Margaret Thatcher dies aged 87

[Robin]

The important point they're missing:

These people who have such venom and hatred for her need to remember that she was elected in a democratic process. Her rule, her choices, her policies were supported and wanted by a majority of the people. Sure that was at the time, the views of society, but it was the majority

Exactly! It's not like she was forced on the UK!

It seems to be lost on most that a large percentage of people chose her to be in office for all those years and as with most things in life if the majority want something those who don't unfortunately have to just put up with it.

It might not be fair to some but is there any fairer a way than democratic elections with an entire houses of parliament to represent all communities and demographics?

 

[Müle]

I cant see how people can be so full of hate that they'd celebrate the death of a person who left office 20+ years ago.

The important point they're missing:

These people who have such venom and hatred for her need to remember that she was elected in a democratic process. Her rule, her choices, her policies were supported and wanted by a majority of the people. Sure that was at the time, the views of society, but it was the majority

Their hatred & venom should in fact be directed towards a large group of the people that they live in their country with.

If you want to extend the logic to such a point, that is.

Did she ever win >50% of the popular vote?

 

[dhandeh]

I think in a round-about-way, it is... they're targeting (the now deceased) person the majority voted for.
(Not that i support such a thing), but it does send a pretty clear message to the people that voted for her.

So everyone who voted Tory throughout the 80's are also evil bastards who when they also die, these conscious clear types should all have street parties etc.

Did she ever win >50% of the popular vote?

I would be surprised if any government had 50% of the vote.

 

[Robin]

did she ever win >50% of the popular vote?

1979 - 43.9%
1983 - 42.4%
1987 - 42.2%

You have to bear in mind though that its 3 parties challenging.

 

[Nessy]

So everyone who voted Tory throughout the 80's are also evil bastards.

I never said that.

 

[ScouserInExile]

First was 1979. Labour and the country under Jim Callaghan was in a mess. Easy win.
1983. Beat the argies in a UK morale boosting war. Shoe in.
1987 labour was in disarray under Kinnock, and there was a left split with Labour and the SDP.

Also, stuff like Right To Buy bought her a lot of votes in middle England while managing to screw over generations to come.

The media was overwhelmingly Tory at the time and did a good job of demonizing the poor people she was busy doing a number on.

 

[dhandeh]

I never said that.

I never said you did, but what I quoted from yourself, it is apparent that those who voted her in should accept responsibility for what Thatcher done. What is good enough for Thatcher is good enough for them.

 

[Müle]

1979 - 43.9%
1983 - 42.4%
1987 - 42.2%

You have to bear in mind though that its 3 parties challenging.

Then you really can't say she ever had the support of a majority of people. I'm not on any side, but yeah. We have the same problem here in Canada. Our PM has a majority, but barely got over 40% of the popular vote.

First Past the Post is a silly system.

 

[Nessy]

I never said you did, but what I quoted from yourself, it is apparent that those who voted her in should accept responsibility for what Thatcher done. What is good enough for Thatcher is good enough for them.

To those who were celebrating her death.. maybe that's what some of them feel.

[EDIT]

With regards towards the democratic vote (maybe not relevent to the discussion): I think everyone would agree that there's no fairer system.. The thing is, what happens when lets say it's a 45-55% split (for and against), i imagine for whoever it is that looses out, it can be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow (having come so close to it being a majority).

 

[dhandeh]

To those who were celebrating her death.. maybe that's what some of them feel.

Good luck to them, it isn't going to change the past though.

 

[Nessy]

It isn't going to change the past though.

Indeed, i agree. Maybe it's just a sense of closure for those who were truly affected by it all.

 

[dhandeh]

Indeed, i agree. Maybe it's just a sense of closure for those who were truly affected by it all.

I wouldn't say those that are buying the Ding Dong song, setting fire to effigies of her and generally being pathetic were truly affected by her. They are probably just doing it for a laugh. There are better ways to show protest against someone, but in the age that we live now Facebook, Twitter etc, getting likes on your status which slags off a recently deceased mother, grandmother and wife is more important than any constructive argument against her and her actions when in power.

