Makeshift Shuffle Club - Time Trials & Testing for club car lists - all welcomeOpen 

Cars being considered for a club spec 1-make list (tuning prohibited) (cars to have ready)

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
I love the German compound words. :)
I wish you could do that more in English. Like the portmanteau generator. :lol: :lol:


So I would like to call for these cars to be tested if/when people have the chance:

@amarynceos
Laguna Seca
Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '96
Audi S4 '98
(SPORTS HARD)

@amarynceos
Tskuba
BMW 507 '57
Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) '67
(COMFORT SOFT)

@snowgt
Motegi East
Alpine A310 1600VE '73
Ford Taurus SHO '98
Honda Prelude Type S '98
Nissan Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) '78
Nissan Skyline Hard Top 2000 GT-R (KPGC10) '70
Toyota Corolla Levin GT-Apex (AE86) '83
(COMFORT SOFT)

@snowgt
Motegi East
Audi quattro '82
BMW 2002 Turbo '73
Mazda Savanna RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 DOHC Turbo VR-4 '89
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
Nissan Silvia K's (S13) '88
(COMFORT SOFT)

ANYONE:
a track with longer straight parts and/or hills (not a tight track)
Nissan Skyline 2000GT-B (S54B) '67
Honda Civic 1500 3door CX '79
Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 Duetto '66
Marcos Mini Marcos GT '70
(COMFORT SOFT)

ANYONE:
ANY TRACK
Isuzu Bellett 1600 GT-R '69
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale '63
(COMFORT SOFT)

ANYONE:
a bigger track with longer straight parts (not a tight track)
Renault R5 Turbo '80
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupé '54
(COMFORT SOFT)

ANYONE:
ANY TRACK
DMC DeLorean S2 '04
Dome Zero '78
Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
(COMFORT SOFT)
 
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@amarynceos

A few cars I thought might fit that are a bit slower than the Evora and might fit the theme of your list (and are not included on other lists):


Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13 (maybe not "premium" enough. Still fun though.)
Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP '07
Audi TTS Coupe '09

I don't know how much slower they would be (particularily the first 2), they all handle worse than the Evora though. Could also include the '07 350Z, but it would be confusing with the '08 370Z and too similar.
 
watermelon punch
RE: tire wear

The reason the TTs are set to tire wear fast is because we're testing the cars for their performance under racing conditions.
The idea isn't for a driver to get a decent lap. It's to see what kind of times the cars will do under racing conditions.
💡

Believe me, if we had everyone test the cars and give us their VERY best lap under perfect tire conditions... that wouldnt' tell us how these cars will perform racing against each other. We'd just know how well people can do in hot-lapping, given enough tries.

Tire wear is part of a car's performance.
Click to expand...

I do not fully agree with that. If tyre wear is too fast, then you end up making testing a nightmare nobody will like to bother with anymore. If the tyres are already on "9" in your second lap, you will never drive a decent lap in your first run, because you first have to get used to the car, and you will have to restart every time you do something wrong in that first lap, never getting a rhythm.

Quite to the contrary, if you assume that tyres are close to perfect on the first lap, then testing them with normal tyre wear will simulate this first lap, but enable you to string a couple of good laps together. You will get almost no meaningful data, if you do a couple of laps like...

Lap 1: bad driving, good tyres
Lap 2: better driving, medium tyres
Lap 3: good driving, bad tyres

Testing cars for their ability mostly means taking out as many variables as possible.

And I'm positive that you get better results by knowing what a car can do in prime condition than with some random combination of tyre wear and your own performance. The only thing you have to provide yourself is the same commitment with every car, meaning you shouldn't drive 20 laps in search for a good lap with one car and 5 with the other. It should be close to the same number in each car.
 
watermelon punch
@snowgt
Motegi East
Alpine A310 1600VE '73
Ford Taurus SHO '98
Honda Prelude Type S '98
Nissan Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) '78
Nissan Skyline Hard Top 2000 GT-R (KPGC10) '70
Toyota Corolla Levin GT-Apex (AE86) '83

@snowgt
Motegi East
Audi quattro '82
BMW 2002 Turbo '73
Mazda Savanna RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 DOHC Turbo VR-4 '89
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
Nissan Silvia K's (S13) '88
Click to expand...

CS tyres, I assume? For which lists are these...? The second one looks like Legends, but Galant and Silvia...?? (those 2 tested in the 80's list, by the way)
 
snowgt
If the tyres are already on "9" in your second lap, you will never drive a decent lap in your first run, because you first have to get used to the car, and you will have to restart every time you do something wrong in that first lap, never getting a rhythm.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what i was experiencing at Spa. Maybe it is more pronounced with the high-HP cars and SM tires, as TW/FC=Very Fast wasn't much a problem for me with the slower cars on CS.

snowgt
The only thing you have to provide yourself is the same commitment with every car, meaning you shouldn't drive 20 laps in search for a good lap with one car and 5 with the other. It should be close to the same number in each car.
Click to expand...

