MLB 2011 Preseason

[Villain]

The Orioles have made fantastic moves (as mentioned by Prosthetic), and the Yankees starting five is missing two pieces. Ridiculous offense will only get you so far. As a Dodgers fan, I will suggest that you get ready to be frustrated with Russell Martin. He tried too hard in LA, so you better believe he's going to try to play over his abilities in New York.

Sabathia and Hughes are fantastic pitchers. Burnett has shown that he can at least hang, but he's looked like a number 5 rather than the 2 they hoped for. Let's not forget that CC is going to opt out of the richest pitching contract in MLB history at the end of the season. Do you think that won't be a distraction in New York? If you think Prior and Colon will be able to the void at 4 and 5 then I want the same drugs you're on!

Don't get me wrong, the Yankees will win tons of games, but in a division like that it's near impossible to keep pace without a solid starting 5. I predict that Pettitte's retirement will hurt more than some people might expect.

 

[spiker]

I'm not saying the O's are going to be a powerhouse the fact is they have a good offense in a division where the parks are small. All I'm saying is that I think they can be a .500 team.

The O's won 66 games last year. It's a tall order to say that they're going to get to .500 considering they have to play 72 games against the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, and Blue Jays. All of those teams were .500+ teams last season and the O's were 24-48 vs the AL East. They lost 2 out of every 3 games against a divisional opponent! Those teams just feasted on Baltimore.

You want to know what teams played better in their own division than Baltimore did last year? Everyone except Seattle, who only won 30% of their divisional games. 28 teams. That's right - Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cleveland, Washington, and Arizona all played better in their own divisions than the Orioles. The Pirates only won 57 games all season, too, I might add.

So if that's your opinion, than it's your opinion, and you're in the extreme minority. I think you're a little naive if you think the O's can add 15 more wins with their AAA rotation, a few questionable sluggers, some unproven potential, and a division that's going to absolutely maul them. There's a reason why the guys who play in Baltimore play in Baltimore, you feel me?

As for the Giants, your original statement was that they overachieved and their is no way they can do it again. Which is ridiculous to say the least, considering how much they improved since the first half of last season.

I didn't say that. Austin343 did. Check your facts on page 1 of this thread.

But now that you mention it, I do feel that they over-performed a little in 2010.

 

[spiker]

The Orioles have made fantastic moves (as mentioned by Prosthetic), and the Yankees starting five is missing two pieces. Ridiculous offense will only get you so far. As a Dodgers fan, I will suggest that you get ready to be frustrated with Russell Martin. He tried too hard in LA, so you better believe he's going to try to play over his abilities in New York.

Sabathia and Hughes are fantastic pitchers. Burnett has shown that he can at least hang, but he's looked like a number 5 rather than the 2 they hoped for. Let's not forget that CC is going to opt out of the richest pitching contract in MLB history at the end of the season. Do you think that won't be a distraction in New York? If you think Prior and Colon will be able to the void at 4 and 5 then I want the same drugs you're on!

Don't get me wrong, the Yankees will win tons of games, but in a division like that it's near impossible to keep pace without a solid starting 5. I predict that Pettitte's retirement will hurt more than some people might expect.

Their ridiculous offense got them all the way to the ALCS. They had the best run differential in baseball in 2010 at +166. Frankly, they could probably win the division with the O's minor league rotation.

Likely, what's going to happen is that they're going to hang tight in the mix until the trade deadline and go out and grab the best pitcher available for their playoff push. All they need is their 4 and 5 to gobble up innings and that's pretty easy to do when you've got 5+ runs of support every day.

 

[Villain]

You want to know what teams played better in their own division than Baltimore did last year? Everyone except Seattle, who only won 30% of their divisional games. 28 teams. That's right - Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cleveland, Washington, and Arizona all played better in their own divisions than the Orioles. The Pirates only won 57 games all season, too, I might add.

Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cleveland, Washington, and Arizona all have one thing in common and do you know what it is? They aren't in the AL East.

Also, you're correct in pointing out that the Orioles would have to improve on last season's performance significantly to finish above .500. That's not to say that it is impossible, or even unheard of in that division.

2007's 5th place finisher in the AL East did a little better in 2008.

