MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

  • Thread starter Dennisch
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I only found out about this this morning when a work colleague told me, I was astonished, shocked, astounded, sickened, you name it. To think someone might have shot down a civilian flight intentionally is beyond words.

A full international and independent inquiry is needed, and because it is a war zone a lot of intelligence agencies would have been monitoring the area so hopefully they can get to the bottom of it fairly quickly.
 
At least this time it was an army of rebels, but let's not forget that this has happened in the past, an act committed by the US army itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Of course the above is only added for context into this whole situation. This is one of the greatest disasters in recent history and an unspeakable act of "just because we can" violence.
 
I wouldn't give any of these cretins the benefit of the doubt, but there is a very strong chance that this was an accident i.e. they were not targeting a civilian plane, but managed to hit one thinking it was an enemy military plane. I think that much is pretty clear - provided the evidence so far is genuine and not completely fabricated (the latter being pretty unlikely).
 
NLxAROSA
A guy from my local gym was also onboard. He was emigrating to start a new life over there...A lot of people in NL seem to have people close or close by that are affected by this. Not surprisingly since the amount of NL passengers on board was at least 189.
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Yes, it is a sad number. One colleague among the dead with his family (wife and 6y/o child). And another colleague lost his cousin and wife (or rather his father's, I don't know how to call that relationship).
 
Coxis
At least this time it was an army of rebels, but let's not forget that this has happened in the past, an act committed by the US army itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Of course the above is only added for context into this whole situation. This is one of the greatest disasters in recent history and an unspeakable act of "just because we can" violence.
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Russia has as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 Ironically, Iran Air Flight 655 happened after (President) Reagan called out the Soviet Union for shooting down KAL 007, so it made the US really look bad.

The Pentagon (US Department of Defense HQ) says that they do not know who fired the missile or what the intentions of those who fired said missile. This is obviously going off of the belief that an AA missile (most likely believed to be a Buk) shot down the plane.
 
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The Pentagon just don't want to come out and say it. We [The US] use the technology everyday to spy on everyone else in the world, how hard would it be to insert the correct tape that is needed and cue it up?
 
They know, we all know, but the US doesn't care. The CIA verified the phone recording and then a few more sanctions on Eussia and that's it.
 
I haven't seen any evidence tying Putin to the missile attack on MH17, but the evidence against the pro-Russian rebels is pretty damning already.

The first OSCE investigators to arrive at the scene had to retreat earlier when pro-Russian rebels fired warning shots at them, and blocked access to the site, despite assurances that a ceasefire would be observed to allow investigators access. (Source) Furthermore, video and photo evidence has emerged of advanced (i.e. Russian-supplied) rocket launchers being moved in the area, including unverified footage of a BUK missile system (minus two rockets) being carried away on the back of a lorry out of the region, after the incident.
 

OfficerBarbrady2-300x194.jpg
 
There is evidence of the rebels securing a BUK on twitter. I just hope that they haven't contaminated the crime scene or removed anything.
 
I think it is somewhat clear. Yes, not confirmed and all speculation on my part, nevertheless I think it went like this. Oversimplified of course.

Russia is delighted with the problems within Ukraine. The more eastern a territory within Ukraine is, the more pro-Russian people are. So, Russia is training and giving weapons to these so-called rebels to further their agenda (another annexation? who knows). Russia provided these surface to air missiles to the rebels and now its biting them in the ass because the rebels mistook the plane to be military. The missile launcher is returned to Russia, destroyed. Blame bounces all over the place.

I don't think it'll cause a war but it may be the cause for Russia to stop stirring things up. I think it's clear that neither Ukraine, Russia or the rebels intended to do this as it provides no benefit, quite the opposite in fact. It was a mistake. A big chain of them.
 
Touring Mars
Furthermore, video and photo evidence has emerged of advanced (i.e. Russian-supplied) rocket launchers
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Why do they have to be "Russian-supplied" if they're "advanced"?
G.T.Ace
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The billboard has a commercial of a car showroom on Dnipropetrovska street, 34.
The address of this spot is: Krasnoarmeysk, Gorky street, 49.
Krasnoarmeysk is under control of Ukrainian Armed Forces since 11th of May.

