May I Present the Car Designer

  • Thread starter Amac500
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Exorcet
Take away the credit the restrictions and it sounds OK. There is nothing wrong with building X1's. Really, why even bring that up?

The only complex part would be the visuals. Just make a few pre designed bodies with changeable lights, etc.

I'd like to work out more details on how to design the cars, but it depends on how GT5 is coded. In any case, it should be unrestricted. You should be able to make anything from a 30,000 lb 50 hp bus to a 2,000 hp 800 lb XXXX1.
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They could make it like that but this is a sim and most people seem to have a gripe with that idea. That's why I made the idea realistic to match the games scenerios.
 
I suggested those things because they are realistic.

Also, you won't be able to rely on the game's designer interface making "X1 beater" construction difficult, or even requiring an engineering degree. The game just won't be able to simulate dynamics to such a realistic level.

GT5 already has a simple aero model, and a very simple tire model. To get this car builder idea to work, it will essentially have to be a feature where you give the game some parameters, and it creates an approximation to what such a car would drive in real life. In this approximation, it would probably fill in a few things that the player won't have any control over.
 
I'm sorry but...no. Just no. That's a whole new game requiring endless coding and physics possibilities and...no. Decent idea, just not for an addition to gt5. For the time and disc space that would require, we could have another 100 premium cars (thats a lowball) and enough new events to dwarf gt4, and I think most of us would take that any time. Copyright that thought though, maybe you could make the next Roller Coaster Tycoon lol.
 
It will require zero changes to physics and take up about zero disk space. Coding time is the only thing it will require. How do you think PD makes cars in the game? They enter parameters. All they need to do is make it so that you can make a new car model file and enter parameters. That's it. Not even close to 100 cars (unless people want to be able to sculpt their car's bodies down to the most minute detail).
 
Exorcet
I suggested those things because they are realistic.

Also, you won't be able to rely on the game's designer interface making "X1 beater" construction difficult, or even requiring an engineering degree. The game just won't be able to simulate dynamics to such a realistic level.

GT5 already has a simple aero model, and a very simple tire model. To get this car builder idea to work, it will essentially have to be a feature where you give the game some parameters, and it creates an approximation to what such a car would drive in real life. In this approximation, it would probably fill in a few things that the player won't have any control over.
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In your original post you said 2,000 horse power for a car and that was what struck me as simple unrealistic as the engines provided (V6, V12, etc.) don't supply that much horsepower. The game would supply the dynamics as a level solid enough to complete what I have outline very well, as, and I fell like a broken record saying it, they have the real world accuracy of the normal cars they made and the engine they use would essentialy be what we get as the programming is there and would only need to be modified to get into the game with user friendly interface
 
Exorcet
It will require zero changes to physics and take up about zero disk space. Coding time is the only thing it will require. How do you think PD makes cars in the game? They enter parameters. All they need to do is make it so that you can make a new car model file and enter parameters. That's it. Not even close to 100 cars (unless people want to be able to sculpt their car's bodies down to the most minute detail).
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You seem to be hitting on what I've been saying and It consevable would be poosible to hit every detail you want in the shape of you chassis as it is all shaping it with the angles you like. Also I may have slightly misread your last post that I responded to so my reponces may not quite fit to what you said.
 
dtn23
I'm sorry but...no. Just no. That's a whole new game requiring endless coding and physics possibilities and...no. Decent idea, just not for an addition to gt5. For the time and disc space that would require, we could have another 100 premium cars (thats a lowball) and enough new events to dwarf gt4, and I think most of us would take that any time. Copyright that thought though, maybe you could make the next Roller Coaster Tycoon lol.
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Read some of the other posts, many replys state how it is very possible. No matter what premium cars are added, no everybody could hav their favorite car(s) in the game and this is a way you could get them as you could make it yourself or I am possitive that others will begin to replicate real life cars as things like this happen in any game with such customization features. Therefore in or way or another everybody could squire their favorite cars or even create a dream car of their own.

And I'm not really the videogame coding type, I know the general things but I don't really see my self coding a whole game like that, LOL.
 
Exorcet
There are 3,000 hp cars running around. Not to mention 8,000 hp drag racers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84

2,000 is easy. There are Vipers with that much (claimed), 1,600 hp Ultima's, and 1,500+ hp race cars.
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But to my knowledge there aren't cars like that in the game. My Minolta got just over 1,000 after I tuned it but I didn't think there was one in the game. Well the tank engine on the Jay Leno car does come to think of it but alot of horsepower is a heavy engine and slows the car. I think I see what you are saying and I think we are on about the same page. I got you.

Also drag racing isn't part of the game so I didn't factor it.
 
