than either. And if my memory serves me correctly, you could only get them as a 323i over there, which is a nice enough engine. I've driven four of the things in four-cylinder guise and they're great cars.
Actually, a brief look on ebay US seems to indicate they sold the 4-cyl versions there too. Though the only one I could find in Ohio has been... err... "improved" by the current owner and I wouldn't touch it with someone else's.
Rotary Junkie
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Eh, nah. Unless you've recently lost your sight?
Only if you B20/VTEC it like a real man.
No. Run. Run far, far away. They're actually pretty nice trucks inside and they can go for quite a long time (they are GM products)... Just, being GM products... They'll have issues from an early age and just keep going regardless.
Nothing to say here really...
Yes. But no. But yes. It's indeed an epic road trip vehicle... But when something goes wrong... Have fun with what should be a 15 minute job taking 3 days.
That might actually not be an entirely bad idea. Provided the shifter isn't as trash as, say, the 2010 Legacy's. (It feels less direct than the 2-foot-long railroad switch in my uncle's 200k mile 2000 F150)
Stanced CR-V? Stock exterior CR-V done like following
?
Jimmy/Blazer should be avoided though. They'll eat gas just as quickly as a fullsize SUV/pickup (no lie), eat front suspension bits even quicker, etc etc. Decent trucks, but terrible trucks.
Yes if mid-'01 or later. May as well grab a facelift. The early 1.8Ts had issues and were slow. Perhaps a VR6 manual but those are thirsty.
300D... Run. 300SD, go if you can deal with the seats. W124 300D, go.
They're all slow but the SD slightly less than the 300D despite added size, W124 300D was available with a turbo and resulting decent output.
Keef
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So you're saying this thing is a no-go?
I've also found a couple of these that are fairly nice. Early-model 124s I believe...
But I don't know. I'm always in a hurry in my cars, and with a vehicle like these I would always be late, everywhere.
I found a decent 1979 635CSi for sale. Apparently the interior is pretty nice, it has 98,000 miles, but the paint and graphics are faded a bit. It also has Alpina wheels. Thinking about taking a look soon.
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If you want a merc go for the late 80s 190e 16v cosworth. They're more common than the E30 M3 with similar performance for less price.
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The problem with that theory is that it could be applied to pretty much every used car these days. All you can do is look it over the best you can before making up your mind.
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worst. idea. ever.
McLaren
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Are you looking for a beater car to drive because of the RX-7, or do you just want to piss money away when both need to be fixed?So you're saying this thing is a no-go?
I've also found a couple of these that are fairly nice. Early-model 124s I believe...
But I don't know. I'm always in a hurry in my cars, and with a vehicle like these I would always be late, everywhere.
I found a decent 1979 635CSi for sale. Apparently the interior is pretty nice, it has 98,000 miles, but the paint and graphics are faded a bit. It also has Alpina wheels. Thinking about taking a look soon.
Those Benz's & the 6 Series will require a bit of money if the wrong part goes.
Just stick to looking at 3 Series.
Keef
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I don't want to stick to the 3-series because they're all garbage.
Why does every car on the market have to suck? I can't get anything American because they're all garbage, I can't get anything European because they're all fancy leathery garbage, and I can't get anything Japanese because they're cheap and so people treat them like garbage. Except Miatas, but they're completely impractical and ludicrously expensive.
Anyway, the theory with the dull Benz was that I'd get one of these vaunted W124s and be boring until I can afford a second car, which would probably cost less than $150 extra for six months of liability coverage. The E30 was to ad $119, actually. Not bad. But then of course I have to register two cars every year which doubles that cost from one million to two million dollars.
Maybe I should just cave and say that yes, Miatas are the best car ever created.
Why does every car on the market have to suck? I can't get anything American because they're all garbage, I can't get anything European because they're all fancy leathery garbage, and I can't get anything Japanese because they're cheap and so people treat them like garbage. Except Miatas, but they're completely impractical and ludicrously expensive.
Anyway, the theory with the dull Benz was that I'd get one of these vaunted W124s and be boring until I can afford a second car, which would probably cost less than $150 extra for six months of liability coverage. The E30 was to ad $119, actually. Not bad. But then of course I have to register two cars every year which doubles that cost from one million to two million dollars.
Maybe I should just cave and say that yes, Miatas are the best car ever created.
Keef
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At the same time that every used car sucks, new cars are nicer but more isolated, at least from a sporting point of view. An original Miata is a cheap piece of junk, but in my opinion is more rewarding to drive because of that basicness. Any new car that strikes the balance of quality materials and a sturdy build but is also spectacular to drive is far and away out of most people's price range. Elises, for example. Beyond that, they're even less practical for year-round, daily use than a first-gen Miata.
