Mazda MX-5 Cup Official Thread

[Smallhorses]

As I've said before this is a shame, because this had the potential to be a great little series.
You've repeatedly ignored offers of help & suggestions from some of the most experienced racers and series organisers on these forums, and yet since you're unwilling to spend the time to respond to many requests for clear information, you've left a lot of people here with the worry that it mightn't be worth running a race, since we've no idea if we're playing within the rules which were woolier than a sheep wearing a cashmere sweater!
With the attitude that "If you don't like it, I'm not bothering to run it anymore" you've inspired no confidence from the outset that the series was ever going to run to completion anyway. 👎

I'm going to leave this thread open for now so that others may leave their feedback too, so long as it is constructive criticism that may help you learn from the mistakes made here and doesn't degenerate into personal abuse.
It may well be beneficial for you to learn from people like EDK & RACECAR.

I'll lock this in a week from now unless anyone else wishes to take over the reins here to continue these events.

 

[RACECAR]

As I've said before this is a shame, because this had the potential to be a great little series.
You've repeatedly ignored offers of help & suggestions from some of the most experienced racers and series organisers on these forums, and yet since you're unwilling to spend the time to respond to many requests for clear information, you've left a lot of people here with the worry that it mightn't be worth running a race, since we've no idea if we're playing within the rules which were woolier than a sheep wearing a cashmere sweater!
With the attitude that "If you don't like it, I'm not bothering to run it anymore" you've inspired no confidence from the outset that the series was ever going to run to completion anyway. 👎

I'm going to leave this thread open for now so that others may leave their feedback too, so long as it is constructive criticism that may help you learn from the mistakes made here and doesn't degenerate into personal abuse.
It may well be beneficial for you to learn from people like EDK & RACECAR.

I'll lock this in a week from now unless anyone else wishes to take over the reins here to continue these events.

I don't want to see this great series go down just because the person in charge doesn't seem clear on whats going on or what to do nor seems willing to take advice and improve so I would like to take over and keep it going. I would also like to share duties with EDK if he's fine with that.

Since I do such a horrible job running this series will this is OVER please close this thread



Do not comment anymore

That kind of attitude makes you look very bratty and childish. I or EDK would've helped you out if you needed. You don't seem to listen to anything that could help you out. You shouldn't run a series if you aren't willing to improve.

 

[EDK]

I don't want to see this great series go down just because the person in charge doesn't seem clear on whats going on or what to do nor seems willing to take advice and improve so I would like to take over and keep it going. I would also like to share duties with EDK if he's fine with that.

I'm fine with that. Send me a PM and we can discuss how to split. We can either take different weeks, or one of us can do the leaderboard and the other results, etc.

Let me know your thoughts. 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

I will also contact Green_Flag regarding editing some of his posts so that we can keep the results and rules in his original posts if he's OK with that.
Technically I can edit everything into his posts already, but I'd like to at least request his permission first.

I'll leave EDK & RACECAR to step into the breach with a clear set of unambiguous rules for racing, deadlines and submission formats. 👍

Looks like we have a race on our hands after all. 👍

 

[jmgyro]

Well I'm not sure if we are starting over or not, but here is my replay anyways.
Pretty close times Smallhorses, was a bit worried since I had been doing 1'57.6 lap 1's, but with some minor bumps from the AI then an almost clean lap 1 of 1'59.9, so I guess the AI had been helping me more than I thought the first time I ran it.

By the way what did you get Jerome?

Also can we change the next race to Fuji 2005 GT, much funner track although with the AI I'm not sure. And my name is jmgyro not jimgyro

 

[Jump_Ace]

You got me beat bro I had a 15:11.119 with a fastest lap of 1:52.612. Only did a few full attempts, lots of restarting and exiting to find the right AI tho :/ Here's the replay.

Jerome

 

[EDK]

I will also contact Green_Flag regarding editing some of his posts so that we can keep the results and rules in his original posts if he's OK with that.
Technically I can edit everything into his posts already, but I'd like to at least request his permission first.

I'll leave EDK & RACECAR to step into the breach with a clear set of unambiguous rules for racing, deadlines and submission formats. 👍

Looks like we have a race on our hands after all. 👍

I think we should just start a new thread for this so we can do as you have said by laying out a clear set of rules. That way, those running the series are able to adjust the posts as needed for leaderboard and results. I don't think we should have all the races in one thread anyhow, it gets too confusing.

