Mazda CX/MX range discussion

[05XR8]

The rear rem8nds me of a BMW. Didn’t think I’d see Mazda copy styling cues, at this point in their design language.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Initial impressions of the CX-50 with full reviews coming next month

Savage Geese's video on it with interviews from Dave Coleman, Mazda NA Vehicle Dynamics Manager, and Eiji Kimoto, Mazda Japan Chief Designer



The CX-50 is built on an elongated version of the Mazda3 / CX-30. This vehicle was designed specifically for the US market so it doesn't need to be thin for European or Japanese roads. Like the cars it's based on, it has a torsion beam rear suspension. Passenger space wise, it is objectively smaller than the CX-5, but it may not feel like it. Where the space went was to the cargo area where it has much for depth compared to the CX-5.

Overall, I think it's a pretty interesting car. I'm more excited for the RWD platform SUVs that are coming soon

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

It's by far the best looking vehicle in it's segment. It just looks good.

 

[05XR8]

.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

So I went to go look at a CX-50 over the weekend with my SO as a potential replacement for one of our aging vehicles (Not the Porsche). We also looked at a Kia Sportage and the CX-5. In person, the CX-50 feels a bit more wagon-like compared to the CX-5 which feels a lot more upright and SUV like. I know they are basically the same size, and the 50 actually had more ground clearance, but it feels a little more hunkered down than the CX-5. The rear cargo area is also longer, but not quite as tall. Taking a look in person confirmed my opinion that it's the best looking car in it's segment. I've always thought the CX-5 was handsome, but seeing them next to each other, the proportions and detailing of the 50 are a clear step up. Honestly, it's one of the best looking SUV's period, at least of the swoopy shaped ones. I really liked the interior of the CX-50 too - a sophisticated rugged minimalism, or something - though it did feel a bit more bunker-like than the CX-5 which seems to have a more airy & urban feel. The CX-50 is to the Subaru Outback as the CX-5 is to the Subaru forester, was my take. I think it's a good move by Mazda, because the Outback doesn't have much competition elsewhere.

Both Mazdas felt higher quality than the Sportage which was actually sort of disappointing to sit in. The only one on the lot was a lower trim model, but the interior just wasn't up to par. I really dislike Kia's choice to use piano black, particularly on buttons because they reflect light in an inconsistent way which made all of the button panels look sloppy and cheap. The big screens were kind interesting, but I struggle to see it as anything other than a cost cutting move. Considering the markups Kia is charging (4k at least on basically everything at that dealer) and the pretty weird styling, I pretty much dropped the Sportage from consideration.

Overall I was really impressed with the CX-50 and we are strongly considering ordering one. Probably a 2.5 S Preferred when they become available - though the hybrid would be a strong proposition depending on how expensive it ends up being.

[We went to a Toyota lot too, but the markups on the Rav4s were so hilarious that we didn't even want to sit in one. On the lot, they had a 2017 base model (cloth seats!) with 65k miles listed for $26k! That's a few grand more than that car would have been new!]

 

[Keef]

So I went to go look at a CX-50 over the weekend with my SO as a potential replacement for one of our aging vehicles (Not the Porsche). We also looked at a Kia Sportage and the CX-5. In person, the CX-50 feels a bit more wagon-like compared to the CX-5 which feels a lot more upright and SUV like. I know they are basically the same size, and the 50 actually had more ground clearance, but it feels a little more hunkered down than the CX-5. The rear cargo area is also longer, but not quite as tall. Taking a look in person confirmed my opinion that it's the best looking car in it's segment. I've always thought the CX-5 was handsome, but seeing them next to each other, the proportions and detailing of the 50 are a clear step up. Honestly, it's one of the best looking SUV's period, at least of the swoopy shaped ones. I really liked the interior of the CX-50 too - a sophisticated rugged minimalism, or something - though it did feel a bit more bunker-like than the CX-5 which seems to have a more airy & urban feel. The CX-50 is to the Subaru Outback as the CX-5 is to the Subaru forester, was my take. I think it's a good move by Mazda, because the Outback doesn't have much competition elsewhere.

Both Mazdas felt higher quality than the Sportage which was actually sort of disappointing to sit in. The only one on the lot was a lower trim model, but the interior just wasn't up to par. I really dislike Kia's choice to use piano black, particularly on buttons because they reflect light in an inconsistent way which made all of the button panels look sloppy and cheap. The big screens were kind interesting, but I struggle to see it as anything other than a cost cutting move. Considering the markups Kia is charging (4k at least on basically everything at that dealer) and the pretty weird styling, I pretty much dropped the Sportage from consideration.