Diesel Pump
He meant that the 15000 credit "fully customizable" transmission is only customizable for top speed, not for each gear independently... :ouch:
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Oh I know what you mean, and yes, I agree that does need fixing. I didn't say anything about gearbox in the original post though. Thanks for reminding me dude!
 
Well, I guess you guys told me :(

I didn't know it would be that easy. I figured something like this would be huge. But I'd still like a lot of things fixed before they add a build a bear workshop :D
 
Exorcet
It will require zero changes to physics and take up about zero disk space. Coding time is the only thing it will require. How do you think PD makes cars in the game? They enter parameters. All they need to do is make it so that you can make a new car model file and enter parameters. That's it. Not even close to 100 cars (unless people want to be able to sculpt their car's bodies down to the most minute detail).
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I'm just curious... how many commercial 3D racing games have you worked on as a developer? Or how many 3D games in general?

How do you know PD simply "enter parameters", and don't embed the parameters into data tags in the model files, or use dummy objects to include parametric data? Have you ever seen the models for the Richard Burns Rally cars? There is a lot of data already built into the models. Build a car to scale size, and a lot of calculations are done for you, no parameters required.

With the chassis modification, you are talking about changes on a vertex level. The only vertex manipulation the game does, is force calculations on impact to deform body panels, nothing else moves to that extent. There certainly won't be chassis deformations, the model won't have been built to cater for that. And the fact is, you HAVE to build the model to cater for that. You don't get a model with the flexibility to do anything you want with it, that's not how car models are made.

The best you would get, is a set of pre-defined chassis templates, a set of corresponding body shells (and maybe a few variations of bodystyle), but those bodyshells will take standardised wheels and tyres. You'd be able to choose engine parts and tuning options, but they'd make no visual difference to the car.

All it would end up with, is everyone racing the same shape car (whichever looks coolest), with the same tuning options (whichever goes fastest), in different coloured bodyshells. The time to create the mode, and for the game to be able to work with custom car data, would be too excessive for the limited results it would achieve. Trust me, I've worked on nearly 70 commercial games, what you ask for is impossible, beyond basic building blocks. You can't just throw in a design mode, unless it was planned for in the design concept.

They could achieve exactly the same thing, by expanding the parts section to inculde powertrain options... but it won't happen.

As for your note in the first post, you haven't explained the coding side of it at all. You have made presumptions, guesses, pure speculation of how the game works... nothing that would class as a "coding explanation". But please, feel free to elaborate on that section... I'd be interested to see it. Don't be afraid of going too technical in it, I'll understand.
 
Exorcet
The only complex part would be the visuals. Just make a few pre designed bodies with changeable lights, etc.
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That ain't really designing.....well unless you are chinese and have to make an entire car out of VW's parts bin. :yuck:

Anyone remembers the body morphing feature in NFS?? You can control the spines on a kit and change it shape, I always thought that was a really neat feature, although still way too restrictive to be consider designing.
 
LeeC2202
I'm just curious... how many commercial 3D racing games have you worked on as a developer? Or how many 3D games in general?

How do you know PD simply "enter parameters", and don't embed the parameters into data tags in the model files, or use dummy objects to include parametric data? Have you ever seen the models for the Richard Burns Rally cars? There is a lot of data already built into the models. Build a car to scale size, and a lot of calculations are done for you, no parameters required.

With the chassis modification, you are talking about changes on a vertex level. The only vertex manipulation the game does, is force calculations on impact to deform body panels, nothing else moves to that extent. There certainly won't be chassis deformations, the model won't have been built to cater for that. And the fact is, you HAVE to build the model to cater for that. You don't get a model with the flexibility to do anything you want with it, that's not how car models are made.

The best you would get, is a set of pre-defined chassis templates, a set of corresponding body shells (and maybe a few variations of bodystyle), but those bodyshells will take standardised wheels and tyres. You'd be able to choose engine parts and tuning options, but they'd make no visual difference to the car.

All it would end up with, is everyone racing the same shape car (whichever looks coolest), with the same tuning options (whichever goes fastest), in different coloured bodyshells. The time to create the mode, and for the game to be able to work with custom car data, would be too excessive for the limited results it would achieve. Trust me, I've worked on nearly 70 commercial games, what you ask for is impossible, beyond basic building blocks. You can't just throw in a design mode, unless it was planned for in the design concept.

They could achieve exactly the same thing, by expanding the parts section to inculde powertrain options... but it won't happen.

As for your note in the first post, you haven't explained the coding side of it at all. You have made presumptions, guesses, pure speculation of how the game works... nothing that would class as a "coding explanation". But please, feel free to elaborate on that section... I'd be interested to see it. Don't be afraid of going too technical in it, I'll understand.
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Show of hands, how many people here play GT5 on a 3D tv?????......... Yup that's what I thought, not to many.

