Makeshift Shuffle Club - Time Trials & Testing for club car lists - all welcomeOpen

[tarnheld]

It's official now!
I predict Mid Engine Heaven will be next, when i finish testing the complete set! 👍
Only seven cars left to check...

 

[snowgt]

It's official now!
I predict Mid Engine Heaven will be next, when i finish testing the complete set! 👍
Only seven cars left to check...

New lists are always good to get some variety into our racing!

By the way, I think I have another proposal lying around somewhere, that I hinted at some time back. It's not new as such, but it could replace one existing list with 2 new ones. At least one of the lists is tested, so I just as well might post it (as soon as I find it)...

 

[Handlebar]

Did you want further testing of the Schwarzwald list? Or Mid Engine?

 

[tarnheld]

Did you want further testing of the Schwarzwald list? Or Mid Engine?

Whatever you prefer! You can check the spreadsheets and preferably do car pairs that have some yellow color in their row. But i think the Mid Engine Heaven is closer towards finish, as the Schwarzwald list needs some serious axing. Not the trees though... The Mid Engine Heaven list has to let go of some cars too, we have to bring it down to 16 -- i think some Lotii will have to go...

Here is the post with the list links.

 

[snowgt]

Whatever you prefer! You can check the spreadsheets and preferably do car pairs that have some yellow color in their row. But i think the Mid Engine Heaven is closer towards finish, as the Schwarzwald list needs some serious axing. Not the trees though... The Mid Engine Heaven list has to let go of some cars too, we have to bring it down to 16 -- i think some Lotii will have to go...

Here is the post with the list links.

Mid-Engine Heaven are 2 separate lists, none of which have more than 16 cars (I originally posted more times, but you did include only the ones I had picked originally in the spreadsheet).

Regarding the Lotii () on MEH I (i.e. the slower MR-list), I agree it looks a bit much, but then I'm thinking...

a) we must have the Evora
b) the Elise '11 is needed because of a gap (and it's the only 3rd generation Elise)
c) the Elise 111S '03 is also needed because of a gap (2nd gen)
d) the Elise 111R '04 could be the top-rated car on the list (2nd gen) (we could axe the NSX though)
e) the Elise '96 is the original 1st gen car, so I'd like to keep it, but from the times, this is the most expandable.

I'm thinking of the Elises as 3 separate cars, but I do understand your point. Unfortunately, there's not that many MR's to choose from, so they are difficult to replace.

 

[tarnheld]

Mid-Engine Heaven are 2 separate lists, none of which have more than 16 cars (I originally posted more times, but you did include only the ones I had picked originally in the spreadsheet).

Ah, you are right, there must be some other list with too much cars. Then all is good, if it goes by me we can have a list full of Lotii! 👍 They are also spread out over the list, and the '96 model is different enough from the 111S even if they are adjacent.

 

[snowgt]

Ok, here's the revamp I had been hinting at before...the Luxury 4-door Sedan list (working title). This could replace the current Luxury-list, with another list for Luxury Coupés added. (I have yet to test some cars for the Coupés, before I can post that list)

Tested at Suzuka 2014, SM tyres.

Lap time, Top Speed, SSRX, Car model

2:28,156 207 286 Nissan Skyline Sedan 300GT '01
2:27,819 207 288 BMW 330i '05
2:27,574 213 300 Toyota Aristo 3.0V '91
2:27,100 208 273 Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5-16 Evolution II '91
2:26,960 215 286 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK '98
2:26,521 215 298 Toyota Aristo V300 Vertex Edition '00
2:26,340 212 280L Audi S4 '98
2:26,191 213 289 Infiniti G35 Sedan '03
2:26,163 215 286 Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen '00
2:25,834 213 286 Nissan Skyline Sedan 350GT-8 '02
2:24,763 220 314 Nissan Skyline Sedan 350GT Type SP '06
2:24,235 218 297 Holden Commodore SS '04
2:24,026 221 314 Chrysler 300C '05
2:23,849 216 290 Subaru Legacy B4 2.0GT spec.B '03
2:23,665 219 293L Tom's X540 Chaser '00
2:23,006 230 314 Lotus Carlton '90
2:22,937 222 295L Audi S4 '03
2:22,578 238 333L Audi RS 6 '02
2:22,026 231 314L Audi RS 4 '01
2:20,815 240 349 Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG '02
2:20,469 229 312 Jaguar S-Type R '02
2:18,950 236 335 SRT Charger SRT8 '11
2:18,259 240 341 Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08
2:18,071 245 359 Audi RS 6 Avant '08
2:17,872 242 351 Jaguar XFR '10
2:16,501 242 348 Lexus IS F '07
2:13,612 250 362 BMW M5 '08
2:12,158 253 366 BMW M5 '05

My suggestions in bold, but the selection should be found by public consent.

