MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

[prisonermonkeys]

It would be extremely difficult to do that.

 

[G.T.Ace]

So ...


Sadly, most likely a rebel missile shooting it down, I'm a bit pro Russian but this is obviously a big screw up from someone in the rebel side, HE rounds on those missiles would torn a military cargo plane to pieces (as it has) and those SAM launchers are heat based (so there is no IFF system on them to differentiate from friend or foe).

The missiles are heat seeking, the lock-on system is radar based. I don't have a 100% secure confirmation, but it was mentioned yesterday, that the Buk would pick-up a friend/foe signature.

 

[mister dog]

It would be extremely difficult to do that.

True, but they are already trying to cover it up it seems, dutch newspaper says they smuggled that BUK rocket launcher back across the border with Russia last night.

Link:

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/31544/Neerge...uk-raketsysteem-naar-Rusland-gesmokkeld.dhtml

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Of course they are going to try and get rid of the evidence - they just killed 300 people, and going by the transcript of the phone call, they had no idea what they shot down. They were clearly expecting to find a military transport, and were surprised to find Malaysian Airlines markings, to the point where they thought the plane was carrying spies and running a Malaysian Airlines livery as camouflage.

 

[Dennisch]

Well, this has come close to home.

My girlfriend just found out that 2 persons from her yoga class were on that plane.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Well, this has come close to home.

My girlfriend just found out that 2 persons from her yoga class were on that plane.

Damn, how's she holding up?

 

[Dennisch]

Damn, how's she holding up?

I will find out in a couple of minutes, she texted me about it. But my guess is that she will be quite gutted.

 

[SniperRed3]

It would be extremely difficult to do that.

Actually, it has happened before. Williams wrecked the black box on sennas car.

 

[Dennisch]

Actually, it has happened before. Williams wrecked the black box on sennas car.

*massive facepalm picture*

 

[Dennisch]

The rebels have promised there will be a cease fire from 11 this morning for 2-4 days.

 

[mister dog]

*massive facepalm picture*

They did receive it first and then handed it over to the authorities 'broken'... Anyway that's another discussion let's not get into eachothers hair for this one.

 

[SniperRed3]

I love the rough estimation of 2-4 days of ceasefire. I call one day before either side accuses each other of breaking it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Actually, it has happened before.

The separatists say they are in possession of eight of the twelve data recorders. Any attempt to tamper with them would be immediately obvious if someone else was able to get any of the other four.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well, this has come close to home.

My girlfriend just found out that 2 persons from her yoga class were on that plane.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[SniperRed3]

The separatists say they are in possession of eight of the twelve data recorders. Any attempt to tamper with them would be immediately obvious if someone else was able to get any of the other four.

Source please. There's only 2 black boxes on a plane.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Source please. There's only 2 black boxes on a plane.

The Associated Press, by way of CBS:

An assistant to the Ukrainian insurgency's military commander, Igor Girkin, told the Associated Press Friday on condition of anonymity that eight out of the plane's 12 recording devices had been located. He did not elaborate, and it wasn't clear what recording equipment, beyond the mandated flight recorders, were on the aircraft.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-recording-devices-pro-russia-ukraine-rebels/

 

[TenEightyOne]

I still don't see why it was in the wrong corridor... when you overlay the "terminated" flight path with those from recent days and weeks it's identical.

Actually, it has happened before. Williams wrecked the black box on sennas car.

Dude, with respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. Hopefully you were just being silly by pretending that the two devices are in any way related.

 

[SniperRed3]

There is 2 black boxes, one for the flight data and another for the cockpit voice recorder. By my knowledge, there are 12 parameters measured by the flight data box. So they have probably found the recording equipment which is pointless. The twelve parameters measurer time, altitude, airspeed, vertical acceleration, heading,time of each radio transmission either to or from air traffic control, pitch attitude, roll attitude, longitudinal acceleration, control column or pitch control surface position and the thrust of each engine. Also, there is a possibility that the plane could have a quick access recorder, which can be read by special hardware connected to an ordinary computer.
In order to tamper with the black boxes they would have to use specialist equipment which the DNR wouldn't have access to or any idea how they are used.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Like many other people, I'm deeply upset by this.

