MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

[TenEightyOne]

@photonrider , that news was given yesterday. Given what you also observe about the news coverage of the relatives I wonder if you actually need to find a better international news channel

 

[Grayfox]

$5,500 compo?

That is nothing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

$5,500 compo?

That is nothing.

I haven't seen that figure but surely that must only be temporary expenses? JAL settled over 1m USD iirc without admitting liability, I should expect that the families of those on board this flight could ultimately expect something similar.


EDIT: This from the Beeb:

Some more details from the media briefing by Malaysia's acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein. He says there was "evidence of a partial handshake between the aircraft and ground station at 00:19 UTC".

"At this time this transmission is not understood and is subject to further ongoing work.

"No response was received from the aircraft at 01:15 UTC, when the ground earth station sent the next log on/log off message. This indicates that the aircraft was no longer logged on to the network. Therefore, sometime between 00:11 UTC and 01:15 UTC the aircraft was no longer able to communicate with the ground station. This is consistent with the maximum endurance of the aircraft."

 

[BobK]

What are you seeing to indicate the opposite of them being 'ignored'? A nicely sliced byte that satisfies a TV producer's idea of grief histrionics by a single lady played over and over as media exposure is not really focus on the tangibles of the real repercussions behind this loss.

I'll let @TenEightyOne answer this one for me:

@photonrider , that news was given yesterday. Given what you also observe about the news coverage of the relatives I wonder if you actually need to find a better international news channel

I'm afraid that reading it as a 'wave of suicides' being 'forecasted' may be a matter of conditioning; no such concept was postulated - nor was there such a wording.

Then just what did you mean when you said

There are many lives going to be lost from this section of people due to stress, illness, suicide, financial despair, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc..........
Maybe more than was possibly lost already on MH370.

I don't see how one can contract a life-threatening illness from this, nor is financial despair fatal unless you leap out a window or something, etc, etc.... so how else is one supposed to interpret "lives going to be lost"?

Quite understandable if one had the empathy of a hyena - 'Deal with it, I have to eat your kids'.

Nice way to demonize someone who disagrees with you. I can just hear you sneering "Facts? We don't need no steenking facts." See how that works?

In fact if one were to look at it from the visionary viewpoint of A Course in Miracles - then we are here to learn forgiveness and nothing more. Acceptance of all is a given.
Same if we were to believe in the Maya of Buddhism.
In fact if we were nothing else but soulless 'New Brights' - who accept as the only meaningful concept (ironic) that everything is meaningless, yes, it would be easy to shrug and 'carry on'.
However the people we are dealing with here are a whole different culture to any of the above.

So what is your point here? Do you even have one? Is this in any way, shape or form relevant to anything I've said?

A drill sergeant barking at them to get on with it may not be appropriate counselling.

You're right. So don't bark at them. And don't imply that I am, either.

 

[unitedstomper]

$5,500 compo?

That is nothing.

It's not compo if listen to the news you will no it's to cover expenses ie some family's want to go out to perth according to the news.

 

[photonrider]

@photonrider , that news was given yesterday. Given what you also observe about the news coverage of the relatives I wonder if you actually need to find a better international news channel

It wasn't the 'official confirmation' (as I noted) to the general public until then. The text msg was to family.
I have access to whatever news channels the world's media offers; no need to comment on my plugged-in status.

Then just what did you mean when you said ...... (refer to para in question)

I don't see how one can contract a life-threatening illness from this, nor is financial despair fatal unless you leap out a window or something, etc, etc.... so how else is one supposed to interpret "lives going to be lost"?

Many related lives can be lost via this incident fueled by motives that could vary from anger to outright insanity. In fact if there was only one suicide from this but the suicide involved another plane and a larger quantity of people, the equation is blown out of the water.
But there are many other factors that the families of these victims would have to live with that will make their lives a living death, from mental and physical health issues to spiritual and financial pressures that they will have to deal with - alone. Unless they get help.

