Mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio

[VFOURMAX1]

How would a national registry prevent crime with illegally owned guns? A registry of cars doesn't prevent vehicular manslaughter/homicides at all. As @Danoff mentioned, some 60% of crimes are done with an illegally obtained gun. Having a registry is only going to make that number go up.

The Feds have had the ability to track a firearm by serial number through the first purchase for at least the last 50 years. Having a purchase of private party transactions to also do the background check would extend that tracking capability beyond the initial purchase. Actually if a person legally selling a firearm sold it through such system and that firearm was used later in a crime that seller would have the sale "registered" stating they had not owned such firearm since such and such a date.

Also having sale transactions will not make the amount or use of illegal firearms go up. If a person, say a felon buys a firearm it is an illegal purchase to begin with and if it is proven the seller knows such buyer has a felony record they are breaking the law as well.

Also, if the weapon is stolen all it's going to do is link it to the original owner, not the person who stole or bought a stolen gun in the first place.

A legal owner of a firearm is required to report such theft of a firearm legally now I think in most states. Again that report may help if the gun is used in a crime down the road to protect the original owner from being a suspect in the crime.

 

[Danoff]

I'd like to see a license with various grades for buying various types of firearms. Semi-automatic might be the lowest grade (just thinking out loud here). So for example perhaps you can buy a bolt action with no license, but semi-auto (handguns or rifles) require a class... A? license. The background check is kept up to date nationally, and anyone who sells the gun at any point is required to associate the serial number of the gun with the serial number of the buyer's license. There are obvious security issues that need to be implemented to prevent abuse, but I don't think this is impossible.

Higher license grades could allow becoming a dealer, purchasing automatic weapons, explosives, decommissioned military vehicles, etc.

I really think having an up-to-date background check should be required for buying (even second hand) the vast majority of firearms (maybe not a potato cannon). There should be no wait for the background check either, there should be no rush on it. It should be done leisurely, ahead of time, thoroughly, kept up to date routinely, and then relied upon at sale.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I really think having an up-to-date background check should be required for buying

Anyone with a concealed weapon permit does have their background checks updated at every renewal. I have had my concealed weapons permit going on 40 years and for many years it had to be renewed every two years and was assigned to a specific weapon. For the last 20 years or so it has to be renewed every 5 years and any weapon I legally own is covered.

Again even the firearm purchase background check though alone would be checking updated records anytime a gun is legally purchased with a background check. I do not think a tiered license for the type of firearm would be a good idea or required as it will not influence whether someone went off the deep end and decided to commit murder or break the law at all.

 

[Danoff]

Again even the firearm purchase background check though alone would be checking updated records anytime a gun is legally purchased with a background check. I do not think a tiered license for the type of firearm would be a good idea or required as it will not influence whether someone went off the deep end and decided to commit murder or break the law at all.

That's what we have now, deeper background checks with shorter renewal times for greater access to deadlier weapons. That's not just true of firearms, explosives, and vehicles, it's also true of state secrets which can be used to cause loss of life.

All I want to do is make it more accessible to sellers (and required for sellers).

 

[zzz_pt]

That is not what I said but I'm not going to deny that is what I am thinking now. However displaying your political bias you described what the spcl website believed. I said that statement referring to the spcl was in exact comparison to the motives of those White mass shooters. I could go back and fourth with you on this SPCL topic but seriously man, that is played out, all you are doing is gaslighting straight data by claiming a website is not credible "fake news" a simple political tactic taken right out of Donald Trump's playbook. If CNN said the sky is blue Trump would cry "Fake news", so everybody is now supposed to believe the sky is the color of an orange clown.

The racist mass shooter Dillian Roof came down to shoot up a Charleston SC AME church full of black people. the sad part about it is this African Methodist church was centered politically on the right, in support for senators like Lindsay graham and governor Nikky hailey. But the misinformed racist alt right Mass shooter wanted kill minorities nevertheless. Again, this is why Clinton in the 90s tactfully kicked those racist out of the democratic party. I find it truly disgusting to see someone sympathizing or turning a blind eye towards racist mass shooters like Dillian Roof.

I can't discuss with people like you. Have fun with your black and white thinking.

