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[Stonemonkey]

not hardware limits its software limits. the ps3 itself could cope with it it hasa 80gb hard drive enough ram to run it. the ps3's hardware could have it installed on the hdd however its only limits made by sony's operating system (software) that would not let you do it.


they could get around it some how little big planet have just released an update where you can move the saved data to another file where it can be arger letting you save more stuff. anyway if pd are such good friends with sony as people say then sony would change it for pd.

Hard drive is not ram.
Do you have a source for any install size limit in ps3 os?

 

[Seismica]

Do you have a source for any install size limit in ps3 os?

He wasn't the first to mention it. But it intrigues me, if there is no limit why have there been very few games to date, even the games that take up little Hard drive space, that fully install?

The fact the read speed of the HDD and disc drives are so different, means the data has to be in a HDD:BD ratio of 7:1. But most big games of 5GB+ are closer to 1:1 ratios, which means the extra read speed of the HDD is wasted because it has to wait for the disc.

It means the loading times will vary depending on how clever the developers have been with which parts of the game to install. Oblivion: Good partial Install
COD: Bad partial install.

Anyway i'm going to look into it...

 

[Stonemonkey]

He wasn't the first to mention it. But it intrigues me, if there is no limit why have there been very few games to date, even the games that take up little Hard drive space, that fully install?

The fact the read speed of the HDD and disc drives are so different, means the data has to be in a HDD:BD ratio of 7:1. But most big games of 5GB+ are closer to 1:1 ratios, which means the extra read speed of the HDD is wasted because it has to wait for the disc.

It means the loading times will vary depending on how clever the developers have been with which parts of the game to install. Oblivion: Good partial Install
COD: Bad partial install.

Anyway i'm going to look into it...

There's quite a lot of PS3s with 40Gb HDDs, as mine was when I bought it but I ran out of space and stuck in a 160Gb HDD. If games used up more space I'd have run out of space faster so perhaps Sony don't want developers making games that hog more HDD space than they really need.

 

[myke6699]

I beg your pardon? There is NO option to install a whole game to the PS3's HDD on ANY PS3 game.

You are probably thinking of Partial Installs wich some PS3 games have (GT5P being one).

Let me see:

Siren Blood Curse
Flowers
Wipeout
And yes my JPNese version of GT5P

All these games (and a few more) are all full install. The PS3 doesn't have limitation when it comes to installation, it's just that developers decide to do employ partial installation.

 

[evilfoxhound]

Let me see:

Siren Blood Curse
Flowers
Wipeout
And yes my JPNese version of GT5P

PSN games.

Research is your friend

 

[Dravonic]

PSN games.

Research is your friend

I would like to see your source on the installation size limitation please.

 

[Fredzy]

I noticed a few icky things happening in GT5P:

1. When returning from viewing a car in my garage, it seems to take forever to load the main menu again. I never noticed this before.. is it a new development? Maybe.

2. In a race, there's a seemingly abnormal delay between when I tap the shift button on the back of my wheel, the gearchange and the tac needle movement. It's all boogery.

3. There's a delay in the sound change going between forward and rear view.

All this I'm also noticing only now. I don't want this in GT5. I hope my PS3 doesn't melt down... it really doesn't have many hours on it at all. Oh God.

 

[Seismica]

I noticed a few icky things happening in GT5P:

1. When returning from viewing a car in my garage, it seems to take forever to load the main menu again. I never noticed this before.. is it a new development? Maybe.

2. In a race, there's a seemingly abnormal delay between when I tap the shift button on the back of my wheel, the gearchange and the tac needle movement. It's all boogery.

3. There's a delay in the sound change going between forward and rear view.

All this I'm also noticing only now. I don't want this in GT5. I hope my PS3 doesn't melt down... it really doesn't have many hours on it at all. Oh God.

I'm going to ask you, in all honesty, do you care about any of the things you listed?

 

[Fredzy]

I'm going to ask you, in all honesty, do you care about any of the things you listed?

I do, only in the sense that I hope it's not my PS3 dieing.

 

[juniordee]

Guys...when a game loads a level (race, menu, etc), it only reads from the BD (or HDD) the data needed for that event. The game having a massive amount of content vs. only having a few cars / tracks won't change a THING on the amount of loading time it will have.

 

[Seismica]

Guys...when a game loads a level (race, menu, etc), it only reads from the BD (or HDD) the data needed for that event. The game having a massive amount of content vs. only having a few cars / tracks won't change a THING on the amount of loading time it will have.

