MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

[prisonermonkeys]

I think I noticed a chart next to Abbott during one of his press conferences about MH370, and it was comparing the number of boats carrying illegal immigrants arriving in Australia under the Liberals and under Labo(u)r. What a dick-waving arsehole.

Yeah, it was the same press conference where he was celebrating 100 days without an illegal arrival. Or 100 days of forcibly turning boats back to Indonesia, violating both Indonesian waters and maritime law.

I felt bad for you guys the moment he decided to declare to the world that Australia basically found the plane which they in fact hadn't.

It's just him deflecting attention away from domestic issues. Like the way the assistant to the treasurer has been called to the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Or the way the Attorney-General wants to repeal parts of the Anti-Discrimination Act to protect "peoples' right to be a bigot" (mostly because their mouthpiece in the media got done in a defamation case). Or the way the Speaker of the House is clearly not as impartial as she should be and is favoring the government. Or the way the Leader of the House called a state election illegitimate because their party won the popular vote, but did not form government, displaying a total lack of awareness about the democratic process (but this is a man who is proud of holding the record for being ejected from the House of Representatives).

In other words, he is desperate for some good press.

 

[Grayfox]

Abbott.

A version of John Howard with hair.

 

[Imari]

Abbott.

A version of John Howard with hair.

And less awesome eyebrows.

 

[R.S]

And less awesome eyebrows.

At least John Howard could actually speak.

 

[Touring Mars]

The difference between Wolf Blitzer and a carnival barker not much more than polish and circumstances. I admit I may have been duped by their blandishments, bias and maybe even censorship, deception and propaganda lies.

After a quick search on Blitzer, it seems he's full of crap.

The fact that the last words from the plane are different to what has been previously reported is still very hard to understand, but apparently the 'revised' version is more in-keeping with the formal language that pilots use, such that the original 'last words' were considered suspicious on the basis that they didn't include the flight's handle - the revised words do.

 

[Dotini]

After a quick search on Blitzer, it seems he's full of crap.

The fact that the last words from the plane are different to what has been previously reported is still very hard to understand, but apparently the 'revised' version is more in-keeping with the formal language that pilots use, such that the original 'last words' were considered suspicious on the basis that they didn't include the flight's handle - the revised words do.

The Malaysians steadfastly refuse to release the transcript - they can retroactively make it say anything they find convenient! The arrogance and effrontery of these petty tyrants is mind-boggling. In the US and other developed countries, releasing the transcript of cockpit radio transmissions is standard practice. The Malaysians are making an effort to leave the distinct impression that they are trying to hide things. Another clear example is how they are hushing up all talk of the pilot's marital, political and emotional issues. Quite why the US is "pivoting to Asia" in military alliances against the Chinese with these autocratic gangster states is disturbing - Malaysian Grand Prix notwithstanding.

@JMR450

@LMSCorvetteGT2

Here is a partial unofficial transcript of what Darby said (and I remember it a different way, without reference to another airplane) to Blitzer:

BLITZER: I think it would be normal to say, "All right, good night." What's not normal? Four weeks into this, is for Malaysian authorities, all of a sudden, to revise the final words from the cockpit to the ground, and they refuse to release the transport. Refuse to release the audiotape.

DARBY: And there was some unsubstantiated reports, an emergency radio frequency call, asking another airplane to contact this airplane.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1403/31/wolf.02.html

 

[Scaff]

The Malaysians steadfastly refuse to release the transcript - they can retroactively make it say anything they find convenient! The arrogance and effrontery of these petty tyrants is mind-boggling. In the US and other developed countries, releasing the transcript of cockpit radio transmissions is standard practice. The Malaysians are making an effort to leave the distinct impression that they are trying to hide things. Another clear example is how they are hushing up all talk of the pilot's marital, political and emotional issues. Quite why the US is "pivoting to Asia" in military alliances against the Chinese with these autocratic gangster states is disturbing - Malaysian Grand Prix notwithstanding.

You mean this transcript?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/04/01/transcript.pdf?hpt=hp_t1

Found via CNN

 

[Dotini]

You mean this transcript?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/04/01/transcript.pdf?hpt=hp_t1

Found via CNN

No, I meant the actual audiotape of the voices speaking - not lies scribbled by a clerk.