- The Infiniti G35 is, of course, very similar to the Nissan Skyline Sedan, so it could be switched with the Subaru Legacy Blitzen, as those two are pretty equal in speed. I wasn't sure, if I should include the Legacy as a "Luxury Sedan", but it could pass for one, in the absence of better choices. The other Legacy is by far the better car, but there's too many other choices in the same performance-range as that one.
- I think the other choices are pretty clear, with the M5's being too fast by a (couple of) mile(s).
- I did leave out all the Imprezas and Lancers because of the Luxury-theme.

 

[tarnheld]

Ah, the 4-door luxury sedans, lot's of unusual cars there, had to google the Toyota Aristo and the Chaser -- not available in Europe.

I originally posted more times, but you did include only the ones I had picked originally in the spreadsheet

My suggestions in bold, but the selection should be found by public consent.

Good that you mention this, usually i use the initial preference of the list initiator to create a spreadsheet, but in most of the spreadsheets there is a Scratch page (pages can be switched to by tabs at the bottom) where i usually keep the initial cars or backups of TT times if some car(s) gets axed. To all testers or people interested: You can take a peek in there if you think some car has to get into the list, it might be already there. 👍

 

[snowgt]

So here are the Luxury Coupés to complement the Sedans.

Tested at Suzuka 2014, SM tyres.

Lap time, Top Speed, SSRX, Car model

2:25,607 221 283L BMW M Coupe '98
2:25,255 217 302 Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07
2:24,473 218 311 Mercedes-Benz SL 500 (R230) '02
2:24,208 228 322 Mercedes-Benz CLK 55 AMG '00

2:23,621 218 294 Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
2:23,342 221 314 Honda NSX '90
2:22,672 225 324 Nissan Skyline Coupe 370GT Type SP '07

2:21,860 235 340 Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Coupe '00
2:21,089 223 306 BMW 135i Coupe '07
2:20,858 232 330L Jaguar XKR Coupe '99
2:20,567 245 342 Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99
2:20,544 232 328 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
2:20,466 245 345 Mercedes-Benz SL 600 (R230) '04
2:19,191 246 363L Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
2:18,865 230 332 BMW M3 '04
2:18,704 234 333 Jaguar XKR R Performance '02
2:18,682 231 332 BMW Z4 M Coupe '08
2:17,413 243 349 Aston Martin Vanquish '04
2:17,312 237 341 BMW M3 Coupé '07
2:16,506 241 333 Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
2:15,949 260 364 Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG (R230) '04
2:15,589 244 310L TVR Cerbera Speed 6 '97
2:15,257 248 366 Jaguar XKR-S '11
2:14,752 237 333 BMW M3 CSL '03
2:14,517 238 320 BMW M3 GTR '03
2:13,093 248 344 BMW M4 Coupé

Because of how the times spread out, I had to find a gap-filler between the Mercedes CLK and the Aston DB7. The 3 cars in between there are the only ones that remotely fit the theme, and I think the NSX would be the best choice.

As always, feel free to make suggestions, etc.!

 

[amarynceos]

I like the idea of replacing the Luxury list; we've run that one for ages, and lately when I'm working on scheduling and choosing lists, I tend to not use that one unless somebody's chosen it as a prize pick.

I really need to make some time for testing. First up will be the Mid Engine Heaven lists, as I'd like to get at least one of those live.

 

[snowgt]

Hey...how about we get that Mid-engine list on the road?
You know you want it!

 

[tarnheld]

You know you want it!

Mmmh, yes! You mean Mid Engine Heaven II? I'll try to do a few more tests, but we can also beat the drum and add some TTs in the club. @watermelon punch?