Nice way to demonize someone who disagrees with you. I can just hear you sneering "Facts? We don't need no steenking facts." See how that works?

Demonize comes from your own mind - I envisualised a number of logical scenarios that would support your position; in fact I was explaining and defending your position with examples.

In your own case, you have already self-confessed the depth of your empathy:

Basically, for whatever reason empaths are very aware of the emotional state of people around them. They very rarely offend people, and if they do they are deeply sorry because they understand more then others how much they hurt them.

So, are you an empath?

Nope.

So what is your point here? Do you even have one?

Yes. That the families of the victims should be closely looked at.
If you go back to the original post that you had an issue with and read it right through as a complete idea, you will get the point.
By, yourself, focusing on the situation (Thank you ) I was forced to expand a little on scenarios that tell us why we should focus on these people, not just with media bytes, but with real physical help.
I believe, since we last talked about it, that many moves have been made from all concerned to give these people the appropriate care, and that actual steps are taken now to address that situation.

_________________________________________________________

Further comment:

I have heard a lot about turning these pilots (either one, the other, or both) into villains.
This goes against statistics.

There is a much bigger possibility that they were heroes, fighting for the lives of their crew, their passengers, and their own.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It wasn't the 'official confirmation' (as I noted) to the general public until then. The text msg was to family.
I have access to whatever news channels the world's media offers; no need to comment on my plugged-in status.

I beg to differ, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers watching the Malaysian Prime Minister's press conference about 10 hours before, but let us move gaily on

As for the coverage of the families, the news in the UK and Europe has been full of passenger lists, biopics, stories about families waiting for news, 'warts and all' stuff about the daily awfulness of their wait. In your posts I got the impression that you were criticising coverage that showed the distraught-noisy-fainting-lady over and over, I've seen that too on US sites and wondered if that was the kind of limited coverage you were watching.

I stand corrected, I accept that you're now entirely up to speed and I look forward to your assessment of Kennedy's upcoming Dallas venture.

 

[BobK]

Many related lives can be lost via this incident fueled by motives that could vary from anger to outright insanity. In fact if there was only one suicide from this but the suicide involved another plane and a larger quantity of people, the equation is blown out of the water.
But there are many other factors that the families of these victims would have to live with that will make their lives a living death, from mental and physical health issues to spiritual and financial pressures that they will have to deal with - alone. Unless they get help.

You're still trying to make it sound like the death toll amongst the relatives etc due to this incident might be higher than the number of people lost in the actual incident. I would be very surprised if more than one or two will die as a direct result, in fact I'd be surprised if any did. Your possible scenario of a suicide involving another plane and even more people is pretty far-fetched. Enough so that it sounds more like fear-mongering than rational speculation.

In your own case, you have already self-confessed the depth of your empathy:

Basically, an empath has the ability to not only to understand the simple emotions others are feeling like fear, anger, or happiness, but also the ability to use observation, past memories and knowledge to accurately describe what that persons emotions may make them act like or do.

Nope.

An empath is someone who is unusually sensitive to the emotional state of others. I'm pretty much average in that respect. So no, I am not an empath. Nor am I the unfeeling clod you're trying to portray me as.

Yes. That the families of the victims should be closely looked at.
If you go back to the original post that you had an issue with and read it right through as a complete idea, you will get the point.
By, yourself, focusing on the situation (Thank you ) I was forced to expand a little on scenarios that tell us why we should focus on these people, not just with media bytes, but with real physical help.
I believe, since we last talked about it, that many moves have been made from all concerned to give these people the appropriate care, and that actual steps are taken now to address that situation.

You do realize, I hope, that since that plane disappeared there have been tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths throughout the world, right? And that most of them would have left loved ones behind? For each of whom the death would be just as much of a tragedy. Where is your empathy for them? Why are you not trying to explain how we should be focusing on them? Are you really that uncaring?

 

[TenEightyOne]

The crash zone is about as close to nowhere as it's possible to be but it's closer to Australia than anywhere else...

