Large day one patch!

[another_jakhole]

That's one way to put it.

The other is that they'll have a month after the game goes gold to continue working on it, and supporting the game at and after it's release isn't a negative at all.

Hopefully the update is not a "make it or break it" deal for those without internet.

Right on the money. Kaz appears to be saying something like what Ridox took from what he said. I agree.

I am sure PD learned the lesson from GT5, GT6 will probably have updates more oriented as expansions.

👍

If someone hasn't got internet, they won't need updates for online play, and most of them won't even know that an update exists.

It is safe to assume that GT6 will be playable from day 1, so it's not like you have an unplayable game.

What's the alternative? Wait for a year until everything's finished and half the customer-base has moved to PS4?

You can always wait for a couple of months until they release a version of GT6 that includes all updates on the disc.

👍👍👍👍👍

BUT, not everything in the updates are going to add onto the online portion of GT6. We'll have to wait to see just what these other features PD HASN'T TOUCHED ON that they're going to be adding in updates after GT6 releases. I don't see how people can read what Kaz said and say GT6 is going to be "unfinished" and incomplete. There are improvements that can be made to everything (not everything, but you know what I mean).

As expected . The situation is no different than GT5 regarding game progress throught updates or online requirements, I don't see the novelty in that. GT at this stage is a very unique game and looking back at GT5 it worked very well for they and us (most of ).

They have more developing time to finish a better product meanwhile the audience play the game. Otherwise with so long development more of the features would not be available until the next title in many years... people that see this as an unfinished game, etc... only need to wait a little more than us and buy the game when they think is finished.

And I leave this quote from the Forza dev to see things into perspective:
Dan: ...we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version.

Always 👍 to you.

 

[Imari]

True, but between a delay and a day one update... I'll take the update.

Why do people want a delayed game?
They could just wait to buy it till this is implented.

Personally, i run the sound on minimum volume enoughto hear the engine, but i prefer to play music. My wife hates the sound of racecars in the livingroom anyway.

Honestly, I'll take the delay.

Personally, it's the same difference either way, I won't be buying it until they've finished patches.

The problem is, the vast majority of reviews are done on the release copy. Hell, most reviews are done on pre-release copies in the weeks leading up to release. Those reviews generate a significant proportion of how the game is perceived by the public.

If the game is a bare skeleton on release, it doesn't matter that much if it gets patched up six months later. If it gets negative reviews on release, the GT brand will take another hit and then they'll spend the next two years until GT7 trying to regain the trust of the buying public.

It's far easier to keep a positive relationship going, than it is to do something bad and then try and fix it up again. GT has a lot of goodwill going for it, but it only goes so far. If the majority of sales come once GT6 is in the $20 bin, that's a lot less profit for PD and Sony.

 

[SkunkyZA]

I have a proper internet connection but the actual speeds my PS3 gets even though it's mere feet from the router, are pathetic.


Source, please because I've heard otherwise.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/forza-motorsport-5-requires-one-time-internet-connection

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ory-day-one-update-adds-drivatars-tracks-cars

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/419374/forza-5-unplayable-without-day-one-download-update/

Many more on google. But then again
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/420007/forza-5-day-one-download-not-required-to-start-playing/

In this link it states that it only adds content and the game can be played without the patch.

As for the whole day one GT6 patch thing, it is a double-edged sword. IT allows them to update the game and add content/features right up to the release date. But then as some has said it feels like you are buying a incomplete version.

Downloading the patch is another problem for some of us with poor internet connections and could take a day or 2 depending on the size and speed and also how stable the connection is. No more buying the game popping it in the ps3 and playing, now we'll have to wait for a patch to download

 

[another_jakhole]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/forza-motorsport-5-requires-one-time-internet-connection

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ory-day-one-update-adds-drivatars-tracks-cars

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/419374/forza-5-unplayable-without-day-one-download-update/

Many more on google..

As for the whole day one patch thing, it is a double-edged sword. IT allows them to update the game and add content/features right up to the release date. But then as some has said it feels like you are buying a incomplete version.