 

[JMR450]

The Malaysians steadfastly refuse to release the transcript - they can retroactively make it say anything they find convenient! The arrogance and effrontery of these petty tyrants is mind-boggling. In the US and other developed countries, releasing the transcript of cockpit radio transmissions is standard practice. The Malaysians are making an effort to leave the distinct impression that they are trying to hide things. Another clear example is how they are hushing up all talk of the pilot's marital, political and emotional issues. Quite why the US is "pivoting to Asia" in military alliances against the Chinese with these autocratic gangster states is disturbing - Malaysian Grand Prix notwithstanding.

@JMR450

@LMSCorvetteGT2

Here is a partial unofficial transcript of what Darby said (and I remember it a different way, without reference to another airplane) to Blitzer:

BLITZER: I think it would be normal to say, "All right, good night." What's not normal? Four weeks into this, is for Malaysian authorities, all of a sudden, to revise the final words from the cockpit to the ground, and they refuse to release the transport. Refuse to release the audiotape.

DARBY: And there was some unsubstantiated reports, an emergency radio frequency call, asking another airplane to contact this airplane.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1403/31/wolf.02.html

Thanks @Dotini, like I said, if Darby's comments can be backed up with credible evidence then maybe he's got something. In regards to the Malaysians, they have lost all credibility with me. It is bizarre the way things are evolving and I would have no problem believing they are trying to cover something up are are culpable in this incident.

 

[Robin]

I'm starting to call bull on this whole thing, every day it sounds more and more like a cover up. Hundreds and hundreds of pieces of debris yet nothing has been recovered.... then we heard some stuff had indeed been recovered from the sea by a ship.... then we heard nothing about those recovered pieces! How many times do you have to fly over stuff yet do nothing about it! GPS trackers not working? There's even a bloody submarine now!

Now this morning they are saying we will likely never know what happened and encouraging us to let it go. Sounds like wanting to sweep it off the news and under the carpet to me.

 

[Imari]

I'm starting to call bull on this whole thing, every day it sounds more and more like a cover up. Hundreds and hundreds of pieces of debris yet nothing has been recovered.... then we heard some stuff had indeed been recovered from the sea by a ship.... then we heard nothing about those recovered pieces! How many times do you have to fly over stuff yet do nothing about it! GPS trackers not working? There's even a bloody submarine now!

Now this morning they are saying we will likely never know what happened and encouraging us to let it go. Sounds like wanting to sweep it off the news and under the carpet to me.

You do understand that the ocean is quite a big place? It's probably not nearly as easy as, say, trying to find a particular mosquito that happened to fall in the swimming pool when you weren't looking.

 

[Dennisch]

At this rate of finding nothing and the Malaysian government trying to cover up something, I think that within a couple of days this plane will be lost forever.

China should invade Malaysia to find out the truth.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Now this morning they are saying we will likely never know what happened and encouraging us to let it go. Sounds like wanting to sweep it off the news and under the carpet to me.

I'm not sure I heard that statement the same way as you. Finding the plane is not the same as finding out what happened on the flight deck - unless you presume that the plane's systems were operating normally for the last few hours of flight. The likelihood is that they'll be empty.

That leaves the rebuild of the plane, unfortunately the small pieces associated with an explosion or fire can be the most difficult to find in a ground impact. The large pieces that can be recovered from a deep-sea crash aren't likely to show anything or than large-scale traces, there's unlikely to be any minute forensic detail there.

 

[Robin]

You do understand that the ocean is quite a big place? It's probably not nearly as easy as, say, trying to find a particular mosquito that happened to fall in the swimming pool when you weren't looking.

It was a big place... then they found areas with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of debris, saw them by plane, dropped GPS markers and still haven't managed to pick them up. What a joke. Then they claimed some pieces had been brought aboard a search vessel.... never heard about them again, even more of a joke.

I'm not sure I heard that statement the same way as you. Finding the plane is not the same as finding out what happened on the flight deck - unless you presume that the plane's systems were operating normally for the last few hours of flight. The likelihood is that they'll be empty.

I read it as never find the plane, which then means never find out what happened. They seemed to have exhausted everything they could possibly get out of the tracking info they have.

Even just now they have stated they have dismissed any involvement of passengers, giving no evidence or reason for this conclusion drawn out of thin air. Where do they get all this from, seriously?

