Middle-range gaming rig, bit more pricey than anticipated

[Seismica]

So i've been wanting to build a gaming rig for a number of years now. My laptop is on it's way out and can't play 5 year old games on low settings higher than 30fps (Thanks again for the engine update in counter strike source valve, made it completely unplayable for me).

So i've done my research and picked out a number of components that I want. The PC will be for gaming and 3D CAD mainly, so graphics are important (Though I don't mind playing the newest games on low settings), but I want some futureproofing, hence the 2500k. Here is what I've picked out so far:

Intel i5 2500k SandyBridge (The base for my system and the only component set in stone. Intend to overclock to 4.2GHz or higher) ~£155
Asus P8Z68-V LX Intel Z68 Socket 1155 Motherboard ~£80
2x4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 RAM ~£40
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 Vapor-x GPU ~£135
Coolermaster Elite 430 case ~£40
Antec 650W modular PSU ~£70
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit ~£70

Total: ~£590

Now when I add cooling, DVD drive(s), HDD and other miscellaneous things, the total easily exceeds £700, when I only budgeted for £500 for my mid-range system I kept hearing from many sources how building your own PC is cheap and you can get a good rig for £300, but i've seen Dell XPS machines go for £650 that have similar or better specs than this. Can anybody help me and my expensive tastes reduce the cost of this rig without drastically reducing the spec?

 

[Terronium-12]

Here are some changes I'd make:

Coolermaster GX-550 - £50
Corsair XMS3 8GB - £35
Antec VSK-1000 - £34
Gigabyte GA-Z68-D3-B3 - £75
XFX 6850 XXX - £120

- Total (with your mandated choices) £539

I can likely do better but Scan is just a bit more expensive that I thought it'd be, and I'm bit tired so the PSU suggestion might be off. Although if I remember correctly a 6850 only requires something along the lines of 40A and that PSU has 44A.

 

[Casio]

Here are some changes I'd make:

Coolermaster GX-550 - £50
Corsair XMS3 8GB - £35
Antec VSK-1000 - £34
Gigabyte GA-Z68-D3-B3 - £75
XFX 6850 XXX - £120

- Total (with your mandated choices) £539

I can likely do better but Scan is just a bit more expensive that I thought it'd be, and I'm bit tired so the PSU suggestion might be off. Although if I remember correctly a 6850 only requires something along the lines of 40A and that PSU has 44A.

Not a bad selection. I also want to add I had a GX-550 and it's a great PSU for the price. Ran Crossfire'd 5770s (Which recommend 600w), without a sweat.

 

[Robin]

Well you could trim the fat by getting a simpler case for the mean time or using and old one. Also if your a student I think you can get Windows 7 for £30.

Its mainly because UK VAT has gone up to 20%, before the build would have been cheaper.

 

[Seismica]

Here are some changes I'd make:

Coolermaster GX-550 - £50
Corsair XMS3 8GB - £35
Antec VSK-1000 - £34
Gigabyte GA-Z68-D3-B3 - £75
XFX 6850 XXX - £120

- Total (with your mandated choices) £539

I can likely do better but Scan is just a bit more expensive that I thought it'd be, and I'm bit tired so the PSU suggestion might be off. Although if I remember correctly a 6850 only requires something along the lines of 40A and that PSU has 44A.

It does reduce the cost quite a bit, that case seems better.

Firstly, how important is RAM speed? is 1600MHz worth the extra cost compared to 1333MHz? Secondly, What is the difference between the different branded Radeon graphics cards (Sapphire, xfx etc.). Also, i'll be using onboard sound most likely, so does this influence my choice of motherboard or is it better to get a cheap motherboard with a cheap dedicated sound card?

Finally, the PSU is probably the main thing i'm unsure of. I have been told to get the best one I can afford, but I don't even know where to start with it, there are too many to choose from I'm worried i'm going to do something stupid and get one which is the wrong size for the case.

Well you could trim the fat by getting a simpler case for the mean time or using and old one. Also if your a student I think you can get Windows 7 for £30.

