Motorsports Trivia Thread!

[MaxAttack]

Passing half the field in half a lap makes me think of the 1951 (I think) Monegasque Grand Prix when a tidal wave flooded Tabac and almost everyone crashed out on the first lap. It could have been a backmarker but obviously, that's not a 1951 car going by the picture.

A cursory Google tells me you're one year off, it was 1950.

I also found an anecdotal story that as Fangio was approaching the accident, he noticed the crowd looking ahead around the corner instead of at him, and took that as a cue that something was wrong and to slow down, avoiding piling into the scene.

 

[Dotini]

It seems a wave came in from the harbor and flooded the corner, causing the pile-up. Fangio, approaching the corner, saw that the crowd was not looking at him, but at the carnage ahead, and was able to slow up in time to not become involved.

In practice, Alfredo Pian of Maserati sustained a broken leg in a crash, and in the pileup pictured, Jose Froilan Gonzalez of Maserati damaged his car but tried to continue on, but a lap later his car's fuel tank ruptured on braking, causing fuel to slosh into the cockpit and then igniting. Gonzalez suffered second degree burns after rolling around on the ground.

Juan Manuel Fangio, who ended up winning the race by one lap, was concerned about the injuries of his fellow racers. He personally drove Alfredo Pian all the way from Monaco to Bologna to an orthopedic hospital to treat his broken leg, and the returned back to Monaco, and then drove Gonzalez to a specialist burns unit in Italy.

 

[MaxAttack]

It seems a wave came in from the harbor and flooded the corner, causing the pile-up. Fangio, approaching the corner, saw that the crowd was not looking at him, but at the carnage ahead, and was able to slow up in time to not become involved.

This chap is really helping the cleanup effort

 

[Dotini]

Do you think it is been an exceptionally long time since the last F1 race was run in 2019? Historically, going back to the first F1 race in 1950, it has been longer. But by how much and when? How much further must we wait until a new record is set for the greatest length of time between GP's?

 

[Liquid]

There was a time in the 1960s when the calendar used to start in South Africa in January as close to NYD as possible and then nothing until May, the traditional starting point, a period of ~5 months. The way I "think" of F1 in my head, based on the time I grew up with it, the season ends in October and starts in March which is a period of ~6 months.

But going back to the time to the early years when there where just 8 races a season, particularly the F2 years, there was probably a gap of October-May in between years, which is about ~7 months.

 

[Dotini]

There was a time in the 1960s when the calendar used to start in South Africa in January as close to NYD as possible and then nothing until May, the traditional starting point, a period of ~5 months. The way I "think" of F1 in my head, based on the time I grew up with it, the season ends in October and starts in March which is a period of ~6 months.

But going back to the time to the early years when there where just 8 races a season, particularly the F2 years, there was probably a gap of October-May in between years, which is about ~7 months.

Perfect question, perfect winner. No research or scholarship required.

 

[Liquid]

Thank you but I don't have any questions lined up at the moment. Pass.

 

[Pete05]

I was thinking of the gap enforced by the conflict of World War ll.

That must’ve been at least 6 years.

 

[Dotini]

I was thinking of the gap enforced by the conflict of World War ll.

That must’ve been at least 6 years.

I beg your pardon for my research and scholarship.

The last GP from before the war was Tripoli, May 12, 1940, won by Farina for Alfa-Romeo.

The first post-war GP to be so recognized (because both the Alfa and Maserati teams were present) was St. Cloud near Paris, France, June 9th, 1946, won by Sommer for Maserati. Farina, Nuvolari, and Wimille completed the two front rows.


Sommer enjoyed 1946 with Maserati


From a poster for the Crystal Palace May 21, 1938 meeting, the Sydenham Trophy.

 

[Pete05]

I've been sitting on this one for a while so, put your thinking caps on.

Name the engine that made a single start in the World Driver's Championship for Formula 1.

 

[Kowhai]

My guess is something 50s and British such as HWM or Alta

 

[Pete05]

My guess is something 50s and British such as HWM or Alta

Nice try, but no cigar for you this time.

 

[Jimlaad43]

EMW?

 

[Pete05]

EMW?

I've never heard of this engine but, it's not the answer I'm looking for.

 

[daan]

There was a McLaren Serenissima but I don't know how many races it got to. I don't imagine it did much as it is a bit obscure.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I've never heard of this engine but, it's not the answer I'm looking for.

I believe at this point it was a decade old engine from the BMW 328.

I think this is it in the front of the shot.

 

[MaxAttack]

I believe at this point it was a decade old engine from the BMW 328.

I think this is it in the front of the shot.

Is this the original giant BMW GT3 meme??? (Top left corner)

 

[Dotini]

I've been sitting on this one for a while so, put your thinking caps on.

Name the engine that made a single start in the World Driver's Championship for Formula 1.

My hunch is that this happened more than once. So that would take me some research to know for sure.

However, I do recall the straight eight 2.5 liter Gordini which competed in a handful of non-championship races but only one Grande Épreuve.

Gordini Type 32

Edit: Some research shows the McLaren-Serenissima qualified in 3 GP's but started (and finished in the points) in only one.

Edit2: The only Canadian F1 car, the Stebro with a 1500cc Ford 105E of extremely modest horsepower, appeared in and started only one GP.

Edit3: The BMW 328 engine appeared numerous GP's in the early 50's. Veritas, Veritas-Meteor.

Edit4: A 1500cc OSCA made one appearance during the 2-liter era, '52-'53.

