MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The ACARS was turned off before the final "all right, goodnight" was given, someone had to do this. Whoever's voice is on the recording is already taken control as a hostile. Odds are it's the pilot or co-pilot until otherwise proven(IMO).

So disregard the freescale semiconductor specialist that had knowledge of avionics...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If to the north, the flight path will have been over the Tibetan Plateau and Xinjiang region of China. This implies the plane will have appeared on Chinese military radars, and therefore China, by holding its peace, is complicit in the commandeering of the aircraft.

Only if the Chinese knew it was MH370 when they made contact with it. Assuming they made contact at all - Tibet and Xinjiang are as large as they are deserted. Plus, in order to get to Tibet or Xinjiang, MH370 would have to fly within range of military radar in Thailand, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India and Nepal. None of them picked it up, and you are not accusing them of holding their peace.

On top of that, the plane would have had enough fuel to circle the Himalayas and approach Xinjiang from the west. I don't know how you can expect the Chinese to spot a plane they had no reason to look for coming at them from a direction that they would not have been looking in even if they were searching for it.

 

[Dotini]

Only if the Chinese knew it was MH370 when they made contact with it. Assuming they made contact at all - Tibet and Xinjiang are as large as they are deserted. Plus, in order to get to Tibet or Xinjiang, MH370 would have to fly within range of military radar in Thailand, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India and Nepal. None of them picked it up, and you are not accusing them of holding their peace.

It is reported on CNN that the radar capabilities of these developing nations is perhaps overestimated. They say that even India operates its military radar only on a part-time, as-needed basis. Obviously, they got through Malaysian military radar, which picked up the blips seen only later upon review of the recordings.

 

[Jordan]

Here's one problem with the plan... why not just take a cargo plane? Hmmm...

That's the problem I have with the theory of the plane being hijacked for later use. Anyone with the resources to pull this off could accomplish whatever nefarious thing they wanted to do by simply chartering their own aircraft.

I think it seems more likely that MH370 had something or someone of very high value on board, and hijacking the plane was the easiest way to get it/them. If that's the case, I just hope they left the rest of the passengers alone.

 

[Furinkazen]

That's the problem I have with the theory of the plane being hijacked for later use. Anyone with the resources to pull this off could accomplish whatever nefarious thing they wanted to do by simply chartering their own aircraft.

I think it seems more likely that MH370 had something or someone of very high value on board, and hijacking the plane was the easiest way to get it/them. If that's the case, I just hope they left the rest of the passengers alone.

If it did make it somewhere else, how can you keep 230 people quiet?

 

[Omnis]

If it did make it somewhere else, how can you keep 230 people quiet?

Easy. Kill them.

 

[Furinkazen]

Easy. Kill them.

So why go the effort of hijacking a fully laden flight which runs with it much more risk of things getting out of hand? If they picked a smaller flight with say 50 on board, it would be far more inconspicuous? I mean this is a darn jetliner, not a private plane...

 

[adam46]

Despite the tragedy that may have taken place here, I can't help but find this all very interesting. It's like observing an extremely well-written movie, but in real time.

 

[Furinkazen]

Despite the tragedy that may have taken place here, I can't help but find this all very interesting. It's like being in an extremely well-written movie, but in real time.

The scary thing is it isn't a work of fiction.

 

[adam46]

The scary thing is it isn't a work of fiction.

Quite, that's why I find it hard to admit that. The fact that things that seemed impossible to me at the beginning of March now appear to have happened with ease... It really does worry me.

 

[Famine]

If it did make it somewhere else, how can you keep 230 people quiet?

Xinjiang is famous for two things. The first is Chinese nuclear tests - every single one of the 45 nuclear tests China has carried out has been at Lop Nur in Xinjiang.

The reason for this is the second thing - it's very, very empty. If Xinjiang was a country, it'd be in the top 30 of least densely populated places and if you removed the 7 cities with populations over a million from consideration, it'd be in the top three.

So if you have a heavily militarised region of otherwise utter emptiness, it takes very little imagination to conceive of the capability to build a runway that can receive a 777 (and even allow it to take off again, should that be necessary for some reason) and a detention facility for 240 people that no-one would ever, ever know about.

Sure, killing all the people who are superfluous to the operation would be easier than detaining them all, but everyone has some kind of innate value and it would be most unlike Chinese Intelligence to kill them summarily without determining what that is. In fact Xinjiang is also a little bit famous for huge potash resources, so it's even easier to put them down in mines as forced labour.

Edit: Heh, that last line is literally a plotline from 24 Day 4, where Cheng Zhi tells Howard Bern he'll be taken to China, transported to a maximum security forced labour camp in Xinjiang on the border with Siberia and no-one will be notified - with no chance of rescue or escape. Thought it rang a bell.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It is reported on CNN that the radar capabilities of these developing nations is perhaps overestimated. They say that even India operates its military radar only on a part-time, as-needed basis. Obviously, they got through Malaysian military radar, which picked up the blips seen only later upon review of the recordings.

