Motorcycles in GT6?

[Spagetti69]

Wasn't the bike control issue solved with TT?

Not sure if your talking about physics here.

But apparently you could fully bank the bike whilst cornering and apply full brakes. (Don't try this at home).

 

[MSTER232]

Cars and motorcycles use the same physics.

This would be a good idea as putting cars and bikes in the same game would probably save time and money, and also greatly increase gameplay options. I'm not interested in motorcycles myself, but plenty of people are.

And what evidence do you have that having motorcycles and cars in the same game using the same physics engine will still be realistic. I haven't seen one bike that drives like a car.

 

[Spagetti69]

And what evidence do you have that having motorcycles and cars in the same game using the same physics engine will still be realistic. I haven't seen one bike that drives like a car.

Well strictly speaking ever since the apple hit Newtons head we all use the same physics engine.

ATM. GT's weak points seem to be low speed, collision and different online physics.

The Latter being a deal breaker not bring able to flip a car would translate as bike being on rails.

 

[another_jakhole]

And what evidence do you have that having motorcycles and cars in the same game using the same physics engine will still be realistic. I haven't seen one bike that drives like a car.

EPIC FAIL?

They did it for TT with GT4's physics. GT4 didn't have realistic enough physics. They'll do the same for motorcycles in GT6.

I didn't know they had to be the most realistic physics possible for them to be in the game, especially since you don't want them. Do cars roll-over realistically? Do they crash realistically? GT4, you couldn't take off the ABS. Apparently, the physics will never grow to become more realistic over the years since TT was unrealistic using GT4's physics.

You're grasping at straws. It seems like some of you simply don't want the motorcycles in GT from making these exaggerated problems that more than likely won't exist for you. Even if you were forced to use them in a Special Events, everybody was "forced" to do a series of rally events, use the X2010, and use karts. Some people hate those with karts being a mostly welcome part of the game despite it being meant for GT6. Keep in mind that the X2010 challenges were overly difficult for some. There are some people that can't even finish the licenses or gold the GT Academy's Motegi time trial.

 

[MSTER232]

EPIC FAIL?

They did it for TT with GT4's physics. GT4 didn't have realistic enough physics. They'll do the same for motorcycles in GT6.

I argue the physics are different because can you drift a bike in TT? No? Well that's all I needed to hear:

 

[Exorcet]

Not sure if your talking about physics here.

But apparently you could fully bank the bike whilst cornering and apply full brakes. (Don't try this at home).

Not physics, but actual controls as in the Playstation controller. TT had a working system.

And what evidence do you have that having motorcycles and cars in the same game using the same physics engine will still be realistic. I haven't seen one bike that drives like a car.

Physics text book. I really don't know what else to say. I don't know of many simulators that feature cars and motorcycles, but from a physics standpoint they are exactly the same. You have a mass that you apply forces to and it goes places. How and where you apply forces could differ between motorcycle and car, but this is trivial.

Look at Little Big Planet, with a single physics engine, you are able to recreate catapults, unicycles, guns, flight vehicles, collisions, on and on. Physics is physics.

 

[MSTER232]

Physics text book. I really don't know what else to say. I don't know of many simulators that feature cars and motorcycles, but from a physics standpoint they are exactly the same. You have a mass that you apply forces to and it goes places. How and where you apply forces could differ between motorcycle and car, but this is trivial.

Look at Little Big Planet, with a single physics engine, you are able to recreate catapults, unicycles, guns, flight vehicles, collisions, on and on. Physics is physics.

Physics is physics, but does that mean a bike drives the same way a car does? No. So if PD literally copy and pasted GT4's physics engine into TT, then you are saying people would be drifting bikes in TT?

 

[Griffith500]

Not sure if your talking about physics here.

But apparently you could fully bank the bike whilst cornering and apply full brakes. (Don't try this at home).

That's not a control issue; again, that's GT4's stability-control-cum-ABS plus kooky tyre model.