Downloading the patch is another problem for some of us with poor internet connections and could take a day or 2 depending on the size and speed and also how stable the connection is. No more buying the game popping it in the ps3 and playing, now we'll have to wait for a patch to download

That's the really unfortunate part about it. I've heard it literally taking more than 24 hours to download an update, but others taking 7-ish hours to do it (I believe that was when people were trying to download Spec 2.0). The only bright side those people can look at is Kaz knows (and has stated that he takes it into consideration) to keep MOST of the updates at an optimal, or reasonable, size.

 

[maxpontiac]

I found the part below interesting as well.

Undecided whether I should like the idea or dislike it.

Edit : As for the planned day one patch, I really feel sorry for those who (for reasons) don't have a proper internet connection or don't have any at all. GT5's enormous updates were bad enough and I'm on a 100/10 connection.

Welcome to gaming in 2013.

 

[amar212]

I tried to connect some dots and here is my personal opinion on this situation.

You remember the infamous GT5 last minute delay in October 2010? One where the game was scheduled for November 2nd and then mysteriously postponed to November 24, with two metaphorical explanations:

1. the reason for the delay was that it was taking some time to finalize some of the game's more complicated systems (K. Yamauchi), and

2. it was an executive decision that was made yesterday (T. Imasaki)

I always suspected how that particular delay (from November 2nd to November 24th) had to do with something much more technical than publicly said: scheduling the actual disc-production. Backthen, there were at least 3 big multi-million games coming out and dozen Blu-Ray mastering productions Sony has on their worldwide disposal just had to print other games for other publishers - and GT5 had to be postponed. Me and Jordan even discussed about it and some later development actually fit perfectly into such reasoning.

Polyphony probably missed the window to produce the master-copy for day or two, but the scheduling for BR-mastering was compromised. And we had to wait for 3 weeks until factories could print GT5 again to meet the demand.

Fast forward to 2013. We are at September and GT6 is scheduled for December. Almost 90 days. Why have we already heard about "day one patch"? Why there is already an official statement about it? I think that production of game-discs is the reason, again. And very end of this year is damn special for scheduling. Why? Well. Look at this:

Batman Arkham Origins, October 25th
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, November 1st
Battlefield 4, November 1st
Call of Duty: Ghosts, November 5th
Need for Speed Rivals, November 19th
Watch Dogs , November 22nd
..among other PS3 games. All above are only AAA multi-million selling franchises that needs to have millions of actual physical-discs pressed and packaged on their release dates. There are at least 20 additional PS3 games scheduled for release within same window (late October, early December).

...and then come the PS4 release on November 29th with KillZone and DriveClub and all above titles with their next-gen versions discs - all above with 40 days window prior to GT6 release. And they are all printed and mastered on the same Blu-Ray discs in the same factories around the world. Including other 10+ PS4 titles that will be available on discs on November 29th (and later in December for territories that get PS4 in the "second wave").

And somebody must manufacture all these discs, right? And GT6 has to have at least few million discs ready, shipped and distributed and merchandised before December 6. Not to even speak about press-discs, etc.

What do I think? I think how GT6 final master-code is being prepared as we speak. There are already a full pre-order packs announced, almost final packagings, incentives, bundles, etc. Everything is absolutely ready. Why? Because GT6 will probably be printed much-much earlier then GT5 was, in order to allow the window for printing sheer volumes of next-gen titles - whose master-codes will probably arrive on the very final minute to factories - and to not repeat the situation from 2010.

Because of the above there will be official big day-one patch. The Polyphony has probably finished majority of game (despite Kaz saying 80%) and they are probably doing final polishing for the master-copy. Additional work will be done in forthcoming days once the master-copy is issued to production. And production will probably start somewhere in mid-October - when all above schedules are taken into concern - which will give additional 40 days for PD to prepare the post-launch patch and additions.

Purely my personal speculation, of course.

 

[diegorborges]

I don't care to download a big patch if it'll make my game, a better one.

A delay would make me furious.

Bring it on PD!

 

[gtracedriver1]

This is really stupid thing to say and will confuse lots of people. Also problem for those who do not have proper internet connection. But if the game can get better with updates and adding seasonal events to earn money fast and things like that. It is good idea

 

[TetreRouge]

From eurogamer.

