Libertarian Party: Your Thoughts?

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Glad you bring that up. It's exactly the same - you can't be that equivalent. Well you could, but you would be breaking the law.

Medics and nurses have a duty of care to the patient, and such a duty should be enshrined within the teaching profession. Being sexist towards the child should be recognised by the profession as unacceptable. Imagine all teachers had to have a licence, and had to uphold their profession's ethical code of conduct. This would exist independently of the state, much like the GMC. Taking the GMC as an example, recently there have been cases of doctors blank-signing abortion forms which is in direct contravention of the UK's abortion law. The GMC themselves decided that "fitness to practice" hearings weren't necessary in these cases (these hearings can result in being struck off the medical register). If, however there were a group of doctors denying medical care to women, and didn't provide an alternate method of access to abortion then it is highly likely the GMC would review those doctors' fitness to practice.

Both are against the law, but one will be seen as progressive for society, the other a step back. This is similar to how I'd imagine teachers would be judged should they be found to be discriminating against pupils in their care on the basis of race/sex/religion. Now, you ask how a private tutor teaching racism would be different to a hack undertaking minor surgery. It wouldn't, and society should judge both individuals based on the laws they are contravening, or in the absence of any, lobby to amend laws most suitable to society at the time. Laws are always in a state of flux, and as Famine said immoral ones have been treated as beyond contestation for centuries. That's no reason however to shy away from creating new, more relevant ones.

Basically, all of these mechanisms exist in a libertarian society. Instead of a legally enforced union, you have voluntary unions. @Famine explained exactly how these unions can develop a code of conduct, and result in exactly the sort of controls on teachers that you'd like. Here's the part you don't like - there are a significant number of people that want teachers to teach their kids religious nonsense (apparently @Famine is one of them :lol:). YEC is the example that keeps being brought up because it's the one that is easily seen at odds with facts that kid are often taught. My take on this is that despite the fact that you don't like it, they're not abusing their children. You have to let them teach their values to their kids (whether it's a hired hand or not).

What kids have a right to learn is the tools to learn more. Communication and logic (reading and math) are those tools - and it's what each parent is obliged to provide their child. A child that grows up the victim of a rights abuse in education is not able to effectively use currency. They have no grasp on basic mathematics and so they're impossible to employ. They have no ability to read, or extremely limited ability to read so they can't teach themselves. They have no ability to speak, or limited ability to speak, so they can't express their needs. This is what rights violations look like - children who have grown to adults that cannot function.

An adult who holds down a full-time job as an engineer but still believes in Santa Clause is not what a rights violation looks like.
 
there are a significant number of people that want teachers to teach their kids religious nonsense (apparently @Famine is one of them :lol:)
I should let you tell you herself, but @PlanetPurple, my atheist 13 year old daughter, is classed as "Gifted & Talented" in Religious Education - meaning she's in the top 5% in the subject dealing with religion and religious beliefs, despite not having any herself :lol:

Or perhaps because of it, she's more objective about it.

Oddly, she arrived at the point of atheism herself. We've always taught her what people believe in (and why) if she's asked and never prejudiced our answers - even when it's been the Tooth Fairy, Santa or Xenu.
 
@Kaisyu

You got wordy and I may have missed this bit in your post due to eating and reading at the same time.

Do you think racist parents hiring a private tutor to teach their views to their kid, as a part of their general education, should be allowed?
 
Basically, all of these mechanisms exist in a libertarian society. Instead of a legally enforced union, you have voluntary unions. @Famine explained exactly how these unions can develop a code of conduct, and result in exactly the sort of controls on teachers that you'd like. Here's the part you don't like - there are a significant number of people that want teachers to teach their kids religious nonsense (apparently @Famine is one of them :lol:). YEC is the example that keeps being brought up because it's the one that is easily seen at odds with facts that kid are often taught. My take on this is that despite the fact that you don't like it, they're not abusing their children. You have to let them teach their values to their kids (whether it's a hired hand or not).