That doesn't make the Chinese complicit in the hijacking.

 

[photonrider]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 -

I wrote this:

We have had so many new pieces of the puzzle added now - whether actual pieces that belong to this picture, or pieces that are only things we would like to see. There is no real point theorising, though trying to reconstruct possiblities of what could have happened may be possible: for instance the fact that the plane had been intact and flown after the transponders were shut down. That was more than a possibility because of the various data that came in, and has turned out to be evidence that is taken as fact.

So now we have two bits of the puzzle on either side of Malaysia - on one side a fireball, a location of a possible dogfight, phantom debris, and an impact on the ocean floor that very well could be 650,000 lbs travelling at 500 MPH into 300 feet of water - a lot of kinetic energy. Which means there is a plane down in the South China Seas.

On the other side - a series of blips and transmissions that show the activity of a plane heading towards that proverbial jungle strip that was spoken about - Andamans, Cocos . . . a string of them in the area.

We await the news.

And this followed:

@photonrider with a little math and other pieces the seismic wave could be debunked (since I did do that)

Did you factor in ideograms?

Is there one in particular I should have?

Probably the one for 'inscrutable'.

I fail to see the point of this little bit of wordplay, apart from touting your math skills, and the fact you aren't familiar with the inscrutable Chinese.

Nowhere in the quote you quoted spoke about a seismic wave - except a kinetic impact that should have surfaced if the plane had actually landed there to create (phantom) debris.

Pardon my prose. If you can't understand what I mean, ask directly. No need to paraphrase my thoughts. Thank you again for your attention.

We're already accepted that a large commercial airliner with passengers has disappeared without a trace. We've already discussed that it may have made a considerable change of course, and may have landed somewhere. We know there are a lot of 'interesting' parties in the area with a whole bunch of possible motives.

👍

About sums it up, Exige. We're still always after the fact.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 -

I wrote this:



And this followed:











I fail to see the point of this little bit of wordplay, apart from touting your math skills, and the fact you aren't familiar with the inscrutable Chinese.

Nowhere in the quote you quoted spoke about a seismic wave - except a kinetic impact that should have surfaced if the plane had actually landed there to create (phantom) debris.

Pardon my prose. If you can't understand what I mean, ask directly. No need to paraphrase my thoughts. Thank you again for your attention.




👍

About sums it up, Exige. We're still always after the fact.

Yes but rather than trying to sound prim and proper and with unnecessary verbiage, that really doesn't get to the meaning of what is going on, you keep on? Also not sure how many people in your day to day are familiar with inscrutable Chinese, sorry if I'm not?

Also the kinetic impact hit is what brought up the return of the seismic wave activity and why I replied the way I did since such energy is attributed to seismic waves. So with that bit of knowledge, as I said I replied the way I did. I understand your prose fine but rather you seem to want to say just enough rather than a full thought at what you trying to get at, which lead to "word play". Like everyone else here we're giving ideas of what happened or what is most likely easy to dismiss, the seismic wave theory is quite easy to extinguish.


Anyways back to general conversation, with the amount of time that has passed I'd agree with @TenEightyOne and @Keef among others that this plane was moved around on the ground. Yet also keeping in mind the allotted time (a week now), what if this plane has been outfitted with some type of device?

 

[playnthru]

So disregard the freescale semiconductor specialist that had knowledge of avionics...

If you say so...? Honestly I'm not sure what you mean.
--


I'm only saying what's being reported on CNN. The latest information is that the ACARS was shut off prior to the last transmission, indicating the pilot or co-pilot being involved.


I think the plane was hijacked and landed somewhere. I've heard this 'plan' was actually a plan from the US/CIA playbook of cold war times (crazy I know). It was never used during the cold war, but it was in our 'bag of tricks' if needed. I heard that on CNN too so(IDK)....?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If you say so...? Honestly I'm not sure what you mean.
--


I'm only saying what's being reported on CNN. The latest information is that the ACARS was shut off prior to the last transmission, indicating the pilot or co-pilot being involved.


I think the plane was hijacked and landed somewhere. I've heard this 'plan' was actually a plan from the US/CIA playbook of cold war times (crazy I know). It was never used during the cold war, but it was in our 'bag of tricks' if needed. I heard that on CNN too so(IDK)....?

You probably shouldn't just rely on CNN since they're pretty horrible with their coverage and tend to create a lot of filler or repeat themselves since as i said...they are horrid with coverage. What I was saying is that there are a group of people who were for Freescale semi-conductors a company based in N. America, these guys were supposedly specialist with knowledge in avionics electronics and it was posted in here, they are also trained in other things that Freescale works on which also has to do with aviation communications and so on.

