Logitech G25 or G27 Pedals with Nixim Mod Version 2

[Sail IC]

I have a G27 and decided to install the Nixim v2 without the rubber mainly because I wanted to continue to play in socks. I only play GT5 and when using this mod I noticed the following. When applying the breaks so the red braking bar reads full (100%) the car slows down a certain rate. If you then press the breakes a little harder that car slows a bit faster. So my thinking is that the red breaking bar is not totally correct. I also know a person who installed Nixim with the rubber who got slower, and I think it might be because he was not going this extra bit beyond what is displayed as 100% applied breaks.

I like the Nixim mod but in my view its not perfect, at least not for GT5 where there is no possibility to calibrate the break pedal.. Its too light to 80% breaking and its not untill then it firms up. I would have liked to have this positive response earlier round 40% breakes making it easier to modelate part breaking. Its a step up from stock, but not as good in my view as some writes.

 

[Mayaman]

While the perfect pedal price is outrageous I just find it the best pedal out and even better with the tuning kit. Really like my clubsports, but after modding my G27 pedals with perfect pedal and then modding the clutch with the "real clutch" assembly I found the clubsports had to much travel and not enough Resistence even after tweaking with the tuning kit. Once the clubsport 2.0 are out I'm all over them. Good luck with what ever you choose.

 

[fatkrakr]

Whats this "real clutch" assembly you speak of? Im not sure Ive seen or heard of it. Thanks.

 

[Mayaman]

If you look at version 2.0 you'll know what I'm talking about. An assembly that mimics the actuation of a real clutch. I'll have pics when I'm done implementing the rest of my dbox stuff.

 

[NIXIM]

Hi Guys
Thanks for your comments, I have been watching this thread and have a few comments to assist you to get the best from the Pedal mod.

First of all, I know that most of you are happy with the mod right out of the box and simply fit the mod and go drive. Yes I know the improved responce is much better than you are used to with the standard Logitech kit, but to get the best fom it you really must take care of your software settings as the mod was always designed to be set up in conjunction with your software in the first place.
Console users may be disadvantaged here as they are generally limited in terms of software adjustments and pedal settings. In this respect you may be better off fitting the brake mod without the rubber buffer as this will give a smoother build up of resistance in the pedal and make it easier to acheive full travel of the pedal.

PC users generally have much more control over the pedal responce so there sre things you can do to make things even better.

First the brake -
All brakes have an amount of free travel where you press the pedal and nothing happens to the car, this is where the brake pads are moving to close the gap between the pads and brake discs. This effect is simulated by the tight coils in the bake spring which are easy to close. this takes up about 35% of the pedal travel and therefore you set the brake to have a 35% deadzone to go with this.
Then after this point you feel the pedal stiffen as you start to close the looser coils in the brake spring, this is where the pads are gripping the discs and the majority of your light to medium braking is done.
In heavy braking situations when the pedal is being pressed hard then you are also compressing the rubber buffer, in a real car the brake pedal also becomes really hard at this point, and with some practice you to learn to modulate the pedal to find maximum braking without locking the wheels, this is exactly why the rubber buffer is there. To match the game software with what you are feeling you should set your sensitivity to around 75% and then you will find you have even more control of what the car is doing and you won't have to press the pedal quite as hard.
No real car brake ever goes to the floor, but with the Logitech brake we have to allow the pedal to move almost its full distance to get enough potentiometer definition or movement.
But our intention is to give the pedal a wide range of feeling through its movement to assit the driver control, so it should be really stiff towards the end of its travel.
Remember you are hauling a high performance race car down from high speeds in the shortest possible time here, - not mums little shopping buggy as you gently approach the traffic lights at the end of the street, you cannot compare the two driving situations as they are completely different and require different pedal responses. In real racing you really have to place a lot of force in the brake pedal.