So where is Australia in relation to Nowhere? I'm struggling.

 

[Dotini]

So where is Australia in relation to Nowhere? I'm struggling.

Nowhere is often said to be found in the vicinity of Midland, Texas.

 

[kennylmao]

Nowhere is often said to be found in the vicinity of Midland, Texas.

Wrong, Kansas apparently.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So where is Australia in relation to Nowhere? I'm struggling.

We're in the Middle Ages, apparently. In his infinite wisdom, our Prime Minister has decided to reintroduce knighthoods and dame-ships (?), repeal parts of our anti-discrimination laws in order to defend peoples' "right to be a bigot", engage in character assassination by way of a Royal Commission, and ignore the conditions at the Manus Island detention centre.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Google Maps is showing 'Nowhere' as a gay bar on East 14th Street, NYC. That's as far as I looked

Back on topic, another 129 "objects of interest" are to be investigated, the reports are mixed as to whether these objects have been spotted together or whether that's a cumulative total from the entire search area (which would be one object every billion miles, ish).

EDIT: A significant 'grouping', from the sounds of things;

BBC

 

[Robin]

Slightly clearer pic.

 

[Touring Mars]

A friend of the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah has claimed that he was devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and was in no fit mental state to pilot a plane - and that he took the plane on a 'last joyride'...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11226334

 

[photonrider]

I beg to differ, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers watching the Malaysian Prime Minister's press conference about 10 hours before, but let us move gaily on

The press conference I was talking about (at time of edit was being transmitted live by CNN, BBC, and CBC) was the press conference given by the CEO and Chairman of MAS to officially announce no survivors, at which the press were allowed questions.

I stand corrected, I accept that you're now entirely up to speed and I look forward to your assessment of Kennedy's upcoming Dallas venture.

Whatever turns your crank.

You're still trying to make it sound like the death toll amongst the relatives etc due to this incident might be higher than the number of people lost in the actual incident.

You may be trying to read it that way. The death toll may be higher if they are neglected. Not just because of this incident.

I would be very surprised if more than one or two will die as a direct result, in fact I'd be surprised if any did. Your possible scenario of a suicide involving another plane and even more people is pretty far-fetched. Enough so that it sounds more like fear-mongering than rational speculation.

There is a fine line between fear-mongering and National Home Security, isn't there? What is far-fetched only becomes precedent. Read Debt of Honour.

An empath is someone who is unusually sensitive to the emotional state of others. I'm pretty much average in that respect. So no, I am not an empath.

That was a better answer, and would have been more than appropriate in the discussion on 'Empathy'.

Nor am I the unfeeling clod you're trying to portray me as.

I actually compared your stance to some other disciplines that are actually divine.

You do realize, I hope, that since that plane disappeared there have been tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths throughout the world, right? And that most of them would have left loved ones behind? For each of whom the death would be just as much of a tragedy. Where is your empathy for them? Why are you not trying to explain how we should be focusing on them? Are you really that uncaring?

You still didn't get the point.
However, as I said before, the point is now moot. Apparently these people are being looked after now.
As for all others who lost loved ones mysteriously never to see them again - I wish them the same care.

______________________________________

Hope this new debris field they've discovered will be more helpful. They really can't miss 122 pieces can they? Even one piece would help. Some of the pieces are 70' X 70' long. Clumps?

As for the unexplained half-ping, the attempt to communicate at the end . . .

 

[Dotini]

A friend of the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah has claimed that he was devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and was in no fit mental state to pilot a plane - and that he took the plane on a 'last joyride'...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11226334

Yeah, I agree he was a problem. I've made several posts about Captain Shah already - an interesting fellow with interesting friends. It would be distinctly in the interest of Malaysia and its airline to downplay stories and rumors about this pilot, as he potentially reflects very adversely upon them, and greatly affects any lawsuit that might be brought by victims.

