Looking for alternatives to my "Plan"

[Dagger311]

Okay, so I'm already on my way to getting a learners' permit, which means a license. This also means I'll be wanting (and actually needing) a car. I have a plan worked out, but as everyone knows, plans can change drastically. I'll get to that later.

Before I tell you the plan, I'd just like to point out one thing: This thread is not for arguing or attempting to "Talk me out of" it, this is for me asking for alternatives if something throws a monkey wrench into the works, and the plan has to change.

Now that that's out of the way...

The plan!!!

I'm very close to getting a job, just have to get the legal crap settled, there's plenty of places in need of cashiers or other good first time jobs. Once I end up with one, my dads 2008 Nissan Rogue will do fine for transportation to it while I get my own car.

The budget is anywhere from $1 to $10,000. I'm fully supported by my parents (which I'm incredibly thankful for), so that's in my favor, but do plan to help with the bills a little. I'm not willing to go over ten grand unless absolutely necessary.

The car I've got in mind is a 78-81 Camaro, with a 305 (the most common one) and an automatic transmission. The reason for an auto is it brings the price down, plus I can always put in a manual when I get more experience behind the wheel.

The reasons for picking the car:
Gas mileage is not a problem.
V8 = awesome.
Parts are still stocked in major auto stores (which I live near plenty of).
Reliable (from what I've read).
Easier to work on than a modern car.
Easy to mod/customize.
There are back seats, for If I have more than one passenger, but that's not likely.
Even ones in exceptional condition can go for under ten grand.

Once I get it (hopefully in running condition), I'll set to work on modding (and restoring it, if necessary) with the help of @Slash. I plan to put cutouts on it (for car shows or a drag strip, if I feel inclined to race it), and convert it to dual exhausts. I'll be keeping the engine mostly stock, but I'll be putting a different camshaft in for sure. As for suspension I'm not sure yet.

Once I've got it the way I want it, it will serve every purpose I want it to (taking me to work, looking awesome, sounding awesome... ) for quite some time, as long as I can keep it running.

How all of this could go wrong:
Smog-era cars are on an upswing. By the time I have the money saved up and am ready to buy, the price could be out of my budget. There could also end up being none for sale within a reasonable distance.

In the event that the plan backfires and goes bad, I would like to have several other options. That's what I'm asking for here. Options just in case I can't get the one I want. I'll list all of the ones given to me below, plus any I think of.

Alternatives:

A 90's Miata.

By far not my first choice, but it does have two things going for it:
Price.
And being a convertible.

It gets hot here, so letting the top down is a nice feature.

2007-ish Honda Civic.

The good things about this are:

I'm sure it's cheap on insurance, and even cheaper on gas (not that gas is a huge problem in the first place).
Reliability (although our accord can't attest to that).
Really cheap maintenance.

The problem would be it has all those modern computers that make it harder to work on.

1997-2008 Ford Taurus. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/looking-for-alternatives-to-my-plan.310983/#post-9745919 pictures and great info here.

A 90's-2000's crown vic interceptor.

Definitely reliable, cops depended on them for years!

98-02 F-body. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...natives-to-my-plan.310983/page-2#post-9747121 I'm actually really fond of the way this looks.

94-04 SN-94. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...natives-to-my-plan.310983/page-2#post-9747121

 

[Slash]

That year Camaro would be a decent starter car. The only issues I see with it is the general neglect that they are prone to. Top that off with maintenance that will be obviously more than a modern car and it adds up quick.

That said, 305 cars with the auto aren't exactly powerful, so that's not something I'd worry about. Personally, the sound you get from it alone makes it worth it. Remember, the Z/28 350's were barely pushing 160 horsepower.

Gas mileage, we discussed this and you made it known that it is not a priority.

You also said you were quoted for insurance and it wasn't all that ridiculous for someone your age.