(Should check out carefully though)
 
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Rage Racer
Why do they have to be "Russian-supplied" if they're "advanced"?
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Various sources have claimed that the only plausible source of such advanced missile launching capability for the rebels is from Russia - furthermore, some analysts claim that rebel groups would likely be unable to operate these systems effectively without Russian military training or support, for which there is already some evidence.

The billboard has a commercial of a car showroom on Dnipropetrovska street, 34.
The address of this spot is: Krasnoarmeysk, Gorky street, 49.
Krasnoarmeysk is under control of Ukrainian Armed Forces since 11th of May.

(Should check out carefully though)
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Yeh, I don't know how you can possibly know who is in control of that exact spot from that video alone. It remains possible that the Ukrainian forces are covering something up, but in the meantime, it looks pretty bad for the pro-Russian rebels, especially since they are blocking access to the crash site.
 
Rage Racer
The fragmentation damages are possible to have been caused by an air-to-air missile, not ground-to-air...
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Nope. There are all kinds of SAM's that explode nearby their target instead of colliding directly with it.
 
Touring Mars
Various sources have claimed that the only plausible source of such advanced missile launching capability for the rebels is from Russia - furthermore, some analysts claim that rebel groups would likely be unable to operate these systems effectively without Russian military training or support, for which there is already some evidence.
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Don't forget, they also may have some former Ukrainian PVO (air defence) officers who defected to DPR.

but in the meantime, it looks pretty bad for the pro-Russian rebels, especially since they are blocking access to the crash site.
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I have some info that they have allowed OSCE and IKAO to the site.

Zenith
Nope. There are all kinds of SAM's that explode nearby their target instead of colliding directly with it.
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Fair enough... I also heard there's something to do with warhead types, but... it's too hard to investigate from a couch :D
 
mister dog
I wonder if they are gonna try and tamper with those black boxes, try and blame it on the Ukrainians. Wouldn't surprise me to be honest.
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I was thinking that yesterday, I'm wondering what's going to happen........

AnthonyD1993
Russia has as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 Ironically, Iran Air Flight 655 happened after (President) Reagan called out the Soviet Union for shooting down KAL 007, so it made the US really look bad.

The Pentagon (US Department of Defense HQ) says that they do not know who fired the missile or what the intentions of those who fired said missile. This is obviously going off of the belief that an AA missile (most likely believed to be a Buk) shot down the plane.
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I remember doing a report on this once in a class (Iran Air flight), cant remember too many details but money got paid out by USA to compensate the victims, I'm wondering how these yahoo separatists are going to shell out the $$$. Maybe the Russians will end up paying for it (probably without taking any blame.)
 
If Putin is smart now; he will cut off all contacts with the culprits and try and wash his hands in innocence.
 
Guessing this May have been bought up already but a post from a Dutch individual who died on the MH17 flight made a post on his Facebook before boarding with a dark sense of humour saying "If it disappears, this is what it looks like".

How tragic and sickening that little did he know his prophecy was to become true.....
 
Rage Racer
Don't forget, they also may have some former Ukrainian PVO (air defence) officers who defected to DPR.
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True, there were reports that some Ukrainian bases had been taken by rebel forces. While there is speculation that rebels may be being armed by Russia, that possibility isn't the only plausible way the rebels might have got their hands on this type of weapon.
 
Touring Mars
I wouldn't give any of these cretins the benefit of the doubt, but there is a very strong chance that this was an accident i.e. they were not targeting a civilian plane, but managed to hit one thinking it was an enemy military plane. I think that much is pretty clear - provided the evidence so far is genuine and not completely fabricated (the latter being pretty unlikely).
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I agree. The separatists have nothing to gain by doing it deliberately.
 
@Rage Racer I'm pretty sure from the wreckage shots so far that there was an explosion outside the plane slightly above and to the right, somewhere between the starboard wing root and starboard edge of the rear pressure bulkhead, this damage looks both aerial (no dirt to be seen) and consistent with that kind of scenario. Certainly the most forcibly separated section seems to the empannage tail, there are some photos of the rearmost starboard passenger door that makes it look as if the main spheric percussion may have focused there just in front of there.

10462790_669364226478291_3456776413116785688_n.jpg
 

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