 

[TenEightyOne]

@photonrider, it's 122 pieces that have been afloat at sea for nearly three weeks. Any miniscus of oil that they were sitting in will have broken up by now, maybe they'll still clump a little but I think the main hope is that the general area leads to an ELT signal.

 

[JMoney]

There's no way this is the airline's fault; they shouldn't have to pay to victim's families. The plane was either hijacked, or one of the pilots intentionally flew it offcourse. Either way, Malasia Airlines is not at fault.

 

[playnthru]

If it's determined to be pilot suicide. That makes it MA's responsibility, no?


They are responsible for their pilots.


*speculation*

 

[JMR450]

There's no way this is the airline's fault; they shouldn't have to pay to victim's families. The plane was either hijacked, or one of the pilots intentionally flew it offcourse. Either way, Malasia Airlines is not at fault.

We would need to look at other aircraft disasters and see if there was a precedent set in regards to paying victims families. If so, it may be likely it would apply here as well. Can't comment definitively without doing some research first.

I would think the airlines have insurance for events like this but again I am just speculating, someone in the know would have info on that as well.

 

[boiltheocean]

A friend of the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah has claimed that he was devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and was in no fit mental state to pilot a plane - and that he took the plane on a 'last joyride'...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11226334

Anonymous friend... The story also reads like it's been strung out of a few sentences. Until this 'friend' is named and the relationship that they have is examined then I wouldn't rust any of that.

 

[Pagey279]

It's all pointing towards pilot suicide/mass murder. Some people are still adamant that it was hijacked though, which seems fairly unlikely to me.
After all why would you go through all the planning, getting on the plane, hijacking it and then dumping it in the sea where no one can find it and no one will know who did it? Forgive me for saying this but surely if you were prepared to die and take the lives of 260 other people you would attempt a 911 like event.

But if it was a pilot suicide or indeed a hijacking it still doesn't answer the question of why no one on the plane sounded the alarm. Surely the passengers must have realised they had turned around and were flying in the wrong direction for a considerable amount of time. Why did no one contact the authorities or their relatives?

 

[JMR450]

It may seem like that @Pagey279 but no one has definitive proof of that scenario.

In reference to your comments on the passengers' cell phone use. Many factors could be at play that would eliminate the opportunity for them to communicate outside the plane.

 

[Dennisch]

For one the lack of cell towers in the middle of an ocean.

 

[photonrider]

A friend of the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah has claimed that he was devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and was in no fit mental state to pilot a plane - and that he took the plane on a 'last joyride'...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11226334

To add to that:
USA Today claims that there is more focus on the pilot. As to what his motives were if he was responsible for the deliberate turns is still up in the air. Or locked within the Flight Data Recorder. Unless the CVR was switched off we will also have the last two hours of cockpit sound.


@TenEightyOne - I was thinking more about pieces attached by cables, etc; you would of course know better than me on this being more familiar with a 777.

Personally, I also find it notable that RR and Boeing have lived in the shadows; they have generated minimal news - in fact nothing electrifying at all.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Surely the passengers must have realised they had turned around and were flying in the wrong direction for a considerable amount of time. Why did no one contact the authorities or their relatives?

The plane went missing at 2:41am local time. Chances are that they were all asleep. If they woke up, how would they know they were off course if they were in the dark at cruising altitude having been asleep for hours?

 

[TenEightyOne]

How far does a cell reach? I can't imagine it's 5 miles, that's the closest the phones would have been even over land. That hadn't occurred to me today.

@photonrider no cable is attached strongly enough (or strong enough itself) to resist the catastrophic destruction of a plane crash. I can't think of any cable-connected pieces from FGZCP or Concorde, two examples of destructive impact into a relatively solid medium.

That's not say there won't be some big pieces of wreckage... just that I expect any pieces still "joined" will be bolt or weld joints.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Thai authorities say they have found another three hundred objects in the search area, but have stopped short of confirming that they are pieces of debris from MH370.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Link to article and pics

From the little you can make out on the picture it's seemingly a credible "debris field".