KY Confirms GT6 In Development Already

[Snaeper]

Only every system which comes out. To moms and kids, they describe how cool, fun and easy to use it is. To teens and men, they mention details like connectivity, game media, ram, processors, even power usage.

Maybe in your circle of friends and community, but growing up in high school when the next-gen consoles were coming out and now having worked at a movie and game rental store for the past three years tells me that they most certainly do not.

And let's face it, Polyphony would have to work some kind of miracle to improve GT6 on PS3 and add lots of new features. I think all they can do is something drastic like simplify the car and track models to half-Premium levels or so, make 3D an optional install, and other things which I'd imagine Kaz wouldn't stand for. Except for the 3D install thing, there aren't that many 3D TVs out yet, and that would probably help with GT6 performance. But how much?

Well Yamauchi-san seems to think that GT5 needed two more years and it would've been a complete game. And since the PS4 hasn't even been announced yet, it seems to suggest that more could've been added to GT5 on the PS3. Taking what he learned from GT5, he could easily combine it with what he wanted in GT5 as well as add new content and updated features and call it a game, 'cause I'd buy it and I'm sure a lot of other people would too.

The most sensible thing to do is try to squeeze as much into GT5 as possible over the next two or three years, including whatever performance enhancements they can come up with, and stable ones which don't cause many issues. A few new cars, the classic tracks from previous GTs as well as some new ones, expanding A-Spec races, an Event Generator, as well as additional Race Mod options including some kind of livery implementation would keep GT5 popular until PS4 and GT6 were ready.

That's a lot of stuff and considering you're suggesting it should go into GT5, why not make GT6? If they charged me for all of that I'd probably end up paying more than 60$ separate for it anyways. You're expecting a lot to come from DLC and I'm just gonna guess that it'll be more cars and a few more tracks.

Providing periodic DLC would also be less time consuming and not require many of the team to create, leaving most of them free to focus on GT6, and making it the Gran Turismo we've been dreaming of.

How do you know that?

 

[Tornado]

Sigh,

The ps4 will certainly have other specs also. Things like next generation usb, playstation eye 2.0 different types of controllers both motion and traditional.

I am talking about the hardware base specs. Things like the RAM, processor type, speed etc. Things that will affect the type of Game Polyphony puts through.

And jagged shadows is the least of things. How bout 1080p @ 60 fps capped? How bout cars with double or triple the polycount of GT5? The tracks themselves? Better alpha trasnsparencies. Smoke, rain etc? More dynamic weather. Fully simulated damage, new gameplay features not possible on the ps3.

You know, I personally happen to think GT6 should focus on adding functionality rather than PD continuing their graphics-first willy-waving. Why the hell do we need cars with three times the polys of the Premiums? So they take even longer to make with no perceptible graphical benefit? How are any of those things "new gameplay features not possible on the PS3"?

That's why Gt6 is going to be wasted on the s3 since there is no scope for improvement in the software anymore due to hardware limits

And let's face it, Polyphony would have to work some kind of miracle to improve GT6 on PS3 and add lots of new features.

Why is it that GT6 can't come out looking roughly the same as GT5 did and have a greatly expanded feature set be the selling point? GT2 did compared to GT1. GT4 did compared to GT3.


Why is it that PD pushing the hardware is so important that it trumps the actual gameplay? I look at the first page of the feedback list, and the only thing on it that would require more powerful hardware (maybe) is the shadows fix.

A few new cars, the classic tracks from previous GTs as well as some new ones, expanding A-Spec races, an Event Generator, as well as additional Race Mod options including some kind of livery implementation would keep GT5 popular until PS4 and GT6 were ready.

And, again, what would the point of even making GT6 if PD put all of that into GT5? And why should I want to pay what would certainly be more than $60 to get that rather than just have GT6 on the PS3?

And when PD has made it relatively clear that they aren't going to do half of those, why should we hold our breath waiting for them?

 

[Strittan]

And let's face it, Polyphony would have to work some kind of miracle to improve GT6 on PS3 and add lots of new features. I think all they can do is something drastic like simplify the car and track models to half-Premium levels or so, make 3D an optional install, and other things which I'd imagine Kaz wouldn't stand for. Except for the 3D install thing, there aren't that many 3D TVs out yet, and that would probably help with GT6 performance. But how much?

This is what people don't realize. Some people seem to think the PS3 has no limits, but that's clearly not the case. As you said in earlier post, GT5 is pretty close to, if not at the very limit of PS3's performance already.

Kazunori himself actually mentioned that the premium cars are GT5 is better suited for the next generation, and I agree with him.

The most sensible thing to do is try to squeeze as much into GT5 as possible over the next two or three years, including whatever performance enhancements they can come up with, and stable ones which don't cause many issues. A few new cars, the classic tracks from previous GTs as well as some new ones, expanding A-Spec races, an Event Generator, as well as additional Race Mod options including some kind of livery implementation would keep GT5 popular until PS4 and GT6 were ready. Providing periodic DLC would also be less time consuming and not require many of the team to create, leaving most of them free to focus on GT6, and making it the Gran Turismo we've been dreaming of.

This. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I look at the first page of the feedback list, and the only thing on it that would require more powerful hardware (maybe) is the shadows fix.

And everything else can be added in updates and DLC packs, so I can't find a reason to release another game on this console.

 

[Tornado]

And everything else can be added in updates and DLC packs

Any reason to assume it would be and we should therefore anticipate it? Or that if it was that it wouldn't cost more than just buying GT6?

so I can't find a reason to release another game on this console.

And I can't see a reason why GT6 needs to be on PS4.

 

[Strittan]

Any reason to assume it would be? Or that if they did it wouldn't cost more than just buying GT6?

