Motorcycles in GT6?

[Feldynn]

If PD decided to add bikes I'd prefer they at least keep them separate from cars when it comes to racing, mostly because I don't ever remember seeing any actual racing series with cars and bikes on track at once (I could be wrong though, if I am please correct me ).

Though I would prefer if bikes got their own complete and separate game, before anyone gets upset let me explain why. The main reason is because I think a separate game would do much more justice to bikes and bike racing than simply trying to shoe-horn them into say GT6.

Realistically if bikes were added to GT6 what would you expect to get? I could see maybe a handful of bikes and a couple of motorcycle-specific tracks or alternate layouts for existing tracks if they're used as such in real life. You just have to look at how Karts, Nascar and Rallying are represented in GT5, sure it's "ok" to a point I guess but there's a whole lot more depth to the genres than we see or get in GT5 at least and I would expect the same to happen if bikes were added.

Imagine if you will a complete bike game built on say the GT6 platform, a similar game in many respects with a wide variety of vehicles spanning the different ages of motorcycles, including everything from classic / historic to modern, sports and super bikes, sidecar racing and all sorts. Done properly, like Gran Turismo but for bikes instead of cars.

Now THAT would be impressive and really do motorcycles the justice they deserve, much more so than just throwing a few into an existing GT game would.

 

[analog]

That's also possible if you combine the 2 on one disc, simply have separate GT-Life and TT-Life sections in the main menu as mentioned before many times.
However at this point I'd be satisfied with just the bikes alone and online filtering options making it possible to have bike-only races or bike and car action for those who just want to fool around without it being a serious race (as you rightfully observed that isn't really realistic although bikes and cars do share the track on any Nordschleife trackday for example).
I'd love a full game doing complete justice to motorcycles (be it integrated into GT or a separate game) but at this point I'd settle for just being able to ride/race bikes.

 

[another_jakhole]

If PD decided to add bikes I'd prefer they at least keep them separate from cars when it comes to racing, mostly because I don't ever remember seeing any actual racing series with cars and bikes on track at once (I could be wrong though, if I am please correct me ).

Though I would prefer if bikes got their own complete and separate game, before anyone gets upset let me explain why. The main reason is because I think a separate game would do much more justice to bikes and bike racing than simply trying to shoe-horn them into say GT6.

Realistically if bikes were added to GT6 what would you expect to get? I could see maybe a handful of bikes and a couple of motorcycle-specific tracks or alternate layouts for existing tracks if they're used as such in real life. You just have to look at how Karts, Nascar and Rallying are represented in GT5, sure it's "ok" to a point I guess but there's a whole lot more depth to the genres than we see or get in GT5 at least and I would expect the same to happen if bikes were added.

Imagine if you will a complete bike game built on say the GT6 platform, a similar game in many respects with a wide variety of vehicles spanning the different ages of motorcycles, including everything from classic / historic to modern, sports and super bikes, sidecar racing and all sorts. Done properly, like Gran Turismo but for bikes instead of cars.

Now THAT would be impressive and really do motorcycles the justice they deserve, much more so than just throwing a few into an existing GT game would.

A few?

\/\/\/

......

......

......


However, this is where GT was so successful, in that it combined a respect for the subject matter with this kind of playful gameyness (that is possibly less apparent in recent iterations than it used to be) and kind of continued the birth of the semi-sim car driving game, and bridging the "coolness gap" to the sims which are so in demand now. Adding bikes to GT, as a separate add-on (with some actual visibility this time), could well do the same for bikes.

Additionally, whilst TT was no real commercial success (it was seemingly never really treated by PD as though it was expected, or even required to be), the fact that those who played it thought very much that it was something to be expanded upon must speak volumes. After all, it seems to me that it's those games that offer truly compelling gameplay that cause the "core" group to reform their expectations, which then filter down to other groups as above.
For instance, being a PC sim racer at the time, I didn't think much of GT when it came out; that is until I actually played it (and the lack of any real "sim" driving aspects weren't really that important in light of the overall concept of the game, which was so fresh - of course, I'd still prefer that "concept" in a sim framework.)
Arguably, in that sense, bikes deserve more attention than cars, since, if we're to believe GT's detractors, it has become stale in recent years.

If PD decided to add bikes I'd prefer they at least keep them separate from cars when it comes to racing, mostly because I don't ever remember seeing any actual racing series with cars and bikes on track at once (I could be wrong though, if I am please correct me ).

