LeMONS to LeMANS Race Series -- Season Ended

  • Thread starter chuyler1
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Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) N1 '91
It had sports suspension installed and ECU. (I didnt save though, so Im going to run some laps tonight and I may be swapping the supension for a sports muffler and racing filter.
 
Yes. I was wondering what happened to you. I'm not sure how we will score your run if you get disconnected in another race though. We can debate whether to give you the position you had when the disconnect occured or subtract 1-2 positions or something along those lines.

I think that is fair. Maybe minus 3 positions if less than 33% finished. 2 positions if less than 66% finished and 1 position otherwise. Otherwise, I could overtake everyone like someone did on the pace lap last night (can't remember who) and then hope for a disconnect. I'm not sure if you can monitor when someone gets disconnected though.

Having said that, 1-2 positions subtracted from my position at the time will probably be last anyway :lol:

Will be trying to get a more stable connection between now and next race anyway.
 
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) N1 '91
It had sports suspension installed and ECU. (I didnt save though, so Im going to run some laps tonight and I may be swapping the supension for a sports muffler and racing filter.
If I were you, I'd definitely skip the suspension in this first round. On comfort tires, you won't get very much body roll because the lateral grip just isn't there. I think I'm going to work on power mods for the first few races and wait to buy the full suspension kit when we get to sport medium or soft so I can add some camber.

I've got a feeling I chose the entirely wrong car haha
I doubt it. You'll be able to get the weight way down on your car and it will be a monster when we get to Nurburgring.
 
I am considering either 50-70 laps at Grand Valley East Reverse.

Please state your preference based on the following:
50 laps -- Race length ~65 minutes. 25 laps per set of tires will probably be the winning pit strategy but no pitting is still an option.
60 laps -- Race length ~78 minutes. Drivers can push for 30 laps per set of tires or try 20 laps. No pitting likely won't work.
70 laps -- Race length ~90 minutes. A 1 pit stop strategey is really stretched thin but might still work. 2 pit stops will be the safe bet.

Please do some practice laps beforehand and have your cars ready to go. Room will open at 9:30 +/- 5 minutes. Race will start at 10:00.

Instructions for the Pole sitter:
Maintain 40-60mph during the first lap to allow cars to line up single file. A few hundred feet before the start/finish accelerate to racing speed.

Instructions for everyone else:
Wait for the car in front of you to line up. Do not pass on the first lap. Passing is only allowed AFTER you cross the start finish line. Be prepared to start accelerating as you enter the last turn. Drive cautiously into the first few turns. The car in front of you likely will be running faster lap times so a divebomb to get around him won't do you much good.
 
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My vote is for 60. I think that it will probably be fairly easy to get 25 laps out of a set of tires while still maintaining reasonable laptimes. Having to go 30 will make it a bit more challenging and possibly make a 2 stop strategy faster for some cars.
 
I just added 70 laps as an option too.

BTW, I found I can definitely do 30 laps on a set of tires while only losing about 2 seconds per lap between my first 5 laps and my last 5 laps. So the last 10 laps on the tires were definitely a solid second slower, maybe more. Subtract those 10 laps from each set of tires and you stand to gain at least 20 seconds with two pit stops, maybe more.

Stretching it to 35 laps would really push the tires beyond 1/3 remaining tread...making the 2 vs 1 pit strategy very VERY close.
 
If I were you, I'd definitely skip the suspension in this first round. On comfort tires, you won't get very much body roll because the lateral grip just isn't there. .

I had already installed it on the car, but turns out I may have to change. I spent my lunch hour just now doing the license trick to update the UCD and after 30 or so tries, finally came across my R32 GT-R N1 for...41,621, so with parts my car is already valued at over 45K! MGT said it was only 25,252. I dont feel okay using the car. I took a picture. I also ran across just the stock R32 GT-R and it was 33K, also 10K + above MGT.

I have the Lancer you have, but dont want to resort to using that so to have as many unique cars in the race. (though I might) I bought an R33 GT-R, RX-7 RS-R '97, supra RZ '97 and RX-7 GT-X '90. I am going to test them in the coming week and choose one if thats acceptable.

EDIT: Also bought an MR2 GTS, but it was only 14K so probably not an option. I took a picture of the 4 cars above and not the MR2 since I assume it wont be as decent.
 