I'd say go for the Camaro. You've got time to save up the cash before you'll even get it anyways, and buy the time you have the money you'll probably be my age now. I know plenty of guys my age that drive older cars and their only complaint is the MPG's. But then again, they can't keep their foot out of it

Except I wouldn't go for a high dollar car. Start with something like this:

 

[Dagger311]

That year Camaro would be a decent starter car. The only issues I see with it is the general neglect that they are prone to. Top that off with maintenance that will be obviously more than a modern car and it adds up quick.

That said, 305 cars with the auto aren't exactly powerful, so that's not something I'd worry about. Personally, the sound you get from it alone makes it worth it. Remember, the Z/28 350's were barely pushing 160 horsepower.

Gas mileage, we discussed this and you made it known that it is not a priority.

You also said you were quoted for insurance and it wasn't all that ridiculous for someone your age.

I'd say go for the Camaro. You've got time to save up the cash before you'll even get it anyways, and buy the time you have the money you'll probably be my age now. I know plenty of guys my age that drive older cars and their only complaint is the MPG's. But then again, they can't keep their foot out of it

Except I wouldn't go for a high dollar car. Start with something like this:

Well, I wasn't exactly quoted, I was told by others on a camaro forum that it's not too bad. I'm a young driver though, so it is going to be a little rougher on me.

As for maintenance, I'll be trying to do most of it myself, so it shouldn't be terrible.

Power isn't a worry. You said the torque and the sound will make you feel like you're going fast enough .

And love the flag hanging out of that .

 

[Slash]

Yeah, being that it's not an outright performance car I wouldn't think it's too bad. 4 pot cars make more power these days. The only thing I'd worry about is the stigma attached to the Camaro name. That's probably where the insurance companies will get you, no matter the specs.

You'll learn a lot that way 👍

It indeed will. But the motor will fall flat on it's face at 4,000rpm. It's not too fast either.

 

[Dagger311]

Yeah, that's what I was worrying about. The name itself may end up adding some price.

That's the plan 👍.

That's fine. I don't really need it to be insanely fast, just not insanely slow either. I checked 0-60 times and it's actually about the same as the Rogue.

 

[Slash]

I'm guessing 10 seconds full throttle.

 

[Dagger311]

It's anywhere from 8 to 12 seconds, depending on condition. The rogue is about ten seconds.

Underline thing is stuck on for some reason...

 

[GranTurismo916]

How about a E34 BMW? A BMW as a first car might sound a bit weird but you can get these for way under 10k, and they hold up pretty well from what I've read.

 

[Dagger311]

How about a E34 BMW? A BMW as a first car might sound a bit weird but you can get these for way under 10k, and they hold up pretty well from what I've read.

A BMW? I'd be a little worried about insurance (the name itself is associated with luxury ), but I'll definitely have a look at them.

 

[GranTurismo916]

A BMW? I'd be a little worried about insurance (the name itself is associated with luxury ), but I'll definitely have a look at them.

Talk to @Doog.

 

[Slash]

A BMW? I'd be a little worried about insurance (the name itself is associated with luxury ), but I'll definitely have a look at them.

Maintenance I have heard is extremely expensive.

 

[Dagger311]

Talk to @Doog.

I will when he comes back .

But seriously, insurance is the biggest worry, just because it's monthly and more than likely going to be rough on a younger driver.

Maintenance I have heard is extremely expensive.

I wouldn't guess it'd be much higher than the Camaro. Problem is, it'd be harder to work on.

 

[GranTurismo916]

I wouldn't guess it'd be much higher than the Camaro. Problem is, it'd be harder to work on.

True, the Camaro is more of a blank canvas.

 

[Slash]

I wouldn't guess it'd be much higher than the Camaro. Problem is, it'd be harder to work on.

You have no idea.

 

[Dagger311]

You have no idea.

I actually don't .

 

[Slash]

Luxury is not cheap to repair.

 

[Dagger311]

Alright, I've done some checking on it. Maintenance and insurance are going to end up being a little higher than I'd like, plus it's not as easy to customize.