the Clutch -
Yes the clutch is also quite stiff, but again with only 30mm of pedal travel compared to over 100mm in a real clutch it is difficult to achieve the full range of feel that you may be used to.
However 30mm is all you need in a real racing clutch anyway so it is this that we try to mimic. Therefore the sofware settings though simple are far more important than the brake settings to make sense of what you are feeling.
For speed in racing all of the clutch action takes place in a short distance of pedal throw, this is why a racing clutch takes some time to get used to without stalling the engine as soon as you release it. And you may notice that the NIXIM clutch spring is initially very easy to press but becomes rapidly harder to press after a feww mm of pedal movement. So it is vitally important that you set the clutch sensitivity to 100% to set the software to match what you are feeling, if you don't do this the pedal will be just hard to press and make no sense at all.
Try it and I'm sure after a short while you will be making very fast starts off the line with maximum grip and little wheelspin as I do. You will find you can make several places before you reach the first corner.

I feel sure if you use the above settings you will gain immediate improvements in your racing. Have fun guys

Dave

 

[heingericke]

That's a very clear explanation, thanks Nixim. I actually learnt a few things there.

 

[heingericke]

Just to clarify Nixim. I know you don't want to single out any one console game, but seeing this is GT planet, I'm going to ask specifically about gran turismo 5. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're advising leave out the rubber block in the brake spring for GT5 for the reasons you stated about lacking console settings. Got it.

Thanks again.

 

[NIXIM]

Just to clarify Nixim. I know you don't want to single out any one console game, but seeing this is GT planet, I'm going to ask specifically about gran turismo 5. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're advising leave out the rubber block in the brake spring for GT5 for the reasons you stated about lacking console settings. Got it.

Thanks again.

Yes, - also the Rubber buffer was also made slightly too long so it can be trimmed to anyones personal preference.
I would not reduce the length much below 20mm though as it may start to bind between the spring coils.

experimentation is the key do what works for you, thats what real race drivers do.

Dave

 

[zedfonsie]

Just wondering how much stiffer is the nixim throttle spring compared to the stock g27 throttle spring?

The stock g27 throttle spring has no feel and is way too light

 

[NIXIM]

Just wondering how much stiffer is the nixim throttle spring compared to the stock g27 throttle spring?

The stock g27 throttle spring has no feel and is way too light

Hard to quantify so you would easily understand the figures but it strength is about midway between the stock gas and clutch springs.

It is made specifically for people who race in a more upright position where the weight of the leg bears down on the pedal.

Dave

 

[Boiliehead]

I have a G27 and decided to install the Nixim v2 without the rubber mainly because I wanted to continue to play in socks. I only play GT5 and when using this mod I noticed the following. When applying the breaks so the red braking bar reads full (100%) the car slows down a certain rate. If you then press the breakes a little harder that car slows a bit faster. So my thinking is that the red breaking bar is not totally correct. I also know a person who installed Nixim with the rubber who got slower, and I think it might be because he was not going this extra bit beyond what is displayed as 100% applied breaks.

I like the Nixim mod but in my view its not perfect, at least not for GT5 where there is no possibility to calibrate the break pedal.. Its too light to 80% breaking and its not untill then it firms up. I would have liked to have this positive response earlier round 40% breakes making it easier to modelate part breaking. Its a step up from stock, but not as good in my view as some writes.

I've got two wheels dfgt and g27, I always took it in gt5 that the game calibrates your pedals when you press them, if you press brake pedal half way the game pick it up as 100%, until you go by half way then thats your new 100% like it's real time calibrates, I don't use abs so i like my brakes to be dialled in,when i first press brake pedal i usually press with hard pressure whereever the pedal stops is my 100%. I find this method easy to modulate brake pressure without locking up but can if needed if that makes sense.

 

[thedeester1]

Hi Nixim. I was wondering how my original brake mod was delivered so quickly. Now I know Im just down the road from you. Thanks.