Their ridiculous offense got them all the way to the ALCS. They had the best run differential in baseball in 2010 at +166. Frankly, they could probably win the division with the O's minor league rotation.

Likely, what's going to happen is that they're going to hang tight in the mix until the trade deadline and go out and grab the best pitcher available for their playoff push. All they need is their 4 and 5 to gobble up innings and that's pretty easy to do when you've got 5+ runs of support every day.

It's hard to have two inning-eaters at the 4 & 5 when the 40-man and NRI rosters don't have any to spare.

Do you really think the Yankees will get Buerle at the deadline (assuming that he's made available)? This season isn't like recent ones. There isn't a pair like Lee, Halladay, or Oswalt running out of time on their contracts. That's a losing plan, my friend.

 

[Ken]

What?! The Yankees rotation is not great, but it's certainly not worse than the Orioles. They've got CC, Burnett, and Phil Hughes. I know Burnett wasn't sharp last year, but his career numbers are pretty good, so I'd look for him to rebound in 2011. Hughes' stuff was good enough to earn him 18 wins in 2010.

Furthermore, the Yankees lineup would put up good offensive numbers in any stadium. It just helps them that they play in a bandbox. You're insane if you think otherwise.

The Yankees is question is huge question for me, being a HUGE YANKEE fan. Burnett could be Cliff Lee-like at times, but then he could be one the worst as well. Phil Hughes is the same. CC, is well CC. Losing Vasquez was a loss in my book. As far as the bullpen, Rivera isn't in his prime, but that's okay. His downward spiral is still better than anyone's prime. Picking up Soriano was a waste of money, IMO. I think that they should have gone after a decent #4 or #5 starter. Or done better at shopping for a bat then Martin.

Offense: Geesh. Allot of hall of famers, but nothing in the last couple of years. Granderson isn't the man he was in Detriot. Rodriguez is belting out like the Rodriguez of old. Jeter best years are behind him, and has always been a AVG. slugger. Teixeira is a GOD at first, but their isn't enough power of consistency to be a contender for the World Series this year. Red Sox are the power in the East, which makes me suicidal just typing. The Rays are never to left out. Also, speaking of the Orioles, don't count them out this year. I feel that they have made some good moves, IE Derek Lee.

 

[spiker]

Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cleveland, Washington, and Arizona all have one thing in common and do you know what it is? They aren't in the AL East.

Also, you're correct in pointing out that the Orioles would have to improve on last season's performance significantly to finish above .500. That's not to say that it is impossible, or even unheard of in that division.

2007's 5th place finisher in the AL East did a little better in 2008.

My point was to show what the O's are up against. All of those teams are the doormats of their respective divisions. The O's were either almost the worst of all of the doormats or in the worst division when it comes to being a doormat. Either way you you want to look at it, you can't disagree that it's not good for Baltimore.

It's hard to have two inning-eaters at the 4 & 5 when the 40-man and NRI rosters don't have any to spare.

Do you really think the Yankees will get Buerle at the deadline (assuming that he's made available)? This season isn't like recent ones. There isn't a pair like Lee, Halladay, or Oswalt running out of time on their contracts. That's a losing plan, my friend.

Why not? They do it ever year and they've only missed the playoffs once since MLB expanded to a Wild Card format in 1995. Just so happens that that one year was 2008. So once in about every 20 years the Yankees don't make the playoffs because some organization gets about 20 first round draft picks and is actually able to rise up and compete for a few years. Baltimore is not stacked with young first round draft picks like the Rays were in 2008. They have guys like Mark Reynolds who hit .198 in 2010.

If you want, here's MLB Trade Rumor's list of Top 10 pitchers projected to be eligible at the 2011 dead line:

Chad Billingsly
Joe Blanton
Mark Beuhrle
Fausto Carmona
John Danks
Justin Masterson
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Jonathan Papelbon
Ervin Santana
Jared Weaver

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-could-move-at-the-2011-trade-deadline#page/1

That's a pretty nice list for depth in a rotation. You can eliminate the two Red Sox but count on both of the Indians to be available. Depending on what the playoff race looks like in July, any of those guys would look pretty good in pin stripes as well - especially the two Angels.