It's unlikely they will all be added, yes, but what's also unlikely is that GT6 will be released within the next 2 or 3, maybe even 4 years, even if they decide to release it on the PS3.

 

[Tornado]

what's also unlikely is that GT6 will be released within the next 2 or 3, maybe even 4 years.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. Much has been said about how GT6 wouldn't take nearly as long to develop as GT5 did because most of the foundation is already there, and PD has clearly been working on the game for a while now anyway; so how would it take PD from this point in time nearly as long as it did to make GT5 to build off of it with a sequel?
The only reason I can see that GT6 wouldn't be released within the next year and a half (or thereabouts) is if PD intentionally held it back to release it on a system that hasn't even been announced yet. A system whose hardware would not be finalized at this point (which means they wouldn't have any way of knowing its capabilities), whose hardware will most likely be drastically different from that of the PS3 (which means they would probably have to scrap a lot of the work they've done anyway), and whose launch is still years away (and there is nothing PD could do to the game to make people in general hold interest in GT5 that long).




And considering how well launch window announcements have gone for them the past two times they've tried it (Gran Turismo PSP, coming out just in time for the PSP PSP Slim PSP 3000 PSP Go launch. Gran Turismo HD: Coming out in 2006 2007 Never mind we give up.), I can't say I see them doing it in the first place (or anybody believing them if they actually did it).

 

[sikbeta]

Sorry, but you people are over-thinking the whole thing, GT5 had a huge development time because PD is an small team (compared to other Devs) and they were working alone, more important thing would be how much power and added functionalities will have the next PS system compared to the PS3, if the next Console is more like a PS3.5 that would asure a shorter development time without taking in to account the new cars that need to be modeled for the game, IF the next console makes a jump similar as the PS3 did compared to the PS2, that we don't know for sure, but it was confirmed by Kaz that this time they'll get help from the WWS, that should make things goes faster and better, I mean If you guys played Uncharted 2, GOW3 and KZ2, you know how much power the Sister Studios of PD can squeeze by helping each other 👍

 

[oblivionskate]

time isn't really an issue with kaz lol. so this announcement doesn't mean its coming soon. their version of soon is like 6 years.

 

[slackboy72]

I guess it all depends on when the PS4 gets released.
Sony won't want the next xbox to get too much of a headstart so I suspect 2014 is a reasonable guess given that we are expecting the next xbox in 2013.

 

[PAWEL17]

I'm sure making GT6(PS3) by taking GT5 and improving little things here and there, and adding extra content, people would still buy the game. I mean this is basically what games like call of duty and battlefield do every year. I know its not a fair comparison, but still, it just goes to show you, people will still get the game, even if there have only been slight improvements.

Not to mention, that there have been two GT games every console up to ps3(excluding prologues and other stand alones). It would seem fitting if they developed GT6 for the PS3.

 

[counter345]

In my opinion, Prologue was large enough to consider a Gran Turismo PS3 game.

 

[Tenacious D]

Why is it that GT6 can't come out looking roughly the same as GT5 did and have a greatly expanded feature set be the selling point? GT2 did compared to GT1. GT4 did compared to GT3.

Why is it that PD pushing the hardware is so important that it trumps the actual gameplay? I look at the first page of the feedback list, and the only thing on it that would require more powerful hardware (maybe) is the shadows fix.

The particle effects cause problems too, if you watch a replay of cars in the rain or kicking up much dust or smoke. It messes with the car graphics, producing glaring jaggies. There are also framerate and screen tearing issues. With a bunch of cars on screen at once and some particle effects going, the framerate can drop to 15fps or so.

The problem is that the PS3 is a high definition game system, and everyone expected a better looking game than Prologue, not one that looked worse. And with Forza 4 looking pretty darn stellar on the 360, which even many critics didn't think was possible, this casts a shadow over both the sheer power of the PS3 and Polyphony's prowess in delivering an exceptional game in all aspects, especially in graphics. Sure, PD was trying to cram too much Graham into the game without the time necessary to polish it, and a decent damage build was one casualty of that which was pulled halfway through its development. Some of that was their fault, some was most likely SONY's, such as the 3D implementation to help drive sales of their 3DTVs.

But because of all the hype of the PS3's amazing graphic capability, and what MS was able to pull off in Forza - albeit with a ton of cash invested, GT6 has to look markedly better, or PD will be seen as throwing in the towel and settling for second best, which I can assure you they will not do. Saying that "pushing the hardware is trumping the actual gameplay" is kind of a bad statement. Do Forza 4's graphics trump the gameplay? I might say yes because I have problems with it. But no, sublime graphics are something that goes hand in glove with a game to enhance the experience. Because of GT5 and 4ZA, now every racer is expected to have near-realistic graphics, and every developer wants them.

And, again, what would the point of even making GT6 if PD put all of that into GT5? And why should I want to pay what would certainly be more than $60 to get that rather than just have GT6 on the PS3?

And when PD has made it relatively clear that they aren't going to do half of those, why should we hold our breath waiting for them?

PD hasn't made any such statement like you assert. Rather, between what Kaz himself and some SCE spokespeople have said, we can expect a gob more goodies in GT5 over the coming year at least. In fact, Kaz basically said, "If we can put it into GT5, we will. If not, we'll save it for GT6." Now maybe that's just cars, tracks and a lot of Special Events, but we don't know. I notice that prominent among the Feedback wishes are more A-Spec Events, an Event Generator, more tracks with time of day and weather, more Race Mod cars and a Livery Editor. And we have gotten a number of our wishes in GT5 already, surprisingly.

As for how this would hurt the appeal of GT6, I doubt much at all. Just about everyone who bought GT5 will buy GT6, no matter how much extra stuff is loaded into GT5. Because GT6 will be a better game. When you build something with all the features included from the start, it's more stable, more complete, more fluid and feels less "pasted in," and generally works better. 3D might not work as well if it was patched in. And I wouldn't doubt that if something is "just too good," it'll be reserved for GT6, but I don't expect much of that.