 

[Nessy]

There are better ways to show protest against someone, but in the age that we live now Facebook, Twitter etc, getting likes on your status which slags off a recently deceased mother, grandmother and wife is more important than any constructive argument against her and her actions when in power.

Seems that way doesn't it?
Funnily enough, the day the news broke of her death i happened to be on Facebook (don't actually use it much, and have never used Twitter), I only came across two negative status's about her... (don't have many friends on FB, which might explain that), yet i came across more status's that were in support of her than against... I guess some people are more vocal than others, when it comes to certain things.

 

[Carbonox]

People just keep on finding excuses on why Thatcher should not receive criticism and/or hate 👎 So what if she was voted for by the majority? Majority =/ everyone.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

People just keep on finding excuses on why Thatcher should not receive criticism and/or hate 👎 So what if she was voted for by the majority? Majority =/ everyone.

Criticism is fine, but finding joy in the death of an old lady? What does that achieve, apart from making you look like an utter moron?

Add to that that many of those celebrating her death weren't even born when she was in power and haven't got a clue why she was disliked in the first place.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Seems that way doesn't it?
Funnily enough, the day the news broke of her death i happened to be on Facebook (don't actually use it much, and have never used Twitter), I only came across two negative status's about her... (don't have many friends on FB, which might explain that), yet i came across more status's that were in support of her than against... I guess some people are more vocal than others, when it comes to certain things.

On mine, there was a distinct north / south split. Basically everyone from the north was organising a street party. Everyone from the south wasn't so much defending her as saying we were all a bit mean for being so happy about it. I'm yet to encounter anyone saying she was any good for the country.

And, before anyone asks, yes I'm old enough to have lived through her regime.

 

[Mic_Col]

Criticism is fine, but finding joy in the death of an old lady? What does that achieve, apart from making you look like an utter moron?

Indeed if there's something to take away from this it's that we see the quality (lack of) of some people's character.

Doing such extreme actions. Burning effigies of an old lady, popping champagne and dancing in the streets because she's died, is terrible. It wasn't (for instance) like the death of a dictator who'd conducted purges against innocent civilians - which we've seen in living history. And in such cases, you can understand the reactions of people celebrating a dictator's death.

That's what I will take away from this: how extreme and hate-filled people can be.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

That's what I will take away from this: how extreme and hate-filled people can be.

And adding to that, the reasons for that hate.

Young people are celebrating the death of someone simply because they are told to by their parents. What sort of mindlessness is this? Do they not have the brain cells required to figure out that doing so betters nobody and helps nothing!?

Maybe now that Thatcher's dead, people will stop clinging to their sad little stories of how they were wronged and how they'd never forgive her. Surely at some point they have to move on!

 

[Müle]

I hope that the people crying that people are happy that Thatcher died aren't the same people that were happy when Hugo Chavez died.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I wouldn't say those that are buying the Ding Dong song, setting fire to effigies of her and generally being pathetic were truly affected by her. They are probably just doing it for a laugh. There are better ways to show protest against someone, but in the age that we live now Facebook, Twitter etc, getting likes on your status which slags off a recently deceased mother, grandmother and wife is more important than any constructive argument against her and her actions when in power.

Greatest thing I've seen said on this, the funny man knows how to create feels.👍

 

[ScouserInExile]

And adding to that, the reasons for that hate.

Young people are celebrating the death of someone simply because they are told to by their parents. What sort of mindlessness is this? Do they not have the brain cells required to figure out that doing so betters nobody and helps nothing!?

Maybe now that Thatcher's dead, people will stop clinging to their sad little stories of how they were wronged and how they'd never forgive her. Surely at some point they have to move on!

This is a slightly over simplistic view of politics. Just because she hasn't been prime minister for decades now doesn't mean that there aren't negative effects of her policies still being felt now.

Depending on how you see things you could say:
The current banking crisis started with her deregulation
Both the shortage of social housing and the now very much burst property bubble started with her Right To Buy push
The luck of jobs in the north, Wales and Scotland are a result of her closing local industries
Her privitisation of everything the she could is still costing us a fortune
An awful lot of people believe she caused the problems in Northern Ireland to drag on longer longer than they might have done otherwise

And so on...