 

[spiker]

The Yankees is question is huge question for me, being a HUGE YANKEE fan. Burnett could be Cliff Lee-like at times, but then he could be one the worst as well. Phil Hughes is the same. CC, is well CC. Losing Vasquez was a loss in my book. As far as the bullpen, Rivera isn't in his prime, but that's okay. His downward spiral is still better than anyone's prime. Picking up Soriano was a waste of money, IMO. I think that they should have gone after a decent #4 or #5 starter. Or done better at shopping for a bat then Martin.

I will definitely agree with you 100% on the bolded. I think even Brian Cashman put the signing on ownership, which is pretty funny.

Offense: Geesh. Allot of hall of famers, but nothing in the last couple of years. Granderson isn't the man he was in Detriot. Rodriguez is belting out like the Rodriguez of old. Jeter best years are behind him, and has always been a AVG. slugger. Teixeira is a GOD at first, but their isn't enough power of consistency to be a contender for the World Series this year. Red Sox are the power in the East, which makes me suicidal just typing. The Rays are never to left out. Also, speaking of the Orioles, don't count them out this year. I feel that they have made some good moves, IE Derek Lee.

Top to bottom, that lineup is still one of the top lineups in baseball. AFAIK, the Yankees didn't lose anyone and they scored the most runs in 2010 so yeah...

I don't know what all this talk is about Jeter not having much pop. The guy has always been a contact hitter.

Also, being a Chicagoan, I can tell you that Derek Lee is just about washed up. He was hitting poorly last year because of a nagging wrist injury. Check it out. That was just yesterday. You need those wrists to hit. Which reminds me, Andy MacPhail is running the show in Baltimore. Do you trust former Cubs front office people?

 

[Villain]

Those Angels/Indians pitchers are the best bets, and I'd value Buerle the highest (even though I still doubt they'd give him for anything less than a king's ransom in prospects). Honestly though, for any of these trades to happen, you'd need the teams to be in rebuild-mode. Even if the Angels are riding third place, what would the point of trading young starters be? The Yankees couldn't give enough peices to make it worth their while. The ChiSox probably won't because IMHO they look damn good on paper. Barring injuries, I expect them in the playoffs. Carmona seems the most likely because the Indians seem to enjoy giving up their goods.

Regardless, the real point I was trying to make still stands: it's a losing plan. You can't bet on picking up a pitcher at the deadline, much less two! At that point it's already too late.

 

[spiker]

Regardless, the real point I was trying to make still stands: it's a losing plan. You can't bet on picking up a pitcher at the deadline, much less two! At that point it's already too late.

And my original point was the lineup that scored the most runs in MLB in 2010 is back and will keep them in the playoff hunt until good pitching becomes available!

 

[Villain]

This is where we agree to disagree

 

[Ken]

I will definitely agree with you 100% on the bolded. I think even Brian Cashman put the signing on ownership, which is pretty funny.



Top to bottom, that lineup is still one of the top lineups in baseball. AFAIK, the Yankees didn't lose anyone and they scored the most runs in 2010 so yeah...

I don't know what all this talk is about Jeter not having much pop. The guy has always been a contact hitter.

Jeter is losing that pop. Posada is losing that pop. Rodriguez is losing that pop. Cashman is losing his pop. Cano is IMO the one upside of aging and lacking lineup. They DO have one one the best offenses in the league, but will it hold up all season. Will that ability to see the ball that they have in the past hold up all year? The pitching is in question, the bullpen is in question, the offense is in question. This is a down year, and plan on seeing rebuilding soon. The Steinbrenner family isn't going to like this year, and really isn't going to like those Red Sux this year.

 

[spiker]

Jeter is losing that pop. Posada is losing that pop. Rodriguez is losing that pop. Cashman is losing his pop. Cano is IMO the one upside of aging and lacking lineup. They DO have one one the best offenses in the league, but will it hold up all season. Will that ability to see the ball that they have in the past hold up all year? The pitching is in question, the bullpen is in question, the offense is in question. This is a down year, and plan on seeing rebuilding soon. The Steinbrenner family isn't going to like this year, and really isn't going to like those Red Sux this year.