"It's the same every time," said Yamauchi. "Everything's very tight. It's an incredibly tight schedule. As to being able to include everything we want to on day one, we probably won't be able to. I think for the 12 months following the release we'll continue to update the software. Because in Gran Turismo 6 we're preparing a lot of different things we haven't even touched on yet."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-18-gran-turismo-6-will-have-a-large-day-one-patch

This basically means they're being lazy again.

 

[eran0004]

This basically means they're being lazy again.

That basically means you're drawing ingorant conclusions again.

Source, please because I've heard otherwise.

Google "forza 5 day one patch". You'll find two statements from Turn 10:
(I). A day one patch will be required to play the game.
(II). A day one patch will only be required if you want to finish the game, because the content of the patch will be required towards the end of the career mode.

 

[MXH]

Welcome to gaming in 2013.

Thank you. But I'm not entirely sure those living in rural areas and in countries with a generally poor internet infrastructure got the message.

 

[eran0004]

Thank you. But I'm not entirely sure those living in rural areas and in countries with a generally poor internet infrastructure got the message.

Because there's no internet in the countryside? Usually, rural areas are in the frontline of remote communication, because they rely on it. And if you live way out in the forest you probably won't have access to a game store anyways, and you can't pre-order the game on the internet, because - you have no internet.

 

[amar212]

Scandinavian fight over internet?

Well, now I have seen everything

 

[djslofstra]

I've a downloadspeed of 20Mb/s and uploadspeed of 2Mb/s and over here that is quite slow. It's the basic package. But I am able to host lobbies in good quality without any lag. Downloading that GT5 spec 2.0 patch took me around 2 hours (Had only 10Mb/s back then). I can imagine though how frustrating it is with a lower speed.

 

[Jubby]

Thank you. But I'm not entirely sure those living in rural areas and in countries with a generally poor internet infrastructure got the message.

I understand the frustration of sub-par broadband connections. However, the frustration should be accurately directed at the countries, states, municipalities, and (most importantly) the ISPs that provide/don't provide you the internet.

The majority of localities are pushing towards higher broadband speeds, it would be the minority that are lagging behind. Aggravating the majority by delaying is not a smart business/PR move. Either way someone is going to be 🤬 off.

 

[another_jakhole]

I tried to connect some dots and here is my personal opinion on this situation.

You remember the infamous GT5 last minute delay in October 2010? One where the game was scheduled for November 2nd and then mysteriously postponed to November 24, with two metaphorical explanations:

1. the reason for the delay was that it was taking some time to finalize some of the game's more complicated systems (K. Yamauchi), and

2. it was an executive decision that was made yesterday (T. Imasaki)

I always suspected how that particular delay (from November 2nd to November 24th) had to do with something much more technical than publicly said: scheduling the actual disc-production. Backthen, there were at least 3 big multi-million games coming out and dozen Blu-Ray mastering productions Sony has on their worldwide disposal just had to print other games for other publishers - and GT5 had to be postponed. Me and Jordan even discussed about it and some later development actually fit perfectly into such reasoning.

Polyphony probably missed the window to produce the master-copy for day or two, but the scheduling for BR-mastering was compromised. And we had to wait for 3 weeks until factories could print GT5 again to meet the demand.

Fast forward to 2013. We are at September and GT6 is scheduled for December. Almost 90 days. Why have we already heard about "day one patch"? Why there is already an official statement about it? I think that production of game-discs is the reason, again. And very end of this year is damn special for scheduling. Why? Well. Look at this:

Batman Arkham Origins, October 25th
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, November 1st
Battlefield 4, November 1st
Call of Duty: Ghosts, November 5th
Need for Speed Rivals, November 19th
Watch Dogs , November 22nd
..among other PS3 games. All above are only AAA multi-million selling franchises that needs to have millions of actual physical-discs pressed and packaged on their release dates. There are at least 20 additional PS3 games scheduled for release within same window (late October, early December).

...and then come the PS4 release on November 29th with KillZone and DriveClub and all above titles with their next-gen versions discs - all above with 40 days window prior to GT6 release. And they are all printed and mastered on the same Blu-Ray discs in the same factories around the world. Including other 10+ PS4 titles that will be available on discs on November 29th (and later in December for territories that get PS4 in the "second wave").

And somebody must manufacture all these discs, right? And GT6 has to have at least few million discs ready, shipped and distributed and merchandised before December 6. Not to even speak about press-discs, etc.