The point is that the pilots are possibly not the only group capable on this plane of shutting down the ACARS, also the timing between sign off and ACARS failure is a decent gap of time so...

What's crazy about that? The CIA also has a playbook plan during the cold war era under the Kennedy admin. to create a terrorist attacks which is what I think you're talking about, that is called Operation Northwoods. There are tons of other crazy things our Gov't has in act now and plans never used that are just as crazy, should read up on it.

 

[playnthru]

Oh I see! Your comment makes sense to me now.👍

No..I don't disregard the 'Freescale' types at all. It just seems rational to rule out the pilots first. Until they are ruled out,they are the logical conclusion (IMO).

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think it seems more likely that MH370 had something or someone of very high value on board, and hijacking the plane was the easiest way to get it/them. If that's the case, I just hope they left the rest of the passengers alone.

Exactly, many ways to acquire a plane (and then disguise it in the same way) that are a lot less complicated.

I think that if the plane itself was to be used in an attack it would have already been completed. That leads me to think that something in that particular plane was of interest or that the attack was actually foiled by passengers or crew or that the aircraft was destroyed en-route as a result of the 'hijackers' interfering with it or trying to place explosives.

In my current employment I know that one of the hardest data-risks to mitigate against is "co-erced retrieval". The sum value of the information that could be accessed by the Freescale employees is incredible, in theory it could be the entire company's knowledge-base. That act would need to have completed quickly as the company, once over the initial shock, are likely to have acted to reduce/remove remote access, unless the authorities have asked them to leave a login available. Any number of the passengers could have had access to commericially/militarily/scientifically-valuable information I guess... and I'm starting to be more and more sure that the plane's contents were of more interest than the plane.

That leaves the hope that the passengers have been kept alive, even if its just for their value as 'barter' if hostile authorities find the hijackers' location. As more time goes on without contact, ransom demands or any other dialogue that becomes a fainter hope unfortunately, the hijackers will be looking to complete their task and move on. For them the 'operation' may have been completed days ago

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just reading the "cyber-hijack" theories that today's British rags are running... I don't buy that.

It's do-able if you have a system on the plane that can (receive, interpret, implement, return, transmit) control data and visual data (heavy!).

The 777 does not have this by default, unsurprisingly, but you could fit one... providing you were able to build, test and deploy such a unit for an aircraft as complex as a heavy airliner. The pilots would have access to do this during a flight, if you stretch credibility far enough. But then they have access to the plane in flight, so what would be the point?

The pilot's home flight-sim rig seems to be getting more interest, I don't see the significance. "Pilot Was Flight Geek!", not really news

 

[jimipitbull]

The pilot's home flight-sim rig seems to be getting more interest, I don't see the significance. "Pilot Was Flight Geek!", not really news

Airliner pilots have access to/are trained on multi million dollar simulators, and spend a lot of time flying real planes. I don't think too many would bother creating such a setup at home. The last thing you want to do when you get home from work is simulate more work.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Airliner pilots have access to/are trained on multi million dollar simulators, and spend a lot of time flying real planes. I don't think too many would bother creating such a setup at home. The last thing you want to do when you get home from work is simulate more work.

I respectfully disagree, I can count on the number of one hand the number of pilots that I know who don't have FS of one kind or another at home. Those who do would take several hands to count. Some have a set up of nearly that magnitude (although he doesn't actually have anywhere near as much as he could have).

I haven't spent the amount on my setup that this pilot did on his, but again... that's not an unusual setup for any hardcore sim fan. Did it occur to you that some people's love of flying comes from playing with flight sims, not the other way around?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Airliner pilots have access to/are trained on multi million dollar simulators, and spend a lot of time flying real planes. I don't think too many would bother creating such a setup at home. The last thing you want to do when you get home from work is simulate more work.

Not necessarily if that was the way he stayed sharp, then it is very plausible. Look at how any race car drivers have at home full on setups and then use them after a race weekend to prepare for the next track. Also as incompetent as this group is from Malaysia they probably didn't give their pilots tons of time to use the work simulator. Further more, he was also an instructor and helped people and thus a setup like this would be even more important. I have CAD systems on my personal computer even after I spend all day on them working, you may not want to do work at home on your free time but sometimes you have to or you love work that much you want to. Not sure what you do but perhaps it's a job that you don't care for and you just don't see or understand how others can do this.

 

[jimipitbull]

Not necessarily if that was the way he stayed sharp, then it is very plausible. Look at how any race car drivers have at home full on setups and then use them after a race weekend to prepare for the next track. Also as incompetent as this group is from Malaysia they probably didn't give their pilots tons of time to use the work simulator. Further more, he was also an instructor and helped people and thus a setup like this would be even more important. I have CAD systems on my personal computer even after I spend all day on them working, you may not want to do work at home on your free time but sometimes you have to or you love work that much you want to. Not sure what you do but perhaps it's a job that you don't care for and you just don't see or understand how others can do this.