Its mainly because UK VAT has gone up to 20%, before the build would have been cheaper.

I don't have any old cases to use Windows 7 for £30? I know I can get cheap upgrades from XP/Vista to 7, but I didn't know I could get a new copy for that much Any idea where to get that?

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

To be honest, at those speeds, you will have more hard dive caused lag than RAM lag. RAM at 1333mhz is not bad at all, as I am running it with the same processor. You can always OC 1333 to 1600 in the BIOS. Also, for the motherboard, you could try this:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-p8p67-le-rev30-intel-p67-s-1155-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-raid-sata-pcie-20-(x16)-atx

You don't really need a Z68 unless you have an SSD, or you are an extreme overclocker, since it features Intel's Smart Response and really high OC settings.

As for video card manufacturers, there isn't much of a difference, just look at their reviews. I got the cheapest 6770 off Newegg and it runs MW2 and OC's like a BAWS. TL;DR, just read the reviews and you should be fine.

Soundcard? LOL. Unless you're a professional artist/ producer or a professional gamer, you definitely won't need one, unlike several years ago. The motherboard stuff has gotten almost on par with the ones available today, causing them to go obsolete.

And a PSU, just go with a respectable manufacturer. That's the only thing I can say. It's really something that works by chance. Antec is great, so are a few others like SeaSonic, Corsair etc.

Basically, you need to cut down on things you don't need and get the things you need.

 

[Seismica]

To be honest, at those speeds, you will have more hard dive caused lag than RAM lag. RAM at 1333mhz is not bad at all, as I am running it with the same processor. You can always OC 1333 to 1600 in the BIOS. Also, for the motherboard, you could try this:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-p8p67-le-rev30-intel-p67-s-1155-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-raid-sata-pcie-20-(x16)-atx

You don't really need a Z68 unless you have an SSD, or you are an extreme overclocker, since it features Intel's Smart Response and really high OC settings.

As for video card manufacturers, there isn't much of a difference, just look at their reviews. I got the cheapest 6770 off Newegg and it runs MW2 and OC's like a BAWS. TL;DR, just read the reviews and you should be fine.

Soundcard? LOL. Unless you're a professional artist/ producer or a professional gamer, you definitely won't need one, unlike several years ago. The motherboard stuff has gotten almost on par with the ones available today, causing them to go obsolete.

And a PSU, just go with a respectable manufacturer. That's the only thing I can say. It's really something that works by chance. Antec is great, so are a few others like SeaSonic, Corsair etc.

Basically, you need to cut down on things you don't need and get the things you need.

A Z68 gives more possibility for upgrades in the future I think. I will be wanting an SSD at some point (Just not yet as I can't afford it). Besides, they're at the same pricepoint and with the Z68 you get slightly more for your money.

So I won't be needing a soundcard then

 

[Terronium-12]

Firstly, how important is RAM speed? is 1600MHz worth the extra cost compared to 1333MHz?

You can get the job done with 1333 DIMM's. The main advantage of high-speed RAM is the FSB (QPI in this case); faster RAM = higher asynchronous QPI speeds.

Secondly, What is the difference between the different branded Radeon graphics cards (Sapphire, xfx etc.).

Packaged software, onboard features (EyeFinity capability to name one), warranty, and customer service mostly.

Also, i'll be using onboard sound most likely, so does this influence my choice of motherboard or is it better to get a cheap motherboard with a cheap dedicated sound card?

Onboard sound has come a long way since the 90's and early 2000's. Short answer is you'll be perfectly fine with onboard.

Finally, the PSU is probably the main thing i'm unsure of. I have been told to get the best one I can afford, but I don't even know where to start with it, there are too many to choose from I'm worried i'm going to do something stupid and get one which is the wrong size for the case.

That's typically good advice (advice I give all the time) but when you're budgeting everything you go for the best you can afford without compromising everything else; there's a Corsair GS600 you could opt for if you want a bit of additional headroom. I think it was 62 Quid (Pounds?). Basic analogy is if you've never heard of it, avoid it. When in doubt...ask.