Yeah but if the entire data isn't organised in such a way as i mentioned, then what you get is variable loading times for the same situation at different points in the game. (i.e. a race at Suzuka might take longer to load than a race at the Nurburgring if Suzuka is on the disc when the other is on the HDD)

Plus, the fact the sound will probably be uncompressed as will be the textures etc. on the Blu-ray disc, the chances are loading screens will be longer than Need for Speed games for example (as i'm pretty sure they compress the data for the Xbox version and just copy it over, despite the fact the blu-ray can hold more data)

 

[juniordee]

Yeah but if the entire data isn't organised in such a way as i mentioned, then what you get is variable loading times for the same situation at different points in the game. (i.e. a race at Suzuka might take longer to load than a race at the Nurburgring if Suzuka is on the HDD when the other is on the disc)

Plus, the fact the sound will probably be uncompressed as will be the textures etc. on the Blu-ray disc, the chances are loading screens will be longer than Need for Speed games for example (as i'm pretty sure they compress the data for the Xbox version and just copy it over, despite the fact the blu-ray can hold more data)

Of course it depends on how organized the data is. But do you really expect PD to have a track installed and some left on the disc? This isn't an issue here. Also, I do agree that having uncompressed sounds will take longer to load than compressed audio like xbox games, but that wouldn't be the only issue here. DVD drives are faster than BD drives. The PS3 makes up for that with it's bigger HDD and faster cpu.

 

[Seismica]

Of course it depends on how organized the data is. But do you really expect PD to have a track installed and some left on the disc? This isn't an issue here. Also, I do agree that having uncompressed sounds will take longer to load than compressed audio like xbox games, but that wouldn't be the only issue here. DVD drives are faster than BD drives. The PS3 makes up for that with it's bigger HDD and faster cpu.

I'm hoping PD spend time optimising the game for loading times. They need to arrange the data to load from the disc and HDD at the same time and minimise the loading times, but without putting too much of the data on the HDD.

Most developers don't bother, or just don't do it properly.

 

[juniordee]

I'm hoping PD spend time optimising the game for loading times. They need to arrange the data to load from the disc and HDD at the same time and minimise the loading times, but without putting too much of the data on the HDD.

Most developers don't bother, or just don't do it properly.

In an ideal world, you would be able to pick what you want to have installed and what to keep on the disc. But I doubt that will ever happen anytime soon.

 

[TokyoDrift]

But Forza 3 gives you the option of a full HDD install.

With it installed, for me, it takes no longer than GT5P to load a race.

GT5 will offer no such option (Due to hardware limits).

Hardware limits? Hmmmm, I have several PSN games fully installed to my hard drive. I also have lots of game content installed to my hard drive. Please explain the hardware limitations you are talking about.

Just because they have currently chosen to not allow full installs from BD-ROM does not mean that is is not possible.

 

[Lain]

All I know is that the loading times in Forza 3 feel twice as long as GT5P's, despite having Forza installed to the hard drive. The loading times of GT5P have never been an issue for me.

 

[snicker3s]

Just 1 point I'd like to make here:
The more love you give your hardware, the less loading time it gives you back. Scratched disks and dusty optical drives causing many many read retries will not help you. Maybe the initial poster should consider this.

The people owning xbox + ps3 comparing loading times also cant really make a fair comparison because of this. Also game developers tweak a lot for different consoles, splitting loads, doing small ingame loads... All very hard to compare...

 

[boblikepie]

I don't see why the loading times would be significantly longer in the final game nor do I think GT5P's loading times are bad. Sure it would be nice for them to be faster, but it's not like it's Forza 3 bad.

...







Yeah it was a cheap shot, I know

haha it may be a cheap shot but it's so true. I was waiting like a couple of minutes at eb the other day just to start a race and then it changed screen and looked like it was the start but it turned out it was another loading screen and i had to wait some more lol

 

[Dravonic]

I noticed a few icky things happening in GT5P:

1. When returning from viewing a car in my garage, it seems to take forever to load the main menu again. I never noticed this before.. is it a new development? Maybe.

2. In a race, there's a seemingly abnormal delay between when I tap the shift button on the back of my wheel, the gearchange and the tac needle movement. It's all boogery.

3. There's a delay in the sound change going between forward and rear view.

All this I'm also noticing only now. I don't want this in GT5. I hope my PS3 doesn't melt down... it really doesn't have many hours on it at all. Oh God.