I worked for an airline for 3 years doing facility management. Organising repairs and maintenance to a domestic and international airport precinct - terminal, maintenance hangars and a simulator centre containing 5 sims - 2 owned by the airline, 3 owned by Boeing.

I don't believe an airline pilot is really comparable to racing car driver, just as flight simulators are not comparable to CAD systems.

An instructor for a major international airline would basically have unlimited access to a multi million dollar simulator. Most of his instructing would be done inside a simulator.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I worked for an airline for 3 years doing facility management. Organising repairs and maintenance to a domestic and international airport precinct - terminal, maintenance hangars and a simulator centre containing 5 sims - 2 owned by the airline, 3 owned by Boeing.

I don't believe an airline pilot is really comparable to racing car driver, just as flight simulators are not comparable to CAD systems.

The idea isn't about what is related to what, I do engineering as a choice of study and career because I enjoy engineering and as such I go home and tinker around on CAD even if I spent all day doing it. The same concept could be said here for this pilot who seemed quite infatuated by his set up. If you can't understand that then not sure what to tell you. That great that you've worked with an Airliner and kudos to you, but one doesn't always operate as the other and the other and so on, unless there is some international guideline you can show that validates your thoughts.

An instructor for a major international airline would basically have unlimited access to a multi million dollar simulator. Most of his instructing would be done inside a simulator.

Are you sure that Malaysia's works like that? Also even if it did it still isn't suspicious and the underpinning answer you are still working with is "who wants to go home and do what they do for a living" paraphrasing obviously. Also care to answer the pilots in here or do you think I'm the easier to challenge?

 

[jimipitbull]

Are you sure that Malaysia's works like that? Also even if it did it still isn't suspicious and the underpinning answer you are still working with is "who wants to go home and do what they do for a living" paraphrasing obviously. Also care to answer the pilots in here or do you think I'm the easier to challenge?

If someone quotes me and asks a question, or poses an opinion I disagree with, I will usually respond. Not sure about this challenge you speak of, but it certainly explains the apparent competitiveness of your posts.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If someone quotes me and asks a question, or poses an opinion I disagree with, I will usually respond. Not sure about this challenge you speak of, but it certainly explains the apparent competitiveness of your posts.

That's strange because another person disagreed and you decided only to go after me...that's the only explanation I have cause this isn't a competition. I'd rather see you address all than cherry pick, also there is more to my post than what you decided to look at. Care to address that as well? Take your time the race is on and I'm doing work too so I'll be around for a while.

 

[jimipitbull]

That's strange because another person disagreed and you decided only to go after me...that's the only explanation I have cause this isn't a competition. I'd rather see you address all than cherry pick, also there is more to my post than what you decided to look at. Care to address that as well? Take your time the race is on and I'm doing work too so I'll be around for a while.

TenEightyOne respectfully disagreed, where as you rattled on about unrelated systems and questioned whether I liked my job or not.

Play the victim if you want, but it's probably your posting style that encourages such responses.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

TenEightyOne respectfully disagreed, where as you rattled on about unrelated systems and questioned whether I liked my job or not.

Play the victim if you want, but it's probably your posting style that encourages such responses.

So because I didn't say it the way he did that's why? I'm not playing victim at all I welcome your responses and it obvious when I invited you to continue. Not sure how my responses have some play on this, tone in conveyed personally not the other way around, you're reading it that way.

Once again I adequately explained the relation, if you still don't understand I would ask for you to read it again. I did explain it in a very similar manner to @TenEightyOne and yet somehow my explanation is bizarre? Also I didn't just question if you like your job or not, and it's a very realistic question for the topic at hand. If the pilot enjoyed his job then it isn't a far fetched ideal to think he'd have a simulator set up to keep doing what he loves on his down time.

Finally I've also partially said what I've said in the past post because you seem to want to have this back and forth from what would be ongoing bumping of heads in the GT6 subforum.

 

[disinfected]

Regardless of the outcome or your personal theories on what happened, this is without a doubt one of the most interesting and intriguing stories of the past ten or so years.

 

[Keef]

One thing that's bugging me about a map on the Beeb... it shows an orange line showing the "potential position from last-known satellite data". But if that's satellite data then why isn't it an x/y position rather than simply a range?

Because it was only caught by one satellite. It wasn't triangulated. And the plane only has enough fuel to get so far, so we have a distance from the satellite, the radius, and potential flight distance based on fuel which gives us the arc along the radius.

As a thought-experiment: How do you land a Boeing 777 without anyone noticing?

Once you're out of a developed-world radar environment it's easy. Getting out of that environment is the hard part. I believe these pilots have accomplished something that's never been tried before because the system has been designed largely in part due to mistakes of the past.