I argue the physics are different because can you drift a bike in TT? No? Well that's all I needed to hear:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EwG-nAUBe0

I'm hoping you're deliberately being an idiot here. Of course you can drift a bike, even two wheel drifts are common in MotoGP and especially off-road. TT allowed that, although the underlying tyre model (GT4's) sucked.

 

[MSTER232]

I'm hoping you're deliberately being an idiot here. Of course you can drift a bike, even two wheel drifts are common in MotoGP and especially off-road.

But what relevance does real life biking have to do with Tourist Trophy? And no, I'm not an idiot in any way, shape or form.

 

[another_jakhole]

That's not a control issue; again, that's GT4's stability-control-cum-ABS plus kooky tyre model.

👍

I'm hoping you're deliberately being an idiot here. Of course you can drift a bike, even two wheel drifts are common in MotoGP and especially off-road. TT allowed that, although the underlying tyre model (GT4's) sucked.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

lalalala Grasping at straws lolololo

 

[Exorcet]

Physics is physics, but does that mean a bike drives the same way a car does? No. So if PD literally copy and pasted GT4's physics engine into TT, then you are saying people would be drifting bikes in TT?

What?

No one would use GT4's physics engine in a simulator in this day and age. It couldn't even get cars right.

And yes, a bike does drive the same as a car from the basic physics perspective. It's a mass that has forces applied to it. GT6, with a detailed enough engine, would see a tire of specific dimensions and properties under a certain load, supporting a vehicle of mass X whose mass is being propelled by various forces originating from the tire(s), rotating mass, aerodynamics, and whatever else. The physics engine wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a car and a bike.

The only difference would be the inputs as when the engine is running a motorcycle it will have to deal with player commanded leaning which just becomes another set of forces to throw into the physics calculation.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not sure if your talking about physics here.

But apparently you could fully bank the bike whilst cornering and apply full brakes. (Don't try this at home).

In Tourist Trophy you can assign different button for front and rear brakes - enable independent brake mode, the brakes do lock up the wheels, I could even slide the bikes with rear brake while banking the bike. And as far as I remember you can do stoppie and falling off the bike while heavy braking due to front wheel slides as a result of front brake lockups.

 

[Griffith500]

But what relevance does real life biking have to do with Tourist Trophy? And no, I'm not an idiot in any way, shape or form.

The same relevance real life car-ing has with GT4.

 

[another_jakhole]

Did I read that correctly?

 

[MSTER232]

Probably not.

The same relevance real life car-ing has with GT4.

The last time I checked I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between biking in real life and biking in TT.

 

[another_jakhole]

Probably not.



The last time I checked I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between biking in real life and biking in TT.

I have an idea of what you mean, but you'll need to be explicit.

The same relevance real life car-ing has with GT4.

I don't get how you replied to this the way that you have.

 

[Griffith500]

...
The last time I checked I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between biking in real life and biking in TT.

And the same is true of GT4, for many of the same reasons.

 

[mjm23race]

Physics is physics, but does that mean a bike drives the same way a car does?

Does a Kublewagen drive the same way as an X1? There are different parameters to enter into the physics model, wheelbase, center of gravity, gyroscopic effect, horsepower, weight, suspension settings, g forces, # of wheels and so on and so on.

Probably not.

The last time I checked I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between biking in real life and biking in TT.

There is a big difference in how real life cars and tires handle and act, and how they act in game. I think that is the point Griffith500 was trying to make.

Side note, Griffith500 check your pm. Thanks

 

[Sphinx]

I'm hoping you're deliberately being an idiot here.

If you can't post without handing out insults, then don't post.

 

[arora]

I know, I know. But I have no issues having a conversation back and forth in a civilized manner over opposing views.

I wasn't seeing a problem either, I guess jackhole is...

Bikes in GT6 won't take as much time as making a sequel to TT, and I already showed that Kaz said it was possible to use the same physics as the cars in GT5 which they did for GT4/TT.