 

[Barra333]

It was a big place... then they found areas with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of debris, saw them by plane, dropped GPS markers and still haven't managed to pick them up. What a joke. Then they claimed some pieces had been brought aboard a search vessel.... never heard about them again, even more of a joke.

Have you ever looked for something in the open ocean? Last November, a ship I was on with 15 others spent over an hour to find a 1m round bright orange float, when we knew the location. On calm seas. These guys are looking for nondescript coloured items, of unknown size and shape, in some of the roughest seas out there. Do you think the AU/NZ/Chinese navies are spending millions searching for fun?

Given that most (all) of the search vessels are from countries with nothing to hide, and have been lampooning Malaysia for being secretive, you can be 99.9% sure that whatever has come aboard was (figuratively and literally) garbage. Maybe you want an inventory of all of the **** that has been found floating in the ocean.

I am just as skeptical of the Malaysian handling of this as the next guy, but panning the searchers is below the belt.

 

[Touring Mars]

It was a big place... then they found areas with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of debris, saw them by plane, dropped GPS markers and still haven't managed to pick them up. What a joke. Then they claimed some pieces had been brought aboard a search vessel.... never heard about them again, even more of a joke.

I read it as never find the plane, which then means never find out what happened. They seemed to have exhausted everything they could possibly get out of the tracking info they have.

Even just now they have stated they have dismissed any involvement of passengers, giving no evidence or reason for this conclusion drawn out of thin air. Where do they get all this from, seriously?

http://news.discovery.com/earth/oceans/garbage-patch-primer-whats-an-ocean-gyre-140331.htm

There's alot of rubbish in the oceans, both from dumping of rubbish at sea and from natural events such as tsunamis. There's a gyre in the Indian Ocean that extends pretty much all the way from the west coast of Australia to the coast of Africa.

With so little known about exactly where, when or how the plane went down, the odds of finding it quickly were always pretty low. And the odds of finding a conveniently localized debris field are getting exponentially lower as more and more time passes.

It's perhaps not surprising that the authorities haven't spelled it out in such plain words yet that the plane may never be found for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that this was always a possibility. The Air France accident showed that a large plane can go down accidentally and with all communications active and still be difficult to find - it took more than two years for the black box to be found, and only after that could they really begin to understand what had happened to the flight. But, factor in some deliberate action - i.e. a pilot having a funny turn, and the situation potentially becomes very different.

I'm assuming that they have ruled out passenger responsibility on the basis that the known behavior of the flight required a very high level of expert knowledge of aviation to pull off i.e. meaning the pilots or the crew were at least aware, and/or most likely responsible for the change of flight path. Either that or a very well organized group of passengers were responsible, but there is no evidence for that at all. I agree that it is probably a bit early in the day to be ruling anything out completely, though.

 

[JMR450]

I think the only thing below the belt here @Barra333 is jabbing at @Robin for stating the obvious. The whole search is based on half ass information and a bunch of genius's speculating and making hypothesis. Even at Inmarsat they have off the record admitted to one of CNN analysts that they have no idea where it is they are just following the math. They have defined search areas that we are expected to believe are accurate but nothing is turning up. Wonder why that is??

No one on this forum has the right to expect their opinion is more valuable than anyone else since none of us are experts, have no real clue of any evidence collected and are not "in the room" where the decisions are made. This thread is full of speculation and each of us has the right to voice our opinion without criticism.

I have already stated my opinion but I do not hammer away on any of you for having a polar opposite opinion. I would expect others could be equally polite. Remember, no one here is any better than anyone else.

Excuse my rant but I find it offensive when someone is jumped on for their opinion especially in a forum where the issue at hand is surrounded by excessive speculation.

 

[Barra333]

I think the only thing below the belt here @Barra333 is jabbing at @Robin for stating the obvious. The whole search is based on half ass information and a bunch of genius's speculating and making hypothesis. Even at Inmarsat they have off the record admitted to one of CNN analysts that they have no idea where it is they are just following the math. They have defined search areas that we are expected to believe are accurate but nothing is turning up. Wonder why that is??

If you look at the passage of Robin's that I quoted, he is clearly having a go at the people on site who are physically looking for the debris. The satellite/radar/defining the search area is a different thing. The people in the aircraft and on the ships are only going where they are told.