Now, the technology is there from what they used from developing the game is the same basic thig used to shape aerodynamics which is what would visually appear of your car. They would need to embed it in the game and adapt in a user friendly interphase to make the car. As for your 3d theory they did it once so they already have the engine to run it through as part of the game. I got my boy Exorcet! So don't come on here and talk like everybody are tiny little inferior people to you, Thank You, Come Again Please!
 
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to the guy above:

the drag and aero characteristic of the cars in game has nothing to do with their graphical model, it is entered separately. The game isn't capable of calculating aerodynamical performance of a body shape and turn it into numbers.

not like the aero model of GT5 is that complex to start with.

the tool they used for modelling are either poly or nurbs based modelling tools, good luck operating one with a dual shock 3! have you actually tried modelling a semi detailed car in 3D max or maya?
 
dtn23
Well, I guess you guys told me :(

I didn't know it would be that easy. I figured something like this would be huge. But I'd still like a lot of things fixed before they add a build a bear workshop :D
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Oh no, I totally agree, there are alot of things that need fixing. The first thing that came to my mind was the daytona track which I talked about in another thread called Rolex 24 at Daytona and other notes. Check it out if ya like.
 
JJ72
to the guy above:

the drag and aero characteristic of the cars in game has nothing to do with their graphical model, it is entered separately. The game isn't capable of calculating aerodynamical performance of a body shape and turn it into numbers.

not like the aero model of GT5 is that complex to start with.

the tool they used for modelling are either poly or nurbs based modelling tools, good luck operating one with a dual shock 3! have you actually tried modelling a semi detailed car in 3D max or maya?
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Which guy above, me or the other guy?
 
JJ72
you were directly above me, so you. 👍
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Okay there was a quote so I wasn't sure.

Now, they coded the normal cars in the game with whatever system they used. Now if they can embed some of the programming used into making the cars into a user friendly interphase for the game. As far as space the engine may take up, that is why they could make it so that you must be online on play station network to use it so that the program could be backed up to an online data base. I'm not the best at wording these things, just like in my main post, so I know I'm not describing this the best but do ya see what I'm getting at? And I have taken a class where we learned about how to render 3D models so yes.
 
Amac500
And I have seen that NFS part before. But ya, never regarded NFS as much of a sim.
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But that tool isn't how they made the car model in the first place, it allows user to control a series of spines on a pre-built poly model, however the structure of a poly model itself still has to be created using traditional Poly modelling and NURBS modelling tools.

Those tools simply cannot be simplified for dual shock control without losing most of its functionality, even in its simpliest form like google sketchup, it is a precise and technical program.

the cloest to full design freedom with simply control is the tool in Spore, however you cannot fine tune the curves and lines of a body, or add in rivets and indents. And all cars will end up looking like boxes.

There's another way to do organic shapes, you may google autodesk mudbox, but that still isn't a tool you can make user friendly on a console.
 
JJ72
But that tool isn't how they made the car model in the first place, it allows user to control a series of spines on a pre-built poly model, however the structure of a poly model itself still has to be created using traditional Poly modelling and NURBS modelling tools.

Those tools simply cannot be simplified for dual shock control without losing most of its functionality, even in its simpliest form like google sketchup, it is a precise and technical program.

the cloest to full design freedom with simply control is the tool in Spore, however you cannot fine tune the curves and lines of a body, or add in rivets and indents. And all cars will end up looking like boxes.

There's another way to do organic shapes, you may google autodesk mudbox, but that still isn't a tool you can make user friendly on a console.
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Lets just be clear though, I'm not saying you are creating a shape from the ground up. I'm saying you have a premade shape that you then can adjust the degree/ radius of angles around the shape
 
oh yes than it is possible, I quoted the body morph from NFS as example too.

But seeing PD is having difficulty modelling a few static bumpers and skirts for even the headliner premium cars, we won't see anything like this until 2020. :P
 
JJ72
oh yes than it is possible, I quoted the body morph from NFS as example too.

But seeing PD is having difficulty modelling a few static bumpers and skirts for even the headliner premium cars, we won't see anything like this until 2020. :P
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GT5 deffinently disappointed with it's verious little bugs and they no doubt should be adressed. Despite the amount of cars everybody has cars they want addded. My hope for this was that if the your favorite car isn't there you could make it or create a dream car of your own. For everything like this I'm sure there would as always be those groups of people who would do things like replicate real cars exactly and such. Therefore I thought this would be a practical compromise and something that could add some fun to the game.
 

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