What do I think? I think how GT6 final master-code is being prepared as we speak. There are already a full pre-order packs announced, almost final packagings, incentives, bundles, etc. Everything is absolutely ready. Why? Because GT6 will probably be printed much-much earlier then GT5 was, in order to allow the window for printing sheer volumes of next-gen titles - whose master-codes will probably arrive on the very final minute to factories - and to not repeat the situation from 2010.

Because of the above there will be official big day-one patch. The Polyphony has probably finished majority of game (despite Kaz saying 80%) and they are probably doing final polishing for the master-copy. Additional work will be done in forthcoming days once the master-copy is issued to production. And production will probably start somewhere in mid-October - when all above schedules are taken into concern - which will give additional 40 days for PD to prepare the post-launch patch and additions.

Purely my personal speculation, of course.

Ah! Interesting. 👍

 

[Chikane_GTR]

What they're saying here effectively is... "The game will be released in an unfinished state. But, that's okay as we can just patch it up later." Unless, of course, you can't connect your PS3 up. In which case, you're screwed.

no they'll just have to wait for GT6 XL

 

[McLOVIN5489]

I believe that Sony could take better care of their #1 selling franchise by widening said "tight schedules". Give the guys the time they need to "touch on everything they've implemented". Let's be real, no one wants to release something any less than what was envisioned, but how often do things actually work that way? The best you can do is get everything you can get done within the time slotted, and add the things you need to through updates.... Exactly what PD is doing.

 

[machschnel]

Forza 5 will be unplayable if you don't download the day-one "DLC". So it's not like they're the only ones to use this possibility.

I thought we were discussing Gran Turismo....

And why would console games need to operate on different terms than PC games?

Because consoles by their very nature should operate on different terms - PC fills one niche, console fills another. You accept the annoyances that come with PC gaming because of the possibility of mods etc. Why exactly would I accept similar annoyances with zero possibility of mods?

 

[maxpontiac]

Thank you. But I'm not entirely sure those living in rural areas and in countries with a generally poor internet infrastructure got the message.

Well, considering that those living in areas like that are there most likely due to choice, your point would be?

LOL. Talk about a first world problem... "I can't download GT6's patch"

I thought we were discussing Gran Turismo....

Please. Like that never stops people from bringing up FM this and FM that when GT is being discussed here. Did you forget where you are? Regardless, that poster had a point.

 

[another_jakhole]

Well, considering that those living in areas like that are there most likely due to choice, your point would be?

LOL. Talk about a first world problem... "I can't download GT6's patch"



Please. Like that never stops people from bringing up FM this and FM that when GT is being discussed here. Did you forget where you are? Regardless, that poster had a point.

haha maschchchchhhhenel's intentions are clear.

 

[eran0004]

I thought we were discussing Gran Turismo....

Good, because we are. Now, if you go back and read that post in context, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Because consoles by their very nature should operate on different terms - PC fills one niche, console fills another. You accept the annoyances that come with PC gaming because of the possibility of mods etc. Why exactly would I accept similar annoyances with zero possibility of mods?

So, because the fruit basket (the console game) is lacking pears (mods), it shouldn't have oranges (patches)? I find that kind of logic strange and exotic.

 

[machschnel]

Please. Like that never stops people from bringing up FM this and FM that when GT is being discussed here. Did you forget where you are? Regardless, that poster had a point.

But I thought Forza was an inferior brand. Why would you compare something like Gran Turismo to it? Wouldn't that just be taking Gran Turismo down to it's level?

Also, I thought Forza 5 was coming out on the Xbox One, giving developers a little lee way when it comes to early patches (it's a brand new console, who knows what might happen come release).

What Polyphonys excuse? Pretty sure the PS3 has been out for a little while now...

 

[maxpontiac]

But I thought Forza was an inferior brand. Why would you compare something like Gran Turismo to it? Wouldn't that just be taking Gran Turismo down to it's level?

Also, I thought Forza 5 was coming out on the Xbox One, giving developers a little lee way when it comes to early patches (it's a brand new console, who knows what might happen come release).

What Polyphonys excuse? Pretty sure the PS3 has been out for a little while now...

That first paragraph of yours looks like a worm sitting on a fishing hook.👎

Again, as you must know, plenty of games come out with patches, meaning it's nothing new under the sun. But making mountains out of molehills is nothing new.