 

[PocketZeven]

I'd like to see a license with various grades for buying various types of firearms. Semi-automatic might be the lowest grade (just thinking out loud here). So for example perhaps you can buy a bolt action with no license, but semi-auto (handguns or rifles) require a class... A? license. The background check is kept up to date nationally, and anyone who sells the gun at any point is required to associate the serial number of the gun with the serial number of the buyer's license. There are obvious security issues that need to be implemented to prevent abuse, but I don't think this is impossible.

Higher license grades could allow becoming a dealer, purchasing automatic weapons, explosives, decommissioned military vehicles, etc.

I really think having an up-to-date background check should be required for buying (even second hand) the vast majority of firearms (maybe not a potato cannon). There should be no wait for the background check either, there should be no rush on it. It should be done leisurely, ahead of time, thoroughly, kept up to date routinely, and then relied upon at sale.

Ideally a system adapted from switzerland's laws would be a good start.

 

[Danoff]

Ideally a system adapted from switzerland's laws would be a good start.

Quick perusal on wikipedia suggests that it's pretty similar to what I wrote above, but maybe has more different types of permits than I'd like to see. I'd want this to be quick and easy with a single permit allowing various types of transactions.

I agree, it looks pretty common sense.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

With the exception of the private transaction background check our countries laws are actually pretty good and extensive just not properly enforced. We have laws that have been in place for decades to prevent criminals or the mentally ill from legally owning weapons. Actually under current law all these states that have legalized marijuana that if you use marijuana you cannot legally own or possess a firearm under current laws. If you are drinking and intoxicated it is illegal in most states to be in possession of a firearm while legally intoxicated.

The thing is we do not need new laws we need to enforce the laws we have and make the punishment for violating those laws extreme enough that people will follow the law.

Again semi automatic military style weapons have been available for decades, m-4's, SKS's, 1911 .45's but again we did not have the issues we have today. It is not a gun or gun law problem that is going to fix this. Our problems are much deeper in our society.

 

[Danoff]

With the exception of the private transaction background check our countries laws are actually pretty good and extensive just not properly enforced. We have laws that have been in place for decades to prevent criminals or the mentally ill from legally owning weapons. Actually under current law all these states that have legalized marijuana that if you use marijuana you cannot legally own or possess a firearm under current laws. If you are drinking and intoxicated it is illegal in most states to be in possession of a firearm while legally intoxicated.

The thing is we do not need new laws we need to enforce the laws we have and make the punishment for violating those laws extreme enough that people will follow the law.

We do need some new laws, which you mention above:

With the exception of the private transaction background check

That's one of the biggest issues. But I also think that we need a system which is designed to enable ease of enforcement. Which is what I'm suggesting.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But I also think that we need a system which is designed to enable ease of enforcement.

Yes we need one Federal set of gun laws that is uniform across all 50 states. Having different laws every time you cross a state line is problematic for even law abiding citizens to know what is and is not legal.

 

[PocketZeven]

Quick perusal on wikipedia suggests that it's pretty similar to what I wrote above, but maybe has more different types of permits than I'd like to see. I'd want this to be quick and easy with a single permit allowing various types of transactions.

I agree, it looks pretty common sense.

I would suggest to have a more indepth look into it. Like the US switzerland has a gunculture formed out of tradition, but the way they go about it, is a lot different. A smaller government/country does help a lot.

 

[Dotini]

Yes we need one Federal set of gun laws that is uniform across all 50 states. Having different laws every time you cross a state line is problematic for even law abiding citizens to know what is and is not legal.

We have one federal law for marijuana, yet the states go their merry way with total impunity. Probably a constitutional amendment would be necessary for vastly more Draconian federal gun laws.

 

[Joey D]

We have one federal law for marijuana, yet the states go their merry way with total impunity.

Amendment X

 

[VFOURMAX1]

We have one federal law for marijuana, yet the states go their merry way with total impunity.

Which personally I think until Federal law is changed the Feds should be bringing charges for class 1 narcotic distribution on the outlets selling something which is actually illegal to possess in the entire nation.

I do not agree that the cart goes before the horse on making citizens actually be lawbreakers. Anyone that buys a firearm that has a marijuana medical card that lies on the firearm 4473 form to get the gun sale approved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

The Federal law should be changed before any state can legalize or allow the use of marijuana in this country. Picking and choosing what laws we follow is half of this countries problem now. We cannot choose what laws we follow by whether we like or agree with them, this makes having laws a worthless proposition.

