Large day one patch!

[georgetigra]

calm down peoples!!
where is the problem about the patch ??

 

[Spagetti69]

calm down peoples!! where is the problem about the patch ??

Other than the few who won't gain access to it, it's too early to say what problems it may cause.

In other news this week GTA 5 Installed to either HDD on both PS3/Xbox has performance issues when compared to the Blu-ray version.
Due to bottle necks when reading from one source (HDD) rather than both Blue-ray drive and HDD simultaneously.

I'm not tech minded but could GT 6 get bogged down, further down the line with all the extra data added to the drive? I mean once the Blu-Ray GT6 has gone gold, adding various gameplay patches and whatnot could cause poor optimisation?

Interesting to see if the GTXL version ( the one with patches on disk ) actually performed any better than the vanilla version with patches.

Maybe I'm totally wrong though. Just a thought.

 

[sk8er913]

Other than the few who won't gain access to it, it's too early to say what problems it may cause.

In other news this week GTA 5 Installed to either HDD on both PS3/Xbox has performance issues when compared to the Blu-ray version.
Due to bottle necks when reading from one source (HDD) rather than both Blue-ray drive and HDD simultaneously.

I'm not tech minded but could GT 6 get bogged down, further down the line with all the extra data added to the drive? I mean once the Blu-Ray GT6 has gone gold, adding various gameplay patches and whatnot could cause poor optimisation?

Interesting to see if the GTXL version ( the one with patches on disk ) actually performed any better than the vanilla version with patches.

Maybe I'm totally wrong though. Just a thought.

It installs data to the HDD because the HDD is faster than the drive.

 

[Alex89]

Sounds like we will get only half a game - again!
And with GT7 said to release in just two years, what game would that be. Gran Turismo 5.5.5?

Can't believe I'm loosing interest in the series I used to love so much. Sad.

 

[Spagetti69]

It installs data to the HDD because the HDD is faster than the drive.

It's not faster than the drive+Blu-ray though.
Rockstar worked some magic there.
If PD want a decent framerate then surely some similar magic is needed.

It's just a theory in my part, as I said I'm not too clever in these matters.

 

[Tornado]

What I am saying is that the broadband penetration is high enough to consider a 1GB download not a major problem.

And the data you've provided doesn't support the premise. Even ignoring the fact that the graph doesn't show much of anything beyond how somewhere between 20% and 100% of people living in most developed countries (with the US specifically being "28%") have dedicated broadband internet access (and crappy broadband internet access at that), there's one thing that the graph doesn't even come close to covering: Data limits. Which slowly but surely over the past few years have been implemented across many American internet providers (nevermind mobile ones), and have always been in place for some broadband providers in other countries (Australian internet is supposedly amazingly terrible about that).


Is it a "major problem" for you? I'm sure it isn't. Will it nonetheless be a problem for many, just like it was with GT5 (and just like it will sure to be for Forza 5 to probably a greater extent) that you're writing off as meaningless anyway? Yep.

 

[Fgame]

It's not faster than the drive+Blu-ray though.
Rockstar worked some magic there.
If PD want a decent framerate then surely some similar magic is needed.

It's just a theory in my part, as I said I'm not too clever in these matters.

It appears to be a very good graphical trick. But the expense is constant disc spin and access noise playing GTA5, thats even with the quiet fat and slim models, it must be terrible with the super slim.
But Its not about frame rate in fact it would make the frame rate worse because its processing more textures and detail. What it does do is make things look a lot nicer and richer and reduced pop up from delayed loading of objects/textures.
But once loaded they have to be drawn by cpu/gpu at 60fps. PS3 cant do that. It struggles with the amount of detail we already have on GT5.

 

[I'm Motarded]

How? What are you thinking the budget does and doesn't consist of?

It's odd that you're implying sound improvements are money-driven similar to how others are thinking that adding more employees will surely improve the sounds. There's so much I want to say and explicitly explain, but I can't. One of them being about the quality of the sounds, not just the engine sounds, are during gameplay and replays.

I wasn't even getting into how the crappy engine sounds are and why they are that way. It's a good thing you didn't bother explaining about the limited ram etc etc

Budgets consists of many things, looks like most of it was spent in advertising GT5/GTAcademy and a bunch of under-utilized Nascar/WRC licensing from where I'm standing.