What kids have a right to learn is the tools to learn more. Communication and logic (reading and math) are those tools - and it's what each parent is obliged to provide their child. A child that grows up the victim of a rights abuse in education is not able to effectively use currency. They have no grasp on basic mathematics and so they're impossible to employ. They have no ability to read, or extremely limited ability to read so they can't teach themselves. They have no ability to speak, or limited ability to speak, so they can't express their needs. This is what rights violations look like - children who have grown to adults that cannot function.

An adult who holds down a full-time job as an engineer but still believes in Santa Clause is not what a rights violation looks like.

Erm wait. There is no problem with teaching kids "religious nonsense" - I never argued against that. When the nonsense included sexual and racial discrimination of the pupils in the class, that is where my line is drawn. A libertarian society doesn't include protection from this. I can only assume you mistook my position because Operation Trojan Horse was conducted by Islamists. This is purely circumstantial. It wouldn't matter if it was fundamental Christians or neo-nazis; you can substitute any other extremist group in and I would still argue against the protection offered in a libertarian world. Voluntary membership to a union is no substitute (Islamist teacher doesn't sign up, free to teach etc). The same as charity would not be in a suitable option in a UK without the NHS (see healthcare inequity in rankings or studies of healthcare systems).

Rights abuse would probably be where we disagree, or more specifically the extent of those rights (in this case of the child and their education).
 
When the nonsense included sexual and racial discrimination of the pupils in the class, that is where my line is drawn. A libertarian society doesn't include protection from this.
Actually it offers exactly the same protection from that as it does to sexual and racial discrimination of the children in the home.

I'm baffled why your position is different depending on who it is doing the teaching.
 
@Kaisyu

You got wordy and I may have missed this bit in your post due to eating and reading at the same time.

Do you think racist parents hiring a private tutor to teach their views to their kid, as a part of their general education, should be allowed?
I would want the teaching profession to grow in influence in so much as they could lobby for it to be impossible for a child to be subject to racism/sexism in an educational institute or its substitute (eg under a tutor at the home).

Actually it offers exactly the same protection from that as it does to sexual and racial discrimination of the children in the home.

I'm baffled why your position is different depending on who it is doing the teaching.
Are you now saying it would protect against the females being shoved to the side of the class/room in the house? Or the white members of the family forced to sit on white chairs?
 
Are you now saying it would protect against the females being shoved to the side of the class/room in the house? Or the white members of the family forced to sit on white chairs?
Nope.

I'll again express my bewilderment at the way your position changes depending on who is doing the teaching - and add some more confusion at why it changes depending on the type of private property it's in.
 
Erm wait. There is no problem with teaching kids "religious nonsense" - I never argued against that. When the nonsense included sexual and racial discrimination of the pupils in the class, that is where my line is drawn. A libertarian society doesn't include protection from this.

You've been bouncing back and forth between concerns about religion and discrimination - I figured it was all part of the same concern.

A libertarian society includes MORE protection from that than your current society. Right now, if enough people in your country want sexual and racial discrimination in schools, you'd soon find your own kid being taught those things. In a libertarian society, if only a tiny minority want their kid NOT to be taught those things, there will be a school that caters to that minority. From the perspective of making sure that your kid has the opportunities to learn what you want them to, libertarianism is unparalleled.

What you want is the control to prevent ANY kid from being taught those things - and the reason you can't have it in a libertarian society is because teaching those things to children is not a violation of their rights. @Famine points out (over and over) that you agree with that point, as long as it's not a "teacher" who is doing it. You claim that teachers have forgone the right to teach whatever they want to teach the moment they become teachers. I'd agree with you if at any point they signed a contract (to the school, to a union, to a professional society/association, etc.). If they didn't... well then they're free to teach what they want.
 
How are "single parent families" 'broken' exactly? Why is a home 'broken' automatically when there is only one parent living in it?