 

[Seismica]

You can get the job done with 1333 DIMM's. The main advantage of high-speed RAM is the FSB (QPI in this case); faster RAM = higher asynchronous QPI speeds.

Is it worth the extra £5 or so to get the faster RAM? I heard the Motherboard can bottleneck the RAM speed too, could that be a problem at this sort of price range?

Packaged software, onboard features (EyeFinity capability to name one), warranty, and customer service mostly.

I think I will probably stick with Sapphire then as I have heard very good things about them (Unless the cost is too high, but £5-10 is ok).

Onboard sound has come a long way since the 90's and early 2000's. Short answer is you'll be perfectly fine with onboard.

That's what I thought When I was looking at headphones/headsets I found out that they are the bottleneck for sound quality most of the time, and after that it's the sound file itself, so i'll stick with onboard (I can always upgrade if I need to and it can't be any worse than my laptop)

That's typically good advice (advice I give all the time) but when you're budgeting everything you go for the best you can afford without compromising everything else; there's a Corsair GS600 you could opt for if you want a bit of additional headroom. I think it was 62 Quid (Pounds?). Basic analogy is if you've never heard of it, avoid it. When in doubt...ask.

What is the difference between Modular and Non-modular? I think i've budgeted up to £80 for the PSU anyway, as long as it is reliable and has enough connectors for all my components and more (Incase of upgrades) then i'm good. I don't know the difference between Watts, Amps, Volts etc. (Despite doing an Electrical Principles modules last year at uni) so I really have no clue when it comes to this.

 

[bergauk]

Modular = removable cables. Basically you just plug the cables that you need into the backside of the PSU, and plug the other end into your components. Non-Modular = a mess of cables, only half of which you'll need.

 

[Terronium-12]

Is it worth the extra £5 or so to get the faster RAM? I heard the Motherboard can bottleneck the RAM speed too, could that be a problem at this sort of price range?

That's more to do with the way the BIOS is written, what company wrote it, and it's chipset. With the D3 you'd be well within your targeted range. However, if you want to go with the ASUS board as American Megatrends tends to have better BIOS functionality, then go for it. Just as below...you win either way.

I think I will probably stick with Sapphire then as I have heard very good things about them (Unless the cost is too high, but £5-10 is ok).

XFX is great too, but for such a small savings...you win either way.

What is the difference between Modular and Non-modular? I think i've budgeted up to £80 for the PSU anyway, as long as it is reliable and has enough connectors for all my components and more (Incase of upgrades) then i'm good. I don't know the difference between Watts, Amps, Volts etc. (Despite doing an Electrical Principles modules last year at uni) so I really have no clue when it comes to this.

Use this to get a good roundabout of what you'll need. There's a margin of error (about 2-5%, possibly more) but it's fairly accurate.

eXtreme PSU calculator

 

[Ya Pops]

Apologies if I'm wrong, but aren't 5850's as good, if not slightly better than 6850's?

If so, you can find those for around £90. I'd link it, but I'm posting via ps3 and it's awkward

 

[Seismica]

That's more to do with the way the BIOS is written, what company wrote it, and it's chipset. With the D3 you'd be well within your targeted range. However, if you want to go with the ASUS board as American Megatrends tends to have better BIOS functionality, then go for it. Just as below...you win either way.

I think user-friendliness is important here as it will be my first computer build (I've messed around with parts before but never built a system from scratch).

I've recently discovered that i'm due a £525 bursary next month which I didn't know I was getting. That loosens the budget a little, but i'm still aiming for the same specs at the lowest price I can get it at.

Use this to get a good roundabout of what you'll need. There's a margin of error (about 2-5%, possibly more) but it's fairly accurate.

eXtreme PSU calculator

That looks uber confusing But it doesn't matter if I over-spec the PSU on purpose does it? Just so I don't have to worry about it?

EDIT: So if I was going to order all the components tomorrow, is there a comprehensive list of everything I would need?

So far I can think of:

Mobo
CPU
GPU
Memory
HDD
DVD Drive
Case
PSU
Operating System

I have yet to look into cooling properly, so any advice on how many fans/what size etc. I need would be appreciated.

