MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

[photonrider]

@photonrider no cable is attached strongly enough (or strong enough itself) to resist the catastrophic destruction of a plane crash. I can't think of any cable-connected pieces from FGZCP or Concorde, two examples of destructive impact into a relatively solid medium.

That's not say there won't be some big pieces of wreckage... just that I expect any pieces still "joined" will be bolt or weld joints.

Thanks for the clarification. 👍

This new debris field may be the break we need.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

This new debris field may be the break we need.

You mean aside from the satellite tracking that conclusively put the plane in the area and the existing hundred and fifty pieces of debris nearby?

 

[TenEightyOne]

You mean aside from the satellite tracking that conclusively put the plane in the area and the existing hundred and fifty pieces of debris nearby?

It certainly seems that this part of the search area is returning a much greater ratio of "possible" objects than any other, that's a hopeful sign.

The question is whether or not there's any information to retrieve from the FDR/CVR, someone seems to have gone to some trouble to hide lots of other information about the flight, if the recorders were left running they may have nothing on them. Equally so if their operation was simply terminated just before the plane's 'diversion'.

 

[GTsail]

Link to article and pics

From the little you can make out on the picture it's seemingly a credible "debris field".

This new group of possible objects is spread-out over quite an area of the ocean, so I'm finding it hard to believe that this is the MH370 debris field. Am I the only one?

To me, the image looks more like a nice picture of some stars.👍

Almost as if the satellite camera was pointed skywards?💡

Major kudo's to all the search crews combing the southern Indian Ocean!
GTsail

 

[DQuaN]

It's been three weeks and that is an area that has very high winds. They already think that the debris could be 100km from the original crash site. I'm surprised it's so clumped together!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Somebody is trolling by throwing away debris around the search area intentionally

 

[photonrider]

You mean aside from the satellite tracking that conclusively put the plane in the area (?) and the existing hundred and fifty pieces of debris nearby?

Actually maybe the new new area (which now they say is in a complete different location) may give us more breaks. The fuel burn factored in a different speed and altitude and maybe we may have many breaks in the way of many, many pieces.

Definitely, maybe.

 

[TenEightyOne]

That final location isn't on fuel burn though, it's on the physical doppler offset from the last known signals. That's much more conclusive than working out the range on burn, altitude and winds-aloft. As we'd already seen that gave an area too huge to even contemplate.

 

[photonrider]

That final location isn't on fuel burn though, it's on the physical doppler offset from the last known signals. That's much more conclusive than working out the range on burn, altitude and winds-aloft. As we'd already seen that gave an area too huge to even contemplate.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

Site has moved North.

This is probably where the engines are, and probably the FDR and the CVR. If we are to find this new information credible.
Remember what the media reports is not official till the authorities confirm it - either via press conference or media-wide statement.

Nothing on the 'net yet - but CNN and CBC both reported that the search has now moved North of the debris.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Tree'd, just came to post that, it's on the Beeb feed atm.

 

[photonrider]

Suitably humiliating, I guess, in light of your recent media-speed critiques.

Live Conference now on given by Aussie authorities.

Confirmed:
New Search Area is 684 miles to the NE. 11 10 Aircraft being sent out. The area is 1,273 1150 miles west of Perth. (This makes it closer and so therefore more airtime for the search aircraft.)

Press were told not to call the satellite images a 'debris field,' that it may not all actually even be objects.

This ties in with the fact that there is a gyre right there - where the supposed 'debris field' is.
What remains a fact is that not one piece of 'debris' related to the plane was ever seen.

 

[JMR450]

Suitably humiliating, I guess, in light of your recent media-speed critiques.

Live Conference now on given by Aussie authorities.

Confirmed:
New Search Area is 684 miles to the NE. 11 10 Aircraft being sent out. The area is 1,273 1150 miles west of Perth. (This makes it closer and so therefore more airtime for the search aircraft.)

Press were told not to call the satellite images a 'debris field,' that it may not all actually even be objects.

This ties in with the fact that there is a gyre right there - where the supposed 'debris field' is.
What remains a fact is that not one piece of 'debris' related to the plane was ever seen.

I am having a hard time believing all this "credible" analysis that the aircraft flew south let alone crashed there.

The new search area has the aircraft less than 1000 miles off of the Australian coastline. The flight path still has the aircraft flying over Indonesia. Two questions- Why no radar information from Indonesia as the plane flew right over their country? and 2 - How far off the coast would the Australian radar see aircraft flying past their coastline?

My point is this, during the cold war we in Canada would scramble fighters to meet Soviet aircraft flying over the poles and heading to our northern border. There was then a US airbase set in Alaska for the same purpose. I dare say the radar would pick up Soviet planes several hundred if not 1000 miles off our northern coast. How is it the Aussies would not see the aircraft flying that close to their coastline? Are there no radar installations near Perth or farther north?