Families can function much better with only one parent, especially where the second is unfit (or unwilling) to be a parent. Some families lose a parent through no conscious act - is a home in which one parent has died 'broken'? If a wife dies and the husband is left to bring up the children, are his efforts in vain because they're 'broken'?Yeah, but it said "Percent Of Adolescents Who Have Had Sex, Before The Age Of Sixteen", not "Percent Of Adolescents Who Have Willing Had Sex With A Sexual Partner of their Choice, Before The Age Of Sixteen"


That's true if the Father is abusive and clueless about how to rear children, but I haven't been able to find any material that relates to this particular comparison you ask for as it takes time to gather this info. I'd imagine that a violent father would make a child worse, whilst a non-engaging firm but fair one would be able to 'Man the Fort' at least. The term 'broken' could be debateable, but it seems to imply that the home is missing a parent because it didn't work out and is used as a social stigma when a child doesn't stay on the straight and narrow. However I doubt it wouldn't be used if a child lost a parent that resulted in a poor outcome for the child. It would be unfair to use if a child ends up doing well, or better (the breakup actually acts as a stimulus); you only have to hear of some success stories, although they seem to be the exception to the rule.

I'm not a prude by any means, but you seriously have to question why there is so much promiscuity amongst teenagers based on these figures. What's wrong with saving it until they have much more self awareness? Some things are savoured more if people have to wait and earn these things.

As for adolescents having sex before sixteen, I'd say it's a cultural thing now given these numbers and the level of intimate sex education in schools based on this:

Percent Of Adolescents Who Have Had Sex, Before The Age Of Sixteen[16]
Year
Boys
Girls
1964
14%
5%
1974
31%
12%
1991
28%
19%
2001
30%
26%
2008
34%
38%


I did come across this from the Journal of Family and Marriage, where they speculate that the children of widows do fair better than children from divorced couples, but because of their social position:

“Compared with children raised in single-mother families created by the death of the father, children raised in divorced single-mother families have significantly lower levels of education, occupational status, and happiness in adulthood. Yet divorced single mothers are not significantly different than their widowed counterparts in child rearing, gender role, and family values and in religiosity, health-related behaviors, and other dimensions of lifestyle. However, relative to widowed single mothers, divorced single mothers hold lower occupational positions, are more financially stressed, and have a higher rate of participation in the paid labor force. We speculate that the contrasting positions in the social structure of different types of single-mother families may account for observed differences in child outcomes.”

And here's an interesting study from Journal of Family Issues about both Fathers and Mothers as single parents compared to two-parent families:

"Very little is known about the academic performance of children from single-father families. How do they achieve in school relative to children from single-mother and two-parent families? Do the same processes posited to explain the school performance of children from single-mother households account for the educational performance of children in single-father homes? These questions are addressed using a nationally representative sample of 8th graders from the National Longitudinal Study of 1988. Eight different educational outcomes are compared for 409 children in single-father, 3,483 in single-mother, and 14,269 children in biological two-parent families. Children from single-father and single-mother families perform roughly the same in school, but both are outperformed by children from two-parent families. The intervening processes explaining school performance for children from single-father and single-mother families are somewhat different, however. Economic deprivation, or the lack of economic resources, is more useful for understanding the school difficulties of children from single-mother families, whereas interpersonal deprivation, or the lack of interpersonal parental resources, provide a more accurate description for why children from single-father families do poorly in school."

To show the data graphically, you need to subscribe.


Can you say the correlation is causative though (and therefore show that it leads to chaotic civilised society)? I'd say not.

I'd also say low discipline in schools combined with the teaching style employed in state schools today probably plays a big part as well. Group type work with a roaming teacher is surely no match for a passionate teacher who commands respect and rules with an iron fist from the front of the room? I'd like to know if kids from troubled families or whatever can be conditioned with the right schooling, to become civilised? Based on a day private school I went to once for a few years, no harsh punishment was needed - just a sense of right from wrong and combining the two together that amplifies the overall effect. The worst possible punishment was 'six of the best' with a wooden rule that resulted in a throbbing hand for ten minutes.

Then I went to a comprehensive and some kids were very amused at my manners and respect for teachers.....
 
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That's true if the Father is abusive and clueless about how to rear children, but I haven't been able to find any material that relates to this particular comparison you ask for as it takes time to gather this info. I'd imagine that a violent father would make a child worse, whilst a non-engaging firm but fair one would be able to 'Man the Fort' at least.
Wait, why is it dads who are the rubbish ones if one parent is rubbish? Are there no abusive, clueless, violent or perverted mothers now?
The term 'broken' could be debateable, but it seems to imply that the home is missing a parent because it didn't work out
Unfortunately your use of the term and the figures you are posting do not make any distinction between:

Single parent households due to death
Single parent households due to divorce which are better off due to one unfit parent
Two parent households without marriage
Two parent households of the same gender

These are all lumped in with what you're trying to paint as bad - children born through promiscuity with entirely absent second parents and children whose parents are both fit to parent but split up.