Then there is building the thing, what equipment do I need to put it together properly and so I don't damage any of the components.

EDIT2: Just remembered, i'll need a wireless card too, doh!

 

[Terronium-12]

I think user-friendliness is important here as it will be my first computer build (I've messed around with parts before but never built a system from scratch).

User-friendliness? Again, either or...you win.

That looks uber confusing But it doesn't matter if I over-spec the PSU on purpose does it? Just so I don't have to worry about it?

Apologies. I'll run the numbers for you and post 'em.

*Crunches*

I overdid it just a tad (unrealistic voltage for a 4.4GHz OC, 2 SATA HDD's, 2 SSD's, and some other stuff) and it totaled out at a recommended 604W, with the minimum being 554W. Case in point you're absolutely fine.

EDIT: So if I was going to order all the components tomorrow, is there a comprehensive list of everything I would need?

So far I can think of:

Mobo
CPU
GPU
Memory
HDD
DVD Drive
Case
PSU
Operating System

I have yet to look into cooling properly, so any advice on how many fans/what size etc. I need would be appreciated.

I'm so far behind air cooling it really isn't even funny. The last great HSF I can recall of the top of my head is the Dark Rock Advanced.

Oh, since you're getting more than you thought you would, would you oppose to fitting either the HAF 922 or 932 into your budget?

922 - £77
932 - £100

Then there is building the thing, what equipment do I need to put it together properly and so I don't damage any of the components.

Screws (comes with the case), a Philips screwdriver, an anti-static wrist strap (can be entirely negated by simply keeping yourself grounded), and the wherewithal that something might go wrong*.

*Don't get alarmed. By that I mean it may not boot up right away (a common circumstance), or you may not have connected a cable somewhere. Just go over everything twice, and then twice more.

 

[Azuremen]

I know you are wanting that CPU setup, but quite a bit of money could be saved going for the AMD multi-core options and an AMD board. When looking at budgets in this range, I always feel AMD has a better value for for the money. Tomshardware is useful for figuring out these kind of things, I find anyhow.

 

[bergauk]

Just get an AMD A8 3850 and be done with it. You wont need a graphics card as it's already built in.

Or build a Phenom II X4 computer with a 5770 and be happy for quite a while.

 

[Terronium-12]

A8? Those are the Fusion APU's, no?

 

[Seismica]

User-friendliness? Again, either or...you win.

I'm sure i'll figure it out

Apologies. I'll run the numbers for you and post 'em.

*Crunches*

I overdid it just a tad (unrealistic voltage for a 4.4GHz OC, 2 SATA HDD's, 2 SSD's, and some other stuff) and it totaled out at a recommended 604W, with the minimum being 554W. Case in point you're absolutely fine.

So the one you recommended should be fine? That's good, saves a bit there.

I'm so far behind air cooling it really isn't even funny. The last great HSF I can recall of the top of my head is the Dark Rock Advanced.

Oh, since you're getting more than you thought you would, would you oppose to fitting either the HAF 922 or 932 into your budget?

922 - £77
932 - £100

Considering these come with fans included, they may be better value than the £40 cases I was looking at, as I would be paying up to another £40 for the fans. I would consider something in this price range, providing it is future proof for longer than the components inside it. Have cases changed significantly over the past 10 years or so (Other than in colour )?

Screws (comes with the case), a Philips screwdriver, an anti-static wrist strap (can be entirely negated by simply keeping yourself grounded), and the wherewithal that something might go wrong*.

*Don't get alarmed. By that I mean it may not boot up right away (a common circumstance), or you may not have connected a cable somewhere. Just go over everything twice, and then twice more.

Static was the one thing I had heard about but I wanted to make sure there was no other problems I should be wary of. I remember someone saying (It might've been on this forum actually) building a computer is very easy. The hard part is figuring out what is wrong when/if it doesn't boot .

I know you are wanting that CPU setup, but quite a bit of money could be saved going for the AMD multi-core options and an AMD board. When looking at budgets in this range, I always feel AMD has a better value for for the money. Tomshardware is useful for figuring out these kind of things, I find anyhow.