Can't get away from the fact that more staff means less nights sleeping under desks in the run up to launch.

 

[Tenacious D]

Motarded, you're barking at the moon along with everyone else on this topic. I can tell you without question that Kaz doesn't need or want our advice on how to run Polyphony Digital. Nor would any developer or businessman for that matter. They make their decisions on how to manage things with their philosophy and the challenge of balancing their budgets and resources. And they know more than we do.

Everyone happy to denigrate Kaz and PD on this point completely ignores that they are owned by SONY, and they get their cut of whatever profits Gran Turismo makes. They're the publisher. And no one knows how much PD gets for their work, but it sure as heck isn't all of it. I doubt most of it either.

SONY knows how to judge an organization and whether they need manpower or not. If they thought PD could stand to be 500 strong, they would find a way to make it so, because Gran Turismo is a money maker for them, no question. Your lofty advice, or mine, isn't worth a fistful of yen on this matter.

 

[McLOVIN5489]

Just No.

All members are welcome to take part in any thread as long as they follow the AUP, no part of which states "if you don't like xx then keep it to yourself"!
As such please refrain from even suggesting such a thing to other members.

At no point in my post did I ever say "don't post here"....in fact, I asked several non-rhetorical questions about his reasoning, which I'm curious about. Is THAT against the AUP? no need to pull the AUP out everytime a nay sayer is questioned about their reasoning. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

SONY knows how to judge an organization and whether they need manpower or not. If they thought PD could stand to be 500 strong, they would find a way to make it so, because Gran Turismo is a money maker for them, no question. Your lofty advice, or mine, isn't worth a fistful of yen on this matter.

Correct, Sony and PD know how to judge whether an organization needs manpower or not. To date they've judged that increasing staffing to improve sound, premiumize standards, adding livery editors of even the simplest design, getting rid of the crappy paint chip system, etc. etc. etc. are not going to affect the bottom line enough to justify the increased cost. If they thought it would help the bottom line it would already be done and we wouldn't even be discussing it, along with most of the rest of the content in this forum because it would be done too.

Fact is, Sony and PD believe you can add in everything that most of us are looking for and it may not affect sales one bit, but it may up the development cost by $10-20-30 Million. They are obviously not willing to take the risk and why should they? GT5 was released incomplete and universally acknowledged as the least inspiring volume of the series and yet it sold 11 Million copies. And it will continue to sell well almost regardless of what PD does. The incentive to do the absolute best you can will never be there without a serious challenger or two on the PS platform.

 

[Imari]

Motarded, you're barking at the moon along with everyone else on this topic. I can tell you without question that Kaz doesn't need or want our advice on how to run Polyphony Digital. Nor would any developer or businessman for that matter. They make their decisions on how to manage things with their philosophy and the challenge of balancing their budgets and resources. And they know more than we do.

Everyone happy to denigrate Kaz and PD on this point completely ignores that they are owned by SONY, and they get their cut of whatever profits Gran Turismo makes. They're the publisher. And no one knows how much PD gets for their work, but it sure as heck isn't all of it. I doubt most of it either.

SONY knows how to judge an organization and whether they need manpower or not. If they thought PD could stand to be 500 strong, they would find a way to make it so, because Gran Turismo is a money maker for them, no question. Your lofty advice, or mine, isn't worth a fistful of yen on this matter.

Ah, the old "SONY runs the show, PD just does as they're told".

Clearly, if something isn't going right it must be because of restrictions imposed by Sony, and no fault of PD.

I'd say it's the other way around. When you hear hoofbeats you think horses, not zebras. Sony is another step down the chain from PD. Unless there's reason to believe that Sony is crippling PD, it's not as likely to be the correct answer.

 

[HKS racer]

Imagine PD working with no mandatory deadlines.
GT The Real Vaporware Simulator.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Correct, Sony does know how to judge whether an organization needs manpower or not. To date they've judged that increasing staffing to improve sound, premiumize standards, adding livery editors of even the simplest design, getting rid of the crappy paint chip system, etc. etc. etc. are not going to affect the bottom line enough to justify the increased cost. If they thought it would help the bottom line it would already be done and we wouldn't even be discussing it, along with most of the rest of the content in this forum because it would be done too.