But what really makes me angry is the reaction from some world leaders. When did it become okay to accuse a sovereign nation of tacitly supporting an act of terrorism without any physical evidence?

We should be taking the time to come to terms with what has happened, and to grieve. Not making wild and unsubstantiated accusations. It disgusts me that our Prime Minister is doing this.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is 2 black boxes, one for the flight data and another for the cockpit voice recorder.

Considering that you tried to draw a parallel between this and Senna's death, I'm disinclined to pay much attention to this. Especially considering that a) the Ukrainian authorities are in agreement that there are multiple recorders aboard MH17, and b) Malaysian Airlines responded to criticism over MH370 by installing multiple recorders on their flights.

 

[Denur]

It turns out that a colleague from our plant was on that plane. I didn't know him though.

 

[SniperRed3]

There are two black boxes on a plane. Even in the circumstances that rebels do have them, they are unreadable. They have to be sent to a facility for decoding the data. It would take weeks for even a highly skilled team of specialists to find out. For the cockpit voice recorder it first has to be decoded, then sent to a panel of experts, they then makes a transcript of the recording.

 

[Sanji Himura]

My fault, I meant registration, not callsign. The plane that crashed was 9M-MRD. The one in that picture is 9M-MRC.

That isn't exactly true. They are both Boeing 777-200s, and both planes were at two separate parts of the world. The 9M-MRC was in Malaysia was grounded most of yesterday (if my math is right), where as the 9M-MRD was in Amsterdam. Facebook posts are generally accurate if you post images directly from your phone in giving your location, and the terminal is the best place to see your plane before you board it.

 

[Rage Racer]

those SAM launchers are heat based (so there is no IFF system on them to differentiate from friend or foe).

The missiles are heat seeking, the lock-on system is radar based. I don't have a 100% secure confirmation, but it was mentioned yesterday, that the Buk would pick-up a friend/foe signature.

Actually, the 9M38 missile has a semi-active guidance system. It seeks a radar signal (from the system's ground radar) reflected from the target. The radar does receive friend-or-foe signals, I guess. But it could have not been recognised by the Buk's radar.

 

[SniperRed3]

In my opinion the men operating the Buk were not trained in recognizing radar signatures. They saw a big blip and fired at it, presuming it must have been a cargo plane.

 

[Sanji Himura]

There are two black boxes on a plane. Even in the circumstances that rebels do have them, they are unreadable. They have to be sent to a facility for decoding the data. It would take weeks for even a highly skilled team of specialists to find out. For the cockpit voice recorder it first has to be decoded, then sent to a panel of experts, they then makes a transcript of the recording.

Even if that is true, there are still systems in place to ensure data safety in the event of catastrophic failure or tampering of any kind happens to the black boxes. The rebels may have gotten the two main systems, but they sure as heck didn't get the back ups, and that is what is in dispute right now. Did the rebels get the complete back ups? The answer is a resounding no.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The men operating the Buk were not trained in recognizing radar signatures. They saw a big blip and fired at it, presuming it must have been a cargo plane.

Source, please. That's a pretty bold claim to make.

 

[Robin]

New reporting one Australian family has lost family members on both MH370 and MH17, how terrible and how unlucky.

 

[NT_03]

Anyhow.. Rest In Peace to the three Filipino-Dutch passengers.. The passengers were the same family. One mom, and two kids. One boy, and one girl.

 

[Rage Racer]

I love how Ukraine wanted to get closer to Europe and now "Pro-Russian fighters" are taking over Ukraine

Ukraine wanted to become a part of Europe, but it became a mix of Yugoslavia and Somalia.