That's fine. I think someone mentioned that the supra doesn't allow turbo charging. That's 10 grand you won't be able to spend and will certainly make the car plateau.

Given the price disparity in the UCD vs MGT, I think next season I may restrict things to premium cars. I just wish there were more to choose from at the same price point.

But regardless, I think things will work out as the season progresses. Just pick something you will enjoy driving that you can add plenty of mods too. Anything that has at least 425-450pp to start should work.
 
Is that all? I have you with 6,530 left to spend. You paid 21,497 for the car right?

Yep. I am saving money for later races. Also, i prefer the 60 lap strategy depending on the course. The reason we made our tires last so long last night was because of the very short lap times. I made my first set of tires last 47 laps and I wasn't losing more then 1s a lap. But, that was mostly because I was driving slow on purpose.
 
But regardless, I think things will work out as the season progresses. Just pick something you will enjoy driving that you can add plenty of mods too. Anything that has at least 425-450pp to start should work.

Before oil change or chassis refresh, that N1 has 453 PP (the same as the RX-7) and its 16K more. What is going on here??
 
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I'm pretty sure I saw one in my UCD that was 30,001cr. What is the pp when you do the engine rebuild? Get the car to 475pp (I think that's why grenade and I are running) and we'll call that 30k.

That brings up an interesting tactic. Perhaps performance points should be used to start the season instead. I think its too late for this season but if people picked a car and built it up to 450-480pp without the use of engine-detune or ballast, that would make the start of the season very equal.
 
I'm pretty sure I saw one in my UCD that was 30,001cr. What is the pp when you do the engine rebuild? Get the car to 475pp (I think that's why grenade and I are running) and we'll call that 30k.

That brings up an interesting tactic. Perhaps performance points should be used to start the season instead. I think its too late for this season but if people picked a car and built it up to 450-480pp without the use of engine-detune or ballast, that would make the start of the season very equal.

I would take a 450 car with tuning over my stock 489 all day long. I like the idea that we had at the start and I think people will make what they believe is the best decision for them in the long run.

Adding too many more parameters just takes away from the spirit of the event in my opinion
 
Done it bit more research between my still shots and MGT.
The Supra RZ '97 was available for 27,977 and MGT has it listed for 43,900
The MR2 GT-S was 17,950 (though I dont have a pic) and MGT has it for 24,980
The R33 was available for 27,872 and MGT has it for 30,476
The RX-7 GTX was the closest available for 13,503 and MGT 14,223

It's as if the prices reflect the best possible version of the car on MGT. As if the value represents a low mileage version of car thats been refreshed and had an oil change.

PS: I cannot bring myself to use a car thats worth 45K for the first race. Even if I dont win...I dont want to open a can of worms. I'm going to fall in with the OP, otherwise people might start putting parts in their car to reach a certain PP, going well over budget on the way.
 
I think you are right. The MGT is the price representing best condition... Which is why a lot of 1mil cars on MGT are always less than 1mil on UCD.

If we are going by cost again for next season, given the large discrepancy of prices between UCD and MGT, maybe MGT list price is a fairer to go by given that engine rebuild and oil change is not counted in the budget.

Just out of interest, what happens if you're a dumbass and you blow your budget for a given race? Disqualification or penalty?
 
I think you are right. The MGT is the price representing best condition... Which is why a lot of 1mil cars on MGT are always less than 1mil on UCD.

If we are going by cost again for next season, given the large discrepancy of prices between UCD and MGT, maybe MGT list price is a fairer to go by given that engine rebuild and oil change is not counted in the budget.

Just out of interest, what happens if you're a dumbass and you blow your budget for a given race? Disqualification or penalty?

My idea is immediate disqualification from that race. No prize money. And if you went too overboard in your spending, a multiple race suspension.

I think we really need to make sure people are playing by the rules. Pay attention to what your doing and this won't be a problem.
 
Chuyler,

I was thinking about what would occur if someone were to miss a race during the series. Obviously they will need some money for the following week, or they most likely will not be competitive.

My proposal would be that they would get the 45,000 credits, but obviously they wouldn't get any championship points for the race they missed. This essentially is giving them a last place finish for the race.