I Figure your the person to ask. I have been trying to get a lighter spring to fit in the G25 clutch. Your mods seem to go heavier or progressive. Ive always thought that a lighter spring would be better (Personal of course). Is there any way you could supply a Spring like the original Throttle spring or possibly a bit lighter for me to try in the clutch?

 

[NIXIM]

Hi Nixim. I was wondering how my original brake mod was delivered so quickly. Now I know Im just down the road from you. Thanks.

I Figure your the person to ask. I have been trying to get a lighter spring to fit in the G25 clutch. Your mods seem to go heavier or progressive. Ive always thought that a lighter spring would be better (Personal of course). Is there any way you could supply a Spring like the original Throttle spring or possibly a bit lighter for me to try in the clutch?

Hi,
Can't really give advice on that sort of question here as I'm only here to advise on the use of, rather than market our products.
You would need to email us or ask through our own forums.

Sorry

Dave

 

[GTEYE]

I just had an interesting thought. I read on the forums somewhere that the g25/27 pedals need to be depressed fully once when you start playing GT5 for the full travel to be recognised by the game, and its something that i seem to have noticed too since reading it.

Does the decreased brake pedal throw have any noticeable effects in regards to this? I would assume the game would just use maximum of the smaller travel distance as 100%, but wouldn't that also mean less 'resolution' in the brake input? (if that makes sense)

I would hate to think that with, half the original throw it would mean half the braking resolution. But that doesn't seem to be the case judging by the satisfied reviews in this thread.

I have actually designed and sell an another Progressive Brake Pedal spring for Logitech sets, known as the GTEYE Progressive Brake Pedal Spring. I have taken great care to ensure the pedal travel is unaffected, as this is very important for compatibility with most games.

 

[Sail IC]

I've got two wheels dfgt and g27, I always took it in gt5 that the game calibrates your pedals when you press them, if you press brake pedal half way the game pick it up as 100%, until you go by half way then thats your new 100% like it's real time calibrates, I don't use abs so i like my brakes to be dialled in,when i first press brake pedal i usually press with hard pressure whereever the pedal stops is my 100%. I find this method easy to modulate brake pressure without locking up but can if needed if that makes sense. dfgt had squash ball under brake, g27 has homemade nixim mod version 1, it's basically a section cut from a dogs rubber sausage chew believe it or not.

Intersting note about the calibration in GT5. Didn't know that.

Thanks for the tip and info.

 

[G219]

I've got a question for those that installed Nixim Mod V.2:

Did you oil the springs before you installed them? If yes, what did you use?

I was reading another thread where someone was saying that the springs were dry as opposed to the stock ones that had a bit of oil on them.

Mine have arrived but I won't be home until tomorrow to set it up.

 

[NjLowrider]

The spring looks like it was just machined and had a bit of machine oil on it. I just took it out of the package and popped it in. My original spring didn't have any noticeable lube on it. It's been in there for 100,000 gt5 miles though.

It sounds and feels great. It's not really moving in there, just getting depressed, I don't think lube is gonna make or break anything, it's a spring. Just put it in and enjoy realistic braking!

 

[theofilosz]

OK finally installed mine last night after 6 months+ of having them in the box (my pedals are built in the cockpit and needed a lot of work to come out) I can tell you my first impressions.

I installed both clutch and brake and also added the original clutch spring to the accelerator. The result is heavier feel in all 3 pedals and I am loving it. It demands more strength but on the other hand you have very good feeling on what you are pressing.

Clutch is a lot better because you can feel when you have pressed it and this way there's a lot less misshifts.

The brake is excellent you can get 50-70% with normal strength but after that you have to apply more pressure which is the best approach. Because you should never go for 100% braking.

The accelerator pedal with the clutch (g27) spring is a lot better. You can actually feel when you are 50% on it now.

Overall the kit is excellent because you have excellent information from your pedals now, but I wish I could say the same with the terrible FFB in GT5 (especially with the recent changes). Yes it demands more strength from you but nothing extraordinary, a normal person can adopt to it in a few days or weeks, and you will have better control from the get go!