A Livery Editor on the scale of what Forza offers might be as much work as their damage implementation, maybe less, but what we might get is a more simple Livery Template with regions we can paint in, to which we can add decals and sponsors, a racing plaque appropriate to some real or fantasy league, a driver name "typer," race car number choice, and national flags we can stick on the car where we chose. And something like this could work for the Standard cars as well. Then the real full blown Livery Editor, at least to the level of the one Eutechnyx came up with for their games, could be in GT6. This is one example of how GT6 would still be better, while getting something similar to tide us over in GT5.

GT5 is SONY's money maker right now, so it makes sense for its appeal to remain high for at least two more years, so they can rake in the much needed cash. Whether we'll see GT6 on PS3 or 4, that's up to the Master to decide.

The only reason I can see that GT6 wouldn't be released within the next year and a half (or thereabouts) is if PD intentionally held it back to release it on a system that hasn't even been announced yet. A system whose hardware would not be finalized at this point (which means they wouldn't have any way of knowing its capabilities), whose hardware will most likely be drastically different from that of the PS3 (which means they would probably have to scrap a lot of the work they've done anyway), and whose launch is still years away (and there is nothing PD could do to the game to make people in general hold interest in GT5 that long).

Actually, they wouldn't have to scrap any work on different hardware. Entire games have been ported from 360 to the much different PS3, and the only reason they sometimes don't look as good is because the developer didn't bother to optimize the game for the PS3's unusual architecture.

True, it would probably be better to start from scratch on many things, on the code side. Models and art assets are simple to port. But you can port a lot of code straight across to other platforms while tweaking things to fit into the different architecture, and they will work well. And remember that SONY's developer partners are going to be working with them on the development of the PS4 architecture, OS and tools, so there won't be quite the learning curve this time. Mostly, a lot of readily available power which can bring forth better physics, better graphics, and games which can live up to the developer's imaginations more easily.

But as for people losing interest in GT5 any time soon, it doesn't look like it's happening, and I don't expect it to until GT6 rolls around. Just look at the activity on this board. A lot of complainers have moved on to other games, and there are still thousands of people coming in here every day.

In my opinion, Prologue was large enough to consider a Gran Turismo PS3 game.

I was going to say this too. Live For Speed costs almost $50, and it's a little game made by three or so guys.

 

[daus26]

@ Tenacious D, I like your points, but

1. Basically, your reasons are that PD is gonna be afraid of looking inferior to Turn 10? That's the last thing they should be worried about. As you say, PD is the one trying to cram more things into the game. Unless you see Turn 10 trying to cram as much things as PD, they can't be comparable. PD have already shown at this point what the PS3 is more capable of than the Xbox360, otherwise I'm sure Turn 10 would've done time change and weather if they could. Turn 10 played the safe side by not including any of GT's more ambitious features. The reason why GT5 didn't get so much attention is because the features weren't utilized to its best. We barely even had events that had it.

In terms of how it looks, I'm fine with it. I mean, racing the 24HR Nurb. was one of the best experiences I've ever had in a racing game. And who knows, they may or may not be able to optimize it a bit more.

2. That's easy to say. Sure, people will buy GT6, but the problem will be once they play it. If we've seen so many things that were bought off from the DLC, people will be wanting to see something new. In short time, I'm willing to bet many of us will be requesting for more DLCs short after if this is the case. Imagine if GT5 only adds little in terms of content that GT5 had? GT5 will be almost like just a small extension with a new way to play. Again, imagine driving the same cars and tracks to death, only to be experiencing it again in GT6, with nothing new or little to look for, AND depending on DLC?

3. We can't assume how easy it'll be for developers to port their work from the PS3 into the PS4 as easy as you say. However, it'll certainly be a great thing, and I'm confident that it will too. I just don't think it'll be exactly as simple as you say. Unless it's the same cell, with just more RAM, there will have to be a bit of work-around to optimize it, and that can only be done if the PS4's architecture is finalized. And of course, most likely, it's not going to be the same cell.

As for GT5, I agree because personally, I'd be content with it for quiet a bit longer more, but if I'm gonna have to wait until the PS4 is released, depend and spend a lot of money on DLC, then having to get one a brand new PS4 just to play the next GT.... it's just something that I'd rather just get GT6 for the PS3, and get the PS4 for the next GT in the time that is not so close around launch time. I guess you can say that I'm pretty confident that GT6 on the PS3 will satisfy me enough. Of course, I don't know about others.

 

[vandaliser]

GT5 was a revolution. GT6 on the ps3 would be just an evolution of sorts. And while some people may be satisfied with that, i want another revolution and only new hardware is capable of giving PD that vision.

Tenacious killing it as per usual

@ daus,

using the same architecture as the celll next gen would make the next GT game alot easier to code for PD. You are using the same coding and edge tools albeit with more headway and horse power.

It's a lot different from moving from the ps2 to the ps3 where developers had to start from scratch

 

[Snaeper]

The problem is that the PS3 is a high definition game system, and everyone expected a better looking game than Prologue, not one that looked worse.

I thought it looked better. /opinion But that's just my opinion.

But because of all the hype of the PS3's amazing graphic capability, and what MS was able to pull off in Forza - albeit with a ton of cash invested, GT6 has to look markedly better, or PD will be seen as throwing in the towel and settling for second best, which I can assure you they will not do.

You can assure us? PD has said and proven in the past that they do what they do and really don't look too hard at what the competition is doing. I like that approach. You seem to be implying that they're studying ever single move Forza makes and trying to counter it which is clearly not the case or we would've had the greatest livery editor of all time with GT5's release.