No one on this forum has the right to expect their opinion is more valuable than anyone else since none of us are experts, have no real clue of any evidence collected and are not "in the room" where the decisions are made. This thread is full of speculation and each of us has the right to voice our opinion without criticism.

I have already stated my opinion but I do not hammer away on any of you for having a polar opposite opinion. I would expect others could be equally polite. Remember, no one here is any better than anyone else.
Excuse my rant but I find it offensive when someone is jumped on for their opinion especially in a forum where the issue at hand is surrounded by excessive speculation.

While everyone is welcome to an opinion, some of what is being discussed here is based on fact - and as such, some people's experience in their profession make their thoughts more grounded in fact than speculation by others. I'm sure you are aware that there are members here who have an excellent knowledge of aircraft and all things aviation. I don't, and will not try and argue with them, or disagree on their specialty.

I happen to have spent time in the open ocean, which at times involved looking for a floating object. I would like to think that counts for more than the average keyboard warrior (not aimed at anyone in particular here) who have never been out of sight of land who thinks that finding a crashed plane is childs play.

 

[JMR450]

If you look at the passage of Robin's that I quoted, he is clearly having a go at the people on site who are physically looking for the debris. The satellite/radar/defining the search area is a different thing. The people in the aircraft and on the ships are only going where they are told.

While everyone is welcome to an opinion, some of what is being discussed here is based on fact - and as such, some people's experience in their profession make their thoughts more grounded in fact than speculation by others. I'm sure you are aware that there are members here who have an excellent knowledge of aircraft and all things aviation. I don't, and will not try and argue with them, or disagree on their specialty.

I happen to have spent time in the open ocean, which at times involved looking for a floating object. I would like to think that counts for more than the average keyboard warrior (not aimed at anyone in particular here) who have never been out of sight of land who thinks that finding a crashed plane is childs play.

I think you are being overly sensitive. I did not make the inference that Robin was slamming the searchers. I think it is fair to say we see each day the prolonged search taking its toll and while those interviewed put on a professional face, it must be exhausting and frustrating.

I also think your experience may have some merit but doesn't excuse your behavior, sorry. I work in the machinery industry and I also blog about the automotive industry, all facets of it. I can assure you my 30 years experience out weighs many on here by a mile. But if I got defensive and weighed in on every thing I think the "keyboard warriors" got wrong, I'd never leave the forum.

Have some patience and understanding, many people will appreciate your opinion and leadership when your comments are constructive.

 

[Robin]

@Barra333 I'm peeved about the misinformation, it's not the fault of the people actually searching for the debris if the media, governments, scientists, experts etc are in essence speculating, even lying about how things are really going. It's a joke that stuff can be said that is not materialising.

A massive over embellishment of the truth is probably the best way of putting it. I'm not having a go at the people on sight... I'm having a go at what is being claimed about what is happening on sight.

I understand the ocean is big but its claimed a rather specific small area has been found containing lots of debris by satellite and that lots of it has been sighted by plane, moved upon by boat and even some has been retrieved... BUT is any off this true? we don’t know! If it is then boy there is something seriously wrong with the flow of information. If something has come aboard and it is garbage... let people know!

This story only goes at two speeds….playing it up or playing it down. I feel for the rollercoaster of emotions the family members have to face with this coverage.

 

[Barra333]

@Barra333 I'm peeved about the misinformation, it's not the fault of the people actually searching for the debris if the media, governments, scientists, experts etc are in essence speculating, even lying about how things are really going. It's a joke that stuff can be said that is not materialising.

I understood from your post I quoted that you were annoyed at the misinformation, but the bit that I was mainly responding to is quoted again here. I guess it sounds harsher than you intended?

...How many times do you have to fly over stuff yet do nothing about it! GPS trackers not working? There's even a bloody submarine now!

---

I also think your experience may have some merit but doesn't excuse your behavior, sorry. I work in the machinery industry and I also blog about the automotive industry, all facets of it. I can assure you my 30 years experience out weighs many on here by a mile. But if I got defensive and weighed in on every thing I think the "keyboard warriors" got wrong, I'd never leave the forum.

This is the internet, my behaviour could have been a lot worse. If something comes up about your field of expertise, I will happily defer to your experience. Though to be fair, there are a few more people on this site from the automotive industry than have searched for stuff in the open ocean.

Have some patience and understanding, many people will appreciate your opinion and leadership when your comments are constructive.