Though I would prefer if bikes got their own complete and separate game, before anyone gets upset let me explain why. The main reason is because I think a separate game would do much more justice to bikes and bike racing than simply trying to shoe-horn them into say GT6.

Realistically if bikes were added to GT6 what would you expect to get? I could see maybe a handful of bikes and a couple of motorcycle-specific tracks or alternate layouts for existing tracks if they're used as such in real life. You just have to look at how Karts, Nascar and Rallying are represented in GT5, sure it's "ok" to a point I guess but there's a whole lot more depth to the genres than we see or get in GT5 at least and I would expect the same to happen if bikes were added.

Imagine if you will a complete bike game built on say the GT6 platform, a similar game in many respects with a wide variety of vehicles spanning the different ages of motorcycles, including everything from classic / historic to modern, sports and super bikes, sidecar racing and all sorts. Done properly, like Gran Turismo but for bikes instead of cars.

Now THAT would be impressive and really do motorcycles the justice they deserve, much more so than just throwing a few into an existing GT game would.

But that is very much not the same situation. The lack of valuable karting, NASCAR content and the rallying was a bit of proof that, even if you were to disagree that they weren't finished developing GT5, karting was never "trialed" before GT5 and it was actually meant to be a first in GT6. NASCAR was meant to be in GT5 but with not enough replayability value to it because of the fact that PD couldn't finish the game ahead of time (since they were forced to release the game earlier than they needed it to be.)

Tourist Trophy has an arguably whole 3-6 year head-start for the development team than NASCAR or karting has.

 

[sems4arsenal]

My one drawback with bikes is that with cars you have your FFB wheel at home to replicate the driving but you don't have that with bikes.

But I would love such an addition ,loved TT 👍

 

[another_jakhole]

That would be my only "gripe" about this, but when my steering wheel broke, I couldn't really play using the DS3. The nostalgia of having had something so great and... Pure, then to have to use something that makes it feel entirely like a game.

The point is that it's always good to use the 'ol controller and I know I would enjoy using it for the bikes. We'll see what happens. I thought the Move steering wheel was horrifyingly ridiculous at first, but then I saw a demonstration of its uses and how it all works. It's not so bad really.

 

[A2K78]

If PD decided to add bikes I'd prefer they at least keep them separate from cars when it comes to racing, mostly because I don't ever remember seeing any actual racing series with cars and bikes on track at once (I could be wrong though, if I am please correct me ).

Though I would prefer if bikes got their own complete and separate game, before anyone gets upset let me explain why. The main reason is because I think a separate game would do much more justice to bikes and bike racing than simply trying to shoe-horn them into say GT6.

Realistically if bikes were added to GT6 what would you expect to get? I could see maybe a handful of bikes and a couple of motorcycle-specific tracks or alternate layouts for existing tracks if they're used as such in real life. You just have to look at how Karts, Nascar and Rallying are represented in GT5, sure it's "ok" to a point I guess but there's a whole lot more depth to the genres than we see or get in GT5 at least and I would expect the same to happen if bikes were added.

Imagine if you will a complete bike game built on say the GT6 platform, a similar game in many respects with a wide variety of vehicles spanning the different ages of motorcycles, including everything from classic / historic to modern, sports and super bikes, sidecar racing and all sorts. Done properly, like Gran Turismo but for bikes instead of cars.

Now THAT would be impressive and really do motorcycles the justice they deserve, much more so than just throwing a few into an existing GT game would.

I agree if bikes were added both should be kept seperate and having their own modes.

speaking of, have you ever wondered what its like to see a motorcycles racing cars?

Ducati Desmosedici RR(GP6 replica) vs Ferrari 430 Scuderia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXI7UznivKw


Casey Stoner vs. Mark Webber and Jamie Whincup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g4RxOl39B4


MotoGP prototype vs. F1 car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK1vzco1cxU


note stoner techically isn't riding a motogp prototype

 

[MadmuppGT]

I think the only way Bikes could be in GT6 is if they put them in as an AI controlled challenge, Beat the bike/keep up with the bike etc... but player controlled bikes seems a bit of a stretch, but a Tourist Trophy PS4 title would be welcomed like a long lost son

 

[CoolColJ]

0:46 onwards -

 

[daus26]

That would be my only "gripe" about this, but when my steering wheel broke, I couldn't really play using the DS3. The nostalgia of having had something so great and... Pure, then to have to use something that makes it feel entirely like a game.