Saying that "pushing the hardware is trumping the actual gameplay" is kind of a bad statement.

I don't think it is. If they had all the content of GT5 and what was supposed to be in GT5 and what we WANT to be in GT5... yet put it in a game with GT2 era graphics... well I'd certainly still enjoy it. GT5 Looks great, wait to improve on the next title for the PS4, make another game on the PS3 and focus PURELY on the gaming mechanics, that way when you do release a title on the PS4, you have a great game and great graphics to back it up.

But no, sublime graphics are something that goes hand in glove with a game to enhance the experience.

Opinion.

Because of GT5 and 4ZA, now I expect every racer to have near-realistic graphics, and I expct every developer to want them.

I fixed that for you. (Because for a second there you sounded like you know what's going on at the head of every video game studio and production company at this date and time and that's pretty unlikely).

PD hasn't made any such statement like you assert. Rather, between what Kaz himself and some SCE spokespeople have said, we can expect a gob more goodies in GT5 over the coming year at least. In fact, Kaz basically said, "If we can put it into GT5, we will. If not, we'll save it for GT6." Now maybe that's just cars, tracks and a lot of Special Events, but we don't know.

No, we don't know. So why everyone is expecting more, rather than less (The DLC has disappointed everyone with it's car selection for example) is rather silly. I'm expecting the next DLC to have more TC/RM type cars, MAYBE some new real cars and even less paint and gear. I'm not going to expect huge-game features to come for a few bucks and cheap and I'll tell you why I wont in a minute.

As for how this would hurt the appeal of GT6, I doubt much at all. Just about everyone who bought GT5 will buy GT6, no matter how much extra stuff is loaded into GT5. Because GT6 will be a better game. When you build something with all the features included from the start, it's more stable, more complete, more fluid and feels less "pasted in," and generally works better. 3D might not work as well if it was patched in. And I wouldn't doubt that if something is "just too good," it'll be reserved for GT6, but I don't expect much of that.

Wow, really? You just completely sank your own argument for making content as DLC for GT5. I would rather have all of the content that you keep thinking is going to be GT5 DLC on a finished game out of a box instead. Add in cars and tracks and you have GT6, call me happy.

GT5 is SONY's money maker right now, so it makes sense for its appeal to remain high for at least two more years, so they can rake in the much needed cash. Whether we'll see GT6 on PS3 or 4, that's up to the Master to decide.

Here's where the elaborate feature-adding GT5 DLC plan falls flat. Why would Sony try to market DLC to a consumer base that's playing a game that's been out for a year? Sure the people that are playing are the GT diehards that will most likely snatch up the DLC, but they'll lose all of those casual gamers that love games but don't follow everything like we do here on GTPLanet. They don't know that there's GT5 DLC so they don't buy it. Instead, Sony could take the lessons they learned, make GT6 and get it on a much better start with the added content, and have all the new features that people have been wanting already sorted out and ready to go in the game the second they put it in the system. Now they've made a lot more money than they would've simply trying to sell Feature DLC to the people who are left playing a game a year after it's release. Car and track DLC would proceed as normal.

But as for people losing interest in GT5 any time soon, it doesn't look like it's happening, and I don't expect it to until GT6 rolls around. Just look at the activity on this board. A lot of complainers have moved on to other games, and there are still thousands of people coming in here every day.

It may not look like it here on gtplanet, but that's a bad way to gauge it (With only 200 thousand members on a site that celebrates a game that's sold millions of copies it's actually a terrible way to guage it since far less than half of those members are active). Fewer of my friends are playing GT5 every time I log on, and as much as we may hate complainers, they've purchased the game and now they're not playing it either, that's fewer wallets to feed the GT5 DLC machine. I can only imagine how many people who don't come on gtplanet that are not playing either.

 

[another_jakhole]

I thought it looked better. /opinion

So Tenacious D doesn't get the benefit of the doubt? You're taking him too literally.

Just because he didn't say it, doesn't mean all of his statements are meant to be taken as "fact".

Do you really want us to point out your statements that sound like facts?

Fewer of my friends are playing GT5 every time I log on

Coooool. Good observation.

 

[Snaeper]

So Tenacious D doesn't get the benefit of the doubt? You're taking him too literally.

I clarified what I meant and of course he gets the benefit of the doubt. I'm not a malicious person that's attacking him saying "You're wrong, everything you say and do is wrong!" I'm attacking his argument.

Why wouldn't I take him literally? Are you implying that he's joking? Since all I have to go off is words, of course I'm taking him literally.

Just because he didn't say it, doesn't mean all of his statements are meant to be taken as "fact".

Do you really want us to point out your statements that sound like facts?

Just because he didn't say what? If he speaks factually then I will take them as fact. When he can provide evidence to his statements that strengthens what he's said then I will surely believe him. Until then all he's provided is a very very strongly worded (and well thought out!) opinion. As have I.

If you want to point out any of my statements that might be worded factually, I would be happy to either provide evidence, correct you if you're wrong or openly admit that I did state something as fact with nothing to go off of.

Coooool. Good observation.

I admit that my friends list is initially a weak comparison, but it's filled with a larger vareity of people than gtplanet is. gtplanet is full of passionate people about the game that come here even when a Gran Turismo game hasn't been released in 5 years. Since the account I play on is strictly used for GT, everyone I met was on that game. And since I've been playing and making friends with people since the game was released, I've noticed that fewer and fewer come on to play GT. Even the guys who have "GTP_" in their gamertags, in my opinion, that is a better group of people to gauge who is and isn't playing GT than the members on a website that is active regardless.

 

[Tornado]

PD hasn't made any such statement like you assert.

Taken as a whole in regards to GT Life, Kaz's statements (including that rather poignant one last week regarding the future of the game) are basically "we didn't put enough events in the game, and we are sorry, and if we could do everything again we would do it differently."