I wouldn't be too worried about Jeter or Rodriguez. Jeter is aging but it seems like he just didn't get that many hits to drop in last season. His "power figures" were still consistent with prior years - ie, similar doubles, triples, HRs, RBI, and even SBs. You say that Rodgriguez isn't hitting 50 HRs anymore so he's lost his pop? I know of a lot of teams that want a guy who can hit 30 HR and drive in 120 RBI every year. That is not bad at all. The White Sox have room in their lineup for a power hitting 3B if he's no good for the Yankees anymore.

I'll give you Posada. He's too close to being 40 and he's playing the wrong position to be an old man. Catcher is just about the only position where he fits into that lineup. Isn't this the year that Jesus Montero gets his chance? He's put up good numbers at all levels of the minors and he's only going to be 21 this year. 2011 is the perfect time to ease in Montero by having him split time with Posada.

LOL at the thought of Cashman "loosing his pop". You or I could run the Yankees. Cashman has a bank vault of money available to him. He threw as much money as he could at Cliff Lee but Lee ended up taking less to play in Phillie. I can't fault him for that. Plus, he's already distanced himself from the Soriano signing so if that deal turns out sour, he can always point out that ownership was the one who wanted the deal from the get-go. The Yankees front office is just fine, if you ask me.

 

[Prosthetic]

Hey Villian, what did you think of the trimmed up Sandoval? The kid looks ****ing amazing, less of Sumo wrestler and more of a linebacker. He couldn't swing worth **** last year right handed because of hip problems from all the weight. Just the year before he killed everyone from the right side.

 

[Villain]

It was pretty funny at Spring Training, we were right on the 3B line so we got to see him warming up. He made 2 fielding errors in warm-ups (including a funky-hop ground to the face) and then once the game was underway he made another error. He more than made up for that in his second AB (against a Dodgers minor leaguer--I forget who it was) when he ripped a home-run to right-center. I can't tell you what side he was hitting from, but I'd imagine he was pulling from the left side against a righty (I don't think the Dodgers put up a LHP in the game).

As far as how he physically looked... He's still a big boy! He may have slimmed that belly but his got those massive shoulders and a broad chest. By for the broadest player we say that weekend. The only players we saw to rival his size were maybe Thames and Hector Gimenez (forgive spelling, LAD Minor-league c/1b).

 

[Prosthetic]

Yeah, that's what happens when you lift. I am built the same way except I weigh a lot less. Errors especially for infielders are extremely common in ST because of the way the fields plays. Lots of awkward bounces off the rough ground.

 

[Ken]

I wouldn't be too worried about Jeter or Rodriguez. Jeter is aging but it seems like he just didn't get that many hits to drop in last season. His "power figures" were still consistent with prior years - ie, similar doubles, triples, HRs, RBI, and even SBs. You say that Rodgriguez isn't hitting 50 HRs anymore so he's lost his pop? I know of a lot of teams that want a guy who can hit 30 HR and drive in 120 RBI every year. That is not bad at all. The White Sox have room in their lineup for a power hitting 3B if he's no good for the Yankees anymore.

I'll give you Posada. He's too close to being 40 and he's playing the wrong position to be an old man. Catcher is just about the only position where he fits into that lineup. Isn't this the year that Jesus Montero gets his chance? He's put up good numbers at all levels of the minors and he's only going to be 21 this year. 2011 is the perfect time to ease in Montero by having him split time with Posada.

LOL at the thought of Cashman "loosing his pop". You or I could run the Yankees. Cashman has a bank vault of money available to him. He threw as much money as he could at Cliff Lee but Lee ended up taking less to play in Phillie. I can't fault him for that. Plus, he's already distanced himself from the Soriano signing so if that deal turns out sour, he can always point out that ownership was the one who wanted the deal from the get-go. The Yankees front office is just fine, if you ask me.

Jeter worries me because is this a start of the downward spiral? Rodriguez worries me, but because he now "only" hits 30 hrs, but of his consistency. He gets real hot, then real cold. IMO.

I have a feeling that Jesus will get his chance. With this last year for the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees, if he doesn't it's a sham!!! We need more of this to beat the Red Sux:

Cashman is turning out to be one the worst GM's in our history!! Why didn't the Yanks pull in any large name free agents this year? Besides re-signing Yankee life-timers like Jeter or Rivera. Even the way that he treated a future hall of famer in Jeter, was horrible. Sabathia wants to leave, Burnett isn't happy, (at least his efforts aren't). I think that it's time to move on without Cashman and put a Steinbrenner back in that spot. Or least somebody who bleeds Yankee blue.