 

[eran0004]

But I thought Forza was an inferior brand. Why would you compare something like Gran Turismo to it? Wouldn't that just be taking Gran Turismo down to it's level?

Also, I thought Forza 5 was coming out on the Xbox One, giving developers a little lee way when it comes to early patches (it's a brand new console, who knows what might happen come release).

What Polyphonys excuse? Pretty sure the PS3 has been out for a little while now...

So Forza is an inferior brand? That is just nonsense. At best it's your own personal opinion, but the last time I checked your personal opinion is not what's deciding what we can or can't mention here.

The age of the console is irrelevant, what's more relevant would be the length of the development, but even then there would always be features left on the to-do list, no matter how long development time you take and for what console you develop, and there will always be time between print and release where you can do additional work.

 

[05XR8]

Didn't PD release a disc with the updates? Things is, people had to pay for it. Those of us with Internet could CHOOSE whether to buy the extra cars or just download the new patches. People without net get the cars with the patches. I don't know the ratio of GT buyers with or without Internet connection.

 

[Foxiol]

I´m used to Steam, Desura, Origin and other services to buy and download my games on PC...(I got more than 20 on PSN as well) some of them are 24GB (as Rage)...and I have a 10MB DSL network here (9 down and almost one up) which sucks. (actually I´m downloading a game on Steam as we speak at 1MB/second...when it is working well)

So for me patches "are nothing" but I know for some they are because they have even worst connections than mine or none at all.

But the thing is that we are going to get another not so finished product again. You can sell me an alpha/beta like rF2 or pCARS did, which you know it will have hundreds of updates and patches...but come on GT is taking this to another level...

When a game "gets finished" is when you should sell it...and that is what major gaming companies do. Then if you find errors and such things you need to patch that game.
But in this case PD is giving you "half of the product" and you never know at the end how is it going to be or work or whatever. And you don´t know if sounds are going to be updated because they don´t know how to say "YES" or "NO" and let people think if they actually want it or not. (like me)

I´m not getting games just because of the name any more, I´m getting a product that you can ensure me that it will be full and made with quality.

How can you pre-order a game that they are not even telling you which TRACKS, CARS and FEATURES are in it? Does it makes any sense to all of you?

They are always like "huh well...we have surprises...and we are NOT sure if we are going to implement this or that...".

Sorry but come on...let´s be serious here, I´m not 100% sure about what GT6 will have in it...this is not a "story telling" game in where you can´t tell people parts of the game because you´ll be spoiling it...this is a racing game...it will have CARS, TRACKS and FEATURES....just TELL ME and TELL US (costumers and fans) what are we going to get pretty please...

Is that hard to do?...

As always my personal opinion and point of view.

 

[eran0004]

^ To the gentleman above me: You're blowing it out of proportions. Alright, they're selling you half (probably closer to 95%, but I don't know how you use to round numbers up or down) a game, and giving you the other half (or 5%, depending on the kind of math you do) for free. What is the problem?

As for CARS. TRACKS and FEATURES, they've been sharing that a lot during the past six months and there was also this demo that you may have heard of. It's not like GT6 is a big enigma.

I don't know the ratio of GT buyers with or without Internet connection.

The ratio of GT buyers without internet is probably minimal. If we talk about poor internet connection it's a different story. But there's no mention of the size of the patch so it's hard to speculate on the impact.

 

[another_jakhole]

But the thing is that we are going to get another not so finished product again. You can sell me an alpha/beta like rF2 or pCARS did, which you know it will have hundreds of updates and patches...but come on GT is taking this to another level...

GT5 = +2 years of updates

GT6 = 12 predetermined months of updates

GT6 isn't in the same crapstorm that GT5 went through. It's crap-free and ready to start a new day (era).

 

[Wolfe]

I still think any title that sells itself primarily on a singleplayer experience should not require to be connected to the internet in order to provide a complete product. Whether it's GT with major post-release updates, or other games that hide on-disc unlockables behind multiplayer-based goals and other such nonsense.

Unfortunately...

Welcome to gaming in 2013.

...I might return to PC games instead of buying any of the next-gen consoles. As others have said, at least you get other benefits in return for the hassle of it.