What part of that makes you believe that they are going to touch the GT Life mode when they haven't done anything to it since the game came out, not even with their massive "based on fan wants and to counter Forza hype" patch? I'm not saying they won't, but why should I believe that they will to the extent that I should want them to do that rather than just buy a new game where they will have to it.

A Livery Editor on the scale of what Forza offers might be as much work as their damage implementation, maybe less, but what we might get is a more simple Livery Template with regions we can paint in, to which we can add decals and sponsors, a racing plaque appropriate to some real or fantasy league, a driver name "typer," race car number choice, and national flags we can stick on the car where we chose. And something like this could work for the Standard cars as well. Then the real full blown Livery Editor, at least to the level of the one Eutechnyx came up with for their games, could be in GT6. This is one example of how GT6 would still be better, while getting something similar to tide us over in GT5.

This is the game where PD took "fix the crappy paint system" to mean "put one-time-use paint chips up as DLC." I have to imagine any hope for an actual livery editor of any sort in GT5 after PD pulled that crap is purely pie-in-the-sky.

But because of all the hype of the PS3's amazing graphic capability, and what MS was able to pull off in Forza - albeit with a ton of cash invested, GT6 has to look markedly better, or PD will be seen as throwing in the towel and settling for second best, which I can assure you they will not do.

Leaving GT5 to rot and spending half a decade working on a game that they repeatedly said wouldn't take long to make (while other games in the genre continue to advance while they are doing so) would make PD look far worse than releasing GT6 with tons of features GT5 will never have and having it only look marginally better/the same as a consequence. And more likely than not, it would lead to the same feature creep that GT5 suffers so badly from plaguing GT6.

As for how this would hurt the appeal of GT6, I doubt much at all. Just about everyone who bought GT5 will buy GT6, no matter how much extra stuff is loaded into GT5.

Unless they have to buy new hardware to do it if it becomes clear there was no reason for the game to be on it.

GT5 is SONY's money maker right now, so it makes sense for its appeal to remain high for at least two more years

What exactly can PD do to keep appeal of GT5 up when it has been bleeding players for months now (and it has, even on this board)? Let alone keep it up for years like you seem to think they can do?



The casual gamers that make up so much of GT's sales will move on to other things rather than hope PD drip feeds tracks and cars (especially if they continue to ignore the obvious/silly problems like they have), particularly when GT5's DLC is as much of a mess in its implementation as it is.

Actually, they wouldn't have to scrap any work on different hardware. Entire games have been ported from 360 to the much different PS3, and the only reason they sometimes don't look as good is because the developer didn't bother to optimize the game for the PS3's unusual architecture.

And developers of PS360 ports know what the PS360 architecture is when they are developing ports and tend to design their games with that in mind. PD at this point is designing a highly-optimized game on PS3 development hardware and basically have to hope that at least some of the stuff they are working on would be salvageable for hardware that won't be out for years and almost certainly won't follow the same design ideals (both because the CELL was a mess to program for and because it was a technological dead-end).

But as for people losing interest in GT5 any time soon, it doesn't look like it's happening, and I don't expect it to until GT6 rolls around. Just look at the activity on this board.

The activity on this board is no more indicative of the gaming populace at large than an AmigaOS fan board is for computer users at large, and the only reason the activity on this board is staying relatively consistent is because it is the same small group of members going at it.

You're a Premo member. You've seen how dead the V.I.P. forum has been since June or so, and Spec II only revitalized it for about 2 weeks (and even then it was mostly just to make jokes about it).

Do you really want us to point out your statements that sound like facts?

Go for it. If people would force others to justify their opinions more often perhaps actual debate would be able to occur in this section of GTP.

Coooool. Good observation.

I hope you aren't saying he's wrong, because I've seen nothing to suggest that he is.

 

[vandaliser]

mess to develop for? what's this? year 2007?

 

[Tenacious D]

@daus,

I'm deriving my assessment of Polyphony based on my understanding of the Japanese mindset, and Orientals in general. These are the people who have kids who will commit suicide if they don't have a 4.0 average. In middle school!

While the Oriental culture is all about humility, courtesy and politeness, they're also fiercely competitive, at least concerning ideals. Everyone wants to be perfect, behave perfectly and make perfect stuff. Kaz anguishes over every GT game they produce because he's not just in competition with the other developers, but against his own perfect dream racer. They're used to the acclaim lauded them over every GT release - and true no Gran Turismo will ever score 100. But with many, GT games are held to be one of the pinnacle racers in all genres. GT5 wasn't quite as well received by critics, and this has been the first GT game Kaz has apologized for a number of times.

And in the case of Forza, I know some get rather irritated when I say this, but Turn 10 and Microsoft basically took the entire concept of Gran Turismo rather than spend the time to come up with something unique. As with almost everything Microsoft does, they copy what's successful, and no racer is as successful as Gran Turismo. And this is something Kaz and the team have no doubt taken personally. Between these two factors, it's my opinion that they will fuel the ambitions to make GT6 much greater and more perfect.

As for Snaeper and Toronado,

I fixed that for you. (Because for a second there you sounded like you know what's going on at the head of every video game studio and production company at this date and time and that's pretty unlikely).

And...

No, we don't know. So why everyone is expecting more, rather than less (The DLC has disappointed everyone with it's car selection for example)

Ahem. Speaking as if you know what everyone thinks?

Apparently it's doing so well - the Touring Car DLC mind you, that Kaz made the effort to get SONY to permit him to make it available in the Dealerships for multiple purchases in December. If no one wanted it, I doubt he'd waste his time on it.

While some of your points are plausible, others are not. On graphics, you and I both would have bought GT4 HD, and so would hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps millions hungry for a next gen GT game. It's hard to say what the gaming public's reaction would be to something like that.