@Prosthetic: I think that this is Kung Fu Panda real break out year! I am expecting real big numbers this year.

 

[Villain]

@Prosthetic: I think that this is Kung Fu Panda real break out year! I am expecting real big numbers this year.

I know you weren't talking to me, but honestly I don't think he'll breakout until he finds himself on an AL squad. That dude just isn't built for the NL if you ask me. He's under team control until 2015, but starts his arb-years in 2012. That means he'll be due for a raise and if he does, in fact, break out this year...

A lot of things could happen, and this is just me speculating, but imagine if the Giants get nailed by injuries or something. He could make an attractive chip in a rebuild. If you wanted to dump Zito's contract to an AL team (the Yankees looking for that pitcher?), the other team might want Sandoval to even it out. Perfect deal for the Yankees: starting pitcher and the Kung Fu Panda. The money wouldn't bother them. He's the perfect DH (big bodied switch hitter with power!) who can slot into corner infield and catching duties when you need to rest people.

The question becomes, what would the Giants get in return?




PS- All of this came out of my head as I was typing.

 

[Ken]

I think it's possible for his break out year to come in Giants uniform. AT&T park is one of the smaller fields in the league. It's feasible. I do agree that he would fit better as a DH or at least in an AL jersey. Maybe not the Yanks, I see him going more to the AL West for some reason. Not sure why though. Maybe because Cashman would be scared of signing a good player. I think that he would be a good fit for a rebuilding Angels team. What in return, I think prospects.

I could see the rebuilding soon honestly. I can imagine Brian Sabean trying to play with the roster quite a bit to get back to the big game. I also think Zito's contract will be dumped and soon. With Lincecum, Sanchez, and Cain already there. Zito is just a black-hole in the payroll. I also don't see the Sandoval love that would keep him in SF. Just my thoughts on the SF team.

 

[Villain]

I think it's possible for his break out year to come in Giants uniform. AT&T park is one of the smaller fields in the league. It's feasible. I do agree that he would fit better as a DH or at least in an AL jersey. Maybe not the Yanks, I see him going more to the AL West for some reason. Not sure why though. Maybe because Cashman would be scared of signing a good player. I think that he would be a good fit for a rebuilding Angels team. What in return, I think prospects.

You had me up until that last line. Why a rebuilding team would give up prospects (unless they have extra prospects position blocked at the bigs) is beyond me. Also, they don't need to worry about signing him just yet! He won't hit free agency until 2015.

I could see the rebuilding soon honestly. I can imagine Brian Sabean trying to play with the roster quite a bit to get back to the big game. I also think Zito's contract will be dumped and soon. With Lincecum, Sanchez, and Cain already there. Zito is just a black-hole in the payroll. I also don't see the Sandoval love that would keep him in SF. Just my thoughts on the SF team.

Agree.

 

[Ken]

You had me up until that last line. Why a rebuilding team would give up prospects (unless they have extra prospects position blocked at the bigs) is beyond me. Also, they don't need to worry about signing him just yet! He won't hit free agency until 2015.

They're in need of a team now. Los Angeles doesn't like to deal loser for long. Also, how many players from that team come from the farm system? Also, I am saying if Sandoval is put on the block this year. By 2015, god knows who would need them. The Royals could be the best team in baseball. DOUBTFUL!!!

Just out of curiosity, I know it's early, but who's your picks to make all the way this year? I always like to see if my spring training picks end up being any thing of what I thought.

 

[Villain]

But they aren't in LA, they're in Anaheim!!

___NL___
West: Dodgers (duh)
Central: Brewers
East: Philllies
WC: Reds or Rockies

___AL___
West: Texas
Central: Chicago
East: Boston
WC: Minnesota


EDIT: I just noticed that I did NL by team name and AL by city. That's weird.

 

[Ken]

Touche. I still have no idea about the whole "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" thing.

Why am I not surprised about the Dodgers!!!

