Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes/The Phantom Pain

[Luminis]

Got around to playing some more Improved to a B-rank, got some unlockable weapons (didn't no there were any). Eager to play around with the rocket launcher

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Improved to a B-rank, got some unlockable weapons (didn't no there were any).

You'll get more still if you A- and S-rank the missions.

 

[Shirrako]

MGS V GZ is only $6, finally bought the game, that's the price it deserves to be.

 

[JvM]

Where?

Edit: Oh on psn I guess. Still waiting for a little price drop on pc. If no drop I'll get it before the sale ends.

 

[Shirrako]

Where?

Edit: Oh on psn I guess. Still waiting for a little price drop on pc. If no drop I'll get it before the sale ends.

I think it ends tomorrow so just get it now, PC came out not too long ago so no price drop on that one for sure.

 

[JvM]

Steam sale ends Jan 2nd, I'll get it by then.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The Phantom Pain to feature over 150 missions?

 

[Jawehawk]

I hope it won't be filled with horrible filler missions like Peace Walker. Really hated a lot in that game.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I hope it won't be filled with horrible filler missions like Peace Walker. Really hated a lot in that game.

I think that a big part of that was the limitations of the device. A lot of the environments were recycled, so there was a need for variety in mission types to keep the game from getting repetitive, especially in Extra Ops.

My only real issue with the game was the boss fights and vehicle take-downs. They were completely out of place in the series given the focus on action, and they got repetitive fast - there were usually only minor variations between vehicles, and the tactics never changed (except for the helicopter bomber).

 

[Sanji Himura]

It was like you said, a lot of that had to do with the limitations of the hardware. Besides, the bite size missions in Peace Walker will pale in comparison to The Phantom Pain, which Kojima has stated that a typical mission in the game would take anywhere from 30 minutes to up to two hours. Multiply that by 150, then you would easily invest weeks in the single player campaign without even trying.

 

[Jawehawk]

Well, I suppose the individual missions in Ground Zeroes show great promise of how you can use one map in incredibly varied ways. But even then, it's so out of context in relation to the main story. I know that's why they're called pseudo recreations, but it might make it difficult to fully invest in the story.

That said, MGS V is still my most anticipated release of the year.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm very curious to see how Kojima handles the conventions of open-world games. Typically, they amount to "go to this corner of the map that you haven't seen yet and do some missions". It's a system that hasn't really changed since GTA III and the earliest open-world games, and it can be a problem when the story starts to drift and you end up carrying out story missions with no real understanding of why you're doing it or who you're doing it for. ASSASSIN'S CREED II was particularly guilty of this - after presenting the original conspiracy, the story kept adding layers to it, and some of those layers were unnecessary. GTA V found a clever way around this, with multiple protagonists, as there was one over-arching storyline and one for each character that you could switch between. Likewise RED DEAD REDEMPTION, which presented its story in three distinct chapters, with each being a self-contained narrative. But the gameplay mechanics have largely remained untouched, at least until GZ started fiddling around with them.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Well, I suppose the individual missions in Ground Zeroes show great promise of how you can use one map in incredibly varied ways. But even then, it's so out of context in relation to the main story. I know that's why they're called pseudo recreations, but it might make it difficult to fully invest in the story.

That said, MGS V is still my most anticipated release of the year.

That's true, but in the context of story, only one was considered canon, the Ground Zeroes mission itself.

@prisonermonkeys, I agree, but I think that Kojima has things very well in hand.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm just a bit apprehensive about missions that only take a few minutes - it brings back memories of GTA V where one of the missions was "buy clothes".

I get that not every mission can be two hours long - but the beauty of the Side Ops in GZ was that they felt like complete stories. "Classified Intel" was the only one that could be rushed through, and even then, you had to know exactly what you were doing, and you could only really rush it on a repeat play-through.

That's one of the two things I hope gets changed for TPP (the other being the clumsy weapon selection): time limits for ranks. You need to be quick to get an S-rank, but I like taking my time and finding creative solutions to progressing - like sticking C4 to a guard tower to create a distraction, or shooting a guard in the foot with a tranquiliser dart and letting him continue on his route until he drops on plain sight.

 

[Jawehawk]

The tranquiluiser is somewhat weird in Ground Zeroes. I couldn't figure it out entirely. Sometimes, I'd hit someone in the torso and see them react to the hit, but they'd never fall a sleep, unless I contiued to hit them in the torso. Other times, I just needed to give it a little time, and one shot to the body would be enough. Headshots of course would always do the trick. Perhaps it is the raincoat they wear in the GZ mission that makes them more resistant to the darts?