But lookit, even with Prologue looking just about photo-real, critics and many fans made a point to remark on how bad the shadows looked, and that they needed to be fixed. The shadows in GT5 look worse. The particle effects mess up everything, not just cars as I mentioned above. There is at least as much slowdown and more screen tearing, and this has been a point of contention with many, even fans who adore the game. So can you imagine the flaming that would result if GT5 looked like a PS2 game in HD? PC sims for years now have been criticized for similar graphics looking terrible. From the way some critics put it, you'd think these racers looked like early Genesis games.

If you think graphics don't matter, that's certainly an opinion that isn't widely shared. If rFactor 2 looked the same as rF1, you can bet the graphics would be scored as Poor to Bad. You're not going to find that the PS4, XBox370 or whatever with graphics that are anything but a big step up in quality. ATi isn't going to scale back on graphic card development and either leave the state of their GPUs the same or trimmed back. Calling them "green cards" sure won't help. No video game without high quality graphics on anything but the Wii will be considered worthwhile by critics or gamers. Or as fun. They add to the immersion, they enhance satisfaction, and you can say otherwise all you want, but almost no one will agree with you. Sure, I love my Genesis and SNES and will play them from time to time, and in some cases, the gameplay is still superior. But those graphics are still cheezy, and I enjoy them simply for nostalgia's sake. I sure wouldn't pay $50 for a new game with those graphics.

As for the issue of DLC, this is a moot point. Most games have a great demand for DLC, and it feeds the gamers for a year to three after a game is released. And in many cases, in just about all cases in series, there will still be sequels. The DLC doesn't hurt the sequel's chances, sometimes it causes problems requiring patches - look at some of GT5's updates. The only effect that GT5 DLC will have on GT6 is buying Polyphony time to work on the sequel, even though most or all of the DLC will be in GT6. Every sequel stands or falls on its own merits, and has nothing to do with how much DLC adds to the previous game.

As for what DLC will mean for GT5, who knows? But what did it mean for Prologue? Have you guys forgotten that the entire online structure came about because of an update? A Livery Editor? It can happen, even something simple like a series of templates is better than nothing, and what we have now is basically one template which we can paint one region of. Better damage, slightly better graphics? Anything is possible. I don't know what Kaz has in mind for GT5, but I wouldn't rule anything out.

As for how interested the gaming public still is in GT5, amar212 has mentioned that it's apparently still quite strong. He said that one year after GT5's release, there are consistently tens of thousands of online racers, which he said is rare for online games. I expect GT5 to sell tons this holiday season, and next.

As for whatever platform GT6 ends up on, that's Kaz's decision. We'll buy it and race it, and if it's on PS4, we'll buy that too. Most of us. And most likely it'll be a Platinum level pre-seller as Prologue and GT5 were. And while a GT6 Prologue isn't really necessary with GT5 around, we still might see one. And it too will sell like tacos.

 

[daus26]

@Tenacious D

I know what you mean, and I can't say I don't agree with their level of competitiveness. What I'm trying to say is, apart from a "better" metacritic score, I don't think Kaz should be, or is, in the dark thinking that the other game is better than his. For one, GT5 is the game with more features and more advanced technical achievements. If you look at its best aspect, it can simulate weather and time in a 24 hour cycle. Apart from that, it has really good physics, the option for 3D (even if it means little), option to race more styles of racing, ability to create random tracks (even if limited), and different types of gravel. Graphics-wise, Forza 4 looks good, but GT5 offers the more realistic look, although track details in FM4 are seemingly better. Basically, if you look at the achievements between the two games, GT5 achieved more. But credits to Turn 10, they made a better "game." Imagine if PDI utilizied everything that they've achieved in GT5 better, plus the additional features yet to be revealed for GT6?

Also, if they're competitive, wouldn't you think that they want to play on fair grounds, and make GT6 for this generation, rather than using next gen power to up the competition?

 

[Tornado]

mess to develop for? what's this? year 2007?

both because the CELL was a mess to program for

Don't know what the definition of "was" is? What's this? Year 1507?

They're used to the acclaim lauded them over every GT release - and true no Gran Turismo will ever score 100. But with many, GT games are held to be one of the pinnacle racers in all genres. GT5 wasn't quite as well received by critics, and this has been the first GT game Kaz has apologized for a number of times.

Last I checked, GT PSP was received considerably worse.

Apparently it's doing so well - the Touring Car DLC mind you, that Kaz made the effort to get SONY to permit him to make it available in the Dealerships for multiple purchases in December. If no one wanted it, I doubt he'd waste his time on it.

Or, you know, the huge negative reaction to the greedy way it was implemented forced PD's hand to try to salvage any future DLC sales.

But lookit, even with Prologue looking just about photo-real, critics and many fans made a point to remark on how bad the shadows looked, and that they needed to be fixed. The shadows in GT5 look worse. The particle effects mess up everything, not just cars as I mentioned above. There is at least as much slowdown and more screen tearing, and this has been a point of contention with many, even fans who adore the game.

Are we talking about the same fanbase? At what point did this changeover in reaction happen?

Every sequel stands or falls on its own merits, and has nothing to do with how much DLC adds to the previous game.

Oh? And when did this become true?

As for what DLC will mean for GT5, who knows? But what did it mean for Prologue?

You see, I'm finding it hard to take these arguments at face value when the exact opposite of each one has been argued ad nauseam in PD's defense for the past six months.


GT5 is the best looking racing game available, period, and all problems with it should be ignored because they are justified by the game's feature set (or that they don't even exist); but if GT6 is going to be on PS4 than the PS3 is putting a major hinder on Kaz's "vision." Forza 4 is a waste of money to buy because a lot of the content in it was DLC for Forza 3; but GT5 needs to be supported as much as possible with DLC so GT6 is even better. GT5 cannot be held to the same standards of what PD will add to the game with Spec updates because GT5 was a different game; but we should expect the same kind of dedication for GT5 anyway.

