Loose change conspiracy

[FoolKiller]

Great link, FK. Thanks for posting it.

I'm so tired of this conspiracy horsecrap.

I have to give the credit to Viper Zero who originally posted it in the now locked "World Trade Center - Controlled Destruction" thread. That was the first time I saw it but I have found it incredibly useful since.

 

[Pupik]

This article intentionally left blank
Except for this message box claiming blankness
Which is probably just a figment of your imagination anyway
Why don't you go somewhere else and stop worrying about it!

 

[KaffeinE 86]

Maybe the people who made this should stop saying "BUSH PUT THEM THERE" and let people know that the religious radicals (more like cultists) who knocked over the WTC and hit the Pentagon were sought out and trained by the CIA in the 1980's to kill Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan. Oh yeah, and the crimes we pin on Saddam Hussein (Kurd slaughter etc) would not have been possible were it not for our removing Iraq from our list of state sponsors of terrorism (1980) so we could sell weapons to them, including chemical weapons, so they may use them on Iranian soldiers.

Thank you, Ronald Reagan. During your presidency both these monsters were raised by the organizations that exist to protect us.

 

[FoolKiller]

Maybe the people who made this should stop saying "BUSH PUT THEM THERE" and let people know that the religious radicals (more like cultists) who knocked over the WTC and hit the Pentagon were sought out and trained by the CIA in the 1980's to kill Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan. Oh yeah, and the crimes we pin on Saddam Hussein (Kurd slaughter etc) would not have been possible were it not for our removing Iraq from our list of state sponsors of terrorism (1980) so we could sell weapons to them, including chemical weapons, so they may use them on Iranian soldiers.

Thank you, Ronald Reagan. During your presidency both these monsters were raised by the organizations that exist to protect us.

Yes, thank you Ronald Reagan for not seeing that 20 years down the road we would be stabbed in the back by our allies. You were supposed to be psychic nad should have told us these things would happen.

I guess Europe should have seen Germany creating the problems they did before World War I and World War II as well? Maybe China should have known Japan would becaome power crazy before World War II. Russia should have never signed a treaty with Hitler before World War II. The Indians shouldn't have trusted the Pilgrims or the Spanish.

I can go on like this all day long. These things have been happening since the beginning of civilization. It is called getting stabbed in the back. It happens all the time in international affairs and often the end result is war.

 

[KaffeinE 86]

Yes, thank you Ronald Reagan for not seeing that 20 years down the road we would be stabbed in the back by our allies. You were supposed to be psychic nad should have told us these things would happen.

I guess Europe should have seen Germany creating the problems they did before World War I and World War II as well? Maybe China should have known Japan would becaome power crazy before World War II. Russia should have never signed a treaty with Hitler before World War II. The Indians shouldn't have trusted the Pilgrims or the Spanish.

I can go on like this all day long. These things have been happening since the beginning of civilization. It is called getting stabbed in the back. It happens all the time in international affairs and often the end result is war.

What else do you expect when you sell oodles of weapons to a state sponsor of terrorism? Someone who has no scruples? We knew Saddam was a bad guy before Desert Storm.

As for Germany before World War I, they were allies with Austria-Hungary and would've acted against anyone Austria-Hungary acted against. Japan was already power-hungry before World War II. They were modernizing and militarizing for about a half-century before WWII. The USSR and Germany were ideological enemies; Stalin was a moron for thinking Hitler wouldn't attack him. And no, Native Americans shouldn't have trusted Europeans.

 

[Zardoz]

We were so incensed at the Iranians for the hostage fiasco that we were irrational in our thinking toward them. Any enemy of theirs was a friend of ours. Anything we could do to them was justifiable in our state of mind back then.

Compared to Khomeini and his jackals, Saddam actually looked pretty good to us. Sure, we knew all about him, but he was making war on Iran, so we figured he could serve a purpose for us.

It was a unique situation where we despised both sides in a major war, and wanted both to lose. I read quotes to that effect from several administration officials over the years.

 

[Zardoz]

And now there will be a movie about Flight 93:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/flight93/

I hope they do a good job on it.

 

[FoolKiller]

And now there will be a movie about Flight 93:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/flight93/

I hope they do a good job on it.