RACECAR and I need to work out how to split duties and get the rules worked out, we should be able to have a clear leaderboard posted and a new race thread for this week's race with the updated rules by tomorrow. 👍

 

[Green_Flag]

I just can't believe how ignorant people are. All you had to do was read the rules. As long as you didn't break any of the rules you weren't cheating. It's just that simple.

 

[Smallhorses]

Point me to the part in your post where it states that submissions in the incorrect format would be disqualified?

Bear in mind that were it not for the collection of racers that made suggestions throughout the warmup race and week 1, that half of the rules you've edited into the first post wouldn't be there!

 

[RACECAR]

I find it funny you put this:

I am open to any suggestions to make the MX-5 Cup as fun and as exciting as possible.

And then a race later, this:

Since I do such a horrible job running this series will this is OVER please close this thread

Do not comment anymore

Also, your rules weren't clear for us "ignorant people" to understand. Funny how you say we're ignorant yet your the guy throwing a fit when people are pointing out some flaws you still have yet to fix and just expect us to get use to it.

 

[EDK]

I just can't believe how ignorant people are. All you had to do was read the rules. As long as you didn't break any of the rules you weren't cheating. It's just that simple.

I think this post qualifies as a personal attack.

I've run a lot of OLR here on GTP, and this series was doomed from the beginning. You have to be around to answer questions, and you have to be clear about the rules. You were not. The policy of if it's not in the rules, assume it's OK does not fly with me. I could have run a much faster race using the AI as a wall to get around turns and putting them on harder tires than mine.

I like to know I'm racing on a level playing field, and I only entered here because proven racers that I respect were running. I've lost what little respect I might have had for you, and I would suggest you are the ignorant one.

 

[Green_Flag]

You guys say i'm being childish but you are the ones sitting here all day crying about this.

 

[RACECAR]

You guys say i'm being childish but you are the ones sitting here all day crying about this.

So apparently we are "crying" over a problem that hasn't been solved for about a week? I could see if it was just one person, but seeing as its been four people, including a mod and two experienced Administraitors and a proven racer, who have a problem, I think we actually do have a reason. Its also funny how we're "crying" yet your the guy who can't take criticism to better youself to run a series even when you said it. With this series now in EDK and my hands, aren't you technically "crying" since you're through with it?

 

[Smallhorses]

You guys say i'm being childish but you are the ones sitting here all day crying about this.

Wrong.
We're the ones here trying to organise a way of keeping your race series going without you, after you've spat-your-dummy, thrown your toys out of the pram and are now calling us "ignorant" while you've cried off.

All we asked for from the very beginning, was a clear set of rules from you all in one place. Instead we have to discuss what you might mean by certain things, trawl through 2 threads of 3 or 4 pages each trying to find where you may (or more likely, may not) have provided definitive answers.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the rules and how we've gradually arrived at them throughout several weeks of racing already are about as clear as this:

Several times you've selectively answered a question from a post which contains several queries, but chosen to only answer one part, while ignoring everything else. For example, this morning when you popped back up with an answer to my question regarding the significance of the fastest laptime, but chose to ignore the question regarding why you'd've PM'd Jump_Ace for his fastest laptime if you were going to ignore it when he sent it to you anyway?
Both questions were in the same post.

 

[EDK]

Not sure about you guys, but I'm ready to move on here.

RACECAR and I have already some to an agreement on how we will split our administrative duties.

He will post the weekly races, while I am responsible for maintaining the leaderboard and results.

We are finalizing CONCRETE and UNDERSTANDABLE rules at this time, and should have the next race up in short order. And of course, we will be around to answer any questions that might pop up during the week, as well as provide clarification to any potential gray areas in the rules. Because none of us are perfect, but we want to be sure everyone is confident that they are submitting a fair, clean race, while the other participants are doing the same.

Race deadline will be on Sunday evenings PST. So you will still have over a week to complete the next race. 👍

Stay Tuned.


Kevin

 

[Smallhorses]

I'm in the process of trying to verify Jump_Ace & jmgyro's replays, so I'll be back in a while with green flags...