Which one is it?

Have you guys forgotten that the entire online structure came about because of an update? A Livery Editor? It can happen, even something simple like a series of templates is better than nothing, and what we have now is basically one template which we can paint one region of. Better damage, slightly better graphics? Anything is possible.

Anything is possible. Now, once again:

I'm not saying they won't, but why should I believe that they will to the extent that I should want them to do that rather than just buy a new game where they will have to it.

You keep saying we should want PD to hold off GT6 until PS4 and focus on making GT5 everything it should have been. WHY should we want that over just having GT6? Is GT6 going to be the last GT game ever, precluding the chance to ever have one on PS4?

The only effect that GT5 DLC will have on GT6 is buying Polyphony time to work on the sequel

Time they've repeatedly said they didn't need.

As for how interested the gaming public still is in GT5, amar212 has mentioned that it's apparently still quite strong. He said that one year after GT5's release, there are consistently tens of thousands of online racers, which he said is rare for online games.

Not particularly for games with sales nearing 7 million.

 

[brainfade]

So basically Tenacious D, by saying you based your findings (which you like to pass off as facts) on what you think is "Japanese mindset", this + your brief description, you based your findings, or shall i say opinions on what can only be descrived as negative stereotyping which is also racist. Also, the term "orientals" refers to the Chinese, more stereotyping you're on a roll aren't you? I'm guessing your one of those people who think that ALL asians have what you call "slanty eyes"?

Back to the discussion with people who don't stereotype to the very edge of being racist. You're forgetting that PD had to more or less redo the whole game after a catastrophic error which caused the original delay in the games release which was followed by Polyphony simply forgetting to meet the deadline to provide the master code to be burnt to discs.

As for the whole FM4 vs GT5 arguement, don't base anything on what you read in reviews or the review score themselves, because, as confirmed by my friends at another developer which used to do racing games, Turn 10 along with Atari/Ubisoft and EA are notorious for bribing magazines for high review scores, you should consider the following before you make this comparison:

- Copies sold.
- Revenue generated.
- Race drivers produced as a result of playing the game.

You can't honestly say that FM4 can produce a competitive race drive who will go on to win his class in the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup and finish 2nd in class at Le Mans 24hrs, nor can you say that any prolific race driver frequently plays without being paid to do so? A few Le Mans drivers have been known to use GT to practice for Le Mans when the track is closed (three of them I know myself personally), they could have used Forza because it too features Le Mans but they dont... I wonder why...

As for GT6, it has been said by Yamauchi that GT5 is like the operating system for any further games just as GT1 was for GT2 and GT3 was for GT4. I think that is an obvious hint, unless he has stated otherwise since.

As for the smoke-pixelation issue, it seems to be a problem with both current consoles which is hard to overcome, even GTA IV suffers from the problem, but not as badly as GT5 does.

Disappointed with DLC? Let me put something into perspective for you, Update 2.0 had the Schulz Nissan and 11 NASCARs that + the pay-DLC: 15 cars and 2 tracks as well as some paints and gear. So including 2.0, we got 26 cars and 2 tracks for £9.49 or $11.99, other developers would make you pay that much for barely a quarter or a fifth of that content.

Finally, Tenacious D, not only do you seem to think your opinion is fact but you also make of points without even citing any sources, you think PD should put all the content that is meant for GT6 into GT5?

Do you know how the business of video games work? Are you aware that games cost millions to develop?.

Are you aware that developers AND publishers who pay for it need to make a profit rather than a loss?

Are you aware that the main way developers and publishers make a profit on the game is to actually sell copies of the thing? ...and before you mention "ingame advertising" you try getting a huge global companies to pay millions to advertise in a game with 10,000+ regular users. It's already failed for Ubisoft and Activision.

If you've got a game thats already doing the rounds with 10,000+ strong online users, why on earth would you update a game to its sequel with the relevant content and engine fixes just to those 10,000+ and make a loss?

Common sense tells you to keep those 10,000+ active while and engaged with regular updates and DLC whilst developing a sequel which will draw in a similar level of sales to the current version, maybe more.

*disclaimer: I do not mean to flame you there Tenacious D, I am generally offended by your description of "Japanese mindset" and ridiculous stereotyping.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Dear, GT6. I know you're still an unborn fetus, but I do hope that on your day of birth, that you better represent cars from different parts of the world. Sweden isn't just about Volvo or Saab anymore. Koenigsegg would like to be noticed. Without Porsche, RUF is our closest relative. Please, unborn GT6, keep RUF current. Having models from 2000 would be fit if we were in....2000-2004. It is 2011 and will likely be at least 2013 when you're due to enter this world, and that's probably a stretch of the imagination. Also, unborn GT6, I do hope your list of European and American cars increase some. Japan has great cars, and we realize this. But don't forget about the rest of us. We ARE the biggest buyers of your games. These are just a few of my hopes for you, baby GT6.

Hugs and kisses, CorvettConquer.

 

[Tornado]

You're forgetting that PD had to more or less redo the whole game after a catastrophic error which caused the original delay in the games release which was followed by Polyphony simply forgetting to meet the deadline to provide the master code to be burnt to discs.

[citation needed]

As for the whole FM4 vs GT5 arguement, don't base anything on what you read in reviews or the review score themselves, because, as confirmed by my friends at another developer which used to do racing games, Turn 10 along with Atari/Ubisoft and EA are notorious for bribing magazines for high review scores,

[citation needed]

you should consider the following before you make this comparison:

- Copies sold.
- Revenue generated.
- Race drivers produced as a result of playing the game.

