LAN Play option: Going the way of the floppy disc?

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Sorry I did miss your point.

I do agree with your comments. The downside to online gaming is it doesn't matter how fast your connection is, distance between players will be a factor. Im lucky because I have a large number of friends who will be buying GT5 and all live locally. A good example of how distance can be a factor is by testing your ping. If I ping my connection to a local server the results are around 15m/s. However if do this test to a server in New York its over 100m/s. This distance is even more noticeable on FPS games like MW2.

So in summary aslong as the host has a good upload connection and the players you're playing against are local i.e same country then you shouldn't experience too many problems. This is why I feel sorry for gamers in Australia because playing online against the world can be a nightmare due to very high ping levels.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Hmmmm. Can you prove those stats? Don't make me drag the AUP into this now.

give or take a few zeros, of course!

 

[01GTP]

I'm sure I'm only .0000000000whatever of the GT players out there but I LAN race about 5 hours a week (GT4) and play GT5P for up to 4 hours and hardly ever race online.

But that's me.

Oh yeah, and I'm old.

 

[Shinu]

Well I myself am from Lithuania (im shore most of you can get better connection because our country is quite poor). My my local connection is 100mbs local and 25 for other countries. I played with people from USA/EU it doesn't matter. Yeah its not 1:1but there is no problem racing believe me PC sims also use P2P.

Keep in mind that prologue was just a test for PD. They say they have separate online team now so it will be ok.

At the end of the day if we will be able to host our own rooms, 100% there will be groups of people from GTP that know what they are doing (there setups are right).

Now its just bunch of random people 70% of which only know how to turn on the ps3 and launch a game (while using dial up). And those who wanna play online seriously should forget wifi (for now).


Remember the fact that in teory you only have to send/recieve x,y,z every frame for other 15 cars and the physic engine does the rest (same as it does for AI).

So its:

15*3*60*(we dont know what scale PD uses) and its in bites

We can optimize it :

1) you can send it to the cars that are visible
2) you can send your distance from them (that way coordinate length would be relatively small )

Of course there are things like weather and day time, but that only depends on host connection (because he will be sending the data)

Damage and things like that are sent only when there is difference comparing to the latest info.

In pc sims there are latency settings :

less latency - more accuracy but requires faster internet speed
more latency - other way around

 

[drivatar]

There are 6 degrees of freedom for a single rigid body.
Let's assume every coordinate has a resolution of 32bit, the 15 other cars are the only objects and you send the status 60 times per second:

6*32*15*60=172.8kbit/s (2 times for up and downstream)

Additionally you might want to transfer speed and acceleration, each for up to 6 degrees of freedom, to make interpolation more reliable and other things like steering angle, movement of suspension, rev, gear, damage, ...

But bandwidth isn't usually the problem, latency is. And that is limited by processing time in routers and the speed of light.

 

[dbarrade]

I've played plenty of LAN games, I have two copies of GT3, Concept and GT4, a iLink hub and a switch.

But there is no way I'm taking my 52' TV anywhere, so that's the end of taking my Playstation to friends places, and pretty much the end of LAN play for me.

 

[Shinu]

My point is. Netplay can be really good if its done right. Knowing that seperate team is working on it. I think it will be ok. + They can get help from other PS3 devs (because GT is a bigest first party title for sony)

 

[new_soul]

Lan is good, but the problem the ppl who want to play lan, dont have m8's nearby, so we all end up using the internet.

Devs who dont include lan in their games are failing to make the most of the game, its not a tec milestone, acording to one uk dev its the same online code, just with a extra line to seperate the sesion from the internet and make it local..

UPDATE: Im not so concerned about Lan disappearing, i think it newer will, its so easy to impliment it in a game which already has online..

I have this 'evil gready publishers theory' more and more games dont have split scream, multi screan, and lan is also being taken out of games, its a move that prevents m8's come over and play on one console and one game copy, that way ppl who are willing to play with their m8's need to buy a console and a game, i dont exactly understand why lan is taken out of games, it cold be becous they think nobody needs that an becous they want the extra 1% who wold like to play lan, to go online, to ensure they did everything to get max ppl possible in to their online game.