They did an interview with one of the actors this morning and he said there is no agenda or conspiracy theory, just the story of the port authority officers who lost their lives. It is from their point of view so it leaves little room for politicizing.

This kind of movie is right up Oliver Stone's alley so I imagine that it will be good.

 

[Duke]

They did an interview with one of the actors this morning and he said there is no agenda or conspiracy theory, just the story of the port authority officers who lost their lives. It is from their point of view so it leaves little room for politicizing.

This kind of movie is right up Oliver Stone's alley so I imagine that it will be good.

You're joking, right? Oliver Stone can and will politicize anything. There's no way he'll avoid the temptation here.

 

[FoolKiller]

You're joking, right? Oliver Stone can and will politicize anything. There's no way he'll avoid the temptation here.

I just report what I heard.

He said there is no we did it conspiracy, no we deserved it message, and no we let it happen conspiracy.

I am like you though, I will reserve judgement until I see the movie.

 

[niky]

You're joking, right? Oliver Stone can and will politicize anything. There's no way he'll avoid the temptation here.

Oh no... Oliver Stone would never pander to conspiracy nuts... I mean, look at JFK. He's a straight shooter.

 

[Pupik]

I mean, look at JFK. He's a straight shooter.

Erm, Back...and to the left...back...and to the left...back...and to the left...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Jondot]

Why do i get the feeling that google have removed the video?

 

[Canadian Speed]

Perhaps the Bush admin have had it removed along with all the other video footage they took and never released from several locations that would have seen the flying object that struck the Pentagon... As far as conspiracy’s go, this is one of my faves, if only for the fact that the Bush administration has always been shrouded in conspiracy… I mean look at the fiascos that took place in both elections… Never has a president had so much conspiracy surround him… Maybe not beating out Nixon and JFK (though they’re really one story anyhow). There is just too much information on both sides that has to be cleared up. Why wouldn’t they let all the info out to the public to prevent this kind of thing? Maybe they’re hiding something from the people? Who knows? But to simply state “he never did it” and “everything is as it seems” is far to innocent of people. Until undisputed proof is given, then nothing can be solved. For every person that says one thing on this particular subject, there’s another that says something completely different. And the real hard part is finding people who are truly impartial. No one is above personal/family safety and/or bribes in this day and age… Do I think Bush is guilty of some crimes? For sure. Do I think he ordered the planes crashed into the buildings? That’s a bit far fetched. Did he mind that it happened? Not one bit, it got him the war that got him reelected, rich off of his tank companies stock, and one step closer to that black substance he so craves… What is that again? Oh Yeah! Oil. And what self respecting Texan wants anything to do with that stuff? Not to mention that chance to finally show his old man that he finally beat him at something (getting Saddam, I’m guessing Osama will have to wait for Jeb). He’s a snake and once he gets out of power and if the story ever comes to light, I think he’ll open everyone’s eyes to the dangers of absolute power and blind faith in rich and greedy men. Basically, if you follow any one thing blindly, you’re cattle to the slaughter. Question everything…

I’m sure they (the real inner core of the American government) took John Kerry aside one day and brought him into a dark room where The Smoking Man from the X Files was seated. In the middle of the room was another chair placed in front of a television set and a VCR. John took a seat and a movie started. It looked like a picnic in a parking lot, the film was old, but in relatively good condition. All of a sudden John notices the book depository, but from an angle he’d never seen before, and he notices the window where Oswald was supposed to be was empty. Moments later shots ring out and the camera turn to find a young and handsome George Bush senior with a rifle cocked on his hip and a cigar in his mouth laughing “He Mah, did you see that fancy boy’s head come apart? The look on his wife’s face was priceless.” The video ends, the lights go back on and The Smoking man simply asks “Any questions? You could be the next JFK.” (Obviously kidding, though in bad taste, but John initials are strangely the same).

P.S. I'm sure the Patriot Act is 100% innocent as well...

 

[Zardoz]

As far as conspiracy’s go, this is one of my faves...

Just curious: How many people do you think would have to be involved to pull this off, and how many federal, state, county, and local agencies would have to a part of it?

And just what exactly would be their motivation for participating in a conspiracy to murder many thousands of people? Why would so many individuals be willing to do this?