A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a form promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in the United States Department of Justice that is filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder (such as a gun shop).[1]

The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, and a short affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. It contains make, model, or serial number on page three of the six page form. Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison[2] in addition to fines, even if the transaction is denied by the NICS. Prosecutions are rare in the absence of another felony committed with the gun purchased.[citation needed] Of 556,496 denied transactions between FY 2008 and FY 2015, federal prosecutors prosecuted an average of under 32 cases per year, including 24 in FY 2013, 15 in FY 2014 and 20 in FY 2015.[3][4]

In 2016, ATF made several changes to the form, including adding a warning statement that the use of marijuana is illegal under federal law, regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where the transferee/buyer resides.

 

[CopperySinger]

I can't discuss with people like you. Have fun with your black and white thinking.

Well you are discussing something here... You seem to want to have a word but you didn't offer anything meaningful in this conversation. You stated that you are not from the USA so I will inform you that it is more than a Black and White thing.

These white racist mass shooters want to erase all other pigments from the nation, as if this nation somehow belongs to them and them only. we are dealing with national terrorism this is a big deal. people who want to deny this problem exist are gaslighting making the problem worse. American people are being killed over here and your only interest is to have the last words filled with vield attacks and nonsense.

 

[FPV MIC]

Snip* Vehicle registration is just a tax on owning a vehicle. It also only works when someone actually goes through with registering the vehicle. I see cars driving around all the time with tags that are two years out of date, which means the last time someone registered it was 2017. It's incredibly hard to police too since a cop would need to be directly behind you and pay attention to the color of the sticker on your license plate.

A bit off topic but, it's not that hard really. We don't even have rego stickers on our cars here in Australia but it's policed pretty well with camera detection systems via the number plates. The onboard computer/camera systems in police cars pick them up automatically, as do speed cameras.
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/drivin...vehicle-registration/traffic-camera-detection

And yes, I know this couldn't be done with guns.

 

[PocketZeven]

Actually if you do not believe Big Brother (the Feds) do not already have a database on every new firearm sold in this country then please explain how they can take a guns serial number and easily trace it back to the original selling dealer and purchaser. That my friend is from the records the feds keep that they almost try to pretend they do not have.

Now granted they, the authorities do have a problem when a gun changes hand through a private sale after the initial purchase. As a gun owner myself for over a half a century I personally would have absolutely no problem if all firearms when sold, given away whatever to be legal had to have a background check done the same as when the gun was sold new.

I worked in a sporting goods store selling firearms in my teenage years and even back then in the very early 70's the forms to purchase a firearm were basically the same as they are today. Back then the paper transaction records were kept by the selling dealer and the feds would have to visit the dealers location to pull that specific sales paperwork. Today that information, gun serial number and brand and buyers information is given to the Feds during the background check and would immediately be entered into their database.

The requiring paperwork on all gun transfers would be a good move forward, other restrictive gun laws are just going to affect people that obey the law to begin with.

I do like how that racism is such a big deal when a "mass shooting" occurs but considering there are more shootings every weekend in say Chicago with the shooter being of color then race is never mentioned as the cause or reason for the violence against other citizens.

Same as when a police shooting it is only an issue when a white officer shoots a person of color the his motives are questioned. If a policeman shoots a white person then that person must be a neo nazi or white supremacist and the officers judgement or reasoning to shoot is never questioned.

During the last administrations terms in office the race relations in this country were set back 50 years. It has gotten to where everything now the race card is played one way or the other dividing the country. The only way to eliminate racism is to eliminate race being a factor in society and constantly playing the I am victim because I am whatever race will never accomplish eliminating racism.

Violence in our country is not a race or even a gun problem but a society problem that many are trying to use race as the excuse but it surely is not the answer.

I never referred it as a race problem? Are you referring to others?

Do you have a source of how firearms are registered by The FBI? Would like to know more!

In what way would restrictive gun laws affect law abiding citizens?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I never referred it as a race problem? Are you referring to others?

I am referring in general how the left leaning media in this country tries to make it be a race problem anytime there is a white officer involved shooting with a black victim, but if the victim is white you do not hear the same racial overtones even if the officer were black.

Do you have a source of how firearms are registered by The FBI? Would like to know more!

I do know that the FBI can take a weapons serial number and track down the firearms point of origin and its first initial sale. It used to take the agents having to pull the dealers paperwork but even back in the early 70's they knew which dealer had had that guns serial number within their inventory to know where to go to pull the paperwork.
All that information is of the serial number and the buyer is now called in with the background check, I feel surely that information is retained after it is called in.