Thought I would bring it up, because it is always tough for every single person to make each race.
 
If we are going by cost again for next season, given the large discrepancy of prices between UCD and MGT, maybe MGT list price is a fairer to go by

I agree. I'm only finding about 5% of cars where the MGT price is actually close to the UCD value. I bet through proof, there lies a Statistical significance, because too often the price points are 15-20% apart--something that I dont believe is occuring by chance.
 
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For reference, my EVO was listed at 29,298 on MGT but I paid 24,512 in the UCD. The cheaper price allowed me to perform a stage 1 weight reduction. That gave me about 8-9 performance points that I wouldn't have had, bringing it to 477. I really don't think that made all that much difference, i was gaining time at Autumn Ring in the corners, not on the straight. I think Redreevos' car only had about 455 performance points when i checked and we all know how he finished.

Things will be different at GVE-R when cars can really open up beyond 3rd gear and people start going off track and getting damage...and remember, if your car is slow to start, you'll get more reward money to spend. The 4th place car will have 7,500 more to spend than the 1st place car after the first race. That's gotta be worth about 20-30pp if spent in the right place. If you place last, you could add upwards of 50-60pp with the extra winnings.

Yes. You gain nothing from cheating the system. There's no money involved. I started this to be a fun research project for people to find cheap cars and build them up over a series of races...with a reverse reward system to really mix things up. I race with most of the guys on the roster every night anyway. We all know each other's abilities as well as talents with tuning cars.

After each race, I will update the spreadsheet with your latest winnings. When you send me your parts list before the next race, I will verify that you haven't gone over budget. It should be pretty straight forward what mods to install each week but for those that like to tinker, look for a second car in the UCD to run tests on. I think this will become important when trying to select a custom transmission vs a turbo. If you go with the turbo you'll be fast, but you may top out your stock gearing. Depending on that week's track one might be better than the other and you'll have to run some laps to test.
 
Chuyler,

I was thinking about what would occur if someone were to miss a race during the series. Obviously they will need some money for the following week, or they most likely will not be competitive.

My proposal would be that they would get the 45,000 credits, but obviously they wouldn't get any championship points for the race they missed. This essentially is giving them a last place finish for the race.

Thought I would bring it up, because it is always tough for every single person to make each race.
Anyone else care to weigh in on this. Missing a race really messes with the system. Let's say you came in last on race 1 and got 45k. your car is now should be competitive the next race because you have the most to spend. However you miss that race and now get an extra 45k to spend. Now your car is sure to win the next race you compete in. I think it might be more fair to give the person who missed a race the average winnings to spend, 30-35,000cr. It's true they didn't get any points, but one first place finish is equal to missing 4 races.
 
Anyone else care to weigh in on this. Missing a race really messes with the system. Let's say you came in last on race 1 and got 45k. your car is now should be competitive the next race because you have the most to spend. However you miss that race and now get an extra 45k to spend. Now your car is sure to win the next race you compete in. I think it might be more fair to give the person who missed a race the average winnings to spend, 30-35,000cr. It's true they didn't get any points, but one first place finish is equal to missing 4 races.

I am not set on the 45,000 credits. I mostly wanted to bring up this topic before the season started. I think anywhere between 30-45k will allow someone who missed a race for "real life"(some people), to be competitive in the next race.

Chuyler, I am not sure I understood your last sentence. Do you mean - that a last place finish is worth 5 points and a first is worth 20 points? Missed races are worth 0 points to my understanding. Therefore, 4 missed races is 4 x 0 = 0 points.
 
What I'm saying is that we have to be careful with rewards for missed races. If you miss 2 races and have boatloads of cash to spend on your car for getting 2 last places finishes, you could quite possibly win the 3rd race for 20pts no contest thus giving you an average of 7pts per race. That may not put you in the running for winning the series, but it would put you on par with someone that raced all 3 and placed 10th (5pts), 5th (10pts), 10th (5pts). So I agree we need to give the absent person some amount of money...but it needs to be low enough to be fair to the other drivers.
 
I'm for the no points and average cash for upgrades if someone misses a race. It would seem to allow the person to stay competitive, but not put them over the top.

I guess if we wanted to really discourage missing races then no championship points and give the same cash for upgrades that were awarded to the person who won.
 