Fact is, Sony believes you can add in everything that most of us are looking for and it may not affect sales one bit, but it may up the development cost by $10-20-30 Million. Sony obviously is not willing to take the risk and why should they? GT5 was released incomplete and universally acknowledged as the least inspiring volume of the series and yet it sold 11 Million copies. And it will continue to sell well almost regardless of what PD does. The incentive to do the absolute best you can will never be there without a serious challenger or two on the PS platform.

I agree. Its kind of like the ongoing Apple joke, that if Apple designed, marketed and sold some feces people would buy it in the millions. PD have kind of got to that point now. They are big enough where they could sell something that is not that good and still shift units in the millions and they did just that with GT5. Of course GT5 was still a fantastic game if judged alone but lacked in many areas compared to previous GT games and competitors. If PD keep doing this it will eventually hurt them but for now they are safe.

The sound thing has really puzzled me for a long time. I often tried to understand the possible reasons behind it but just can't put my finger on it totally.

I do not believe for 1 second that Kaz and his team are content with what they have, despite and earlier claim from Kaz that his sounds in GT5 were just "too perfect". I think it is a pride thing and his hand being forced that drove that statement.

To begin to understand PD and Kaz and how they do things we have to forget how maybe we, or other western developers might approach, priorities and tackle problems. The Japanese way to do business is different and Kaz probably is at the extreme end of how the Japanese do things. Kaz is very much the director and the artist behind the GT franchise.Like an artist he has to interpret his vision in his way, with Sony on his back likely looking for faster results, as well as the fan-base constantly making demands on what they want from GT, Kaz has himself a problem. The results we have (in the case of GT5) are a combination of the former coupled in with the fact that this generation like never before has allowed a game to be released and work to continue after with the possibility of endless patches. Not ideal but this is the way the industry has gone and this practice is not just prevalent with PD, but common among most developers to a degree.

If we want GT games every couple of years this is how it is going to be for now and the future to come. Despite the above, in my mind PD could certainly have given us a far better representation for car sounds but we just have not got the progressive improvements that we should have had, that many other racing games have got. I suspect that Kaz has always wanted to provide us with sound that matches the almost perfect premium car model visuals. I'm guessing even the current industry standard for capturing and presenting motor sounds in game is not good enough for PD, and not a part of the vision and goal to give the franchise the realistic sounds it deserves, so the sounds were more or less just left how they are (at least the samples) for the reins to be picked up at a later date?


I think we have to see every GT game from 5 onward as an evolution of the Kaz's Vision of GT, every incarnation will be a step closer to that vision. No doubt the vision will change during this journey as will the demands from fans that will shape the direction the franchise goes. Sony will play its part and will want a game release as often as possible which will no doubt mean unfinished games that will need constant patching as they do now.

I am PD's biggest critic but have learnt to just accept the way current gen business is, and the way PD flow. I am just happy that we will get a patch that looks like it will address the sound issue once and for all. Time will tell though as I have high expectations from this sound patch as many no doubt do also.

As for the internet issue, I do not see one. Games consoles are almost as dependent on internet as they are electricity to work. This generation of console is heavily internet dependent. Pretty much all games now will require multiple updates and patches from launch that are needed to varying degrees. Those that can afford a PS3 should be able to afford internet IMO. Those that buy a PS3 but do not have good internet coverage where they live knew that before they bought a device that relies so heavily on the internet. IMO Its a no brainier. While I was without internet, I used used my phone as a hotspot and played GT5 online with surprisingly good results, no lag and clear comms.

Looking forward to GT6 and eventually some nice improvements to the sound of the cars.

 

[HKS racer]

Correct, Sony and PD know how to judge whether an organization needs manpower or not. To date they've judged that increasing staffing to improve sound, premiumize standards, adding livery editors of even the simplest design, getting rid of the crappy paint chip system, etc. etc. etc. are not going to affect the bottom line enough to justify the increased cost. If they thought it would help the bottom line it would already be done and we wouldn't even be discussing it, along with most of the rest of the content in this forum because it would be done too.