Of course neither of those things are automatically a bad home either - any more than a child born to two, married parents is automatically a good home.
I'm not a prude by any means, but you seriously have to question why there is so much promiscuity amongst teenagers based on these figures. What's wrong with saving it until they have much more self awareness?
Sex is fun. Quite a lot of fun. Done safely and responsibly it doesn't matter if you're 14, 16 or 40 when you lose your virginity.

Fixating on it and making it taboo... that is a problem.
 
I would want the teaching profession to grow in influence in so much as they could lobby for it to be impossible for a child to be subject to racism/sexism in an educational institute or its substitute (eg under a tutor at the home).
So you do think you should make any teaching other than in an institution illegal?
 

You'd have no problem with your country effectively washing their hands of certain communities. I guess it's "their problem" right? There's a great irony in championing freedom but not protection to guarantee everyone has the liberty to enjoy them.
Famine
I'll again express my bewilderment at the way your position changes depending on who is doing the teaching - and add some more confusion at why it changes depending on the type of private property it's in.
I find a consultation where we treat one woman as two individuals, and aim to provide benefit for the health of both followed by another in which we're told to kill one of the "individuals" because the other isn't ready confusing. Some things are unanswerable. I'll do my best at saying I might hold the professions in higher regard. Since health is more relatable let's imagine doctors in the libertarian world.

On graduating Dr. Smith probably won't have to hold a licence. He'll be free to be employed like any other individual, like your refuse collector. There will be no professionally agreed upon ethics to bind Dr. Smith. Sure there's the BMA (British Medical Association) but that's an opt in union and you have to pay for membership - "no need for that" he says. Dr. Smith finds work as a junior doctor in a busy district general in London. His first placement is in A+E (ED to Americans), and is under the much loved consultant Dr. Matthews.

Dr. Matthews has turned around the department, improving efficiency and bringing unprecedented income to the hospital's owners. Other juniors revere him, and his quirky style is a hit with patients. All is well, thinks Dr. Smith 2 weeks into his rotation, and he is looking forward to his first grand rounds with Dr. Matthews. He doesn't disappoint, and Dr. Smith is taken in by the instant rapport he builds with his patients and the reassurance he gives them with the thoroughness of the investigations he orders. So many investigations... Too many investigations? And what's with the smell he would occasionally pick up. It was alcohol, but the hand gel never smelt that bad. Curious, Dr. Smith pulled aside some of the doctors under Dr. Matthews. "Oh the drink? Yeah I'm not at his level, but then again he does have a few decades on me!".. "Why the cardiac cath recommendation to cardiology? Why not?".. Hoping to convince himself his outrage was misguided Dr. Smith checked hospital records. Medical costs had gone through the roof in the years following the arrival of Dr. Matthews, earning the hospital millions. Patient outcomes remained the same but death rates had actually increased slightly. Worried Dr. Smith paid even closer attention to the workings of the A+E department. The team was competent, though could have achieved similar results at a fraction of the cost. Disturbingly however there were alarming amounts of dangerous incompetence, and a significant rise in "never" events (things so bad they should never happen) under Dr. Matthews. Juniors were also racing sometimes to correct mistakes made by Dr. Matthews himself when he was on duty during his so called "**** up rounds".

Shocked with what he found Dr. Smith took his evidence to the hospital owners. They said that while they disapprove of drinking on the job, it wasn't illegal. Health UK, the care accreditor brought in after the CQC (Care Quality Commision) were dissolved said they would investigate the findings but not remove the hospital's accreditation. Dr. Smith on the end of his rotation asked what other juniors were planning to do in their future careers. Most were unsure, but one replied: "One day, I want to do what Dr. Matthews has done with this place".
 