How is it the Indonesians have no radar contact with an unidentified aircraft flying over their country? If this is a malfunction or incident, and not a nefarious reason for the flight south, no prior plans would be in place to mask the aircraft flying south, hence no tangible reason for a lack of radar sightings.

I still think this whole southern route idea is nonsense, and until I see a tangible piece of evidence, I will stay committed to my idea that the aircraft flew north on a pre-arranged, fraudulent flight plan and is either on the ground or crashed in Tibet or western China.

 

[Exorcet]

My point is this, during the cold war we in Canada would scramble fighters to meet Soviet aircraft flying over the poles and heading to our northern border. There was then a US airbase set in Alaska for the same purpose. I dare say the radar would pick up Soviet planes several hundred if not 1000 miles off our northern coast. How is it the Aussies would not see the aircraft flying that close to their coastline? Are there no radar installations near Perth or farther north?

Radar range is aspect dependent, and the Cold War situation in North America is different from the current situation in Australia. A plane flying directly at a radar will often be seen first. If it's flying parallel or away, the detection range can be reduced.

Most of the Russian bombers making flights to NA during the Cold War were also Tu-95's with massive radar reflecting propellers. The fans on a 777 aren't stealthy at all, but may not be as visible as props.

High powered AWACS and ship radar is probably good for a few hundred miles of detection on something like an airliner. I doubt they would see for 1000 miles, but even if they could it doesn't mean detection would be guaranteed.

 

[JMR450]

Radar range is aspect dependent, and the Cold War situation in North America is different from the current situation in Australia. A plane flying directly at a radar will often be seen first. If it's flying parallel or away, the detection range can be reduced.

Most of the Russian bombers making flights to NA during the Cold War were also Tu-95's with massive radar reflecting propellers. The fans on a 777 aren't stealthy at all, but may not be as visible as props.

High powered AWACS and ship radar is probably good for a few hundred miles of detection on something like an airliner. I doubt they would see for 1000 miles, but even if they could it doesn't mean detection would be guaranteed.

OK fair point thanks.

 

[Keef]

Don't forget about the over-the-horizon radar arrays that Russia and the US employed during the Cold War.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

I have a theory but its dangerous. I hope I am wrong.

 

[JMR450]

I too have a theory and until I see tangible proof from the ocean I will stick to my mine.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

I feel like its scripted. Years in the making. I'm gonna stop now.

 

[JMR450]

I feel like its scripted. Years in the making. I'm gonna stop now.

Not for me, no script, nothing that ominous, but based on the data we know is conclusive and the data that should be available but isn't, the southern route just doesn't convince me. We look at the people on board, the political climate in China, and the opportunity to hide the aircraft near Afghanistan, I am much more supportive of the Northern route.

I would love to know what data the Intelligence community has been collecting, the pouring over by analysts of satellite, drone and spy plane data from the middle east, Pakistan, India, and western China. There in lies the answers.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Suitably humiliating, I guess, in light of your recent media-speed critiques.

What, that I was watching the F1 and saw the update at the same time as you? I have my humble moments but shan't scrape my brow just yet.

This new debris field may be the break we need.

We told you to be careful!

Press were told not to call the satellite images a 'debris field,' that it may not all actually even be objects...What remains a fact is that not one piece of 'debris' related to the plane was ever seen.

But you called it a debris field too... watching you in this thread is like watching primary school football

I would love to know what data the Intelligence community has been collecting, the pouring over by analysts of satellite, drone and spy plane data from the middle east, Pakistan, India, and western China

Oh yes

Just reading that the plane was travelling faster and therefore burning more fuel (two not always related, I presume they mean the engines were running faster). A pilot instinctively burns the engines as lean and as gently as possible at all times, even without any engine gauges the pilot would be aware if the engines were spinning above their normal speed, that suggests to me that either the throttle action was deliberate or the pilots were unconscious as an altitude change took place (or completed)... for whatever reason the autothrottle+kias/mach-hold weren't active and the plane ended up with an incorrect throttle.

Alternatively, maybe the pilots were in a position (similar to AF but inevitably for different reasons) where they no longer trusted the readings that they were getting or they were trusting wholly inaccurate readings. On the 777 that would mean a full panel loss and surface instrument damage.

Maybe whatever started this incident wasn't meant to end out at sea and somebody intervened to destroy the plane rather than let it be used as a weapon. I just can't believe now that there was any kind of accidental failure or emergency on the plane. The pilot would have been able to make land with a 10' glide in at least 90' of the compass, the turn was made before the last "okay"... but what is going on?

The conspiracists will always say that the plane spent the whole of the search sitting in a hanger in Xinjiang... and that the Americans and Chinese knew. Hmmmm....

 

[photonrider]

What, that I was watching the F1 and saw the update at the same time as you? I have my humble moments but shan't scrape my brow just yet.