The thread is the better part of a month and 1,000 posts old and I have made ten of them (11 now). Not exactly throwing my weight around. Let me know how much longer I should be here before I can have another opinion or disagree based on something I learned at work. Thanks.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The search area is about 2/3 the size of the US, isn't it? And the debris that has been recovered has been flotsam or jetsam, that's not been kept secret.

I'm not sticking up for the Malaysians but I kind of feel for them; I've worked in a project 'home' office whose primary language/script has differed from that of four 'site' offices, trying to manage communications and meetings is a nightmare, especially if each site continues to work in its own time zone.

The Malaysians had all that along with the presence of American and Chinese governmental intelligence agencies, all presumably trying to control the news so that they can establish if the aircraft is grounded as part of a criminal scheme. Seems like a no-win situation for whoever's had to run the public press output.

 

[JMR450]

I understood from your post I quoted that you were annoyed at the misinformation, but the bit that I was mainly responding to is quoted again here. I guess it sounds harsher than you intended?


---
This is the internet, my behaviour could have been a lot worse. If something comes up about your field of expertise, I will happily defer to your experience. Though to be fair, there are a few more people on this site from the automotive industry than have searched for stuff in the open ocean.


The thread is the better part of a month and 1,000 posts old and I have made ten of them (11 now). Not exactly throwing my weight around. Let me know how much longer I should be here before I can have another opinion or disagree based on something I learned at work. Thanks.

It appears I have hurt your feelings, my apologies. Continue on and best wishes.

The search area is about 2/3 the size of the US, isn't it? And the debris that has been recovered has been flotsam or jetsam, that's not been kept secret.

I'm not sticking up for the Malaysians but I kind of feel for them; I've worked in a project 'home' office whose primary language/script has differed from that of four 'site' offices, trying to manage communications and meetings is a nightmare, especially if each site continues to work in its own time zone.

The Malaysians had all that along with the presence of American and Chinese governmental intelligence agencies, all presumably trying to control the news so that they can establish if the aircraft is grounded as part of a criminal scheme. Seems like a no-win situation for whoever's had to run the public press output.

I "felt" for them initially too but not so much now. I feel the inconsistencies and the lack of solid leads should maybe lead to an outside investigator running the show because the Malaysians could be culpable in this at some level.

 

[Robin]

The search area is about 2/3 the size of the US, isn't it? And the debris that has been recovered has been flotsam or jetsam, that's not been kept secret.

This is the confusing thing, we were told today on the news the search area is now the size of the UK which is roughly the size of Oregon.... so which is it?.... again we don't really know what is true or not! I hadn't heard they have confirmed that what was brought aboard was just sea junk.

They have now apparently moved on to underwater searching, which would again imply a narrowing down of the area because it would be mad to sonar search anything larger. I don't get how they can start scanning the seabed if they don't have a clue where or even if its there.

 

[Ryanswannell]

They have now apparently moved on to underwater searching, which would again imply a narrowing down of the area because it would be mad to sonar search anything larger. I don't get how they can start scanning the seabed if they don't have a clue where or even if its there.

Because after almost a month of searching the surface, looking underwater is definitely the next viable option. Should the plane have fallen out of the sky, I doubt there is going to be much floating on the surface now...

 

[TenEightyOne]

A towed-array search has found a pulse on the same frequency as the ELT. This has not yet been confirmed to be from the missing plane.

Coordinates given are about 25,101... a quick Google says that's about here;

 

[Robin]

^ Yeah, just saw the breaking news. It could be anything seeing as there are so many ships and sub's in the area but here's hoping.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Coordinates given are about 25,101... a quick Google says that's about here;

Which is another thousand kilometres north and at least five hundred kilometers west of the last search zone - which was a thousand kilometers north and east of the original search zone.

 

[photonrider]

Defence force chief Angus Houston has been put in charge of the search.

Which means we're not going to be told anything.

He is about to give a press conference in a few moments.

What will he say or not say?
Something regarding dolphins singing 'Thank You' songs about fish?
Or will this be yet another one of the red herrings that have filled the 'net so far?
Awaiting media bedazzlement. . . .

 

[prisonermonkeys]

AMSA aren't happy with the Chinese. The ship that found the pings is outside the search area, and the first anybody involved in the search heard of this was when a reporter for Xinhua on-board the ship Tweeted about it.