The point is that it's always good to use the 'ol controller and I know I would enjoy using it for the bikes. We'll see what happens. I thought the Move steering wheel was horrifyingly ridiculous at first, but then I saw a demonstration of its uses and how it all works. It's not so bad really.

I personally think it's going to be fun with the move steering wheel in "bike" mode. It even supports gear shifting with the handles. It's a floating peripheral though and I probably won't last long with the arms getting tired.

 

[A2K78]

I take back what I said, but who wouldn't want to see something like this in a GT game...

 

[Blank_Redge]

If PD decided to add bikes I'd prefer they at least keep them separate from cars when it comes to racing, mostly because I don't ever remember seeing any actual racing series with cars and bikes on track at once...

Only place I've ever seen it has been in drag racing. I can't think of any race series that have had bikes *and* cars on track at the same time.

 

[mcalva98]

If motorcycle were to come in GT6, they would probroly, make a GT mode section and a TT mode section, where both are separate, but online/ arcade you would have the option to mix thing up if you want, such as just cars only, bikes only, or cars vs bikes? This would be cool

 

[Griffith500]

Only place I've ever seen it has been in drag racing. I can't think of any race series that have had bikes *and* cars on track at the same time.

It's not all about current mainstream race series, but I expect having both on track would not be the norm for circuit races in the game (which is not going to be the only way to play the game, anyway). We should still have the option to do it.

 

[R5]

Only place I've ever seen it has been in drag racing. I can't think of any race series that have had bikes *and* cars on track at the same time.

So, what you're saying is they shouldn't compete. In other news, I recently took a Veyron against a load of French hatchbacks in A-spec.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

I think bikes have a place on GT.

Not mixed races though but, Freerun / Trackday rooms would be a blast. Just watch an everyday lap around the ring on Youtube, I think the bikes add a certain amount of exitement.

Give us the Isle of Man TT course and i'll scream like Ned Flanders.
Would love to drive cars around that beast.

 

[mjm23race]

How badass would it be if PD partnered up with a motorcycle company and had a GT Academy motorcycle version in the future?!

 

[Cheshyrkat]

I absolutely want bikes in GT. Would be perfectly fine if all the bikes were just the standard models from Tourist Trophy and perfectly fine if they only worked in a time trial mode. I would very much prefer a new Tourist Trophy or new assets built specifically for GT6 but will take whatever I can get.

 

[Trux]

Why on earth would a game entitled GT contain bikes?
An entirely different game like TT maybe but not in a GT game thanks.

 

[R5]

Why on earth would a game entitled GT contain bikes?
An entirely different game like TT maybe but not in a GT game thanks.

That's like asking what place a Sambabus has, isn't it?

Bikes would fit well into GT6, and there's a big appetite for them too.

 

[avens]

I take back what I said, but who wouldn't want to see something like this in a GT game...

I wouldn't, because motorcycle sims can't really be nowhere as good as car sims. It's one of those things that the only way of doing them justice is to do the real thing, which requires a lot more effort and knowledge than driving cars on the road.

 

[Griffith500]

Why on earth would a game entitled GT contain bikes?
An entirely different game like TT maybe but not in a GT game thanks.

There are plenty of grand tourers in the motorcycle world. Nevermind that most of the cars in GT aren't actually GTs...

I wouldn't, because motorcycle sims can't really be nowhere as good as car sims. It's one of those things that the only way of doing them justice is to do the real thing, which requires a lot more effort and knowledge than driving cars on the road.

Why do you say that?

 

[Bopop4]

Holy hell, how is this argument still going?
Bikes have absolutely no place in GT.

Apart from the inability for a game to simulate a motorcycle, there's the game issue of being able to buy a $2500 Litrebike and wipe the floor with most of the car list.

I wouldn't, because motorcycle sims can't really be nowhere as good as car sims. It's one of those things that the only way of doing them justice is to do the real thing, which requires a lot more effort and knowledge than driving cars on the road.

This is true.

Why do you say that?

Because it is true.

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle?

How badass would it be if PD partnered up with a motorcycle company and had a GT Academy motorcycle version in the future?!

That'd be hilarious, considering that none of the game would translate into real life.
You'd have chaos everywhere, people not even being able to perform the basics on a learners bike.

 

[Griffith500]

Holy hell, the same old unsubstantiated arguments borne from ignorance and elitism? Next!

 

[Bopop4]

Holy hell, the same old unsubstantiated arguments borne from ignorance and elitism? Next!