And what about Mid Engine Heaven I?
Looking really good, all weighed and found wanting -- literally, the heaviest is the NSX at 1340kg
But seriously, i think no further testing needed:

1 Toyota MR-S V Edition (6MT) '02
2 Lotus Elise '11
3 Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
4 Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
5 Opel Speedster '00
6 Lotus Elise '96
7 Lotus Elise 111S '03
8 Renault Sport Clio V6 24V '00
9 Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71
10 Opel Speedster Turbo '00
11 Ford RS200 '84
12 AutoBacs Garaiya '02
13 Tommykaira ZZ-S '00
14 Lotus Evora '09
15 Lotus Elise 111R '04
16 Honda NSX '01

 

[snowgt]

Mmmh, yes! You mean Mid Engine Heaven II? I'll try to do a few more tests, but we can also beat the drum and add some TTs in the club. @watermelon punch?

And what about Mid Engine Heaven I?
Looking really good, all weighed and found wanting -- literally, the heaviest is the NSX at 1340kg
But seriously, i think no further testing needed:

1 Toyota MR-S V Edition (6MT) '02
2 Lotus Elise '11
3 Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
4 Hommell Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
5 Opel Speedster '00
6 Lotus Elise '96
7 Lotus Elise 111S '03
8 Renault Sport Clio V6 24V '00
9 Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71
10 Opel Speedster Turbo '00
11 Ford RS200 '84
12 AutoBacs Garaiya '02
13 Tommykaira ZZ-S '00
14 Lotus Evora '09
15 Lotus Elise 111R '04
16 Honda NSX '01

I'm fine with any new list.

 

[tarnheld]

I'm fine with any new list.

So let's release the Mid Engine Heaven list, maybe we could do a special event on Sunday, @watermelon punch? Or an event on Wednesday? What do you think? Autumn Ring, Apricot Hill, Brands Hatch because Lotus, you name it?

 

[terrordog1490]

I already have 6 different NSXs. Well, I guess the more the merrier. I doubt I'll make it to any event this Sunday or Wednesday, but I'll buy the list anyway. I'm looking forward to racing with this list sometime.

 

[moutonguerrier]

About the mid engine list... can we add the rx7 fd? Since the engine is so small and behind the front axles, "a configuration marketed by Mazda as "front mid-engine"", thats true ! I would understand not to put it with the others "rear mid-engine" ahah , I'm just a rx7 lover...

 

[tarnheld]

May i point your attention to this post, i have collected all upcoming lists there. See the link to Bargain Coupés, there is a RX7 inside. We have one in the 90 Sports list also, and maybe in some more...

 

[moutonguerrier]

I want it everywhere ahah so I can drive only rx7 xD

 

[tarnheld]

Well, 'Mid Engine Heaven With That One RX7' is a little unwieldy. But a RX7 only list might be possible... 💡

 

[Harsk100]

Tarnheld, the Mid Engine Heaven is good idea, but don't forget about my suggestion for this friday. 👍

What I mean is that I think that we should do a Rally Time Trial in this week.

 

[tarnheld]

With the Midengine Heaven list released and the first races done, i can say it's a fun list with lot's of challenging but fun cars. We discussed racing them on CS as SH was found a little too grippy -- i think it's a good idea as errors can be caught more easily, but OTOH you can push the car over it's limits faster. What do you think?

 

[Torzilla]

I like the idea of CS so we can let the drivers rise to the occasion. Of course I havn't taken the cars out yet so I might change my mind, but then again maybe I won't.

With the Midengine Heaven list released and the first races done, i can say it's a fun list with lot's of challenging but fun cars. We discussed racing them on CS as SH was found a little too grippy -- i think it's a good idea as errors can be caught more easily, but OTOH you can push the car over it's limits faster. What do you think?

 

[snowgt]

I originally made the decision to test the list with SH tyres particularly so that less experienced drivers wouldn't feel discouraged when these cars were on the schedule. I tend to think that using less grippy tyres would actually widen the gap between drivers, but if you feel the opposite is the case, I'm fine with it.

It might depend on driving style though. If your tendency is to go too fast into a corner, then the grippier tyres might give you oversteer as you try to get it to rotate before having slowed down enough, thus putting you in danger of spinning. The CS tyre will make it more settled on entry with a tendency to understeer. If you have a more flowing driving style, which is the faster especially in these lightweight & rather low powered cars, then it gets a little harder to steer the car through the corner close to its maximum grip level.