Overall I was really impressed with the CX-50 and we are strongly considering ordering one. Probably a 2.5 S Preferred when they become available - though the hybrid would be a strong proposition depending on how expensive it ends up being.

[We went to a Toyota lot too, but the markups on the Rav4s were so hilarious that we didn't even want to sit in one. On the lot, they had a 2017 base model (cloth seats!) with 65k miles listed for $26k! That's a few grand more than that car would have been new!]

Just went to the site to build one and nowhere can I find the graphics and wheel accessories that all their marketing images have. What's the deal with that?

Edit: Apparently the Meridian Edition is the one with the all-terrain tires and tougher graphics and whatnot, and it won't be available until late 2022. Weird choice considering that's the only edition many people are going to be interested in lol. I don't know about you, but if I were in the market this decision by Mazda would force me to wait until late this year to get one by which time 2023 Maverick orders will be open and may include more adventure accessories than it already has. These two vehicles don't cross over from a luxury standpoint but from a utility/capability/adventure standpoint they certainly do.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Just went to the site to build one and nowhere can I find the graphics and wheel accessories that all their marketing images have. What's the deal with that?

Edit: Apparently the Meridian Edition is the one with the all-terrain tires and tougher graphics and whatnot, and it won't be available until late 2022. Weird choice considering that's the only edition many people are going to be interested in lol. I don't know about you, but if I were in the market this decision by Mazda would force me to wait until late this year to get one by which time 2023 Maverick orders will be open and may include more adventure accessories than it already has. These two vehicles don't cross over from a luxury standpoint but from a utility/capability/adventure standpoint they certainly do.

The Mazda is a far "nicer" product than the Maverick, I don't think there will be a lot of cross shopping to be honest. I would be changing my scope of consideration pretty widely to consider the Maverick, for instance - not something the SO is willing to do... The Mazda is more like an Audi Allroad or higher end Subaru. I see the Maverick as more of a vehicle for urban, young, single people or couples without kids - it fills the void that used to be occupied by genuinely affordable small trucks like how the Tacoma, S-10, Ranger, and Frontier used to be with some added comfort/economy/utility. The CX-50, Allroad, and Subaru Outback are geared a lot more towards suburbanites with families. I can see CX-50 buyers also buying a Maverick though.

Maverick - Utility / Economy / Adventure
CX-50 - Premium Look & Feel / Comfort / Space for Humans & Pets / Adventure

The Meridian Edition is nice and all, but I think pretty overkill for most people - and I doubt people willing to spend 45k would be all that interested in the Maverick. Even the top trim Lariat, with the 2.0 ecoboost, starts at a lower price than the base spec CX-50. The most in-demand Mavericks seem to be the cheaper ones.

Getting back to the CX-50 I will say that sand color looks great in person...I wish it was available on the poverty-spec cars. The standard AWD I think was a great move by Mazda - it makes the whole range feel legitimate in the same way Subarus feel legitimate.

 

[Keef]

The Mazda is a far "nicer" product than the Maverick, I don't think there will be a lot of cross shopping to be honest. I would be changing my scope of consideration pretty widely to consider the Maverick, for instance - not something the SO is willing to do... The Mazda is more like an Audi Allroad or higher end Subaru. I see the Maverick as more of a vehicle for urban, young, single people or couples without kids - it fills the void that used to be occupied by genuinely affordable small trucks like how the Tacoma, S-10, Ranger, and Frontier used to be with some added comfort/economy/utility. The CX-50, Allroad, and Subaru Outback are geared a lot more towards suburbanites with families. I can see CX-50 buyers also buying a Maverick though.

Maverick - Utility / Economy / Adventure
CX-50 - Premium Look & Feel / Comfort / Space for Humans & Pets / Adventure

The Meridian Edition is nice and all, but I think pretty overkill for most people - and I doubt people willing to spend 45k would be all that interested in the Maverick. Even the top trim Lariat, with the 2.0 ecoboost, starts at a lower price than the base spec CX-50. The most in-demand Mavericks seem to be the cheaper ones.

Getting back to the CX-50 I will say that sand color looks great in person...I wish it was available on the poverty-spec cars. The standard AWD I think was a great move by Mazda - it makes the whole range feel legitimate in the same way Subarus feel legitimate.