I think they ought get the minimum $ and no points. No one is forcing folks to show up, but should reward those who do with at least more cash than anyone whose not present.
 
Based on the current scoring system, someone like RedReevos could enter a race and come last.. Pocketing 45000cr and 5 points and virtually slingshot his way into 1st place.

Anyway that is beside the point. I think 30000cr/0pts is fair. If it was for money I would say 0/0 but given this is just for fun I don't think the absentee should be too severely penalized. The 0pt for the race is enough of a penalty and 30000cr keeps him competitive for the next race.
 
I think they ought get the minimum $ and no points. No one is forcing folks to show up, but should reward those who do with at least more cash than anyone whose not present.

I think this is the best idea. Why should someone who didn't show up get more money than someone who actually ran the event?

ps. thanks for the paint, the s15s gonna look sweet next race.
 
I think they ought get the minimum $ and no points. No one is forcing folks to show up, but should reward those who do with at least more cash than anyone whose not present.
I think this is the best idea. Why should someone who didn't show up get more money than someone who actually ran the event?


I understand what you are saying here, but I think championship points are the most valuable. At 45,000 credits they would essentially be getting the same money as the last place person but without the championship points.

What is to keep someone from finishing in last(on purpose) 2 races in a row, so as to have a PP advantage, and still have 10 pts for the championship. There is no benefit to purposely miss races.

I would like everyone to be a part of every race. I just don't think that is possible. Someone's child might get sick, a business trip could come up, someone's ps3 could die(happened to me in the IS-F series), etc.. I just wouldn't want these people to be completely discouraged from coming back because they are short championship points and money. Unfortunately there is an attrition rate to these series.

As I said previously, I would vote for somewhere between 30-45k.

_________________________________________________________

This is a completely separate topic, but in the same post as to not double post. I sent one of the members of this series, my thoughts for the turns in Autumn Mini. Just in case anyone is interested, or might find something useful in it, I will post it here.

The message follows:

I will give you a quick synopsis of what I do in each turn. Turn one, I start my braking at the end of the median between pit exit and the track. I try and get close to the outside rumble strip.(usually not actually hitting it because it seems to upset the rear end.) I turn into 1 wihile dragging a little bit of brake and feathering the throttle to keep the rear in check. I exit 1 as wide as possible, trying to straighten the wheel to apply throttle without bringing the rear around.

Once I have it under controlled acceleration I work the car close to the rumble strip on the right. I brake by feel here, no marker. I turn into 2 that same as 1.. Dragging the brake while feathering the throttle to keep the rear in check. I exit 2 pretty wide and then just kind of try and hang on for 3.

At the midway between 3 and 4 I tap the brakes to get the car pointed in the right direction for the next sections of the track. I exit 4 wide and stay there until 5. I cut across turn 5 at about a tire width off the rumble. I am aiming the car straight at where I want to enter 6 at a bit of width. This allows me to brake in a straight line in preparation for 6. I stay tight to the inside on 6 and 7. I don't run out wide, like the tire tracks show on those turns, I find it better to just stay tight.

Turns 8 and 9 I consider as just one long sweeper. Basically turning the wheel in a way on entry to 8 that I can keep the same wheel turn through 9.

I run 10 and 11 like 5 and 6. I cut across 10 staying about a tires width of the inside curb. Tap the brakes when get wide enough for the final turn to point the car where I can properly apex the final turn. Then it is just finding the balance of throttle that can be applied to get acceleration while controlling the car. I am at about 86-87mph at the start finish.

A greatly enjoyable experience on this track with this car. I can imagine, though, that it must be quite a handful with a pad.

Hope the above helps. I also hope I got all the turns correct, as I am just running through this off of memory.

Rees
 
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I'm on here now. I will post up my car in the next couple days.

I know i am going to miss a few races. I work midnights, 6 days on, 2 off.

I'm for the no points and average cash for upgrades if someone misses a race. It would seem to allow the person to stay competitive, but not put them over the top.

I guess if we wanted to really discourage missing races then no championship points and give the same cash for upgrades that were awarded to the person who won.

I think this is fair. Heck, just giving me some money to work with is fair. I just want to race and have fun. If there are more people that want to race though, and i would take a spot, i would understand.
 
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