You'd have no problem with your country effectively washing their hands of certain communities. I guess it's "their problem" right? There's a great irony in championing freedom but not protection to guarantee everyone has the liberty to enjoy them.
You'll have a lot better time of this if you didn't keep leaping to conclusions and then posting them as rhetorical questions.
I find a consultation where we treat one woman as two individuals, and aim to provide benefit for the health of both followed by another in which we're told to kill one of the "individuals" because the other isn't ready confusing.
Ooo... kay?
Some things are unanswerable.
Not at all. Some things are very difficult to answer and you might not like what the answer is, but when it comes to governance of people you either think they should be allowed their freedom or you don't.
[a story]
Uhh... cool story? Perhaps you missed the last line of this post.

Now have a crack at @Danoff's post and @FoolKiller's question.
 
You'll have a lot better time of this if you didn't keep leaping to conclusions and then posting them as rhetorical questions.
Not sure how it's leaping to conclusions when it's happening to my city right now
Spoiler alert: If you take away all the rules someone, somewhere is going to step in and take control, and if you don't play by them - tough. It is a fact that I would not be allowed to walk in some areas where I live in a kippah if I happened to be Jewish. Again it's a fact that I have friends who were raped by their cousins since before they were ten and told it was "just the way" and the only escape from this mentality was from school/work. Another fact: some families don't want the women to learn English because the woman's place is at the home. You take away the little protection we have for these children and you will see the consequences. Or not since "thank god I don't live there".
Famine
Ooo... kay?
I have to spell it out? You will never understand that logic, and I will never understand yours.
Famione
Not at all. Some things are very difficult to answer and you might not like what the answer is, but when it comes to governance of people you either think they should be allowed their freedom or you don't.Uhh... cool story?
You have no problems with the outcome of that story. If you don't then yes, some things really are unanswerable. That's what makes us individiuals.
Famine
Perhaps you missed the last line of this post.
Yep, a company is going to amend their contracts to get rid of their biggest earner because....why exactly? The board members have a heart? You remember what I was saying about an ideal world mentality?
You've been bouncing back and forth between concerns about religion and discrimination - I figured it was all part of the same concern.
Where? Need to see exactly where you got this from.

Danoff
A libertarian society includes MORE protection from that than your current society.
Errrrr
Famine

Danoff
What you want is the control to prevent ANY kid from being taught those things - and the reason you can't have it in a libertarian society is because teaching those things to children is not a violation of their rights. @Famine points out (over and over) that you agree with that point, as long as it's not a "teacher" who is doing it. You claim that teachers have forgone the right to teach whatever they want to teach the moment they become teachers. I'd agree with you if at any point they signed a contract (to the school, to a union, to a professional society/association, etc.). If they didn't... well then they're free to teach what they want.
Could you show what in a libertarian society would stop my story from happening.
So you do think you should make any teaching other than in an institution illegal?
No of course not. Never said that either.
 
Not sure how it's leaping to conclusions when it's happening to my city right now
It's leaping to conclusions telling me what I'd have no problem with - phrased as a rhetorical question - when I never said anything of the kind.
Spoiler alert: If you take away all the rules someone, somewhere is going to step in and take control, and if you don't play by them - tough. It is a fact that I would not be allowed to walk in some areas where I live in a kippah if I happened to be Jewish. Again it's a fact that I have friends who were raped by their cousins since before they were ten and told it was "just the way" and the only escape from this mentality was from school/work. Another fact: some families don't want the women to learn English because the woman's place is at the home. You take away the little protection we have for these children and you will see the consequences. Or not since "thank god I don't live there".
Okay. You seem quite emotionally attached to an issue and it's causing you to read all sorts of things into other people's posts.

Let's start with you reading the human rights thread. Then follow up with the purpose of government - the sole purpose - being to protect rights.

Now, tell me how a Libertarian society that regards what you wear in public as your choice and any attempt to stop you from wearing what you like as a rights violation would make your life worse than the current version where you're apparently not allowed to wear what you want. Or how a Libertarian society that regards your body as yours to do with what you choose and rape as a rights violation would make life worse for your friends who were raped as children in the current version.
I have to spell it out?
If you like. It seems to be nothing to do with teaching though.
You will never understand that logic, and I will never understand yours.
Yeah, the problem with that is that "my" logic isn't mine. It is logic. I follow where it goes. If you will never understand logic, you've got a problem - but as noted above it seems you're very emotionally attached to something about the subject so it might just be a lapse in this case.
You have no problems with the outcome of that story.
I don't get what the point of the story is. It also seems to be nothing to do with teaching - and it also requires several inconsistent leaps of faith along the way.