In what way would restrictive gun laws affect law abiding citizens?

Because the only people that care about laws are law abiding citizens. As an example I know in the past all the parts to make an AK47 full auto and those parts could legally be purchased online. I also know that you only need to drill the receiver of a semi auto model in two locations to install the parts, most receivers are even dimpled where they need to be drilled. It is illegal to possess an AK47 that the receiver is drilled to accept the auto parts period.

A law abiding citizen would refrain from crossing that line and not use those legally available parts and illegally modify a legally obtainable semi auto AK47 to produce an illegal firearm. A convicted felon would not care about what the law stated just he could have a fully auto weapon.

Point being law abiding citizens follow the law and criminals could give a rats ass what the law says. Any laws passed only affect those that will follow the laws to begin with.

 

[mustafur]

Another Mass shooting happening as we speak in Philadelphia.

https://news.google.com/articles/CA...jtL_CjDIzfkCMILr6AU?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU:en

 

[Northstar]

The cops were supposedly serving a warrant and the perp opened fire. Not sure I would consider that as a mass shooting.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The cops were supposedly serving a warrant and the perp opened fire

I do not see how they even get anyone to fill a police officers job in today"s world and society. People are crazy and have no qualms about attacking a police officer and the officers when they do use force in many cases certain elements of the population want to criminally prosecute them for a split second decision that may decide a life and death situation they may be facing.

Easy for an arm chair qb sitting in their living room to say what they should or shouldn't do playing a video over and over in slow motion while not in danger but until a person walks in their shoes doing the job they do they have no right to pass judgement on many of these situations. Having a job where daily you deal with the scum of the population in your area and you hope each day you safely make it home to your wife and kids is worth a hell of a lot more than these guys make for a salary on average.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

These white racist mass shooters want to erase all other pigments from the nation

Where are the white racist shooters in Philly where 6 police officers have been shot?

 

[CopperySinger]

Where are the white racist shooters in Philly where 6 police officers have been shot?

Even cops are murdering people for an example, Micheal Slager 20 year prison sentence shooting an unarmed black man for no reason. people kill cops, cops kill people, so whats your point? and what does that have to do with mass shooting? you are obviously using that as a scapegoat/alternate-evil for the racist terror in our nation.

It is a disgrace the magnitude of racist terror that is plaguing us. these psychotic racist white mass shooters are a major threat to our country. I could not guess how long will it be before we hear about the next incident, these racist are at war with our nation.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Even cops are murdering people for an example, Micheal Slager 20 year prison sentence shooting an unarmed black man for no reason. people kill cops, cops kill people, so whats your point? and what does that have to do with mass shooting? you are obviously using that as a scapegoat/alternate-evil for the racist terror in our nation.

It is a disgrace the magnitude of racist terror that is plaguing us. these psychotic racist white mass shooters are a major threat to our country. I could not guess how long will it be before we hear about the next incident, these racist are at war with our nation.

Usually the ones that always cry it is racism are the biggest racist in our society. Funny how your spewed garbage that apparently the white male are the only humans that has racial overtones in their actions like no one else is capable of racist acts.

Please go back under your rock, you are a main part of the problem and no part of the solution.

 

[BobK]

It is a disgrace the magnitude of racist terror that is plaguing us. these psychotic racist white mass shooters are a major threat to our country. I could not guess how long will it be before we hear about the next incident, these racist are at war with our nation.

Pretty strong words. How about some statistics to back them up?

I see you've made no mention of the Dayton shooter (to name just one of many). Could that be because it doesn't fit your narrative?

 

[Famine]

These white racist mass shooters want to erase all other pigments from the nation, as if this nation somehow belongs to them and them only.

More young, black males are killed in gun violence every fortnight (usually by other young, black males) than all people of all ages and races killed in all spree-shootings in a year - but this apparently doesn't merit a needle-twitch on media coverage of gun violence.

If white racist mass shooters merely want to kill people from other races, they should just go into inner cities and give their guns away to anyone who wants them.

 

[SestoScudo]

More young, black males are killed in gun violence every fortnight (usually by other young, black males) than all people of all ages and races killed in all spree-shootings in a year - but this apparently doesn't merit a needle-twitch on media coverage of gun violence.