EDIT: There are actually two good cars in world. The first being a Miata, and the second being an E36 M3 for when you grow up and have a boss to impress. They even come with four doors for when you have a family.
EDIT: There are actually two good cars in world. The first being a Miata, and the second being an E36 M3 for when you grow up and have a boss to impress. They even come with four doors for when you have a family.
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Keef:
You're going to need to widen your net to find a nice E30 - look towards the South. It's worth looking in cities you're going to have to fly to and drive back from. There are lots of good indie BMW techs around who will do a good PPI for you for a reasonable price. Also, shop some of the better BMW fora classifieds. Many of those cars have known history on the board, and also, the Internet Police will keep the highway robbery somewhat in check.
That being said, good E30s are going for more than good E36s these days, even leaving the M3 out of the equation.
You're going to need to widen your net to find a nice E30 - look towards the South. It's worth looking in cities you're going to have to fly to and drive back from. There are lots of good indie BMW techs around who will do a good PPI for you for a reasonable price. Also, shop some of the better BMW fora classifieds. Many of those cars have known history on the board, and also, the Internet Police will keep the highway robbery somewhat in check.
That being said, good E30s are going for more than good E36s these days, even leaving the M3 out of the equation.
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See, we weren't joking.
Actually, it's the reason I bit the bullet and took out a loan, and bought a nearly new car.
After the Mazda got stolen, I had a few options. Buy another £1k beater and spend a fortune bringing it up to good condition like I did with the Miata. Get a loan and buy a nice used car, or get a loan and buy a nice nearly-new but slightly less "prestige" car.
I took option three. Option one is a false economy. You get a cheap car, but have to spend loads of money making it "just so" and the car probably has well over a decade's worth of uncaring owners.
Option two was very tempting. I looked at stuff like Impreza Turbos, top-end Jaguar X-Types, six-cylinder BMWs, various hot hatches, a couple of different Type R Hondas and so on. All very nice cars, but all had problems for me. Being in the UK, all of them would absolutely bugger me on road tax since all were built post-2001. All would also do nasty things to my bank account on insurance. And all would cost a lot to service. And the Impreza is a total thief magnet and I didn't particularly want to get another car stolen.
The biggest problem with all of them is that none are as fun as my old Mazda, and there's not a single one of them I'd want to own in preference to another MX5. But since I can't own another MX5 just yet (for my own sanity) I went for option 3.
Get a loan, buy a nearly-new car still with things like warranty and not requiring an MOT for a while, with low enough miles to ensure the previous owner hasn't ragged it, that I can keep until I've paid off the loan. And it's still good fun, but it's cheap to insure, tax, service, fuel etc.
Moral of my story: Why don't you take out a loan and get something a little newer Keef? You might then be able to get something that suits your needs, is suitably quick and suitably cheap to run.
Honestly, it may work in your favour in the long run. For a start, my loan repayments on the Fiat are considerably less than I was spending each month fixing the Mazda, and second, even after three or four years the Fiat will still be worth more second-hand ready for my next car.
Keef
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I can't afford the loan payments on anything more expensive. I took out a $4000 loan over 48 months to keep the payments at $107 a month, just in case I couldn't sell my Rex and actually had to pay it. The goal was to have half of it paid off immediately when the Rex sold, meaning I'd only have to pay for 2 years, maybe less.
Making college money and being a stickler for saving like I am, I'm wary of the whole loan thing at all. I had to have a cosigner just to get this one because my income is so low. I could use my savings, but that would leave with only a $6000 budget and no savings, which is no better.
Making college money and being a stickler for saving like I am, I'm wary of the whole loan thing at all. I had to have a cosigner just to get this one because my income is so low. I could use my savings, but that would leave with only a $6000 budget and no savings, which is no better.
Keef
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I suppose I should be more patient. Actually, this is a great opportunity to be patient because I already have a car. The other times I've been shopping were because I had crashed and actually needed one.
I'll have to start test driving a lot of them to see what I actually like or not. It seems like I expect the first car I see to be the one, when the only reason I always thought that in the past was because the car I ended up with happened to be way better than the previous one.
I'll have to start test driving a lot of them to see what I actually like or not. It seems like I expect the first car I see to be the one, when the only reason I always thought that in the past was because the car I ended up with happened to be way better than the previous one.
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I took a loan because I had no savings. Paying rent, council tax, living costs and then having spent so much on the Mazda before its demise a loan was the only way I could get anything better than a beater.
Amusingly, since selling the Mazda I've got more in my savings now than I've had for about eight years, so the loan thing obviously worked for me.
Blake
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