Fact is, Sony and PD believe you can add in everything that most of us are looking for and it may not affect sales one bit, but it may up the development cost by $10-20-30 Million. They are obviously not willing to take the risk and why should they? GT5 was released incomplete and universally acknowledged as the least inspiring volume of the series and yet it sold 11 Million copies. And it will continue to sell well almost regardless of what PD does. The incentive to do the absolute best you can will never be there without a serious challenger or two on the PS platform.

This IS the point.

Nothing else to add.
End of Discussion.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Some people have made a personal choice NOT to have internet in their homes, for whatever legitimate and painful reasons they may have. Assuming 100% of purchasers of GT6 have Internet it's a huge mistake on PD & SONY's side of things.

I have someone close to my family who has made the choice not to have internet in their home because the open door almost destroyed their family. Them having a brand new and never updated 360 bugs the living snot out of me. But is is their choice as a family to not have it.

Having a 5 pound mound of cocaine in front of a coke addict 24/7 will not lead to good things.

SONY and PD will surely have some backlash if this game is anemic at the $60 price point. Not much backlash, but some.

When a family of 5 people sits in the same room farting around on their smartphones and not saying a word to each other, it's a clear indication our society is in trouble. Yes, I'm guilty of this.

So, it's good that they are patching it. Burt it's bad that they have to, really bad.

 

[Raggadish]

When I was a kid my Mom used to say, "If you don't like it, lump it". That's what I hear every time I see someone say words to the effect of, "If you don't like it don't buy it"

Well, the saying "If you don't like it, don't buy it" is pretty much how you should see it when it comes to you as a buyer being unsatisfied with consumer products and want to see something being changed (it's the most powerful expression). If you don't buy their product, you're speaking the one language they fully understand and therefore will take your action of not supporting their product more seriously.

 

[Fgame]

Well, the saying "If you don't like it, don't buy it" is pretty much how you should see it when it comes to you as a buyer being unsatisfied with consumer products and want to see something being changed (it's the most powerful expression). If you don't buy their product, you're speaking the one language they fully understand and therefore will take your action of not supporting their product more seriously.

Thats not how it works though. We have seen with huge clarity how Microsoft hugely changed their Xbox One at the last minute because of the many thousands of people who just got angry and vented their opinion on the internet. Microsoft went to to officially confirm the changes were not what they wanted to do but were directly in response to the public comments.
When it comes to lost sales, it's already too late for the company. They need to act at the first signs and react quickly.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Thats not how it works though. We have seen with huge clarity how Microsoft hugely changed their Xbox One at the last minute because of the many thousands of people who just got angry and vented their opinion on the internet. Microsoft went to to officially confirm the changes were not what they wanted to do but were directly in response to the public comments.
When it comes to lost sales, it's already too late for the company. They need to act at the first signs and react quickly.

You just made the case that it does work that way.

They're only concerned with the resulting "loss of sales" aspect, all those angry gamers represent.

This was immediately reflected in plummeting preorders for their new console while cancellations skyrocketed, as did preorders for PS4.

Quite frankly, I still can't believe MS was that stupid, as well as arrogant.
However, it was a nice real glimpse of MS to show, how completely out of touch with, and their indfference to, the gaming community.

 

[Raggadish]

Thats not how it works though. We have seen with huge clarity how Microsoft hugely changed their Xbox One at the last minute because of the many thousands of people who just got angry and vented their opinion on the internet. Microsoft went to to officially confirm the changes were not what they wanted to do but were directly in response to the public comments.
When it comes to lost sales, it's already too late for the company. They need to act at the first signs and react quickly.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Motarded, you're barking at the moon along with everyone else on this topic. I can tell you without question that Kaz doesn't need or want our advice on how to run Polyphony Digital. Nor would any developer or businessman for that matter.

I'm not telling them how to run their business. Just saying things as I see it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thats not how it works though. We have seen with huge clarity how Microsoft hugely changed their Xbox One at the last minute because of the many thousands of people who just got angry and vented their opinion on the internet. Microsoft went to to officially confirm the changes were not what they wanted to do but were directly in response to the public comments.
When it comes to lost sales, it's already too late for the company. They need to act at the first signs and react quickly.

You just made the case that it does work that way.

They're only concerned with the resulting "loss of sales" aspect, all those angry gamers represent.

This was immediately reflected in plummeting preorders for their new console while cancellations skyrocketed, as did preorders for PS4.