You seem to think that a Libertarian society is one that has absolutely no controls, laws, or rules of any kind. This is an error.
If you don't then yes, some things really are unanswerable. That's what makes us individiuals.
Nope. Free will is what makes us individuals. A government that does not recognise free will and seeks to control is what prevents it. Either you think people need to be controlled and ruled or you think they should have freedom.
Yep, a company is going to amend their contracts to get rid of their biggest earner because....why exactly? The board members have a heart? You remember what I was saying about an ideal world mentality?
What are you talking about?
Could you show what in a libertarian society would stop my story from happening.
Contracts. We already did this.
 
Yep, a company is going to amend their contracts to get rid of their biggest earner because....why exactly? The board members have a heart?
That's certainly a possibility, not in the slightest is it idealized either. Where would the laws you want come from anyway? No one cares about morality, but supposedly laws would be passed to protect people?

Also, even if the hospital didn't care, news of poor performance from the doctor driving away patients is a good way to have the whole thing shut down.
 
It's leaping to conclusions telling me what I'd have no problem with - phrased as a rhetorical question - when I never said anything of the kind.
So I'll ask and remove the rhetorical from it. Would you have a problem with it?
Famine
Okay. You seem quite emotionally attached to an issue and it's causing you to read all sorts of things into other people's posts.

Let's start with you reading the human rights thread. Then follow up with the purpose of government - the sole purpose - being to protect rights.

Now, tell me how a Libertarian society that regards what you wear in public as your choice and any attempt to stop you from wearing what you like as a rights violation would make your life worse than the current version where you're apparently not allowed to wear what you want. Or how a Libertarian society that regards your body as yours to do with what you choose and rape as a rights violation would make life worse for your friends who were raped as children in the current version.
Where do you propose these people find out about their rights? How do you report rights violation if you don't even know they're being violated. Remember, you have allowed girls to live and be taught that they are second class citizens. Where does the idea of equal rights even begin to materialise?
Famine
If you like. It seems to be nothing to do with teaching though.
It's a viewpoint. You're trying to ask why my view is different to yours
Famine
Yeah, the problem with that is that "my" logic isn't mine. It is logic. I follow where it goes. If you will never understand logic, you've got a problem - but as noted above it seems you're very emotionally attached to something about the subject so it might just be a lapse in this case.
Logic has limitations, that's why it can't be the sole basis for governance. In my example, you would agree that logically one exists and one doesn't all because of the say so of someone else. The logic is that we treat it as such, but scientifically it is illogical to draw a distinction. Asking a scientist, or a profession grounded in scientific logic to ignore that is confusing to me at times.
Famine
I don't get what the point of the story is. It also seems to be nothing to do with teaching - and it also requires several inconsistent leaps of faith along the way.
Please highlight where.
Let's look at the checkpoints:
-GMC. Even America requires doctors to be licenced, and I'm pretty sure that would be gone in a libertarian world
-Drunk on duty. We have that every now and again now, along with being high on illicit drugs. In a world where drink driving is legal, do you really want to argue that this wouldn't be more of an issue?
-CQC. Definitely gone. Let's have another organisation maintain standards in hospitals. Oh wait..
-Contracts. Again, I'll ask you why would the employers want to create stipulations in their contracts to get rid of their top earner. You think a little bad press is enough for people to take their custom (in this case, their health) to another hospital?
[quofe=Famine]You seem to think that a Libertarian society is one that has absolutely no controls, laws, or rules of any kind. This is an error.[/quote]
No, it just discounts the fact that people will abuse it even more than they do already.
Famine
Nope. Free will is what makes us individuals. A government that does not recognise free will and seeks to control is what prevents it. Either you think people need to be controlled and ruled or you think they should have freedom.
And a government that takes no active part in protecting the most vulnerable populations right to experience it denies them your concept of becoming an individual.
Famine
What are you talking about?Contracts. We already did this.
Again, need to know why they would create contracts to prevent this from happening. It's how they could stop it, not why.
 