 

[jjaisli]

But there is no way I'm taking my 52' TV anywhere, so that's the end of taking my Playstation to friends places, and pretty much the end of LAN play for me.

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat. But it can be done. I know a guy who spends 2 months of the year 'on-the-road' visiting clients and a lot of boring nights in motels. So he takes his PS3, G25 and a small LCD monitor with him for nightly entertainment. He can set the thing up and take it down in minutes. It's actually impressive to watch. 👍

My point is. Netplay can be really good if its done right. Knowing that seperate team is working on it. I think it will be ok. + They can get help from other PS3 devs (because GT is a bigest first party title for sony)

Yes. And I hope they do because I intend to spend a lot of time racing on-line with GT5. Will they make an online system that's better than any other PS3 game out there? I hope so. If Prologue is anything to go by, they have a LONG way to go. Somehow there's a prevailing attitude that "Hey, it's PD, it's GT, they'll do it right." But MY point is, no matter what they do, no matter how many resources they pour into it, the lag and latency will never, ever be as trouble free as it is in closed LAN environment because we're talking about technical limitations which are completely out of their control. Most people, including myself will play on-line most of the time. But I just hope they make the LAN option available for those in a position to take advantage of it.

Lan is good, but the problem the ppl who want to play lan, dont have m8's nearby, so we all end up using the internet.

Devs who dont include lan in their games are failing to make the most of the game, its not a tec milestone, acording to one uk dev its the same online code, just with a extra line to seperate the sesion from the internet and make it local..

Right on brother! 👍

UPDATE: Im not so concerned about Lan disappearing, i think it newer will, its so easy to impliment it in a game which already has online..

No? Well I am. And that's why I started this thread. There's no such option in SSV8, none in SSV8:NC, none in Prologue, none in NFS:Shift...and none SO FAR announced in GT5...

 

[andyzim]

hi, my first post here in the forums but I felt I had to contribute as it is a subject close to my heart.

Myself and 5 friends meet every thursday night to catch up, have a few drinks and snacks and play racing games. It has been happening for years and years. We all take our PS3 and a 22" LCD screen and set up a LAN. Playing online is great and clearly increasing in popularity all the time, but you can't beat meeting up with your friends face to face and being in the same room during the race. The very poor communication quality over bluetooth headsets in online lobbies and races doesn't help either. Especially when in the middle of a 6 car pack, jostling for position in a braking zone - you can't afford any delay in the delivery of speech to warn your mate you have slipped up on his right etc.

GT4 was the game of choice for a long time until we upgraded to PS3s in anticipation of GT5. In the meantime we have been playing Grid on the LAN. When NFS:Shift came out we were so excited - but it is impossible to play online from the same location.

If GT5 does not include LAN functionality, it will be a great great shame. Hooking up 6 PS3s on the same internet connection to play in an online lobby just does not work in Shift (connection issues or EA servers preventing multiple requests from the same IP, we could never establish why?!) and I don't have much hope that it will be any better in GT5.

I wish we could get someone to ask this question in an interview - it might be more interesting than asking the same question over and over again whenever the opportunity rises (that being - why is it delayed?!)

 

[drivatar]

@andyzim
Sounds great!
Ever tried F1 CE or Ferrari/Supercar Challenge at your events?

 

[MANU56BZH]

I have a question ?
Is it possible now with a new PS3 firmware 3.30 or the one before, to connect 2 ps3 with a simply rj45 cross cable and 2 GT5prologue game (+ 2 tv ofcourse) to play at 2 players in same not online ...ARCADE game ? (with without internet connection )... ??

 

[01GTP]

I have a question ?

I'm not sure if the PS3 is capable, but GT5 Prologue has no menu for that kind of game.

I think you could have 2 PS3's hooked up to a TV that has 2 (or more) HDMI inputs and a split screen option for a 2 player online race, that's about it though.
2 TV's would obviously be better if you had 2.

You can hook up 2 PS3's to transfer the hard drive info though, as in when the blu-ray player dies.
It was a good patch as a lot of blu-rays have broken, including mine just before the patch.