I did look into this, but I do believe the next generation of AMD processors has been repeatedly pushed back to the point that the Intel Sandybridge series (Especially the i5 2500k and i7 2600k) destroys anything AMD can throw at it for the same money and power consumption, especially if you're considering overclocking.

For a future build I may go AMD but for now i'll stick with what I know and what has been recommended, the 2500k and 2600k are probably the best on the market at the moment by a long shot (Or so i've heard).

 

[bergauk]

A8? Those are the Fusion APU's, no?

Indeed they are. They seem to be a fairly solid base to build upon.

I did look into this, but I do believe the next generation of AMD processors has been repeatedly pushed back to the point that the Intel Sandybridge series (Especially the i5 2500k and i7 2600k) destroys anything AMD can throw at it for the same money and power consumption, especially if you're considering overclocking.

For a future build I may go AMD but for now i'll stick with what I know and what has been recommended, the 2500k and 2600k are probably the best on the market at the moment by a long shot (Or so i've heard).

This article would like to have a word with you.
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Breaks-Frequency-Record-with-Upcoming-FX-Processor/

They got to 5GHz on Air cooling alone.

 

[eSZee]

Indeed they are. They seem to be a fairly solid base to build upon.


This article would like to have a word with you.
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Breaks-Frequency-Record-with-Upcoming-FX-Processor/

They got to 5GHz on Air cooling alone.

That is true. 5ghz on air using one of 20 some chips hand picked and binned by AMD for an AMD public even and at an AMD facility.
I would take it with a grain of salt. Current x4 phenoms can do 5ghz on air. Can you use it 24/7, of course not.

 

[Sharky.]

I know of a guy that runs a 2500K at 5.4 stable on air, so I don't see why Bulldozer wouldn't be capable of a stable 5.

 

[Robin]

I don't have any old cases to use Windows 7 for £30? I know I can get cheap upgrades from XP/Vista to 7, but I didn't know I could get a new copy for that much Any idea where to get that?

They did an offer a while back for the start of the uni year, I don't know if its something they do every year or a one off and there are certain conditions you need to meet. I didn't really look into it much so just have a search around.

You can also buy OEM versions from online retailers, they are the same only cheaper because they don't have tech support.

 

[Seismica]

This article would like to have a word with you.
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Breaks-Frequency-Record-with-Upcoming-FX-Processor/

They got to 5GHz on Air cooling alone.

Well, they're not on the market yet and I want to avoid any teething problems they have upon release. It's not worth the wait as I do not believe that they will be significantly cheaper than the Sandybridge CPUs on release. The i5 2500k is a tried and tested CPU. The next generation of intels is too far off aswell to consider that.

I want to get my build in a week or two when I get my bursary through, I highly doubt Bulldozer CPUs will be out by then.

 

[eSZee]

I know of a guy that runs a 2500K at 5.4 stable on air, so I don't see why Bulldozer wouldn't be capable of a stable 5.

You can't compare amd and intel like that, at least you couldn't in the past. Clock for clock intel has always been faster, IIRC. Many are hoping BD will change that but the constant delays(firings of the few techy higher-ups) have people worrying that either yields are bad or the performance isn't there.

 

[Seismica]

Thankyou for the advice everyone, it has been immensely helpful

I have decided on what I want, I just want a few pointers on if everything will be compatible and whether I will need cables to connect the various items (I assume thing come with cables - but I don't want to walk into a computer shop and ask for all of the cables I need, i'll feel like a complete idiot).

Anyway, here is the list (All prices include VAT):

Intel i5 2500k retail £155.99
Silverstone CPU cooler £19.16
Gigabyte Z68-D3-B3 Motherboard £68.39
1GB XFX Radeon HD 6850 £119.62
Antec 100 gaming case £38.39
3x Antec 120mm case fans £22.00 (Don't ask my how this came to £22.00, there is a 0.33p somewhere in the price)
2x4GB Corsair XMS3 RAM £38.39
620W Antec Modular PSU £58.79
1TB Western Digital HDD (6Gb/s) £40.79
Sony DVD drive £14.90
Edimax Wireless adaptor (n) £20.33

Total: £613.53 (I think this includes delivery).