I think Subaru is going to have a hard time with both the CX-50 and the Maverick. The Mazda is a much nicer and more stylish car than any Subaru while being similarly capable (maybe more thanks to the automatic), while the Maverick offers the same capability but more utility than any Subaru.

Personally I'm not viewing any of these cars from an urban standpoint, that's just a factor of living in a place where AWD and sturdy tires are genuinely helpful. The Maverick hybrid fills a surprisingly high urban demand but is effectively a completely different vehicle and market than the FX4, CX-50, or Outback Wilderness. I don't think these three will be considered by a Maverick Hybrid buyer at all. These three are primarily family/utility/lifestyle/adventure vehicles offering different combinations of those traits and will go to suburban homes with $35-40k to spend on a vehicle that does everything. One of these cars will sell because it's stylish, another will sell because it's useful, and the third will sell because of its badge, but I do think they'll be cross-shopped fairly often. I assume the CX-50 is extremely new in dealerships because the Wilderness and FX4 seem to be selling rather well in southwest Ohio.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think Subaru is going to have a hard time with both the CX-50 and the Maverick. The Mazda is a much nicer and more stylish car than any Subaru while being similarly capable (maybe more thanks to the automatic), while the Maverick offers the same capability but more utility than any Subaru.

Personally I'm not viewing any of these cars from an urban standpoint, that's just a factor of living in a place where AWD and sturdy tires are genuinely helpful. The Maverick hybrid fills a surprisingly high urban demand but is effectively a completely different vehicle and market than the FX4, CX-50, or Outback Wilderness. I don't think these three will be considered by a Maverick Hybrid buyer at all. These three are primarily family/utility/lifestyle/adventure vehicles offering different combinations of those traits and will go to suburban homes with $35-40k to spend on a vehicle that does everything. One of these cars will sell because it's stylish, another will sell because it's useful, and the third will sell because of its badge, but I do think they'll be cross-shopped fairly often. I assume the CX-50 is extremely new in dealerships because the Wilderness and FX4 seem to be selling rather well in southwest Ohio.

I don't know why or how, but Subaru has a magic sauce. I don't even think a Subaru owner will tell you that the cars are good looking. It's like aggressively unpretentious styling. It's in your face about how much they don't care about styling. Driving a Subaru is like wearing flannel every day, which many Subaru owners probably do also. I'm guessing most of Subaru's repeat customers just buy a new one every 3-4 years because the long term ownership prospect of a Subaru powertrain is downright scary. I don't remember seeing a lot in the Midwest when I was there, and I didn't see them that often in Texas either, but they are all over the place in New England and NorCal.

The Mazda dealer I visited had just received their first CX-50s a few days before. They are basically just hitting the lots right now and have a lot of interest.

 

[Keef]

I don't know why or how, but Subaru has a magic sauce. I don't even think a Subaru owner will tell you that the cars are good looking. It's like aggressively unpretentious styling. It's in your face about how much they don't care about styling. Driving a Subaru is like wearing flannel every day, which many Subaru owners probably do also. I'm guessing most of Subaru's repeat customers just buy a new one every 3-4 years because the long term ownership prospect of a Subaru powertrain is downright scary. I don't remember seeing a lot in the Midwest when I was there, and I didn't see them that often in Texas either, but they are all over the place in New England and NorCal.

The Mazda dealer I visited had just received their first CX-50s a few days before. They are basically just hitting the lots right now and have a lot of interest.

Y'all have hipster Subaru owners out there. That's not really a thing here, it's more the progressive upscale suburban types. They're like teachers and stuff. Super basic, just like their Subaru. My buddy's wife and her mom have both owned a couple Foresters and he hates it but that's what she wanted. I think he's finally convinced her to get something else next time since that Forester isn't particularly good at anything.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Dieselgate? Never heard of it, says Mazda

Mazda details new 3.3-liter turbocharged diesel straight-six | Autoblog - Autoblog

Mazda unveiled a new 3.3-liter turbodiesel straight-six engine for overseas markets. The engine makes up to 254 horsepower in the CX-60.

www.autoblog.com

Mazda has introduced its long-promised turbodiesel straight-six engine. Called e-Skyactiv D, the 3.3-liter six-cylinder was developed for markets outside of America, and it's presented as one of the cleanest-burning diesel engines in the world thanks to clever technology.

The company explained that it designed the e-Skyactiv D engine "to meet the needs of customers who want an efficient, long-distance driving car with great towing capacity." At launch, the straight-six will be offered in two states of tune: 200 horsepower with rear-wheel-drive and 254 horsepower with all-wheel-drive. Its torque output checks in at up to 407 pound-feet, and it works with a 48-volt mild hybrid system.