If GT5 does not include LAN functionality, it will be a great great shame. Hooking up 6 PS3s on the same internet connection to play in an online lobby just does not work in Shift (connection issues or EA servers preventing multiple requests from the same IP, we could never establish why?!) and I don't have much hope that it will be any better in GT5.

We know that other games can be played from the same address, I wonder how many PS3's though.

And Welcome to GTPlanet.
P.S. You from around Connecticut by chance!

I would like LAN.

 

[drivatar]

I have a question ?
Is it possible now with a new PS3 firmware 3.30 or the one before, to connect 2 ps3 with a simply rj45 cross cable and 2 GT5prologue game (+ 2 tv ofcourse) to play at 2 players in same not online ...ARCADE game ? (with without internet connection )... ??

It has always been possible but not with GT5P as this game doesn't have a LAN mode.
You must use other games like F1 CE or Supercar Challenge

 

[Mr Latte]

GT5P has already shown networking being possible.

On October 16, 2008, in New York, Polyphony Digital held a anniversary event commemorating the 10th year since the release of the “Gran Turismo” Series.

GT5P was demonstrated in TT mode at an ultra high resolution of 3840 x 2160 pixels. This was performed by connecting and synchronizing four Playstation
3’s outputting a quarter of the image each at 1920x1080 pixels.

So from early on they had an option to let multiple PS3 communicate together with the game.
The 4x video outputs would of been fed into a professional video genlock device to combine the images as one image and project it.

This doesnt mean the full game will include LAN but it might give some of you more hope it has actually been done in the past.

 

[jjaisli]

If the game is finally released WITHOUT a LAN option, it's all the more frustrating because we all know it's potentially possible and likely without much additional coding.

I'm still surprised that they went through such trouble to create a split screen, dual player mode for Prologue, that likely created a lot of time and additional work.

 

[andyzim]

we're on the south coast of england actually. It is awesome fun and I think we will all have a little cry if GT5 hasn't got LAN play or online play that works for all of us in one place.

We've never tried the ferrari/super challenge games. Just desperately missing racing round the full nordschliefe circuit at the moment like we used to in GT4

 

[MANU56BZH]

thank you for your answers, but is it possible to creat a 2 players sescion race with an HUB or a routeur ?
It's like an internet race connexion isnt it ? So the 1st ps3 will found only the scd ps3 connexion normaly ??

It's like if your game be connected to gt5p serveur. not?

 

[Coxis]

thank you for your answers, but is it possible to creat a 2 players sescion race with an HUB or a routeur ?
It's like an internet race connexion isnt it ? So the 1st ps3 will found only the scd ps3 connexion normaly ??

It's like if your game be connected to gt5p serveur. not?

Heheh, serveur . Is that frenchglish? Sorry, that was funny.

That's an interesting idea, but sadly it won't work. The thing is that in order to search for online servers you need to be connected to the playstation network. You can't fool the PS3, sadly.

 

[Mr Latte]

we're on the south coast of england actually. It is awesome fun and I think we will all have a little cry if GT5 hasn't got LAN play or online play that works for all of us in one place.

We've never tried the ferrari/super challenge games. Just desperately missing racing round the full nordschliefe circuit at the moment like we used to in GT4

Andy

Have you guys or has anyone here for that matter got GT4 to work on PS3 on multiple screens. I know it can be done but would of liked help in doing it.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Although I don't work for Sony, I would sure hope (and highly assume) that the LAN will always be an option. If for nothing more than consumers not wanting split screen; sorry but no more Goldeneye if we can avoid it, right? There is such a great aspect to racing in a group live that will never be the same on the internet.

If you had your choice, would you rather go bowling with your friends in real life, or connect to the PS Home and virtually bowl there? Most people would probably want to do it in person. Plus, how easy is it to implement? Pretty easy I'd say since they did it in GT4 and now they have the increased space on a Blu-Ray disc.

I do plan on going to Seattle and San Fran for some LAN racing when GT5 hits us and I have a ton of confidence that PD will accomodate that.

Jerome

 

[DK]

This may sound completely bonkers, but apparently people are actually still buying floppy disks. So comparing LAN to the floppy disk isn't very accurate.