-Meaningless for this Discussion.
-Meaningless for this Discussion.
-Meaningless for this Discussion.

You can't honestly say that FM4 can produce a competitive race drive who will go on to win his class in the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup and finish 2nd in class at Le Mans 24hrs, nor can you say that any prolific race driver frequently plays without being paid to do so? A few Le Mans drivers have been known to use GT to practice for Le Mans when the track is closed (three of them I know myself personally), they could have used Forza because it too features Le Mans but they dont... I wonder why...

[citation needed]

Disappointed with DLC? Let me put something into perspective for you, Update 2.0 had the Schulz Nissan and 11 NASCARs that + the pay-DLC: 15 cars and 2 tracks as well as some paints and gear. So including 2.0, we got 26 cars and 2 tracks for £9.49 or $11.99, other developers would make you pay that much for barely a quarter or a fifth of that content.

Don't even pretend to say that there was value for money in the way PD released the DLC. Don't even pretend.

Finally, Tenacious D, not only do you seem to think your opinion is fact but you also make of points without even citing any sources

Common sense tells you to keep those 10,000+ active while and engaged with regular updates and DLC whilst developing a sequel which will draw in a similar level of sales to the current version, maybe more.

Common sense tells you that when you make outlandish, borderline conspiracy theory claims that you back them up with a bit more than "I totally know people who told me that is true, for real."


I'll remind you of the AUP:

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Before you bother posting in this thread again, I want legitimate sources for all of the things you claimed above.

 

[brainfade]

Common sense tells you that when you make outlandish, borderline conspiracy theory claims that you back them up with a bit more than "I totally know people who told me that is true, for real."[/color][/b][/font]

1) Have a look through the GTP news archive regarding Kaz's comments about GT5 being the operating system for GT6, and the delays etc.

2) Go speak to Tom Kristiensen, Caspar Elgaard, Guy Smith, Tom Chilton and Johnny O'Connel to ask them what game they use out of convenience to practice Le Mans when the circuit is closed, then ask Jaime Melo and Sebastian Bourdais how much they were paid to front Forza and Joey Hand how much EA paid him to release nonsense relating to Shift 2.

3) Go ask PSM magazine's entire staff about the backhanders seeing as they love receiving them so often, on a serious note ask actual games developers.

4) "Don't even pretend" ...that's just your own cynical American opinion.

5) Common sense tells us that you really have too much time (especially as you took a whopping 23mins to construct that post) on your hands to be bothered to elaborately troll-quote like that and obviously don't know how any form of business works. I am fully aware AUP, none of my info is incorrect, now you go chase up those sources before YOU post in this thread again, because I know your the type of person to actually go and do it.

- EDIT -

Everyone's taking this thread too seriously, time for a timeout:

 

[Tornado]

1) Have a look through the GTP news archive regarding Kaz's comments about GT5 being the operating system for GT6, and the delays etc.

2) Go speak to Tom Kristiensen, Caspar Elgaard, Guy Smith, Tom Chilton and Johnny O'Connel to ask them what game they use out of convenience to practice Le Mans when the circuit is closed, then ask Jaime Melo and Sebastian Bourdais how much they were paid to front Forza and Joey Hand how much EA paid him to release nonsense relating to Shift 2.

3) Go ask PSM magazine's entire staff about the backhanders seeing as they love receiving them so often, on a serious note ask actual games developers.

4) "Don't even pretend" ...that's just your own cynical American opinion.

5) Common sense tells us that you really have too much time (especially as you took a whopping 23mins to construct that post) on your hands to be bothered to elaborately troll-quote like that and obviously don't know how any form of business works. I am fully aware AUP, none of my info is incorrect, now you go chase up those sources before YOU post in this thread again, because I know your the type of person to actually go and do it.

...


There are no words.




I will point out one particular piece of idiocy for your benefit, though:

3) Go ask PSM magazine's entire staff about the backhanders seeing as they love receiving them so often, on a serious note ask actual games developers.

I'm quite curious about how PSM would have experience regarding backroom review bribing with Turn 10.

 

[brainfade]

...


There are no words. I will point out one particular piece of idiocy for your benefit, though:



I'm quite curious about how PSM would have experience regarding backroom review bribing with Turn 10.

Thats what I thought, goodbye troll.

 

[Tornado]

I'd still like an explanation for how PSM (which is a Playstation-only magazine) would know about Turn 10 bribing people for good reviews.


And I want it now, or you will be reported.

 

[brainfade]

I'd still like an explanation for how PSM (which is a Playstation-only magazine) would know about Turn 10 bribing people for good reviews.


And I want it now, or you will be reported.

Wow, a threat to report a comment, really, I'm flattered.

You seemed to have mistaken my jibe referencing 'Drivergate' as a point, either that or you are deliberately taking it out of context to satisfy your own ego. You're sitting there with a smirk on your face thinking "yeah I really showed him"...

Firstly, PSM would know about it because the magazine is processed in the same building, on the same floor as various other magazines, by the same staff as they are under Future Publishing, the same Publisher which brings us Games Master, who incidentally publish a plethora of official magazines.

Secondly, I wasn't mentioning them for you to ask, although if you really want to go that far how about finding the editor Daniel Dawkins on Facebook (his existence is public knowledge, therefore not against the AUP), asking him how much he accepted from Atari and see how quickly he blocks you.

PSM and their publisher Future, are known for accepting bribes from alot of developers, it trails back to when they accepted money from Atari to give Driver 3 a score of 90% on PS2, it's sister magazine for XBOX also did something similar and it was by no means the first time it had happened, bribes are pretty common practice when it comes to big money publishers having games reviewed, publishers want to go that extra mile to ensure they see the returns from their investment, there, happy bunny now? Did you learn something new today?