Mazda notes that the new turbodiesel features a technology called Distribution-Controlled Partially Premixed Compression Ignition (DCPCI) that helps it achieve a thermal efficiency of over 40%, which is higher than average. In turn, this improves fuel economy and increases the driving range, which we're told is "outstanding." The rest of the figures quoted by the manufacturer are equally impressive: the 200-horse six-cylinder's average fuel economy is rated at 48 mpg using the European testing cycle, while the more powerful version returns 44 mpg. The latter gives the CX-60 a usable 5,500-pound towing capacity, yet it's about as light as the 2.2-liter four-cylinder diesel offered in the CX-5.

 

[Keef]

Dieselgate? Never heard of it, says Mazda

Mazda details new 3.3-liter turbocharged diesel straight-six | Autoblog - Autoblog

Mazda unveiled a new 3.3-liter turbodiesel straight-six engine for overseas markets. The engine makes up to 254 horsepower in the CX-60.

www.autoblog.com

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Dieselgate was not a big deal outside of places that a very environmentally conscious like Europe. Not sure where they're going to sell this but in places like the Middle East or Australia it'll probably sell just fine. It would sell in the US likely as well, especially with those numbers.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

CX-90 Teased, inline 6 headed for US Market

 

[Keef]

So supposedly the CX-90's styling is related to the CX-60 but have we been over the fact that the CX-60 is atrocious? I already see double-body color fender flares in that shot so I know it's going to be bad.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Yeah, I agree that the CX-60 is kinda ugly. My biggest gripe with it is the headlights. They're sort of like bug eyes and they don't sit flush with anything. I love the CX-5 because of how the headlights are incorporated with the rest of the design. Also, the CX-60's nose is too vertical and flat.

I think the pre-facelift CX-5 is one of the best looking SUVs out there right now

 

[Keef]

Mostly agreed. While I love the CX-5's design language, proportions, and aggressive headlights and grille, I do think they could've been effectively adapted to the rear-drive proportions of the CX-60. Those proportions usually make everything better but not in this case. Instead, they got rid of the sporty grille, the cool samurai sword frame, the headlights that were integrated into the sword, and they made it look like a truck instead of a sporty SUV. Also those side vent things are garish.

I will say it looks much better with the black lower trim and wheel arches. You just posted the first photo I've ever seen of the CX-60 with black trim @ProjectWHaT. But it's still looks too flat and skinny and vertical. The CX-5 is better and the CX-50 is in another league altogether.

 

[05XR8]

I feel it looks Range Roverish(not by accident) in silhouette. Short front overhang, long rear overhang. I don’t mind it.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

new CX-90 teaser featuring an e-Skyactiv PHEV badge

2024 Mazda CX-90 Teaser Reveals PHEV Powertrain, Rear End Styling

The latest teaser for the Mazda CX-90 reveals that it gets a plug-in hybrid powertrain. This is the brand's first nationally available electrified vehicle.

www.motor1.com

The latest teaser for the Mazda CX-90 reveals that it gets a plug-in hybrid powertrain that the company calls E Skyactiv PHEV. This is the brand's first nationally available electrified vehicle. The image also shows off the tail of the upcoming crossover. The model's full debut is in January 2023.

A person holding a charging cable is out of focus but visible on the right side of the image. This suggests the plug for the PHEV system is on the passenger side of the CX-90.

The earlier CX-90 teaser (above) shows an inline-six badge on the vehicle. What's not clear is whether this is also the PHEV powertrain. Mazda's announcement says "the first-ever 2024 CX-90 will be available nationwide as a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle." However, it doesn't stipulate the model would only come as a PHEV.

Mazda could also install the plug-in hybrid 2.5-liter four-cylinder from the CX-60 into the CX-90. It has a total system output of 323 horsepower (241 kilowatts) and 369 pound-feet (500 Newton-meters) of torque. This setup gets the crossover to 62 miles per hour (100 kilometers per hour) in 5.8 seconds and a 124 mph (200 kph) top speed. The 17.8-kilowatt-hour battery provides 39 miles (63 kilometers) of range in the WLTP combined cycle.