Kinda my point actually, but that has already been discussed in my absence.

ALL THAT and the fact that he said that the AI in GT5 is dumb in another thread was the reason why I said that to you. Non-competitive and boring is fully understandable for someone to think.

"I have a feeling" he's only talking. At least I had something to support what I had to say when I replied to avens some days ago.

I have no idea what you are on about or how it relates to me.

 

[counter345]

I don't think PD have the time or motivation to include a DECENT selection of bikes within the game as WELL AS a good car collection. What's more, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work all too well on the same physics engine, and then you've got problems like ramming online, etc.

 

[Exorcet]

problems like ramming online, etc.

How is that a problem? It sounds like one of the anti X1 arguments, which is to say weak. Rammer? Then kick. There are already rammers in a game that only features cars and they can already be dealt with.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Why are people so much against motorcycles?

First of all, PD could very well use all bikes which were included in TT like they do with cars from GT4 in GT5. So you already have a nice bike list and modelling newer bikes isn`t that difficult. I`m 100% sure it takes them less time to model a Desmosedici then a Suzuki Cappuccino or all those japanese key cars.

Modelling the dynamics of a motorcycle is not rocket science. I`m pretty sure that GT5`s engine can -or could with slight changes- model the behaviour of a motorcycle. TT already did with GT4. Well it was not really realistic, more arcadish, but it wasn`t bad.

Most important point: GT6 would have a new major feature which sets it appart from its direct competitors. I already have more then enough cars to race with, for me just adding 300 premium cars to GT6 is no major improvement.

 

[Ven0m]

How is that a problem? It sounds like one of the anti X1 arguments, which is to say weak. Rammer? Then kick. There are already rammers in a game that only features cars and they can already be dealt with.

He's probably talking about people ramming motorcycles, which would effectively knock a rider off every time.

 

[mjm23race]

^^ that's why I will Velcro my rider to the seat.

 

[mjm23race]

I wasn't seeing a problem either, I guess jackhole is...

I doubt anyone has a problem with the dialogue that goes on here, after all it is a public forum. But I can see getting frustrated when a number of people keep asking the same questions instead of actually reading the thread that has already covered the points of contention. It is also frustrating arguing with people that will never be on board with what you are discussing, but after all it is a public forum.

Why are people so much against motorcycles?

No disrespect, but I think a lot of people don't understand motorcycles, and are afraid of things they don't understand. Just about anyone can drive a car, and can learn to drive fast in a short amount of time. It takes more skill to ride a bike fast, I'm real life and in a game as well.

 

[counter345]

How is that a problem? It sounds like one of the anti X1 arguments, which is to say weak. Rammer? Then kick.

It's not just a case of 'bad behaviour', because accidents happen all the time in Motorsport and in GT5, especially when people have no perspective of danger.

^^ that's why I will Velcro my rider to the seat.

Not sure if velcro would sustain the extreme Gs of crashing!

 

[arora]

Reading the thread is one thing, finding credible information is another. I don't think anyone in this thread has enough knowledge to understand how the physics engine works for instance.(bikes don't ride as cars drive etc.)

I'd be curious to see a bike modeled and slapped into gt5, my guess is it would not be very fun let alone realistic.(turning is not leaning and all that)

Just the tip of the iceberg imo

 

[mjm23race]

Reading the thread is one thing, finding credible information is another. I don't think anyone in this thread has enough knowledge to understand how the physics engine works for instance.(bikes don't ride as cars drive)

I'd be curious to see a bike modeled and slapped into gt5, my guess is it would not be very fun let alone realistic.(turning is not leaning and all that)

Certain logical assumptions can be made as far as physics and handling are concerned.

I raise my hand to beta test that bike in GT5. PD I will send you a friend request tonight. Ok?

 

[arora]

I bet we all would like to try that bike

As for assumptions, I will continue to assume that bikes in gt6 is a bad idea and will not happen.