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

This is a slightly over simplistic view of politics.

I didn't really feel like typing out a lengthy post discussing the ins and outs of politics at 2am in the morning.

I doubt many of those 20 year olds throwing death parties know much about how Thatcher's policies are still having an impact now, or even what her policies were when she was in power. Will they party when Blair or Brown die? Surely they should, as both of them have left us with a big mess to clean up.

My point still stands - what does celebrating someone's death achieve? Do you cry over the negative things in life, or do you deal with it and get on things? (and before the son of a pit worker comes in and goes off in one, yes, my family were negatively effected by Thatcher).

 

[Zenith]

I hope that the people crying that people are happy that Thatcher died aren't the same people that were happy when Hugo Chavez died.

Yes because enacting policies that may be considered disagreeable is certainly on the same level as the numerous human rights violations that Chavez ordered.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Two things about the celebrating her death thing.

First off, when she was alive, an awful lot of people despised her when she was alive. The despised her ideology. They despised her policies. They despised what she did to the country. They despised what she did to people. They despised her lies. They despised the suffering she caused. They despise her legacy and they despise the fact that the current lot seem determined to follow Thatcherism to the letter. So of course they're going to be glad she's gone.

The second thing follows the first. We all knew that there would be an outpouring of faux grief and handwringing from the media so people wanted a visible sign that actually, no, we aren't all in mourning for her passing, this is how we actually feel.

The death of one is a tragedy, the unemployment of millions is just a statistic.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I don't think any US President has been that hated as much as I'm seeing with Thatcher. Well maybe Reagan, but even then I think we tend to respect our dead ex-presidents. At least that's what I hope.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

The death of one is a tragedy, the unemployment of millions is just a sta-tis-tic.

Manson will have you for that. Comparing death to unemployment... strange. Celebrating someone's death is still beyond pathetic, in my opinion.

I don't think any US President has been that hated as much as I'm seeing with Thatcher. Well maybe Reagan, but even then I think we tend to respect our dead ex-presidents. At least that's what I hope.

Thatcher isn't as hated as it may seem, it's just that those who do/did hate her are very vocal about it. If you had a hate poll between, say, Thatcher, Blair and Brown, I wouldn't be surprised if Blair or Brown came out on top (as most hated).

 

[ScouserInExile]

Thatcher isn't as hated as it may seem, it's just that those who do/did hate her are very vocal about it. If you had a hate poll between, say, Thatcher, Blair and Brown, I wouldn't be surprised if Blair or Brown came out on top (as most hated).

It'd be between Thatcher and Blair. Most people barely remember who Brown is. And I reckon Thatcher would easily win.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

It'd be between Thatcher and Blair. Most people barely remember who Brown is. And I reckon Thatcher would easily win.

Let me add a bit to that - if the people voting had a clue and weren't just voting to pass the time.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Manson will have you for that. Comparing death to unemployment... strange. Celebrating someone's death is still beyond pathetic, in my opinion.

Losing your job in a city is one thing, losing your job when the mine closes along with everyone else, and with no alternative employment, is a lot different. It did lead to the early deaths of many, not lives that needed to end so soon, but many felt there was little left.

Thatcher isn't as hated as it may seem, it's just that those who do/did hate her are very vocal about it. If you had a hate poll between, say, Thatcher, Blair and Brown, I wouldn't be surprised if Blair or Brown came out on top (as most hated).

An interesting point, and largely dependant on location. Thatcher would be on top from pembroke dock to the Severn bridge I'm sure.

In inner cities you probably wouldn't see the same result.

 

[Müle]

Yes because enacting policies that may be considered disagreeable is certainly on the same level as the numerous human rights violations that Chavez ordered.

Both of them tried to make their country better. Both of them were controversial and pissed off a lot of people. Other than the fact that they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum, there's not much difference between them.

It's incredibly hypocritical to be happy of the death of one of them, then turn around and complain that "lefties" or "righties" are happy the other one died.