This is why i like the online TTs, you can set a fixed TT time, drive a few practice laps and go. Once you are in the flow of a track, you can go through a car list pretty fast, as you can change the cars right in the lobby. And you get that extra check with the room regulations, so you don't accidentally run a tuned car.
 
snowgt
CS tyres, I assume? For which lists are these...? The second one looks like Legends, but Galant and Silvia...?? (those 2 tested in the 80's list, by the way)
Click to expand...
Look at post #2 (in this thread)

I don't have a Corolla time from you.
I have the Sprinter Trueno... but I've been getting different times in these cars, they're close, but I suspect they are not identical.
Has anyone else noticed this??

Also in this list:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ists-all-welcome.295260/page-22#post-10444791

I did not find:

Mazda Savanna RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
(nor the other RX-7 - which is identical)

But yes, these 2 I have :dunce:
Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 DOHC Turbo VR-4 '89
Nissan Silvia K's (S13) '88
 
tarnheld
That's exactly what i was experiencing at Spa. Maybe it is more pronounced with the high-HP cars and SM tires, as TW/FC=Very Fast wasn't much a problem for me with the slower cars on CS.



This is why i like the online TTs, you can set a fixed TT time, drive a few practice laps and go. Once you are in the flow of a track, you can go through a car list pretty fast, as you can change the cars right in the lobby. And you get that extra check with the room regulations, so you don't accidentally run a tuned car.
Click to expand...

So am I doing right now with the wonderful BMWs I'm testing at the moment.

I go on track, doing the outlap and then one clean lap so I get a feeling what the final time should be like at least.

Then I start the TT, which allows me to do 4 laps in 6 mins on GVER.

Sometimes I was even able to do the best run on lap 3 or 4, other than I expected before. But that was due to small mistakes in the laps with better tires.

When I'm doing too many mistakes and don't reach the potential time I'm guessing the car could achieve, then I stop the TT and redo it a second time.

As a result in the Lobby Time Table only the final test times are listed.
 
Peeps, just be careful not to "overdo it".

The point here is NOT to exhaust ourselves into a state of testing-overdose grumpiness. :dopey: :scared:

Because:
  1. You may tire yourself and become sick of it, and that's not fun! (and not good for you!)
  2. It's not even necessary in order to judge the cars.

Sorry if I sound like a den mother. :guilty:
But I worry that in the excitement (I understand this) there's the temptation to do "too much of a good thing".
And I don't want to make it sound like a pressure when I request test times! :nervous:
There is NO PRESSURE here! :)
 
watermelon punch
Look at post #2 (in this thread)

I don't have a Corolla time from you.
I have the Sprinter Trueno... but I've been getting different times in these cars, they're close, but I suspect they are not identical.
Has anyone else noticed this??

Also in this list:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ists-all-welcome.295260/page-22#post-10444791

I did not find:

Mazda Savanna RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
(nor the other RX-7 - which is identical)

But yes, these 2 I have :dunce:
Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 DOHC Turbo VR-4 '89
Nissan Silvia K's (S13) '88
Click to expand...

I left out the RX-7, because it's on another list already, so it didn't make much sense adding it to the 80s list. I thought the consensus was not to have the same car on 2 lists. However, if it helps for some other purpose, I'll run it, no problem.

I have no idea, if there is a noticeable difference between the Sprinter Trueno and Corolla Levin. I don't remember feeling anything different back when I drove them back-to-back a while ago, so I'm pretty sure the difference will be in the margin of error-territory, 1PP difference or not.
 
snowgt
I left out the RX-7, because it's on another list already, so it didn't make much sense adding it to the 80s list. I thought the consensus was not to have the same car on 2 lists. However, if it helps for some other purpose, I'll run it, no problem.

I have no idea, if there is a noticeable difference between the Sprinter Trueno and Corolla Levin. I don't remember feeling anything different back when I drove them back-to-back a while ago, so I'm pretty sure the difference will be in the margin of error-territory, 1PP difference or not.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, I think they must be almost the same...
I looked, and yes, even the PP after oil change is only 1pp difference. :odd:
The hp/kg/torque is all the same as well.

But yeah, I had them in 2 different lists.

I was hoping to get more vintage cars mixed in.
So in the end we will have 5 lists of vintage to choose from. :)

tarnheld
Watch out, or you could get monsters like Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz. :eek:
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in being transferred your labeled beef. :odd:
 
I did re-test the MR2 at GVE/R. The result: 1'15.494, which would put it just behind the GTO Twin Turbo and NSX (in terms of my times for the cars at that track). And that's considering the very tricky first corner (it really hates it).
 