The CX-60 is also available with a 3.3-liter inline six with a 48-volt mild-hybrid system in some markets. It makes 280 hp (209 kW) and 331 lb-ft (450 Nm) for Australia. The output could be different in other applications.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That looks too much like BMW's newest rear light design for my liking. However I think this has the potential to be a very good product for Mazda - I think only offering it as a PHEV would be a USP in this segment, I'm not sure it would have a direct competitor in that regard.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

After so much talk, Mazda finally announces the MX-30 with the rotary range extender

Mazda MX-30 With Rotary Engine Debuts January 13 At Brussels Motor Show

The rotary returns. Mazda will debut the version of the MX-30 with a Wankel engine as a range extender on January 13 at the Brussels Motor Show.

www.motor1.com

Mazda will debut the version of the MX-30 with a Wankel engine as a range extender on January 13 at the Brussels Motor Show. This model will be available in Europe in the spring.

Mazda's announcement only mentions the rotary range-extender for the European market. In 2021, the automaker's North American operations boss said the Wankel-equipped version was eventually coming to the US. He didn't offer any specific timing for the availability.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Quietly excited about this. If the price (and incentives) are right, this might be a really unique product out there. If the REX can deliver comparable range to something like a Tesla M3 (at least a base) for a lot less money it could be a really compelling option for a lot of people. I know I would be interested as a PHEV booster. I don't really care that it's a rotary though here it is almost inarguably being used in a way that maximises it's benefits while limiting its drawbacks. This might actually be the killer app for the Wankel, not the raucous, flame spitting prime mover, but the quiet power generator unit you don't even notice.

 

[Keef]

Quietly excited about this. If the price (and incentives) are right, this might be a really unique product out there. If the REX can deliver comparable range to something like a Tesla M3 (at least a base) for a lot less money it could be a really compelling option for a lot of people. I know I would be interested as a PHEV booster. I don't really care that it's a rotary though here it is almost inarguably being used in a way that maximises it's benefits while limiting its drawbacks. This might actually be the killer app for the Wankel, not the raucous, flame spitting prime mover, but the quiet power generator unit you don't even notice.

With a battery that small it could easily save thousands of dollars off the cost. If ICE range extenders can handle Dakar then I'd say this is the real hybrid solution that Toyota missed out on with the Prius.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

With a battery that small it could easily save thousands of dollars off the cost. If ICE range extenders can handle Dakar then I'd say this is the real hybrid solution that Toyota missed out on with the Prius.

Man...I was just thinking...what if Mazda were to offer the whole unit as a package APU "crate motor" that could be installed in anything? It should be tiny, right? I suspect it will have only 50kw* of power (or less) but it could be a cool if I could, for instance, stick one in my first gen RX-7 and replace the gas tank with a 15kwh battery - around 93kg worth of battery. My RX-7 would only need 15hp to maintain 60mph and so a 15kwh battery could supply that power for 1.3 hours, covering 80 miles. Assuming a 50kw onboard generator, accounting for losses, that unit could easily maintain cruising speed until the fuel depleted, though once the battery was used up, you'd be limited to ~40kw of power, basically limp mode. But lets say it has a 2 gallon tank and burns that fuel at a rate of 60mpg while in operation. You'd get an additional 120 miles of operation until both systems are empty, for a total of 200 miles. Not bad. I'm guessing the little APU will weigh around 100kg all in, and the battery and 2 gallons of fuel would be another 100kg. Add another 50kg for the prime mover motor and associated controls. The original 13b weighs around 150kg so you're only gaining 100kg over stock depending on how you transmit the power to the rear end...not too bad.

*For reference, an off the shelf 50kw generator is this big:

 

[Omnis]

I just hope they engineered it to be easily serviceable. Imagine all the youtube videos of guys rebuilding their little range extenders on their bench tops

 

[ProjectWHaT]

2024 CX-90 teased in an "unboxing" video. There'll be more videos in the coming weeks

 

[Keef]

Where are his shoes?

I like those wheels, that's a good start. Very premium looking. Not sure about the grill as the elemens seem vertical which I typically don't like.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Where are his shoes?

Lmao, I did not notice that. That's hilarious

I like those wheels, that's a good start. Very premium looking. Not sure about the grill as the elemens seem vertical which I typically don't like.

The grill seems to be exactly like the CX-60

The interior transmission tunnel is also the same as the CX-60

 

[Omnis]

So when do we steal the Relic?

 

[ProjectWHaT]

3.3 liter inline 6 turbo making 340 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque (on premium fuel)

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Mazda has a habit of sacrificing on-paper headline numbers for really tractable powertrains, so I suspect this one will be a really good fit for this car even if the power numbers are not immediately impressive looking. I'm liking the silhouette.