MH370: Malaysian Airlines Flight to Beijing carrying 239 people is lost over sea.

  • Thread starter Furinkazen
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Dennisch
If they ever find the data recorders they should give the teams involved a statue.
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It should be a floating statue that stays at least 100 miles off the coast at all times, so they have to find it again...


But really, how many 767's and T7's have gone into the water in the southern hemi?
 
Swagger897
But really, how many 767's and T7's have gone into the water in the southern hemi?
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Not that much actually.

As for the Indian Ocean, there was a crash with a 747 in 1987, and that about it.

Edit. The map isn't all that accurate, since its missing the EL AL 747 that hit a building in Amsterdam, the Turkish Airlines crash in 09, so it probably misses a couple more.
 
I'm actually hoping this is MH370 just for the reason it may give families a little more closure and overall end this saga.
 
Dennisch
Not that much actually.

As for the Indian Ocean, there was a crash with a 747 in 1987, and that about it.

Edit. The map isn't all that accurate, since its missing the EL AL 747 that hit a building in Amsterdam, the Turkish Airlines crash in 09, so it probably misses a couple more.
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This couldn't be from a 747 though, it's a flaperon (combination of extendable flap and aileron), no such thing on a 747.

Furinkazen
I'm actually hoping this is MH370 just for the reason it may give families a little more closure and overall end this saga.
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Well, come back 4 posts ago for good news ;)

Meanwhile the Daily Mirror, that last bastion of good-sense-and-professional-journalism* lists 19 conspiracy theories of varying degrees of excellence**.

* For people with brain-rabies
** Idiocy
 
Dennisch
Not that much actually.

As for the Indian Ocean, there was a crash with a 747 in 1987, and that about it.

Edit. The map isn't all that accurate, since its missing the EL AL 747 that hit a building in Amsterdam, the Turkish Airlines crash in 09, so it probably misses a couple more.
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Yeah so... It had to be it from the beginning, and everyone always is so PC about it, without pointing the obvious out.
 
Dennisch
The map isn't all that accurate, since its missing the EL AL 747 that hit a building in Amsterdam, the Turkish Airlines crash in 09, so it probably misses a couple more.
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Neither of those count, 43 fatalities in the first and 9 in the second.

Swagger897
Yeah so... It had to be it from the beginning, and everyone always is so PC about it, without pointing the obvious out.
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You might have to, I really don't know what you mean with the PC reference? My take is that there were a number of possible aircraft that carry a flaperon and a number of ways that a recycled part might be in the ocean... it didn't "have to be" that-part-from-that-plane at all... ;)
 
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Dennisch
If they ever find the data recorders they should give the teams involved a statue.
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Well the families this morning are refusing to believe the wing is from MH370, I guess the only thing which would ever bring closure is when they find the data recorders.
 
Robin.
Well the families this morning are refusing to believe the wing is from MH370, I guess the only thing which would ever bring closure is when they find the data recorders.
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Only some of. I read an article with the views of several families last night and, dare I say it, the disbelievers seemed mainly from poorer (or less well-educated) backgrounds... I think they're boggling at the explanation of how the part may have travelled to where it did.

EDIT: Here's the article, BBC.
 
France are launching a search around La Reunion to see if more debris can be turned up.

Investigators continue to stress that they have not confirmed a link between the discovered flaperon and MH370. BBC.
 
It's extremely convenient to find a detached bit of wing. Almost as if it was seeded there by, say, some agency that had stolen the plane and squirrelled it away somewhere remote and desolate and then placed a large section that cannot possibly be reverse-engineered into a loss incident for people to find to allay suspicion.

Naming no Chinas, of course. I mean names.
 
Famine
a large section that cannot possibly be reverse-engineered into a loss incident
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't find plane crashes interesting. They're great to read about. But can I have this bit explained, please? I have brain fade.
 
Famine
It's extremely convenient to find a detached bit of wing. Almost as if it was seeded there by, say, some agency that had stolen the plane and squirrelled it away somewhere remote and desolate and then placed a large section that cannot possibly be reverse-engineered into a loss incident for people to find to allay suspicion.