As an aero-nut, you are watching way too much other stuff. You should be constantly monitoring this situation and posting everything first.

We told you to be careful!

I know; I should listen to my elders.

But you called it a debris field too... watching you in this thread is like watching primary school football

Which is why I put it in quotes; we were informed it was a debris field before that, and referred to it as such instead of 'thrash from the gyre'.
As for being a member of the press . . .
Haven't watched primary school 'football' in years. Has it improved?

Malaysian Airlines giving a press conference live right now.

Edit: Nothing new except for a promise to families that any news the Airlines gets about the search will be conveyed immediately.
We may actually have come to some turning point in this investigation.

Hopefully we do before someone starts with the 'drone' theory.
Boeing did have remote controlled flying the years ago really, but that was quickly shelved; no Captain would like his craft controlled 100% by someone off the craft.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Defence force chief Angus Houston has been put in charge of the search.

Which means we're not going to be told anything.

Houston is in charge of Operation Soverign Borders, a naval operation to thwart people smuggling and illegal immigrants. A big part of this operation - which is controversial - is that the government refuses to divulge anything relating to the navy's operations on the grounds of national security (except when they want to tell us how awesome they are), and then they hide behind the Speaker of the House to avoid awkward questions. It is always a comforting thought that in a straight fight between a billion-dollar warship and a barely-seaworthy fishing vessel, the only thing keeping that fight from being one-sided in favour of that fishing vessel is how much the government tells us.

So if MH370 is found, I doubt we will hear about it. Maybe the Chinese should be looking at Manus Island. Because if the plane is going to turn up, that's where it will be.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Boeing did have remote controlled flying the years ago really

True

but that was quickly shelved

Untrue, they're amongst the best in the world at it.

no Captain would like his craft controlled 100% by someone off the craft

Partially true, but can be mitigated by crew-controlled interrupts. Just like they have now.

To perform a fly-by-remote hack you need to fit a lot of extra equipment to the plane. This plane would have to be specially prepared... if you wanted a plane that badly you'd presumably have the finance available to lease one.

Maybe the Chinese should be looking at Manus Island. Because if the plane is going to turn up, that's where it will be.

Teressa, I think. If the plane was stolen it was stolen for something aboard... so they kept it in the area. That doesn't explain the positioning data but every theory has to be allowed to discount at least one major piece of evidence in order to work.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Teressa, I think. If the plane was stolen it was stolen for something aboard... so they kept it in the area. That doesn't explain the positioning data but every theory has to be allowed to discount at least one major piece of evidence in order to work.

Manus Island is where illegal immigrants are taken for offshore processing under Operation Soverign Borders.

 

[TenEightyOne]

D'oh!

What a great name for a border-control operation, by the way. Your government clearly has a Department for Naming Things that's as good as ours

 

[DK]

Defence force chief Angus Houston has been put in charge of the search.

Which means we're not going to be told anything.

Houston is in charge of Operation Soverign Borders, a naval operation to thwart people smuggling and illegal immigrants. A big part of this operation - which is controversial - is that the government refuses to divulge anything relating to the navy's operations on the grounds of national security (except when they want to tell us how awesome they are), and then they hide behind the Speaker of the House to avoid awkward questions. It is always a comforting thought that in a straight fight between a billion-dollar warship and a barely-seaworthy fishing vessel, the only thing keeping that fight from being one-sided in favour of that fishing vessel is how much the government tells us.

So if MH370 is found, I doubt we will hear about it. Maybe the Chinese should be looking at Manus Island. Because if the plane is going to turn up, that's where it will be.

I think I noticed a chart next to Abbott during one of his press conferences about MH370, and it was comparing the number of boats carrying illegal immigrants arriving in Australia under the Liberals and under Labo(u)r. What a dick-waving arsehole.

 

[R.S]

I think I noticed a chart next to Abbott during one of his press conferences about MH370, and it was comparing the number of boats carrying illegal immigrants arriving in Australia under the Liberals and under Labo(u)r. What a dick-waving arsehole.

The man is an embarrassment, every time I see him attempting to say something on TV on one hand I can't stop laughing but on the other feeling embarrassed that this man is supposed to be our leader and is supposedly representing me. ugh.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The man is an embarrassment, every time I see him attempting to say something on TV on one hand I can't stop laughing but on the other feeling embarrassed that this man is supposed to be our leader and is supposedly representing me. ugh.

I felt bad for you guys the moment he decided to declare to the world that Australia basically found the plane which they in fact hadn't.

 

[stiggygonzalez]

If the black boxes can be recovered and assuming they're intact,the authorities can piece together what happened and give those poor families involved some closure.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

According to my parent's, America has stopped searching. My parent's said, America's just waiting for China to come out with some news so America can see how much power China has and how well powerful their satellites are.