I love the way gravity affects the shot. Makes those close to 100m shots feel amazing

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I have noticed that, too, but only in long-range shots. I suspect that we're hitting them, but the dart doesn't have the force to penetrate the skin.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I'm just a bit apprehensive about missions that only take a few minutes - it brings back memories of GTA V where one of the missions was "buy clothes".

I get that not every mission can be two hours long - but the beauty of the Side Ops in GZ was that they felt like complete stories. "Classified Intel" was the only one that could be rushed through, and even then, you had to know exactly what you were doing, and you could only really rush it on a repeat play-through.

That's one of the two things I hope gets changed for TPP (the other being the clumsy weapon selection): time limits for ranks. You need to be quick to get an S-rank, but I like taking my time and finding creative solutions to progressing - like sticking C4 to a guard tower to create a distraction, or shooting a guard in the foot with a tranquiliser dart and letting him continue on his route until he drops on plain sight.

Again, I refer you to the excuse that it is all about how you tackle your missions in what order. In the African Jungle Gameplay video, the English commentary team expressly stated that returning to mother base is not a requirement for accepting new missions, in other words, you can take them right in the field.

Maybe that has something to do with the discrepancy?

EDIT: New Trailer Incoming...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I disagree; GZ hinted at the potential of the game. In other open-world games, you go to the mission marker, and everything stops while you do the mission. It doesn't start up again until you finish the mission. I suppose that's because the worlds are very passive and reactive - nothing that you do outside the missions has any real lasting effect. But in GZ, things that you do outside the immediate scope of the mission can impact upon the game world. I suspect Kojima will use that, changing the availability of missions depending upon the level of enemy activity in an area.

 

[Luminis]

But in GZ, things that you do outside the immediate scope of the mission can impact upon the game world. I suspect Kojima will use that, changing the availability of missions depending upon the level of enemy activity in an area.

Sounds plausible to me.

Now, I've not been playing GZ as much as some of you have, obviously, but given how much impacts our actions have on the game's world, I'd assume that some missions might become permanently unavailable throughout a playthrough, depending on how one went about playing the game. Like some sort of "mission tree" that opens up and branches out depending on what you've been doing. Immense replay value, in that case, too.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Sounds plausible to me.

Now, I've not been playing GZ as much as some of you have, obviously, but given how much impacts our actions have on the game's world, I'd assume that some missions might become permanently unavailable throughout a playthrough, depending on how one went about playing the game. Like some sort of "mission tree" that opens up and branches out depending on what you've been doing. Immense replay value, in that case, too.

Keep in mind that GZ was only there in the state that its in because Sony wanted a Metal Gear game at launch. The result is less than desirable.

Given that, what you said does contain a bit of truth as how you interact with certain characters may determine whether or not additional missions will be added to your playthrough. Quiet, for example, can either be a support buddy or a boss (as in an actual boss fight) depending on your bond level with the character. All of the gameplay examples that we have seen so far have been showing Snake with a high bond level with Quiet, never as a boss. This might suggest that what actually becomes Metal Gear canon in regards to The Phantom Pain is very much up in the air at this point.

 

[Luminis]

Keep in mind that GZ was only there in the state that its in because Sony wanted a Metal Gear game at launch. The result is less than desirable.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

I haven't familiarized myself as much with TPP, to be honest... But the thing with Quiet kinda goes well with my assumptions. 150 missions sounds like a whole lot, but it appears much more reasonable if that count includes variations of the same mission, changing depending on how you've been playing so far.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

FAR CRY 4 did that - at certain points, you were given a choice as to the best way forward. For example in one mission, you will either burn poppy fields or protect them depending on your choice. However, the only lasting impact it has is who speaks to you over the radio. The final choice dictates the ending, but even that is not set in stone.

I can't see Kojima doing variations of the same mission. It doesn't match up with his comments that players may not finish the game. Rather, I suspect that player actions will dictate mission availability - raise the alarm and you may not be able to start a mission until things calm down. If you leave the area and start a different mission in the meantime, then that first mission (and related ones) might become completely unavailable.

I would like to believe that all missions will be playable the first time through, rather than having variations, as that does not sound much like Kojima.

 

[Luminis]

I would like to believe that all missions will be playable the first time through, rather than having variations, as that does not sound much like Kojima.