??? :confused:

Your old time in the MR2 at GVER was: 1:14.099

So you're saying it's slower now?

Lotus Elise Sport 190 '98
1:11.000
Chevrolet Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
1:11.648
Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V・spec II (R32) '94
1:12.305
Subaru IMPREZA Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
1:12.655
Toyota SUPRA RZ '97
1:11.970
TVR V8S '91
1:13.473
Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) '91
1:13.324
Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo MR '98
1:13.822
Acura NSX '91
1:13.625
Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
1:13.903
Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Version S TwinTurbo 2seater (Z32) '98
1:14.709
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution II GSR '94
1:15.899
Toyota MR2 GT-S '97
1:14.099
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98
1:16.071
Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '96
1:16.170
Audi S4 '98
1:15.251
 
watermelon punch
So I would like to call for these cars to be tested if/when people have the chance:

@amarynceos
Laguna Seca
Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '96
Audi S4 '98
(SPORTS HARD)

@amarynceos
Ts(u)kuba
BMW 507 '57
Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) '67
(COMFORT SOFT)
Click to expand...

Laguna Seca, SH
1:43.536 -- Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '96
1:42.437 -- Audi S4 '98

Tsukuba, CS
1:12.777 -- BMW 507 '57
1:13.179 -- Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) '67
 
watermelon punch
??? :confused:

Your old time in the MR2 at GVER was: 1:14.099

So you're saying it's slower now?

Lotus Elise Sport 190 '98
1:11.000
Chevrolet Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
1:11.648
Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V・spec II (R32) '94
1:12.305
Subaru IMPREZA Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
1:12.655
Toyota SUPRA RZ '97
1:11.970
TVR V8S '91
1:13.473
Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) '91
1:13.324
Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo MR '98
1:13.822
Acura NSX '91
1:13.625
Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
1:13.903
Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Version S TwinTurbo 2seater (Z32) '98
1:14.709
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution II GSR '94
1:15.899
Toyota MR2 GT-S '97
1:14.099
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98
1:16.071
Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) '96
1:16.170
Audi S4 '98
1:15.251
Click to expand...

LongbowX
@watermelon punch ...I guess so! This lap was rather imperfect, but I didn't think it was that bad. Hm, strange.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, Longbow's older times are with pre-1.08 physics. I strongly advise not to mingle times from before and after together! Times got up to 1s slower per lap across the board (depending on track, of course), and different types of cars reacted differently.

We should only use complete sets of data where it's at least clear that the whole set is from before or after the physics change. No hybrids. (actually sets from before should be discarded, if we do it properly)
 
snowgt
As far as I know, Longbow's older times are with pre-1.08 physics. I strongly advise not to mingle times from before and after together! Times got up to 1s slower per lap across the board (depending on track, of course), and different types of cars reacted differently.

We should only use complete sets of data where it's at least clear that the whole set is from before or after the physics change. No hybrids. (actually sets from before should be discarded, if we do it properly)
Click to expand...

In order to keep the testing to a minimum, all testers with times pre-1.08 (@amarynceos on Laguna Secca,@LongbowX on GVER and Tsukuba) that did the Silvia should do

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution II GSR '94
Toyota MR2 GT-S '97
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98


We can then separate the two datasets (pre-1.08 and post 1.08) and see how the Slivia and the A4 fit in the subset.


EDIT:

Wait, i saw that @amarynceos already posted new times for Laguna Seca, and @LongbowX for the MR2 at GVER. So all we need is

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution II GSR '94
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98

from @LongbowX @ GVER and all of the three at Tsukuba.
 
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I think we should disregard @LongbowX 's new MR2 time just because it flies in the face of what he himself felt about the car, and therefore ...
I think we're going to cut this car anyway... so I see no point in dwelling on this.
I mean unless there are hoards of objections to cutting it. ???

As for mingling old times & new... I don't see a big problem with this.

Most of the slower cars anyway have not changed much. I did try some of my old times to compare... after there were some concerns expressed.
And the difference was either almost non-existent or could be better explained by driver disposition at the time of testing. :lol: :guilty:

The test times will NEVER be perfect... because nobody can do all cars in one list the same day with the same mood. :lol:
Will I be sneezing during testing one day and happy the next?? Perhaps the next time I test drive I am worried about something IRL, but the next 2 cars I do on a day when I've gotten good news. :lol: :crazy:
All of these things CERTAINLY play a part in my testing... even if just a TINY little bit!


But all of these tiny differences disappear in the face of larger amounts of data. 💡 👍

So with many test times... it doesn't matter if there's some error in update-vs-pre-update, or if
@LongbowX is rusty, or @amarynceos is hungry for dinner, or I've got a cat trying to force her way into my lap repeatedly. :lol: ;)
 
watermelon punch
ANYONE:
a track with longer straight parts and/or hills (not a tight track)
Nissan Skyline 2000GT-B (S54B) '67
Honda Civic 1500 3door CX '79
Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 Duetto '66
Marcos Mini Marcos GT '70
(COMFORT SOFT)
Click to expand...