 

[amar212]

I think the LAN wil be there, from many reasons.

One is the series-legacy, because LAN is included in both GT3 and GT4 games (GT3 had it solved through usage of FireWire i400 standard, while GT4 made it through usual CAT5 standard).

Also, LAN is basically needed for multiscreen setup, which both GT3 and GT4 delivered. I think we can safely presume that GT5 will also host multiscreen option, so LAN will definately be there.

Another question is if PD decides to includ it, but block it from the software side (as T10 recently did with FM3 without any particular reason).

 

[Timppaq]

The GT Academy finals must have been LAN as when we changed the rules (put the in-game penalties on) from the early races to the next ones, they just went to the backroom adjusting something (took a few mins to set all up again) and off we went again..

 

[Mr Latte]

The GT Academy finals must have been LAN as when we changed the rules (put the in-game penalties on) from the early races to the next ones, they just went to the backroom adjusting something (took a few mins to set all up again) and off we went again..

If you can confrim it was thats excellent.
Does the following screenshot showing the interface indicate 8 players and even 1 spectator?
Yet only 4 having done a lap?

 

[jjaisli]

Another question is if PD decides to includ it, but block it from the software side (as T10 recently did with FM3 without any particular reason).

Hi Amar--this is something Drivatar pointed out in another thread. One could argue that the LAN option wasn't implemented in Forza 3 simply because they rushed to get the game out and not being an essential feature and without the time to adequately test it, out the window it goes. The same could be said for NFS: Shift. Although I don't know if it was ever a consideration for Shift--just thinking out loud. But it could also be a bit of a worrying trend, in such that the prevailing attitude of developers is, few people use it, so why bother. And as others have mentioned, going forward, fewer and fewer people will take advantage of it, or be in a position to do so.

So this is more or less my worry. I really fancy the idea of one day getting together with a large group of people I race on-line with and sitting down in the same room with our PS3s and wheels in tow, in order to have a completely lag free race.

But everything you say about GT5 makes sense. And I hope it turns out to be true.


EDIT:

The GT Academy finals must have been LAN as when we changed the rules (put the in-game penalties on) from the early races to the next ones, they just went to the backroom adjusting something (took a few mins to set all up again) and off we went again..

Yeah, I suspected as much. Thanks for confirming it. But of course, we all know it's technically possibly. And in fact, not very difficult to do. The question is, WILL they do it and will it actually be a feature in the game.


Wow, apparently people DO still use floppy disks (I haven't in more than 10 years)

 

[drivatar]

The GT Academy finals must have been LAN as when we changed the rules (put the in-game penalties on) from the early races to the next ones, they just went to the backroom adjusting something (took a few mins to set all up again) and off we went again..

That's no proof. It just means they could create custom lobbies.

@jjaisli
Afaik LAN mode was patched into SHIFT post release - however only on the PC.

 

[Timppaq]

The main ps3(I assume it was a ps3) controlled the others so that we could only see black screen and when they were ready they put it on and we all were in same situation.. (adjust settings - not allowed btw) and ready to push "start". May not be confirmation, fair enough, but pretty close.

 

[atteiros]

I'd be really disappointed with no LAN option. The best racing I've had was on LAN with Papyrus' NASCAR a few years back. I just hate it when you join an online league and people keep blinking in and out of a race. It kinda messes the credibility of the results afterwards... "I lost because of lag".

I think a lot of racing game developers are missing out on an opportunity to sell the product by limiting LAN gaming. Getting LAN tournaments sponsored by the developers can increase awareness for the game's credibility across established Sim Racers who may not consider console games, or to casual gamers (or even non-gamers) who are fans of real motorsports. Think of GT Academy tryouts with 10-16 car races and making an event out of it in different localities.

Or even if the developers don't sponsor the event themselves. Say a Racing school or a car manufacturer's event. Having the event on LAN would be a better platform. Having it online has a lot of variables and the only true measure of it online would be time trials and hotlaps.

 

[ralph89]

^ I agree. On LAN race you don't have to worry about cars hitting you from nowhere, and you can show you skills by going a few feet behind your opponent without having to worry about hitting him, because you can measure how far he actually is.