If white racist mass shooters merely want to kill people from other races, they should just go into inner cities and give their guns away to anyone who wants them.

Why should they because white supremacists dont like it when somebody shoots back.

 

[CopperySinger]

Usually the ones that always cry it is racism are the biggest racist in our society. Funny how your spewed garbage that apparently the white male are the only humans that has racial overtones in their actions like no one else is capable of racist acts.

Please go back under your rock, you are a main part of the problem and no part of the solution.

"go back under your rock"? man for this comment of personal attack, you need to be moderated for this hateful absurdity.


One would have to be a complete racist to defend this terrorism in our nation. Most of these non-violent racist cowards spend most of their time on social media forums everyday as if they are hiding in caves deflecting blame, scared to broadcast their hate in public. Attempting to gain empathy from others in order to validate evil intentions; then they become mass murderers. Almost all of these mass shooters and their parents consider themselves as the victims, which is pure stupidity.

 

[Famine]

Why should they because white supremacists dont like it when somebody shoots back.

I mean, I already answered that within the post you quoted:

More young, black males are killed in gun violence every fortnight (usually by other young, black males) than all people of all ages and races killed in all spree-shootings in a year - but this apparently doesn't merit a needle-twitch on media coverage of gun violence.

If white racist mass shooters merely want to kill people from other races, they should just go into inner cities and give their guns away to anyone who wants them.

It takes two weeks for regular gun violence to pass an entire year's spree-shooting in terms of bodycount. If you're young, male and black, you are 30 times more likely to be killed by someone else using a gun than if you are young, male and white (the second largest group among gun violence victims).


If a "white racist mass shooter" is motivated to kill people who aren't white, their gun would be more effective if given to young, male, black gang members than if they were to use it shoot up a mall/park/school themselves. By a full order of magnitude.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

"go back under your rock"? man for this comment of personal attack, you need to be moderated for this hateful absurdity.

I was not hateful, I actually was very polite and said Please!

One would have to be a complete racist to defend this terrorism in our nation. Most of these non-violent racist cowards spend most of their time on social media forums everyday as if they are hiding in caves deflecting blame, scared to broadcast their hate in public. Attempting to gain empathy from others in order to validate evil intentions; then they become mass murderers. Almost all of these mass shooters and their parents consider themselves as the victims, which is pure stupidity.

If you were talking about all forms of hate that may be considered then you would perhaps be engaging in meaningful subject matter. There are racist of all creeds, races and religions. Lets not forget BLM, Antifa and ISIS as well that promotes their brand of racism and the members are not white supremacist.

Race relations in this country are worse now in my opinion than they have been in over 50 years but trying to blame less than 1% of the white population who are members of these groups in this country for that is actually pretty weak and promoting and repeating exactly what these other racist group want you to believe. Ever heard of when a segment of the population are referred to as Sheep? There is a reason for that.

I will say that the blacks have their own tv channel, their own awards show, their own fashion show, the naacp, BLM, and expect preference in employment, college admissions, small business loans and this is just a sample and IT ALL IS BASED SOLELY OFF THE PIGMENT OF THEIR SKIN AND BEING BLACK! If a tv show was called whitish about a white family then of course that would instantly be racist but a tv show blackish is fine.

So if you want to discuss using and twisting racism in this country lets start with that. As far as being a danger to our country I think that 13% of the population committing over 50% of the nations crimes is more of a danger and threat than the limited shootings by crazy white people.

People in this country are tired of the race card, they are tired of every time they turn around that people are using race trying to hit the ghetto lottery by the I DN DO NUTHIN crowd. Civil rights were granted in this country 55 years ago and slavery was ended what 155 years ago so it is way past time for people to stand on their own laurels and accomplishments and take race out of it period!

I always hear about white privilege this and white privilege that but the only thing I personally ever saw was getting my white ass up every morning and going to work to earn a living and pay my bills to raise my family. NOTHING was given to me because I was white, I worked jobs and started at the bottom and advanced through hard work not because my skin was white.

So bottom line racism will never go away until race is not a factor, people in this country are getting tired of the excuse because it has been a century and a half since slavery was abolished and over a half a century since the civil rights bill. Just how long do people expect to use those as an excuse?

Time to quit blaming everyone else and do it on your own, when we have had a black president, black political leaders, black police chiefs it is way past time to get off the white man is holding me down train!