1:29,362 --- Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 Duetto '66
1:29,538 --- Nissan Skyline 2000GT-B (S54B) '67
1:29,988 --- Marcos Mini Marcos GT '70
1:30,350 --- Honda Civic 1500 3door CX '79

watermelon punch
ANYONE:
ANY TRACK
DMC DeLorean S2 '04
Dome Zero '78
Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
(COMFORT SOFT)
Click to expand...

1:19,046 --- Dome Zero '78
1:20,205 --- Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
1:20,462 --- DMC DeLorean S2 '04

All test done on GVER with AT and ABS 1.
 
My own words come back to haunt me. :lol: I don't mind if it disappears. But I also don't think it's as bad as before. I also think I should retest the other cars anyway for proper placement of the S4 or Silvia.
 
Motegi East on CS, online (as always), Time / Speed at S/F / Speed at End of Straight

1:48,564 124 172 Alpine A310 1600VE '73
1:46,232 135 187 Ford Taurus SHO '98
1:47,159 133 185 Honda Prelude Type S '98
1:49,259 123 171 Nissan Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) '78
1:48,782 126 174 Nissan Skyline Hard Top 2000 GT-R (KPGC10) '70

1:45,428 132 180 Audi quattro '82
1:45,598 128 176 BMW 2002 Turbo '73
1:45,003 131 179 Mazda Savanna RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
1:43,945 140 194 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63

Some comments about maybe problematic cars:
The Alpine A310 is not really easy to drive, being RR and all.
The Taurus is an unbelievably bad car. It's got power, but it understeers like crazy and even off the power is slow through corners.
The Prelude has a horrible diff on acceleration that pulls the car towards the outside of a corner as soon as you're stepping on the gas with the inner front tyre happily spinning.

I don't think driving the Taurus or the Prelude will make anyone happy. The Alpine can be fun, but it might be tricky for some.
 
:lol: The Taurus I think is eh...
The Prelude I didn't mind at all. Though I test drove it at Deep Forest. I thought it was decent, and rather easy to drive.
I personally hate the Piazza. I thought that was the dog of this list.
 
I remember that being a familiar characteristic from getting the Prelude in shuffle races...However I actually remember there was one good Prelude that didn't exhibit this. It's one without a spoiler - unfortunately that's all I remember. :lol:
 
LongbowX
I remember that being a familiar characteristic from getting the Prelude in shuffle races...However I actually remember there was one good Prelude that didn't exhibit this. It's one without a spoiler - unfortunately that's all I remember. :lol:
Click to expand...
I think the 1991.

Maybe we should test that one instead. It looks nicer too.
 
@tarnheld ,

1:41.698 -- Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo MR '98

LongbowX
@amarynceos

A few cars I thought might fit that are a bit slower than the Evora and might fit the theme of your list (and are not included on other lists):


Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13 (maybe not "premium" enough. Still fun though.)
Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP '07
Audi TTS Coupe '09

I don't know how much slower they would be (particularily the first 2), they all handle worse than the Evora though. Could also include the '07 350Z, but it would be confusing with the '08 370Z and too similar.
Click to expand...

I tested your suggestions, thanks for those! 👍 The 'premium' part of the theme is as much about the model quality as it is the car status. :D So all those would fit in fine.

Retested the Evora to benchmark, as well.

1:35.761 -- Lotus Evora '09 (old time 1:36.846)
1:37.308 -- Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
1:37.712 -- Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP '07
1:38.650 -- Audi TTS Coupe '09


The Audi is a bit too slow, perhaps, but the Skyline and the Hyundai are going on the list of potentials.
👍


----

Even though the MR2 is looking set for the chop, I took it out for a fling around the Nurburgring yesterday. My old time with it was a 8:13.3xx, achieved only by doing three laps, in which the first two were, as I recall, punctuate by various hilarious mishaps (including a spectacular roll coming out of the Fuchsrohre :dopey:). I bettered that time by a full second on my reccy lap this time, and on my second lap set an 8:06.5xx, with only one alarming moment (an unintentional drift through most of Miss-Hit-Miss :scared:).
 
amarynceos
The 'premium' part of the theme is as much about the model quality as it is the car status. :D
Click to expand...

Okay so I wasn't 100% clear on this.. ???

The Premium Sports list:
  1. Premium Car in the game (as opposed to a standard)
  2. A better car (more expensive or special in real world terms)
  3. A particularly nice looking Premium Car (just like some standards in the game are nicer than others, so too are some premiums)
  4. All of the above
 
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