There is plenty proof that you can't properly simulate a bike. (And name ONE game that does it.)

1. You can't feel anything, that's a big one.
2. Body positioning, you can't move around in a car to change the handling. On a bike, this is a huge part of it.
3. Distribution of forces, want to weight the inside peg coming off of a turn? Can't do that in a game.

 

[R5]

In game (where these bikes would exist) cars and bikes would use the same controls. They'd have different lines, but not be any more difficult.

And in terms of racing, there are amazing things they could do with class limiters (make motorbikes class M and cars class C) to stop racing integration between the two.

Also, the physics code for TT was the same as GT4 (I believe), did the cars and bikes handle the same as each other? No. Different parameters in terms of grip, aero, weight and balance etc. ensure this.

As for bikes "Not belonging in GT", it could be argued that the FTO Super Touring Car doesn't belong, same with X1s, the RMs, the racers in general (seeing as it is Gran Turismo=> Grand Touring), but this logic is severely flawed. Like yours.

Moving on, Bebop.

Edit: and your second argument. Can you perfectly modulate an F1 car's ABS? Do you feel the G and downforce? Do you feel like you're driving a car with the Logitech wheels? Nope. So...

 

[avens]

Why do you say that?

I have never tried a motorcycle game that is as close as racing games in terms of simulating the experience. Lets say that on a PS3 (for example playing GT6) you can get 25% of the experience with a driving wheel, then TT would be 5% at best.
That percentage is not likely to increase anytime soon and most probably it will never reach that 25%, because it's a forgotten genre (doesn't sell well so there aren't many good developers) and some activities are harder to simulate than others (it's easier to do a car simulator than a sex simulator, isn't it).

As for the second point, driving a motorcycle (not scooter) requires a lot more skill to do than driving a regular car in daily driving, because of grip, how physics affect them, human reactions and how the inputs are. All motorcyclists know that and even driving tests show it. Personally, I have always been amazed at how average joe motorcyclist knows vastly more about driving, mechanics and all related aspects than the average soccer mom, almost amateur car racer like just for being able to drive on legal roads without killing themselves, because having and not losing grip is not guaranteed. Also, being decent on the track takes a lot more time for bikers than for car enthusiasts.
Lets put ourselves in the realistic situation that you want to get your first bike and go for something with 500cc+, since it's a common mistake and that's the way people would play in GT6 with bikes: You have a rear wheel vehicle -an increasingly rare thing in cars so not everyone has experienced it-, that has 4 times the power than the car he daily drives, manual, independent brakes that most probably don't have ABS....and it has half the wheels. Heck, it's a killer to do that step with the same factors but with 4 wheels, and it happens all the time both in cars and bikes.

While Bopop4's comment did sound elitist, in the end someone that doesn't know about motorcycles can hardly have an opinion about them. It's a step as big as going from feet to 4 wheels.

 

[Griffith500]

There is plenty proof that you can't properly simulate a bike. (And name ONE game that does it.)

1. You can't feel anything, that's a big one.
2. Body positioning, you can't move around in a car to change the handling. On a bike, this is a huge part of it.
3. Distribution of forces, want to weight the inside peg coming off of a turn? Can't do that in a game.

There are people that argue that your bodyweight is a minor part of a motorcycle's handling. I'm not one of those; but do you really think that playing GT is an accurate depiction of reality? You can't feel anything there, either - that's the big one, at least I rely heavily on my butt-o-meter in real life. Plus everything you said was ********, controls can be developed to deal with that, even on a gamepad. Sure, it's abstracted, but it is in GT if you use a pad already, and that's how most people play it!

I really don't want to have to go through all of this again, so you can bask in your ignorance all you like, I don't care. "There hasn't been a decent bike sim ever, so no one should ever try to make one again!" Yeah, intelligent...

 

[dr_slump]

There are people that argue that your bodyweight is a minor part of a motorcycle's handling.

 

[R5]

Isn't that like saying "There has never been a good plane, so no one should try again!" To the Wright brothers? Failures lead to success.

 

[Bopop4]

Considering that F1 teams actually use simulators then, yes, they do give you enough of a feel that it can be translated to the track.

And yes, you can use the the feel from a G25/G27 to drive in real life.
Just look at the fastest guy in iRacing. He had only driven a Ford Escort (Or somethinglike that.) in real life, and they put him in a Formula Mazda at Road Atlanta, and he was very quick.