Naming no Chinas, of course. I mean names.
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I know you're being sarcastic, but this is the internet. No doubt someone will pick up on this post in about half an hour and use it to break the Twittersphere with a little bit of elaboration as to how China manipulated the satellite tracking systems, and why they saw fit ti discreetly hijack a 737 mid-flight in the first place.
 
prisonermonkeys
why they saw fit ti discreetly hijack a 737 mid-flight in the first place.
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Because of those twenty executives at that Texan company working on some kind of new superconductor who were on the flight. With them out of the way, the only remaining shareholders are the Rothschilds.

Where has your tinhat been?
 
Dennisch
You're on to something there, @Famine.
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I was when I said it 18 months ago too :D
Liquid
I'd be lying if I said I didn't find plane crashes interesting. They're great to read about. But can I have this bit explained, please? I have brain fade.
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When planes crash, recovering as much debris as possible is vital. Even after it has been bent and twisted by an unscheduled meeting with the ground, stresses and fracture patterns between the various fragments can tell you what happened - to the point that even when a plane explodes 30,000ft above Scotland and clatters into the planet at 600mph, we can say where the bomb was located to within an error margin of about a foot.

A bit of wing will tell no-one anything. Especially if the bit of wing was removed from the rest of the plane in an extremely careful manner by a bloatedly-funded military agency with unfettered access to it for 18 months.
prisonermonkeys
I know you're being sarcastic, but this is the internet. No doubt someone will pick up on this post in about half an hour and use it to break the Twittersphere with a little bit of elaboration as to how China manipulated the satellite tracking systems, and why they saw fit ti discreetly hijack a 737 mid-flight in the first place.
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Uhh... it's been ongoing since the start. China certainly has the means and, with a plane full of Chinese nationals flying to Beijing, the opportunity. For motive, there was a large selection of semi-conductor experts on board. I'm sure there may be other motives too, what with their inscrutability and all.

As for falsifying the satellite tracking systems... the Inmarsat data has been questionable since the start, but check out where the Northern edge of its arc lies (from the same post linked to @Dennisch above).
 
I'm just wondering how David Icke got Famine's password...

It is possible, but whether it is plausible is another matter - I reckon that it is only a matter of time unless more pieces of debris are discovered that will shed more light on what actually happened.
 
Touring Mars
I'm just wondering how David Icke got Famine's password...

It is possible, but whether it is plausible is another matter - I reckon that it is only a matter of time unless more pieces of debris are discovered that will shed more light on what actually happened.
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As things stand, two possibilities exist for the disappearance of an entire aircraft. The first is that it fell into a large and deep expanse of water and the second is that it was deliberately taken and has been hidden. The positioning evidence from INMARSAT supports both a journey south towards the ocean and north towards an highly militarised part of Chinese desert.

Occam's Razor would be a little upset at the second explanation as it requires more than just a simple accident, but MH370 didn't just behave oddly by disappearing. It behaved oddly by climbing, diving and changing course several times after it left Kuala Lumpur, before it took its apparent unerring flight south to its eventual destination in the deep.

There hasn't yet been an explanation for this. Some posited early on that a fire somehow managed to take out parts of avionics to cause the erratic manouevres over the Gulf of Thailand and turn off all of the tracking equipment systematically (except the one in the engines that no-one knew about) and then allow the plane to fly arrow straight for 6 hours despite all the earlier erratic maneouvres, and William of Ockham may blink a bit at that one. That all suggests at a human hand at the helm and a series of deliberate actions - particularly the part where any method one could use to track the plane was turned off, one by one, except the brand new one INMARSAT hadn't told anyone about. The last radar sighting of the plane had it going towards a known radar deadzone corridor - roughly in the direction of north-west China.


As far as I'm aware, we have about the same amount of evidence for MH370 heading south as we do north. There is no explanation for the plane's activities in the first hour of the flight, but it seems more plausible that they were a series of controlled actions than random chance.

