Michael Jackson dies

  • Thread starter Famine
  • 374 comments
  • 26,202 views
Having watched all four hours now, there's not a doubt in my mind that Jackson is guilty of being a pedophile. Also, I completely understand why it took both of the victims so long to come forward. When something like that happens to you at such a young age and by such a high profile person, it's understandable why they'd keep quiet.
 
It never really went away, but it should be noted that she fully retracted these comments later on. That leaves one free to choose whether she was telling the truth during this video or during her retraction of these statements.



I'll note that I posted that since it was relevant to the current discussion. I've been secretly following along with with this thread lately. I don't have an opinion on MJ either way. I don't listen to his music, I know very little about his life, and I have not yet seen the documentary people are mentioning.
 
@Joey D How doubtful were you beforehand?

Before watching the documentary, I didn't really have a strong opinion one way or another. But since he did beat the case, there was some doubt of his guilt. All though, I'll admit I didn't really follow the case too closely when it first came up so I wasn't really sure what was said in it. Leaving Neverland really laid it all out there and made a compelling case that Jackson is, indeed, a pedophile.
 
I'll note that I posted that since it was relevant to the current discussion.

Quite, I was really referring to the "resurfaced" claim, despite that article's implication that the clip was somehow forgotten or buried it's been doing the rounds since the court cases.

since he did beat the case, there was some doubt of his guilt

That's the primary problem for me. I can see how he could beat the court case of course, but it does introduce that legally-compelling doubt. I have no other doubt though.
 
Before watching the documentary, I didn't really have a strong opinion one way or another. But since he did beat the case, there was some doubt of his guilt. All though, I'll admit I didn't really follow the case too closely when it first came up so I wasn't really sure what was said in it. Leaving Neverland really laid it all out there and made a compelling case that Jackson is, indeed, a pedophile.
Beat the case? You mean pay the victim a lot of money to go away? That is not beating anything.
 
Beat the case? You mean pay the victim a lot of money to go away? That is not beating anything.

He went to trial and was found "not guilty". The paying off the victim was before that. I didn't watch the trial though, so I'm not entirely sure what was said during it and what testimony was offered up outside the two they mentioned in the documentary. In the eyes of the justice system though, he beat the case.
 
'Leaving Neverland' is not so much an attack on Michael Jackson (he is dead, after all) or his estate (though they do undoubtedly stand to lose significantly if/when they are ever found to be complicit in any abuse), but is an exposé of the nature and impact of child abuse, how abuse can occur when 'hidden in plain sight', how abuse can be/is often not interpreted as abuse (and could more accurately be called 'child sexual seduction', as Oprah Winfrey put it) and how money and celebrity can give people the opportunity and power for abuse to occur and to even withstand legal scrutiny. Despite his death nearly ten years ago, Michael Jackson could yet prove to be a watershed case.

It is also perhaps a wake-up call to the very nature of celebrity and fame itself - it is undoubtedly true that a vast number of people are willing to turn a blind eye to the possibility of a celebrity being capable of abuse simply because they enjoy/respect their work, or have convinced themselves that they 'know' an artist because of their public persona. What is clear from several very high profile cases recently, notably Bill Cosby, Jimmy Savile and Michael Jackson, is that some (if not most) famous people are very careful to present a persona to the public that is both likable/lovable, while keeping other aspects of their lives (and personalities) completely hidden. Unfortunately, this has had the effect of creating vast legions of fans who are all too willing to be apologists for their favourite artists/performers because they, too, have been seduced into believing that they can do no wrong.

It's weird to think that so many people don't seem to be able to even consider the possibility that a celebrity is not capable of heinous acts, simply on the basis that their carefully crafted pubic image seems to contradict such an idea. Jackson may well have finally shattered that dangerous myth.
 
Last edited:
'Leaving Neverland' is not so much an attack on Michael Jackson (he is dead, after all) or his estate (though they do undoubtedly stand to lose significantly if/when they are ever found to be complicit in any abuse), but is an exposé of the nature and impact of child abuse, how abuse can occur when 'hidden in plain sight', how abuse can be/is often not experiences as abuse (and could more accurately be called 'child sexual seduction', as Oprah Winfrey put it) and how money and celebrity can give people the opportunity and power for abuse to occur and to even withstand legal scrutiny. Despite his death nearly ten years ago, Michael Jackson could yet prove to be a watershed case.

One thing in the documentary really stood out to me, it was when the Australian chap was describing having vision of Micheal abusing his son the way he was abused, he said (along the lines of); "I could see Micheal doing to him these acts..." but when talking about what Micheal did to him he always described it as "what me and Micheal did together" it really stood out over the 3 hours or whatever it was.
I hope that this program helps illuminate the incredible and debilitating impact that child abuse has not only on a child but as an adult.
 
Robson, Safechuck and any one else who testified on behalf of Jackson in the past are at risk of being charged with perjury - that alone explains why some may never change their story, but it also proves that those who have changed their testimony are extremely brave and clearly motivated by something beyond any possible personal gain.

I think given that Robson and Safechuck met Michael and began being influenced by him at very early ages (looks like 9 and 5), that they aren't at much risk of being charged with perjury. I'd fully expect them to be able to protected as having been under duress, even potentially if the perjury happened while they were adults (I don't happen know whether that's the case).
 
He went to trial and was found "not guilty". The paying off the victim was before that. I didn't watch the trial though, so I'm not entirely sure what was said during it and what testimony was offered up outside the two they mentioned in the documentary. In the eyes of the justice system though, he beat the case.
Crossed wires. You mean the court case in '05. I was referring to '93.
 
Just saw this which casts doubts but will watch the full 4 hours soon I guess:

*LANGUAGE WARNING*



In opposition to the video posted above:

- It was C4 that aired it not BBC4
- The cuts were to meet the time slot of 4 hours on an advertising channel
 
Last edited:
If you really want to be disturbed then you should see Bubbles Burst* by Claypool Delirium. Sean Lennon was, of course, in Moonwalker when he was 13. He hasn't made any allegations that I'm aware of but he's clearly made some very specific artistic choices in this video. Noel Fielding's character... bloody hell :)



* One could write a whole essay analysing that title


Wow. And not in a good way...


:ill:
I was thinking about this song last night, and revisited this thread to find the video - still creeps me out a lot!

Funnily enough, though - I accidentally cut and paste the YT link into a work document just now - glad I noticed it, because otherwise some of the Uni's top brass might have got a weird surprise when they read their emails this afternoon :lol:
 

Latest Posts

Back