Reccomended (especially for the low cost of the modification).

 

[thedeester1]

I dont understand the Loving of heavy pedals....A heavy clutch? Why? It should be down and up to change a gear...Fast.....And a heavy accelerator?
Why? you cant guage your right foot? The only pedal you need to feel is the brake!

 

[G219]

Does anybody have an idea for a stripped screw on the clutch pedal? I can't get that screw out and therefore can't take off the cover.

 

[theofilosz]

I dont understand the Loving of heavy pedals....A heavy clutch? Why? It should be down and up to change a gear...Fast.....And a heavy accelerator?
Why? you cant guage your right foot? The only pedal you need to feel is the brake!

Because i do not want to fully press the clutch only the least possible in order to make a fast shift change. With a light clutch i could not feel when i was actually pressing the clutch, now I can understand perfectly how much I have pressed on the clutch. Full pressing on the clutch = slower shifting

As for the accelerator with a very light spring you can't understand very well how much you have pressed on, it was like 0 to 100% for me still the same. Now I can understand better if I am halfway through the accelerator. Well it's still my personal view on the matter and of course it might only work for me, but I still wanted to share with the people in case they help any one.

 

[thedeester1]

Does anybody have an idea for a stripped screw on the clutch pedal? I can't get that screw out and therefore can't take off the cover.

Not sure which screw your on about. If you can get at it you could try cutting a slot in it with a junior hacksaw then using a straight bladed screwdriver. Otherwise you could use a dremel with a cutting disk or a small drill bit (This option is very difficult) to cut the slot.

There are things called "easy outs" where you drill a hole in the screw and then use the "easy out" to get it out but im not sure they make them small enough.

You could always drill the head off the screw if that screw isnt vital for your pedals working?

 

[Sail IC]

I dont understand the Loving of heavy pedals....A heavy clutch? Why? It should be down and up to change a gear...Fast.....And a heavy accelerator?
Why? you cant guage your right foot? The only pedal you need to feel is the brake!

I agree with you. I use a very thin sole shoe on the right foot and socks only for the left foot.

 

[NIXIM]

I agree with you. I use a very thin sole shoe on the right foot and socks only for the left foot.

Then you are not a Simracer - you are someone who likes to play racing games.
Simracing is all about using present technology in terms of hardware or software to drive the simulated car in a way that is as near as posssible to the real car you are driving.

So chase view is out and so is ABS and TC etc if the race car you drive also does not use it in real life - hence "Simracing"

This also applies to your controls, you are not Simracing if your controls do not give you realistic feedback in relation to your realistic control inputs. So if you drive in socks etc - whilst you may be in perfect control and being quite skillful you are not really Simracing at all.
Thats why the NIXIM modded pedals require much more effort to operate, because they were not just developed to give realistic feedback and control from your car, but also to make you the driver drive impart similar forces to your controls to that of a real driver, therefore making things more realistic and immercive.
You will find this trait with everything NIXIM make and do.

And the reason I can say this with such authority -

It was me that coined the term "Simracing" or Simracers" back on the old Race Sim Central forums in June 2004.

There's a bit of history for you

Dave

 

[thedeester1]

Ok its not sim racing cause Im not wearing racing shoes. I can drive both a real car and a sim rig in anything from bare feet to work boots. Ok the boots take a bit of getting used to but after half an hour I have absolutely no problem judging a pedal? Bare feet is OK so long as the pedals dont have sharp bits on them. Ive never driven a car that the pedals were so hard to press they hurt my feet when driving barefoot? When I go abroad I drive barefoot all the time because driving in-flip flops is horrible for me.