 

[Small_Fryz]

how come the towers fell straight down? Why didnt half fall over or it fall down sideways?

I dont know what to belive really, Its one of those things we just may never find out..

 

[Zardoz]

how come the towers fell straight down? Why didnt half fall over or it fall down sideways?

Pick something up. Drop it. Does it fall sideways?

 

[niky]

Even better, take an 18 wheeler, raise it up fifty feet with a crane. Stand under it and try to push it to the side as it falls... ain't easy to make something heavy fall sideways, now, is it?

 

[Canadian Speed]

Just curious: How many people do you think would have to be involved to pull this off, and how many federal, state, county, and local agencies would have to a part of it?

And just what exactly would be their motivation for participating in a conspiracy to murder many thousands of people? Why would so many individuals be willing to do this?

Oh, we're talking many many people... At the very least a couple SEAL teams dressed in civis and a flight crews uniforms... And a group of secret society nuts A.K.A. Skull and Bones...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

The CIA and that's about it, really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA

The US already ignored the UN. And who'e gonne believe Iraq, Iran, or any of the other contries in the middle East? After all, they "crashed planes into the WTC"... Oh, sorry, my mistake, it was Osamah in Afganistan... But who's gonna believe him any how... One thing to ponder. I saw Tom Hanks rush the Germans at Normandy, and I saw a 25 foot tall ape steal a woman. You can't believe everything you see either. Bush also controls a large part of the media...

I don't "beleive" in the whole thing to the point of retardation, but for a couple billion dollars from oil, if not a trillion, and a strangle hold on a contry such as the United States, if not the world, people would do pretty much anything. Money and power are very VERY big incentives for some people. Hell, even I could probably go out and offer 5 grand to someone to kill someone and my chances of getting someone to bite are better then most if I'm asking in the right circles. And the chances of it getting out are slim to none. Raise the money number to over a million, add in personal and family safety, and I bet I could get people to consider it very seriously in any circle as long as they know I'll make good on the promise. In then end, there's nothing that money and power can't acheive. One example... and only one example of a botched cover up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam

What this doesn't really talk about that much is the cover up that was underway to stop people from knowing this ever happened. When ever the "world" does something wrong, the Americans catch a lot of stuff... But who's there to watch the watchdog?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18953-2004Jun5.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A30275-2005Mar12

People go missing all the time at the hands of various governments. What makes the US above all of that? What really keeps them from doing it to their own people? Well the precieved notion that they're the good guys...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_family_conspiracy_theory

This last one is just a little something I put in here as and added reason not to take everything at face value from the Bush Admin... More conspiracy, but it raises some good points, as well as counter points, so although it's one sided, it's not a 100% Bush bashing. But it's enough to at least make me think twice about taking everything he and his admin say at face value. If it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck, and it smells like a duck... It might not be a duck... But it sure has a good chance of being just that.

I just think it's more fun to question then to blindly follow... They are called conspiracy "theories" for a reason... Because they aren't prooven and never will be beyond the shadow of a doubt... It's just fun to speculate...

 

[Small_Fryz]

Pick something up. Drop it. Does it fall sideways?

make a structure, then put a hole in the side of it and see if it falls straight down.

 

[Canadian Speed]

make a structure, then put a hole in the side of it and see if it falls straight down.

Like chopping down a tree? I can sort of see where you're going with that... Also, I thought that the bases of most huge buildings were made to take a lot of side to side motion due to winds and potential earth quakes. I've never really seen many buildings fall straight down unless they were demoed. I've seen a few fall over onto their sides though...

 

[Kylehnat]

The hole in the side of the building did not cause it to fail. (You may remember the towers stood for quite a while after impact). The fire inside caused the floor structures to fail, so everything failed downward, not outward.

 

[Canadian Speed]

The hole in the side of the building did not cause it to fail. (You may remember the towers stood for quite a while after impact). The fire inside caused the floor structures to fail, so everything failed downward, not outward.

Though... one side was clearly weakend by the blast. Wouldn't it possibly have fallen over at the middle where the fire was then causing the rest of it to topple over with it?