Of course, the "hijacking" thread also needs an explanation of means, motive and opportunity. I think it's fair to say that China has the means to do this - their espionage and military capability and willingness to use them are legendary, while Taklamakan is the alleged location of many secret bases (that could easily house a large aircraft away from prying eyes) and forced labour camps and potash mines in which to imprison anyone they wished to keep. Opportunity - well, it was a plane of Chinese nationals flying from Malaysia to Beijing. Motive is extremely difficult to pin down - lots of fingers pointed at the 20+ Freescale Semiconductor employees on board who would have knowledge valuable to people keen on e-warfare. Whether that's enough of a motive to hijack a plane and kidnap everyone on it... *shrug* Still, if they'd have been caught in the act or it failed, they could have just blown it up and blamed separatist groups (like Putin allegedly did with Chechnyans).

It doesn't seem like an hypothesis to discard so quickly, given that it is a better fit for the early flight shenanigans and no worse a fit for the final destination.


China also lead the search, often conducting its searches outside the proscribed area and occasionally posting radar/sonar images of "debris" in the early days. This could be diversionary, though it seems a little unnecessary in the context of everything else.

While I did comment earlier in the week that a section of wing could quite happily float on the surface of the sea, this has floated along for 18 months in the Indian Ocean through a season that's included two Category 5 tropical storms. I don't really know how a section of aircraft wing is going to survive on such choppy seas - but either it did, or it has been put there.
 
Famine
particularly the part where any method one could use to track the plane was turned off, one by one, except the brand new one INMARSAT hadn't told anyone about.
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I think you might be throwing a red herring in there; the INMARSAT system was part of the known time-fix system for ACARS, it was never intended to be used as a positional tool. ACARS ceased to provide any data (and all the reasons you suggest for that are possible) but the timing ping remained. The reason INMARSAT hadn't told anybody they could produce a rough positional arc from the time-ping was that they couldn't, at least not until they figured out how to do it as part of the MH370 search.

Famine
The last radar sighting of the plane had it going towards a known radar deadzone corridor - roughly in the direction of north-west China.
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Or south, down towards Australia. As you noted, we have the about the same amount of evidence for MH360 heading south as we do north.
 
TenEightyOne
I think you might be throwing a red herring in there; the INMARSAT system was part of the known time-fix system for ACARS, it was never intended to be used as a positional tool. ACARS ceased to provide any data (and all the reasons you suggest for that are possible) but the timing ping remained. The reason INMARSAT hadn't told anybody they could produce a rough positional arc from the time-ping was that they couldn't, at least not until they figured out how to do it as part of the MH370 search.
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Nevertheless, in was a communication system from plane to ground that nobody knew about (least of all Malaysia Air)

TenEightyOne
Or south, down towards Australia. As you noted, we have the about the same amount of evidence for MH360 heading south as we do north.
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Not the last radar contact, no.
 
Famine
Not the last radar contact, no.
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I thought that this was the last radar contact position?


malaysia-airlines-flight-missing-thailand-asia-peninsula.png
 
I think that's what Famine meant - the last known locations of the plane have it heading North, not South...
 
And would you say that this west-north-westerly heading was more towards the northern INMARSAT track or the southern one?

View attachment 130695

I mean, personally I think that the northerly course correction from west-south-west to west-north-west heads more towards the northern track...
 
Famine
And would you say that this west-north-westerly heading was more towards the northern INMARSAT track or the southern one?

View attachment 130695

I mean, personally I think that the northerly course correction from west-south-west to west-north-west heads more towards the northern track...
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Given that the aircraft's final time-check was on the black arc in the following picture I'd say it was academic. I wouldn't have been surprised to see the aircraft heading to China given that it was flying to Beijing. As it is it turned away from that track and, on the radar posits, could have gone north or south. INMARSAT tell us it went south to somewhere on the final arc.

1280px-Reunion_debris_compared_to_MH370_flight_paths_and_underwater_search_area.png
 

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