 

[NIXIM]

Ok its not sim racing cause Im not wearing racing shoes. I can drive both a real car and a sim rig in anything from bare feet to work boots. Ok the boots take a bit of getting used to but after half an hour I have absolutely no problem judging a pedal? Bare feet is OK so long as the pedals dont have sharp bits on them. Ive never driven a car that the pedals were so hard to press they hurt my feet when driving barefoot? When I go abroad I drive barefoot all the time because driving in-flip flops is horrible for me.

Nah, don't mean to be anal about it, you drive however you want to, its up to you how you enjoy your gaming.
But -
apart from being illegal on the roads in the UK, you cannot drive in barefoot or even socks in a real racecar because of the pressure you need to apply tho the brake or clutch. - particularly the brake.
In some racecars there is'nt even servo assistance and sometimes even when there is you may have to virtually stand on the brake pedal to slow the car as fast as you need to. As I said previously "do not compare braking in a race car with your mums buggy" as these are two completely different worlds of driving. Race driving is a very tiring thing to do and you need to be very fit to compete at the top.

But as I said, if you are driving in socks using auto transmission and chase view then you are hardly simulating what a real driver is experiencing are you?

 

[Boiliehead]

Honestly, some people have all the gear but no idea, brake pedals in real cars are a certain stiffness because of inertia, I know a driver wears seat belts etc, But if you are braking heavy from over 100mph a lot of weight from your body, legs etc is transferred on to the brake pedal. ehhh... summit i have never experienced from being... someone who likes playing racing games.

 

[NIXIM]

Honestly, some people have all the gear but no idea, brake pedals in real cars are a certain stiffness because of inertia, I know a driver wears seat belts etc, But if you are braking heavy from over 100mph a lot of weight from your body, legs etc is transferred on to the brake pedal. ehhh... summit i have never experienced from being... someone who likes playing racing games.

"But if you are braking heavy from over 100mph a lot of weight from your body, legs etc is transferred on to the brake pedal. "

Absolutlely true, and if you have to put some effort into simbraking as opposed to lightly stroking the pedal you will feel more involved with driving the car. If this was not true then we might as well not bother with rigs and expensive wheels pedals and shifters etc and just drive with keyboards or joypads....... you reckon?.

I, like many others - am not a particularly fast driver, but driving with a joypad to me is not driving at all, I have to have a wheel and pedal set to feel like I'm actually driving a car
and to feel fully emerced I have to - indeed want to, have to work at it. and the more realistic effort I have to put into my driving to achieve realistic lap times, the more rewarding Simracing is for me.

True some people may have all the gear but no idea, but if having all the gear makes it feel more realistic and rewarding, then surely winning is not that important is it.

Oh!, and enjoy your racing games won't you?

 

[Boiliehead]

please...nixim mod and gt5= socks and no abs.

 

[NIXIM]

please...nixim mod and gt5= socks and no abs.

Sry, I'm not sure what you meant by your above comment.

But just to clarify anyway-

My definition of simracing is not nessacarily the level of equipment you are using to drive with but more in terms of the quality and realism of the software you are using.

I am not aware of any true simulation of race driving on any console, indeed there are only a few on PC but they are getting better on both platforms. Thats not to say that there are not any good drivng games on console but that is because of what the console market demands rather than the consoles capability.
But when the word "Simracing" was coined it was because there was no proper term for serious simulation games though there was a few games that came under that sort of heading and were indeed termed "Racing Simulation" as opposed to "arcade" racing games. and the game that kicked off serious racing simulation was a game called Grand Prix Legends (GPL), which was released by Papyrus in 1998, this was the best most realistic that could be played on computers of limited processing power then. It depicted F1 racing of cars and tracks circa 1967, i.e. because these cars were not subject to downforce and so computers were not required to simulate it.

But now Simracing is where you drive the cars using whatever you have hardware wise, but at all times using manual gears and cockpit view so you have no driving or driving view advantage over a realistic driving situation.
Simracing is more about the software rather than the hardware. Having the correct hardware makes using realistic software more realistic if not easier to use.

Hope I have explained this ok.

Dave