It is a neat car though, maybe if I ever want a luxury sedan .

 

[Slash]

Better off with the Camaro then.

 

[GranTurismo916]

Ok, it's bias tymeeeee:

Get an Impreza. Just a base model or even a 2.5RS. Come on. You know you want to do it.

 

[Dagger311]

I actually considered them when I thought I may not be able to get a job close by, but more than likely I'll be able to. Bias says no .

 

[SVX]

Your first car doesn't have to be modifiable. My advice is get something easy to drive and cheap to run. That way you can have some experience behind the wheel before you start having masses of power. And it's never really a good idea to have your daily your project.

Since you have such a large budget, I suggest a Corolla, Civic or anything similar. If you must have a sporty car, an E30 or Miata might be good.

 

[XxKaitoShionxX]

Maintenance I have heard is extremely expensive.

My dad owns a 2007 328i and the thing that costs is taking it into the Bmw dealer if anything goes wrong. Changing the battery of his car costs about 1k in the Bmw dealer which 🤬 stupid doing it yourself doesn't cost anything but you have to have experience with Bimmers or else so something would go very wrong since these cars are very delicate.

 

[Dagger311]

Your first car doesn't have to be modifiable. My advice is get something easy to drive and cheap to run. That way you can have some experience behind the wheel before you start having masses of power. And it's never really a good idea to have your daily your project.

Since you have such a large budget, I suggest a Corolla, Civic or anything similar. If you must have a sporty car, an E30 or Miata might be good.

While it doesn't have to be modifiable, I'd like it to be, because I plan to just keep upgrading it as I need/want more power. It does have to be easy to work on though, because I want to be the one repairing it.

My daily would be the rogue while it's still a project.

I'll definitely look into your suggestions though. Mom says Civic as well .

My dad owns a 2007 328i and the thing that costs is taking it into the Bmw dealer if anything goes wrong. Changing the battery of his car costs about 1k in the Bmw dealer which 🤬 stupid doing it yourself doesn't cost anything but you have to have experience with Bimmers or else so something would go very wrong since these cars are very delicate.

No BMWs for me then .

 

[Slash]

Your first car doesn't have to be modifiable. My advice is get something easy to drive and cheap to run. That way you can have some experience behind the wheel before you start having masses of power. And it's never really a good idea to have your daily your project.

Since you have such a large budget, I suggest a Corolla, Civic or anything similar. If you must have a sporty car, an E30 or Miata might be good.

I'd argue gas is the most expensive part of owning this generation Camaro.

 

[Dagger311]

I'd argue gas is the most expensive part of owning this generation Camaro.

You're probably right, judging only by the fact that parts are still readily available (with the exception of hoods and taillights, a bit harder to find), and the lessened need for a guy to be paid 100/hour to fix technology.

Anyway, added the civic, it was a good suggestion, and is most definitely a fallback option.

 

[Joey D]

Your first car doesn't have to be modifiable. My advice is get something easy to drive and cheap to run. That way you can have some experience behind the wheel before you start having masses of power. And it's never really a good idea to have your daily your project.

Since you have such a large budget, I suggest a Corolla, Civic or anything similar. If you must have a sporty car, an E30 or Miata might be good.

Hey look, sound advice that will almost always get ignored. The best first car is something that you can learn how to drive properly and something that will be the least tempting to hoon.

I've always said a great first car would be a first gen Dodge Neon Sport or R/T with a 5-speed. They are sporty, easy to fix, reliable apart from the head gasket that Chrysler forgot to engineer, and when you crash it there are one million of them in a junkyard to get parts out of.

Luxury is not cheap to repair.

Luxury doesn't have to be expensive, it's only expensive if you take it to the dealer. Most independent shops are much cheaper and if you buy the repair manual you can pretty much figure out how to do anything you need too. The electrics would be the biggest issue, but that's an issue with almost any car.