Prices in the links may be higher because I went through today only on items like the CPU.

I decided to take Terronium's advice on the GPU and Motherboard as it occured to me that even if I bought the more expensive ones I wouldn't have noticed the difference as they are essentially the same architecture (After all, performance from my laptop can only go up ). I also took the Antec case because it came supplied with fans, and I don't want a bunch of LED lights like the Coolermasters tend to have.

All I need now is an operating system, but it's far too expensive at scan, as a student I should be able to get Home premium or professional under £50, any help here would be appreciated, all I can find is cheap Windows 7 upgrades, whereas I need a new copy (Preferably retail, but will take OEM).

EDIT: Not needed, I can do an upgrade as I have my Vista product key and an old recovery disc so I can just get the upgrade version which is cheap.

It's a little over my budget but I can't see how I would've got under £500 without seriously downgrading my CPU and GPU (Which would've been a false economy).

EDIT: I am ordering this today as half the components were on the today-only offer, which has saved at least £25 across the build.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That 2500k already comes with a heatsink that has similar if not better performance. You need a tower cooler to get a good enough improvement.

Don't use a WD green drive for your windows drive. They should be mainly used for storage or possibly an HTPC.

edit: The cooler is also for socket 1156, so it probably wouldn't work anyway. For the drives I would recommend the WD 750GB blue or 1GB black.

 

[nick09]

1156 coolers work with the 1155 mount. It's the same exact mount on a motherboard. Though that Silverstone is not good for a overclocking computer either. This is a better cooler. It's a good brand and a good heatsink a lot of people use.

 

[Seismica]

That 2500k already comes with a heatsink that has similar if not better performance. You need a tower cooler to get a good enough improvement.

Don't use a WD green drive for your windows drive. They should be mainly used for storage or possibly an HTPC.

edit: The cooler is also for socket 1156, so it probably wouldn't work anyway. For the drives I would recommend the WD 750GB blue or 1GB black.

I heard the i5 didn't come with any? I guess I must have got the retail mixed up with OEM (OEM was actually more on this offer)

Socket 1155 has the same mount as 1156. And why not use a WD green drive for windows? How much slower can it be? I assume it's faster than sata II which makes it faster than my current. I will change it if the benefit outweighs the cost, to your recommendation 👍

1156 coolers work with the 1155 mount. It's the same exact mount on a motherboard. Though that Silverstone is not good for a overclocking computer either. This is a better cooler. It's a good brand and a good heatsink a lot of people use.

I think I will change that then . I've already ordered it but i'm going to email changes and ring aswell. It isn't going to be processed until monday.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I heard the i5 didn't come with any? I guess I must have got the retail mixed up with OEM (OEM was actually more on this offer)

Socket 1155 has the same mount as 1156. And why not use a WD green drive for windows? How much slower can it be? I assume it's faster than sata II which makes it faster than my current.



I think I will change that then . I've already ordered it but i'm going to email changes and ring aswell. It isn't going to be processed until monday.

Yeah retail comes with a heatsink and fan. Their prices seem to fluctuate a lot as right now it's 8 pounds more than the OEM.

SATA II vs III doesn't make any difference for these types of HDDs since they can't really take advantage of the bandwidth. The green drives are set up for lower power consumption and not performance. I'm not completely sure but I believe they run at 5400RPM or at least are there part of the time. So you will have slower seek times. It will take it longer to get to data on the hard drive.

 

[nick09]

The green drives do run at 5400RPM. They just turn the motor off if it's in idle. So it results in less performance. A WD Blue(8MB to 16MB cache) drives most of the time have a 7200RPM speed motor or a 5400RPM motor. WD Black drives have larger cache's(32MB to 64MB cache) to transfer larger files faster to the motherboard with a 7200RPM motor. So it's like dumping larger amounts of dirt instead of using a small shovel.