True enough... Sounds more like something another certain Japanese game director who's name starts with a K would do.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I suppose its success depends on how well it is executed. FAR CRY 4 was a mixed bag, as although the missions were different, there wasn't much difference; in the poppy field mission, you're really either attacking or defending a base.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I am a bit hesitant in reporting this news, not because it would run afowl of the AUP, but rather of its source.

Inside the data files of the PC version of Ground Zeroes, that when decrypted, revealed a few location folders. One has a reasonable expectation that all of the locations listed, Cyprus, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Middle Africa, Mother Base, and lastly Old Mother Base.

We all know that Camp Omega is in Cuba, or rather the Guantanamo location, but the [not] surprising location is Cyprus. As we all know, Big Boss was taken after the destruction of Mother Base to a hospital under British control(as evidenced by the British flag on the wall), but what isn't known is the map beside the flag actually gave out the location of the hospital, which is in Cyprus, more specifically, the southern tip of the island.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That makes sense because a Union Jack flag can be seen on the wall when Snake wakes up in the "Not Your Kind Of People" trailer. The British have maintained a military base in Cyprus at Akrotiri for decades. And with Zero, a British national, naturally wanting to maintain control over Snake, Cyprus makes sense because it's out of the way.

Are we certain Snake went into a coma following the helicopter crash off Nicaragua? A lot of the trailers show the mass funeral for the MSF staff, and Snake being semi-conscious as he is taken into hospital (though that may be for dramatic effect). Cyprus would make further sense as a location if Snake was injured in Africa given its proximity and the way he is being treated by the same doctors when he arrives and when he wakes from the coma. Or did the gameplay demo from Africa show Snake with a prosthetic arm?

 

[Sanji Himura]

That makes sense because a Union Jack flag can be seen on the wall when Snake wakes up in the "Not Your Kind Of People" trailer. The British have maintained a military base in Cyprus at Akrotiri for decades. And with Zero, a British national, naturally wanting to maintain control over Snake, Cyprus makes sense because it's out of the way.

Are we certain Snake went into a coma following the helicopter crash off Nicaragua? A lot of the trailers show the mass funeral for the MSF staff, and Snake being semi-conscious as he is taken into hospital (though that may be for dramatic effect). Cyprus would make further sense as a location if Snake was injured in Africa given its proximity and the way he is being treated by the same doctors when he arrives and when he wakes from the coma. Or did the gameplay demo from Africa show Snake with a prosthetic arm?

Snake had a prosthetic arm in the Africa demo. The commentary team has stated that the arm can be upgraded like any other piece of equipment through the R&D Unit. The Afghanistan arm is the most basic whereas the one in Africa had a nasty secret for enemy patrol.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Right. I was under the impression that the vast majority of the game took place in Afghanistan. The series' experimentation with globe-trotting in GOTP arguably hurt it because it diverged from the basic premise of infiltrating an enemy installation. Once you left the area and started the next sequence, it was almost like a case of pressing the reset button.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The issue with GOTP wasn't it's experimentation with globe trotting. The issue comes when you combine that with a linear plot. By being so open world that you can physically travel from Africa to Afghanistan on foot and take actual in game days to do so, I think that Kojima has copied the fundamental basics to open world gaming and pushed the envelop to large that no game after this will dare attempt it has to be saying something.

Even Skyrim, when traveling from Skyrim to Morrowind, there was a plot device used to move from map to map. Here, there is little to no interference if you wish to travel to another part of the world.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

you can physically travel from Africa to Afghanistan on foot and take actual in game days to do so

Really? That's a distance of thousands of kilometres. And while I don't expect the game to be an accurate recreation of that distance, the most direct journey on foot would mean going through Iran, Iraq, Jordan and Israel just to get to the Egyptian border - and if it's in "middle Africa", then that would mean going to Kenya or Tanzania, which is probably twice as far. Kojima reckons TPP is two hundred times the size of GZ, but I don't think that would be enough to cover all of that.

EDIT: Also, I just found this - Kojima says that he is "putting the game together". So from the sounds of things, all of the individual elements are done (or nearly there) and now they're starting to assemble them:

http://gamingbolt.com/metal-gear-so...eives-new-screens-development-update-provided

I don't know too much about the process of game development, but I imagine that all they will have to do next is debug it and fine-tune it. One thorough test of the alpha build to find critical faults should tell them how much longer they need, and from that, they can set a release date.