In the meantime, here's my effort! My total time was 3/10ths slower than Jerome's, but my fastlap at 1'52.315 was 3/10ths faster than his. He's obviously just consistently quicker than me!

*Edit* jmgyro's is a great replay, only 1 point of contact with the AI and otherwise very quick and consistent. More than happy to give this a 👍

Jump_Ace's on the other hand is going to be a subjective thing. There's a lot of AI contact and one incident in particular that I'd personally consider dirty, but then the AI contact rules have never been properly verified, so unfortunately we're left with a grey area here too.
(The contact in question is with the Hyundai HCD6 at turn 7 of lap 1.) I'd like to get someone else's input on this too.

As a final say on this event, since the series is going to be restarted by EDK & RACECAR, I'd say we chalk this race up to being the warmup event, since we can't apply new rules to it after the fact, and use the replays from this week to set the boundaries of what's deemed legal or not. 💡
(Look forward to seeing some more to see if there's more like mine & jmgyro's or if more people interpreted the rules as Jump_Ace did and was well within his rights to do so.)

 

[EDK]

Just grabbed the max drive now to pull these 3 and some ARCAT replays. Will post my replay up when done checking. 👍

 

[RACECAR]

I just relised, I have no idea how to watch these

 

[Smallhorses]

Do you have a MAX Drive?

If so, save the posted files to the MAX Drive while it's plugged into your PC.
Then plug the MAX Drive into PS2 and make sure you use the "UNCRUSH" option to copy them to the Memory Card. (Using "COPY" will copy a crushed file to the Mem Card, which GT4 cannot read)
Now load GT4 and you should be able to view the replay files that're now on your mem card. 👍

 

[EDK]

Here's my reply. I've watched jmgyro's so far, and I agree that it's clean, just a small touch. For some reason, Jump_Ace's did not copy to my max drive, trying again now.

jmgyro's replay is more similar to the first races I had. But TBH, once the rules were not clearly defined, I took more liberty with the AI in this run. Have a look at let me know what you guys think. Unfortunately, like Nick said, this might have to be warmup #2. But we will not have warmup #3.

Let us know your thoughts.

 

[Smallhorses]

Here's my reply. I've watched jmgyro's so far, and I agree that it's clean, just a small touch. For some reason, Jump_Ace's did not copy to my max drive, trying again now.

I had the same issue trying to copy both jmgyro and Jump_Ace's replays to the Mem card at the same time, so I'm thinking it might've been a filename conflict or something, Jerome's was listed as Gran Turismo 4 Full Replay [9], and if jmgyro's had the same number afterwards that can cause issues. Oddly enough in the MAX Drive software though, jmgyro's replay appeared simply as NEW_FILE and I had issues with copying it first time round. They both worked if I downloaded and transferred them separately, one at a time though, as tiresome as that is!

 

[EDK]

I took a look at Jerome's and Nick's replays, mainly focusing on the AI affected areas and fast forwarding through non AI laps. I had the most contact of the 4 replays. My questionable contact also occurred in turn 7, with the Skyline, in may case.

My proposal is that we take the results from this race into account but better define the rules going forward. My logic is that neither of us gained a significant enough advantage with the tactics to alter the outcome of the race. Both of us were ahead of the next racer by about 3 seconds in total, and neither of us made a move that would gain 3 seconds. I don't believe either of us should be DQ'd, since contact was not defined in the rules and the race steward never answered my question in regard to contact. I think we should either call this a warmup or accept the results, "as is".

That said, I'm willing to accept whatever outcome my fellow racers deem appropriate.

 

[RACECAR]

Do you have a MAX Drive?

If so, save the posted files to the MAX Drive while it's plugged into your PC.
Then plug the MAX Drive into PS2 and make sure you use the "UNCRUSH" option to copy them to the Memory Card. (Using "COPY" will copy a crushed file to the Mem Card, which GT4 cannot read)
Now load GT4 and you should be able to view the replay files that're now on your mem card. 👍

I unfortunately don't have it, though now I know what it is.

 

[Green_Flag]

Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.

It can also be against the law.

 

[EDK]

Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.

It can also be against the law.

Isn't the premise of this race plagiarism? Based on the Real life MX-5 Cup.

What are you thinking, trying to go up against a Moderator and several proven OLR racers?