Try uninstalling it and installing it again. Also, make sure you're not using to much space on your HDD. If it's 80GB, try using only 70GB or your new installs will probably be too fragmented, thus slow to read. Also, try to defragment your drive although I'm not sure you'll be able to do it without hooking it up to a computer.

If nothing of this helps, I'm sorry but your PS3 is probably melting.

 

[Fredzy]

Try uninstalling it and installing it again. Also, make sure you're not using to much space on your HDD. If it's 80GB, try using only 70GB or your new installs will probably be too fragmented, thus slow to read. Also, try to defragment your drive although I'm not sure you'll be able to do it without hooking it up to a computer.

Uninstalling and reinstalling won't affect my save data will it? All I have on my 40 gig PS3 is GT5P and Modern Warfare 2 I'm ok on space.

If nothing of this helps, I'm sorry but your PS3 is probably melting.

lol

 

[Jay]

Uninstalling and reinstalling won't affect my save data will it?

Save data is a seperate file, a much smaller one.

 

[Fredzy]

Save data is a seperate file, a much smaller one.

I figured. Thanks

 

[Dravonic]

Uninstalling and reinstalling won't affect my save data will it? All I have on my 40 gig PS3 is GT5P and Modern Warfare 2 I'm ok on space.

Don't touch anything inside the Saved Data Utility folder and you're safe.

EDIT: Oh, and in the case it's a PS3 melting problem, I suppose it's the HDD that's giving up. If you have another one lying around, try swapping it with your PS3 one and see if it helps.

 

[F2007 PSP]

If they would be as long as in MC: LA remix, that would take out a lot of fun for me

 

[Comatosed]

PSN games.

Research is your friend

Ridge Racer 7 allows you to install the whole game to the HDD, but you have to have the disk in to play it for obvious reasons.

 

[Sureboss]

Yeah but if the entire data isn't organised in such a way as i mentioned, then what you get is variable loading times for the same situation at different points in the game. (i.e. a race at Suzuka might take longer to load than a race at the Nurburgring if Suzuka is on the disc when the other is on the HDD)

Plus, the fact the sound will probably be uncompressed as will be the textures etc. on the Blu-ray disc, the chances are loading screens will be longer than Need for Speed games for example (as i'm pretty sure they compress the data for the Xbox version and just copy it over, despite the fact the blu-ray can hold more data)

I know of a PS3 dev that decompressed sound files on the fly.

 

[Seismica]

I know of a PS3 dev that decompressed sound files on the fly.

The question is, why? The whole point of compression in the first place was to save space on limited storage media such as CDs.

With Blu-ray, no such compression is needed... (yet).

With a partial or full HD install, loading in unison with the disc, the loading times will barely be affected by uncompressed sound files, and then you get better sound quality to boot.

Compressing content when the disc can hold the uncompressed files is just lazy, it means less optimising later.

 

[Dravonic]

The question is, why? The whole point of compression in the first place was to save space on limited storage media such as CDs.

With Blu-ray, no such compression is needed... (yet).

With a partial or full HD install, loading in unison with the disc, the loading times will barely be affected by uncompressed sound files, and then you get better sound quality to boot.

Compressing content when the disc can hold the uncompressed files is just lazy, it means less optimising later.

Not really. Compression is really important to improve loading times. If you have an uncompressed 10MB sound file to read or a compressed 2MB one, which would be faster to load?

Compressing files is not only about making things fit on the disk...

 

[jedaye]

Don't worry about installation times, it is just something you'll do once and that's it.

I think that offline loading times are very average. Race loading times are pretty good, but it's the Dealership that lets Prologue down. Remeber in GT4 how you could easily scroll through the hundreds of Toyota's and it will instantly load? In Prologue it displays small pictures of the cars and you press X, then it shows the full details at different camera angles. Then you press O to go back and then it takes a while to load again.

 

[imtheleprechaun]

Compression also saves memory... Storing it on a BluRay is one thing, but it still has to be loaded into memory along with all the textures and models to be used. Even the current gen of consoles has a serious limitation WRT RAM.

The loading waits in GT4 that bug me the most are from the UI. Waiting for disc reads when you buy parts, and going up and down through the menu system, loading the settings screen, etc. Pisses me off to no end that there's a (was a?) hard drive accessory for the PS2 but there's no official facility to install a game to the HD.