___NL___
West: Giants
Central: Cardinals
East: Philllies
WC: Brewers

___AL___
West: Rangers
Central: Twins
East: Red Sux
WC: Yankees (duh)

Biggest Disappointments:

NL: Reds
AL: A's

 

[Prosthetic]

Pablo is fine in the NL. And the Giants aren't getting rid of Zito because he is much better then people make him out to be. The dude goes out there every 5th day and eats the hell out of innings. He is a good teammate and leaders. 4.0 ERA and 200 innings in the 5 slots is beautiful. As for Pablo, he is a much better defensive player then people make him out to be, and does really well at 3rd. He is much quicker then he looks and has one of the better arms in baseball from the left side.

No, he isn't going to be a 100 walks guy or a 30 steal guy. But this is a player that can hit for a high average from both sides of the plate while still having loads of power. He is a doubles machine. Hit bat speed is what hurt him the most, in 09' he feasted on anything above the waist. He couldn't hit that pitch at all because of his hip problem. And unlike a lot of players he lives off of hitting the breaking ball. He is literally Ichiro that is bigger, loads of more power and a better ability to drive in runs. He also walks more then Ichiro does.

But that's the thing, Pablo is 25. It takes a few years for more pitchers to get a better understanding of the strike zone, but its a little tougher in his case because he knows he can get good contact with stuff a foot off the plate. I love Posey but Sandoval has such a higher offensive ceiling. He hit .330 25HR and drove in 95 with such a terrible lineup in 09. He was alone on that team... He doesn't need protection but imagine with protection and healthy? I haven't even mention that he got divorced and fought for child rights throughout the entire season. He used to show up hours before other players to play ball with his daughter and he lost that last year. I'm not sure how it ended but he now has a new woman that is helping get him back on track.

Also Koios, AT&T is not a small ballpark at all. It is a pitchers park in many ways. The 24foot wall in right with the very thick bay air and wind coming in from that direction which is an almost constant every game. In fact the entire right side of the park is a dead area for all players not named Bonds. It's a little more friendly for right handed pull hitters but its still a place were home runs die. There is a reason why theirs been less then 20 right handed home runs going over the Willie Mays wall.

One less thing about the Panda... He is one of the few players to hit a ball to the right center arcade section. That is 400+ feet out plus going over the 24 feet wall.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5523875

Monster.

EDIT: Here is one my favorites in the last few years. Santana tried to hit him with a fastball but it went behind him and this what Pablo responded with.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=6111943

Breaking ball below the knees middle away and he launches it. That's strength.

 

[Villain]

Cardinals? Really? Without Wainwright? Carpenter on the verge of being traded? That's a bold pick, sir.

 

[Prosthetic]

Cardinals? Really? Without Wainwright? Carpenter on the verge of being traded? That's a bold pick, sir.

Normally I would agree with that but not many teams have a 3-4-5 of Pujols, Holliday and Rasmus. Those are some stud players with a pitching staff that is just now good and not great.

 

[JohnBM01]

If you want preseason baseball in primetime, ESPN2 has you fixed up. Considering it's ESPN... it's the Yankees and the Red Sox. Who knew! Anyhow, just another game to heat up the upcoming 2011 season of Major League Baseball.

I forgot to mention... that game is at the top of the hour.

 

[Villain]

The Dodgers had a nice come-from-behind victory today. Home Runs by 3 different players. Broxton, Kuo, and Guerrier also looked sharp

 

[spiker]

I'm just about ready for baseball to start.

 

[Ken]

Normally I would agree with that but not many teams have a 3-4-5 of Pujols, Holliday and Rasmus. Those are some stud players with a pitching staff that is just now good and not great.

With Carpenter back in action, the staff still isn't great, but it's enough to keep up with nearly any team. Your right about the 3-4-5 guys, and they have some potentially great prospects on the farm. IE, Miller, Garcia and Lynn. Freese has pretty good showing as well.

I'm just about ready for baseball to start.

Amen!!!

 

[Villain]

I'm just about ready for baseball to start.

I've been ready since about Mid-January!

In Spring Training news: Dodgers' 22-year-old pitching prospect Rubby De La Rosa threw 4 perfect innings against the Giants today. High 90s fastball (97-100+) with a devastating change up. He's like a right handed Kershaw.