Just go back to your corner.

 

[Ren-Tec]

Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.

It can also be against the law.

But first the "Author" has to get their work in copy write in order for it to be Plagiarism of any meaning or legality.

Now i say to you, leave it!

 

[Smallhorses]

What are you thinking, trying to go up against a Moderator and several proven OLR racers?

Just go back to your corner.

That's a little rude, and the fact that I'm a Moderator has nothing to do with the fact that I've asked the questions I've asked, wanted the clarifications I've requested and have tried to keep us all singing from the same hymn sheet when we've all been given hymn books in different languages.
Let's keep it civil and non-personal here, Green_Flag's comments were not directed at anyone in particular.
I'm a contributing member of this site first and foremost, and a Moderator only when action has to be taken, as yet there's been nothing and nobody that's needed moderating in this thread. 👍

However, I can hardly see how continuing an already posted event is plagiarism, unless Green_Flag can show us his business plan, trademarks and copyrights and any patents he has for the MX-5 Cup.
I'd also like to see his authorisation from Boombexus, who was the first organiser of an online racing event using a GT Game at GT Planet an idea that he could claim we've all plagiarised if we follow Green_Flag's logic!
Then we'll start worrying about the lawyers.

Basically Green_Flag you either need to:

A) Organise this race series properly.

or

B) Hand over the reins to someone else that's willing to do it and then "race on" without the organisational duties and enjoy what you've help to create.

Option C) is to go on sulking and hope somebody gives you some sympathy, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for that.

Once the replay validation is done (I'll be checking EDK's replay shortly) this thread is getting closed and we'll go on racing in a new, well organised arena.

If Green_Flag then wishes to participate in the new events, I see no reason why he can't, but if he chooses to cause trouble, then I'll refer the matter to the rest of the moderating staff so that they can deal with it impartially.

 

[EDK]

That's a little rude, and the fact that I'm a Moderator has nothing to do with the fact that I've asked the questions I've asked, wanted the clarifications I've requested and have tried to keep us all singing from the same hymn sheet when we've all been given hymn books in different languages. Let's keep it civil and non-personal here,

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or make personal slights here.

I'll stay out of this, as my emotions have become involved.

 

[Jump_Ace]

To be perfectly honest, I allowed myself some AI contact because the rules were unclear I had to go on the assumption that others would as well. Or else my standings at the end would suffer. If there was a rule about NO AI contact, I would have adhered to that. I'm sorry this has caused such a debacle but it was waiting to happen Oh and Nick...where F- did that fastest lap come from? lol, great one dude! I look forward to the 'revised' MX-5 cup 👍

Jerome

 

[Green_Flag]

That's a little rude, and the fact that I'm a Moderator has nothing to do with the fact that I've asked the questions I've asked, wanted the clarifications I've requested and have tried to keep us all singing from the same hymn sheet when we've all been given hymn books in different languages.
Let's keep it civil and non-personal here, Green_Flag's comments were not directed at anyone in particular.
I'm a contributing member of this site first and foremost, and a Moderator only when action has to be taken, as yet there's been nothing and nobody that's needed moderating in this thread. 👍

However, I can hardly see how continuing an already posted event is plagiarism, unless Green_Flag can show us his business plan, trademarks and copyrights and any patents he has for the MX-5 Cup.
I'd also like to see his authorisation from Boombexus, who was the first organiser of an online racing event using a GT Game at GT Planet an idea that he could claim we've all plagiarised if we follow Green_Flag's logic!
Then we'll start worrying about the lawyers.

Basically Green_Flag you either need to:

A) Organise this race series properly.

or

B) Hand over the reins to someone else that's willing to do it and then "race on" without the organisational duties and enjoy what you've help to create.

Option C) is to go on sulking and hope somebody gives you some sympathy, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for that.

Once the replay validation is done (I'll be checking EDK's replay shortly) this thread is getting closed and we'll go on racing in a new, well organised arena.

If Green_Flag then wishes to participate in the new events, I see no reason why he can't, but if he chooses to cause trouble, then I'll refer the matter to the rest of the moderating staff so that they can deal with it impartially.

I don't care who takes it over because I am not going to be racing in it cause I feel hated by everyone. I hope whoever takes it over does a good job. I would have done better if I had the time but I don't right now.