 

[Slash]

I don't understand why it needs to be a newer car. This car is exactly everything those cars are as well just older and arguably simpler to work on and keep maintained. And to top that off, its not even powerful. Hell, a Corolla could dust one.


I understand the concern but this generation Camaro isn't even that good overall until you start to get into it.

He doesn't want to make it into a fire breather. He doesn't want anything crazy fast. He's told me straight up that he's not looking to kill himself.

This car has everything he wats. Its reliable, its simple to work on, its cheap to insure and maintain. He doesn't even care that it gets cruddy gas mileage. He just wants a nice cruiser car to cart himself around an can keep for the rest of his life. This car just has the added benefit of being easily and cheaply modifyable if he ever so chooses to go that route without breaking the bank.

And no computers. Basic electronics for your lights and gauges.


It would be different if he was looking for a 440 Barracuda or a Ferrari. This car is dull and boring, but it doesn't always have to be that way. Its a nice way to start.

 

[Joey D]

Old cars can easily turn into money pits, whereas newer cars with simple features tend not to be money pits. Plus you will almost certain wreck your first car, it's far easier to repair a boring FWD sedan from the 90's or 00's than to repair something from the 70's. Newer cars are also way safer for when you do get into your wreck.

 

[Dagger311]

I don't understand why it needs to be a newer car. This car is exactly everything those cars are as well just older and arguably simpler to work on and keep maintained. And to top that off, its not even powerful. Hell, a Corolla could dust one.


I understand the concern but this generation Camaro isn't even that good overall until you start to get into it.

He doesn't want to make it into a fire breather. He doesn't want anything crazy fast. He's told me straight up that he's not looking to kill himself.

This car has everything he wats. Its reliable, its simple to work on, its cheap to insure and maintain. He doesn't even care that it gets cruddy gas mileage. He just wants a nice cruiser car to cart himself around an can keep for the rest of his life. This car just has the added benefit of being easily and cheaply modifyable if he ever so chooses to go that route without breaking the bank.

And no computers. Basic electronics for your lights and gauges.


It would be different if he was looking for a 440 Barracuda or a Ferrari. This car is dull and boring, but it doesn't always have to be that way. Its a nice way to start.

He just summed it up better than I could have. We discussed this over facebook. I'm looking for something to have some fun with on my way to work and back, not something to go speeding 100mph on the highway in (not that this could even get that fast without a little help ). I don't want to die before I'm 20 . I've always been a huge fan of GM as well, so that's a plus.

When I'm ready for more power, I can add it. That's what I like about this one. It could last me forever.

 

[RVDNuT374]

I will suggest this as a first car until I get banned from posting it numerous times , but:

1996-2007 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable-

You can easily pick one up in great condition for around $1500-4000. Despite what you may have read, these cars actually handle fairly well for what they are, especially with better tires. Power is adequate with the more common Vulcan V6, plentiful with the higher output but less common Duratec V6. These cars never came with a manual transmission, only a 4-speed automatic which is a bit on the fragile side, so pay close attention to how the transmission shifts if you decide to test drive one. Other trouble spots are the factory coolant tank in the 96-02's develops cracks in it after while; OEM replacements run about $60. Don't even bother with the cheap Chinese aftermarket tank which will more than likely fail in just a few months. Also, change the coolant in the Vulcan engine at no longer of an interval than every 2 years; it is infamous for rust in the cooling system which can lead to very bad things. Finally, watch out if the rear of the car is sagging, that means the struts/springs are shot and replacement is apparently very expensive. If anybody asks why I am a strong supporter of this car, I've been the proud owner of one for nearly nine years with little trouble. 👍 The only non-maintenance items I've had to change out were the fuel pump (very expensive , but I'm fairly confident the Motorcraft replacement unit is not made in China) and the mentioned coolant tank. Replacement parts are readily available and reasonably priced. Also, insurance rates should not be any issue considering it's a family sedan.