Not sure how it's leaping to conclusions when it's happening to my city right now
Spoiler alert: If you take away all the rules someone, somewhere is going to step in and take control, and if you don't play by them - tough. It is a fact that I would not be allowed to walk in some areas where I live in a kippah if I happened to be Jewish.

On public property, this would be a violation of your rights and against the law in a libertarian society.

Again it's a fact that I have friends who were raped by their cousins since before they were ten and told it was "just the way" and the only escape from this mentality was from school/work.

This is also a violation of rights and against the law in a libertarian society.

Another fact: some families don't want the women to learn English because the woman's place is at the home.

Being taught communication is a child's right, and refusing to do so to a child would be against the law in a libertarian society (I explained this).

You take away the little protection we have for these children and you will see the consequences.

See above.

You have no problems with the outcome of that story.

I have a problem with a few big leaps in your story.

Yep, a company is going to amend their contracts to get rid of their biggest earner because....why exactly?

Not amend, put in place to begin with. And the reason is malpractice lawsuits.

Where? Need to see exactly where you got this from.

I found several examples, but in this one you hit both back to back:

They do, it's the private sector. But those educators must still be bound by their professional obligations, and while they could provide a less diverse education, negative discrimination must not be tolerated.

I'm completely against teaching with extremist agendas, whether Christian, Muslim, Orthodox Jewish or extreme atheism.

Could you show what in a libertarian society would stop my story from happening.

Malpractice suits, contracts. Companies don't like losing millions to wrongful death suits when their doctors act irresponsibly.
 
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So I'll ask and remove the rhetorical from it. Would you have a problem with it?
Yes. All people should be treated equally by their representatives.
Where do you propose these people find out about their rights?
Where do they find out about them now?
How do you report rights violation if you don't even know they're being violated.
How do you do that now?
Remember, you have allowed girls to live and be taught that they are second class citizens.
Or boys.
Where does the idea of equal rights even begin to materialise?
Logic.
It's a viewpoint. You're trying to ask why my view is different to yours.
Nope. I'm trying to get you to understand why yours is wrong.
Logic has limitations
Only if you want them to - and then you're not being rational.
that's why it can't be the sole basis for governance.
See above.
In my example, you would agree that logically one exists and one doesn't all because of the say so of someone else.
If it's on the say-so of someone it's subjective and thus not logic.
The logic is that we treat it as such, but scientifically it is illogical to draw a distinction. Asking a scientist, or a profession grounded in scientific logic to ignore that is confusing to me at times.
I am a scientist.
Please highlight where.
Let's look at the checkpoints:
-GMC. Even America requires doctors to be licenced, and I'm pretty sure that would be gone in a libertarian world
Why? We already explained to you earlier the benefits of an agency which contractually requires a higher level of conduct and ethics and how, with the option of free choice, more people would choose a resource governed by that agency for their own consumption.
-Drunk on duty. We have that every now and again now, along with being high on illicit drugs. In a world where drink driving is legal, do you really want to argue that this wouldn't be more of an issue?
Contracts.
-CQC. Definitely gone.
Why?
-Contracts. Again, I'll ask you why would the employers want to create stipulations in their contracts to get rid of their top earner.
Your question makes no sense. Could you express it in a less opaque manner that takes the creation of the contracts as a basis rather than assuming they already exist in a non-Libertarian society?
You think a little bad press is enough for people to take their custom (in this case, their health) to another hospital?
Yep.

When people are responsible for their own health, they're not keen on arsing about with it.

Famine
You seem to think that a Libertarian society is one that has absolutely no controls, laws, or rules of any kind. This is an error.
No, it just discounts the fact that people will abuse it even more than they do already.
Actually, almost all of your posts attacking a Libertarian society are done from the basis of non-existent law, judiciary and policing. More of it follows right here:
And a government that takes no active part in protecting the most vulnerable populations right to experience it denies them your concept of becoming an individual.
See?

Just because the modern, bloated governments of the world ignore their basic duty of protecting rights in favour of whatever it is that'll get them re-elected this month doesn't mean that a government whose sole role is protecting rights will fail to do so. You're arguing for a situation where a government protects the vulnerable - people who through their basic lack of power against people who would deny their rights. A government whose only role is protecting people's rights would do that better.
Again, need to know why they would create contracts to prevent this from happening. It's how they could stop it, not why.
They'd have to.
 