Quite frankly, I still can't believe MS was that stupid, as well as arrogant.
However, it was a nice real glimpse of MS to show, how completely out of touch with, and their indfference to, the gaming community.

Actually the point Fgame made was that Microsoft should have made the changes in the system before the resulting loss of sales, when it first began as a public outcry. The same type of warning is going on here on GTP concerning GT6 but in a much slower and smaller way. Many have already suggested they will adopt a "wait and see" attitude towards GT6 after buying 1-5 on day 1, and others are downright refusing to buy it if improvements are not made in certain areas. Waiting until there is a drop in sales is not the best time to make changes, before the drop is.

 

[OriginalCheezIt]

Thing to take into consideration is who will still be playing GT6 a year from now,I plan to sell my PS3 in the future.

A lot. GT5 is 3 years old and a ton of people still play it. Why should GT6 be any different?

 

[Tornado]

Because GT5 wasn't released on the onset of a new console generation. A dramatic drop off in player interest is one of the risks Sony's taking with releasing GT6 so late in the system's life.

 

[dr_slump]

Because GT5 wasn't released on the onset of a new console generation. A dramatic drop off in player interest is one of the risks Sony's taking with releasing GT6 so late in the system's life.

At least GT7 won't take that long.

 

[Tenacious D]

Tor, I was thinking the same thing when GT6 was confirmed for PS3. But amazingly, the net still buzzes like mad every time there is news, and clogs with traffic during gaming conventions. I have little doubt that tens of millions are going to be poised this evening to glean and chatter about every syllable Kaz utters on their 22nd. Maybe they knew something we didn't, and it wasn't such a gamble after all but a safe bet. I don't know, but it sure paid off.

(oh, just go read it)

(the linkie is by their names)

I tell you what, you both are assuming an awful lot. One, what GT6 is going to be. Two, how First Party companies work in SONY. And I sincerely doubt you know anything I don't. I also doubt that either of you have run a business, so any assumptions by either of you on how easy it is to just grab employees and insert them in that already running machine known as a business is not worth much. Especially in an environment now as sensitive and secretive as the one surrounding Gran Turismo.

And one more time, this whole "B-b-b-but, people might not have access to the intranets!" is just ludicrous. I have no doubt that 99.99% of those buying GT6 will be within walking distance of a USB port connected to the net which they can use for free. And if you can afford a $60 racing game, I doubt you'll have to sell blood to get a US $5.00 thumb drive with 2GB storage.

Jeepers, the humans who make up this world...

 

[Zer0]

A lot. GT5 is 3 years old and a ton of people still play it. Why should GT6 be any different?

It shouldn't. The fact that GT5 is still popular should not change in GT6 because exist a newer system. It's the same scenario as today with other consoles with others games that are not GT and that does not make drop the interest (at least not in the real world ). When the newer system will adopt a better GT then the changes would start to be noticed more in GT6, but still safe to think that would be played by late PS3 adopters because the classic price drop in the old systems. Similar to what happened with the GT4 sales during the GT5P-GT5 period. Except that PD decides to end the online service in GT6 to speed up the transition...

So for now nothing novelty or dramatic in the situation.

 

[HKS racer]

As someone said, the only language they speak is money. If you bought GT5 and you weren't happy but you'll buy GT6 hoping for improvements regardless, they WILL NOT care if you have something to complain about after the purchase.

When you buy GT6, in their language you are happy customer.

1 or 2 milion people must hold their purchase, to make sure they read the forum more extensively and actually DO what people want.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah! I hear that GT6 isn't a BIT DIFFERENT than GT5!

According to some people around here anyhow. How they know this planet crashing information... pixie wands, maybe.

 

[machschnel]

And one more time, this whole "B-b-b-but, people might not have access to the intranets!" is just ludicrous. I have no doubt that 99.99% of those buying GT6 will be within walking distance of a USB port connected to the net which they can use for free. And if you can afford a $60 racing game, I doubt you'll have to sell blood to get a US $5.00 thumb drive with 2GB storage.

Jeepers, the humans who make up this world...

Can't Polyhpony just release a polished game for once this generation? I think it would be far easy if they did their job rather than ask paying customers to go through the above rigmarole, don't you think?

Small patches are fine and almost the industry standard.

Large day one patches that we are aware of months out from the game even "going gold" are not.