 

[FoolKiller]

Though... one side was clearly weakend by the blast. Wouldn't it possibly have fallen over at the middle where the fire was then causing the rest of it to topple over with it?

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the windows were what supported a building. I was under the impression that it was a central support structure, whihc is usually inside the building and hidden by a facade. If the support on that one side had ben weakened by the plane crash the building would have begun to sag to the side, but the central support was still in place and eventually gave in under its own weight as the heat from the flames weakend the steel.

Bush also controls a large part of the media...

Please, back that up.



I can't believe that this thread even came back up. I thought two months was long enough, I even deleted it from my subscribed threads list.

Anyway, I will repost the Popular Science article that I posted before where they go through The Loose Change Conspiracy video and explain, with experts and photos, how the towers fell and manage to debunk every major point. Thsi will be the second time I posted this in this thread and at least the third, maybe fourth, time that it has been posted at GTP.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

You know, Canadian Speed, you talk about not just believing everything you are told. That is fine and good but be sure to listen to yourself when you look at The Loose Change Conspiracy. They conveniently gloss over details or flatout lie. Example: They claim that there was no plane wreckage found at the Pentagon site. I have seen pictures (some in the article I just posted) that are different from the ones TLC show and they have pieces of wreckage with part of the airline logo and even one with the landing gear inside the Pentagon. The moment a conspiracy shows ignorance or dishonesty it completely falls apart and TLC has done that in my book.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the windows were what supported a building. I was under the impression that it was a central support structure, whihc is usually inside the building and hidden by a facade. If the support on that one side had ben weakened by the plane crash the building would have begun to sag to the side, but the central support was still in place and eventually gave in under its own weight as the heat from the flames weakend the steel.

Even still wouldnt some part of the structure fail before another, causing the building to sag to one side? if you take a chair, then take away 1 leg what happens?

I'm by no means supporting some conspiracy theory, while i dont rule out some things have probably been covered up, i still dont really know what to belive.

However i just want to know why the towers fell down like they did, BOTH fell identical to each other, what are the chances of that?

 

[Swift]

Even still wouldnt some part of the structure fail before another, causing the building to sag to one side? if you take a chair, then take away 1 leg what happens?

If that chair was built like the twin towers with the main support in the center...not a whole lot.

 

[FoolKiller]

Even still wouldnt some part of the structure fail before another, causing the building to sag to one side? if you take a chair, then take away 1 leg what happens?

Kind of like Swift said, you would need that chair to have it's main support in the center and have it designed to hold itself up with one support damaged.

The towers were built to withstand the plan impact, it was a foreseen possibility. It was the heat of the jet fuel burning that began to soften the steel support system until it just gave in. At that point all the floors from above slammed down on the floors below. The still solid support system below could not withstand the weight of the above floors when it was slammed down with the momentum of a 10-15 foot fall behind it. It is like jumping on a scale. When you hit the needle flies all the way to the end and then settles back on your actual weight after the force of the impact has passed. That force caused a chain reaction of each subsequent floor's supports to give in.

However i just want to know why the towers fell down like they did, BOTH fell identical to each other, what are the chances of that?

Not exactly. The second tower to be hit was the first tower to fall. It took longer for the first tower to get hit to fall. The second tower hit was hit lower down, this meant that there was more weight from above pressing down on the weakened structure.

Yes, the pancacking effect was nearly identical. But the building supports were nearly identical and the type of damage was nearly identical. I mean, if two exact models of cars hit a brick wall at nearly the same speeds they will crumple in nearly identical ways. If all the variables are the same then the result should be identical, or close to identical. In this case the only variable that changed was where the planes hit. This caused a change in the time it took to cause a collapse. Everything else was the same as was the rest of the result.

 

[Swift]

You guys do realize that the towers were built with two things in mind? 1) Withstand a 737 airliner collusion. 2) Fall straight down and not to side

2) was done so that a few blocks weren't obliterated if/when they fell. Imagine if one of those towers fell sideways. It would take out 6-10 blocks. That's a lot of destruction.

Anyway, there is no conspiracy with the towers, it was a tragic terrorist attack.

 

[Kylehnat]

Can we put a fork in this thread, then?

 

[FoolKiller]

Can we put a fork in this thread, then?

Smartest thing I've heard all day.

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