Where do you propose these people find out about their rights?

The bill of rights?

How do you report rights violation if you don't even know they're being violated.

This happens with very young children, usually another adult (teacher? neighbor? doctor? friend's parents?) will call the police.

Where does the idea of equal rights even begin to materialise?

The bill of rights?

Logic has limitations, that's why it can't be the sole basis for governance.

Such as?

In my example, you would agree that logically one exists and one doesn't all because of the say so of someone else.

What example?

The logic is that we treat it as such, but scientifically it is illogical to draw a distinction. Asking a scientist, or a profession grounded in scientific logic to ignore that is confusing to me at times.

I'm lost.

-GMC. Even America requires doctors to be licenced, and I'm pretty sure that would be gone in a libertarian world

It would be gone in law, but not in practice. Many engineers are required to obtain their professional engineering license in the US despite not legally being required to do so. Their companies want to make sure that they pass a threshold of competence before they allow them to build something. This is in part due to legal liability, but also to maintain a quality product. What reason do you have to think that this is not how most hospitals will respond?

-Drunk on duty. We have that every now and again now, along with being high on illicit drugs. In a world where drink driving is legal, do you really want to argue that this wouldn't be more of an issue?

No.

Right now it is legal in the US for you to be drunk while at work in many professions. Many professions. Yet people don't do it because... their employer forbids it... voluntarily.

-CQC. Definitely gone. Let's have another organisation maintain standards in hospitals. Oh wait..

Did you just cite the government struggling to maintain standards?

-Contracts. Again, I'll ask you why would the employers want to create stipulations in their contracts to get rid of their top earner. You think a little bad press is enough for people to take their custom (in this case, their health) to another hospital?

Liability. I watched a law firm push out a 72 year old partner who was responsible for bringing in millions. Their top earner by far over the rest of the firm. But he was too old, too much of a liability, so he was forced to retire. The company did this voluntarily. I suppose you'll ignore this example and continue stating that it would never happen.

And a government that takes no active part in protecting the most vulnerable populations right to experience it denies them your concept of becoming an individual.

...that would be the entire job of the government - protecting the rights of individuals.

Again, need to know why they would create contracts to prevent this from happening. It's how they could stop it, not why.

Actually you've been asking why rather than how. But the how question is easy. Contracts are legally enforceable.
 
I will reply to the points made when I have sufficient time but I thought I'd post a more succinct reason why I don't believe a libertarian philosophy would be a step forward for Britain. This is a video of the recent shooting in St. Louis by their police force. (WARNING: shows a death on camera)

Here are the statistics of gun use in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/police-use-of-firearms-statistics

In the whole of the United Kingdom, in the year 2012-2013 firearms were discharged three times. This is one more than the fatalities from police shootings in a single city in the US in a few months.

Yes, you may say this is a "high crime area", but what happens to our "high crime areas" in a libertarian future?
 
I will reply to the points made when I have sufficient time but I thought I'd post a more succinct reason why I don't believe a libertarian philosophy would be a step forward for Britain. This is a video of the recent shooting in St. Louis by their police force.

Are you using government inadequacies to argue in favor of government again?
 
I will reply to the points made when I have sufficient time but I thought I'd post a more succinct reason why I don't believe a libertarian philosophy would be a step forward for Britain. This is a video of the recent shooting in St. Louis by their police force. (WARNING: shows a death on camera)

Here are the statistics of gun use in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/police-use-of-firearms-statistics

In the whole of the United Kingdom, in the year 2012-2013 firearms were discharged three times. This is one more than the fatalities from police shootings in a single city in the US in a few months.

Yes, you may say this is a "high crime area", but what happens to our "high crime areas" in a libertarian future?
Like I said before, if you wanted to, you could move to gun free zone. I'd probably move out of one and be glad that option was available, no thanks to pointless laws from me.
 
No of course not. Never said that either.
I know you didn't say that. But you think teachers should be equivalent to doctors. If that is so how is private tutoring different than unlicensed medical practicing?
 
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