Edit5: The EMW car made only one appearance. It had a BMW engine, but maybe it was not the BMW 328 but the BMW 325. There were numerous other BMW specials made up of bits and pieces; definitely a sub-chapter worthy of further study.

Edit6: There's probably definitely more, but I'd like to make honorable mention of the Aston Butterworth flat 4, making a whopping 2 appearances in 1952, one by Robin Montgomerie-Charrington.

Aston Butterworth NB42 displayed at Motor Sport at the Palace Crystal Palace circuit, 25 May 2015

 

[Pete05]

There was a McLaren Serenissima but I don't know how many races it got to. I don't imagine it did much as it is a bit obscure.

My hunch is that this happened more than once. So that would take me some research to know for sure.

However, I do recall the straight eight 2.5 liter Gordini which competed in a handful of non-championship races but only one Grande Épreuve.

Gordini Type 32

Edit: Some research shows the McLaren-Serenissima qualified in 3 GP's but started (and finished in the points) in only one.

Edit2: The only Canadian F1 car, the Stebro with a 1500cc Ford 105E of extremely modest horsepower, appeared in and started only one GP.

Well done to you both on picking the McLaren-Serenissima.

In McLaren's debut year and the first for the new 3.0 rules, McLaren started the year by trying to use an Indy-based Ford V8. It was down on power & hardly what you would call reliable.

Enter the Serenissima.

It entered a total of 3 Grand Prix; recording a DNS in Belgium after bearing failure in practice, finished 6th & scored a point at Brands Hatch for the British GP, and another DNS at Zandvoort.

Serenissima was never seen in F1 again.

 

[Liquid]

EMW?

I've never heard of this engine

EMW was BMW in early East Germany; one of BMW's factories was located in the Soviet zone. It carried on under the BMW name until a protest from the now unaffiliated BMW company in Munich saw them change their name in 1952 to EMW (Eisenacher Motorenwerk, looking like Eastern Motor Works in English by pure coincidence) after the town of Eisenach where it was located.

EMW ceased to exist just four years later when it was nationalised in 1956 as the VEB Automobilwerk and became the location of the Wartburg, East Germany's second best known car after the Trabi.

EMW even kept using the same logo as BMW prime but used a red spinning propellor instead of a blue one. And as Jimlaad hints, they entered one F2 race, the 1953 German Grand Prix.

 

[MatskiMonk]

And as Jimlaad hints, they entered one F2 race, the 1953 German Grand Prix.

As I understand it, only one world championship race, as they were unable to leave Germany for one reason or another. I think they contested domestic East and West German series races using F2 regs as well, but I'm not really sure.

It had a BMW engine, but maybe it was not the BMW 328 but the BMW 325

Increasing the compression and changing the carbs might not leave much of a difference between those anyway. A stock 325 unit was ~50hp, the 328's in race form were getting over double that. I've never really followed F2 or the Eisenachers.

 

[Liquid]

As I understand it, only one world championship race, as they were unable to leave Germany for one reason or another. I think they contested domestic East and West German series races using F2 regs as well, but I'm not really sure.

It was exactly around this time, 1952, that East Germany began restricting travel between itself, the Soviet zone, and the other three zones of West Germany. Prior to this, it was still quite easy to walk over between the two.

By 1956 Republiksflucht saw the inner German border begin to spring up; barbed wire crossing points.

So no surprise EMW found it tough after 1953.

 

[Carbonox]

Not a question with a definitive answer, but I've wondered for some time now, how intense were team orders in the old F1 era where reliability was often a concern for leading teams? Lotus, from what I understand, had the championship essentially 'reserved' for Mario Andretti in 1978, but what if Ronnie Peterson never died, went on to win Watkins Glen with Andretti retiring to shorten the points gap to 4, and then dominated Canada as well with Andretti again falling out of the points, this time for apparent crash reasons? Would they or would they not have ordered Peterson to park it and give up the win to a rival team?

 

[Pete05]

Not a question with a definitive answer, but I've wondered for some time now, how intense were team orders in the old F1 era where reliability was often a concern for leading teams? Lotus, from what I understand, had the championship essentially 'reserved' for Mario Andretti in 1978, but what if Ronnie Peterson never died, went on to win Watkins Glen with Andretti retiring to shorten the points gap to 4, and then dominated Canada as well with Andretti again falling out of the points, this time for apparent crash reasons? Would they or would they not have ordered Peterson to park it and give up the win to a rival team?

I can’t imagine any team past, present or future forgoing a shiny trophy simply because their designated number 1 didn’t claim it.

Better the ‘reserve’ get the title than someone from a rival team.

 

[Carbonox]

I can’t imagine any team past, present or future forgoing a shiny trophy simply because their designated number 1 didn’t claim it.

Better the ‘reserve’ get the title than someone from a rival team.

The championship was 100% going to the Lotus squad, I guess I should've included that detail. My inquiry was solely about whether they'd surrender a win from an individual race to keep the title in their number 1's hands.

 

[Pete05]

The championship was 100% going to the Lotus squad, I guess I should've included that detail. My inquiry was solely about whether they'd surrender a win from an individual race to keep the title in their number 1's hands.

It’s hard to imagine.

 

[Liquid]

In the 1973 Italian Grand Prix Jackie Stewart finished 4th which was enough to seal the title that year. Ronnie Peterson won the race by 0.8 seconds from teammate Emerson Fittipaldi. Peterson did not move over, and never looked like moving over, to help Fittipaldi win the title or at least extend the fight by one more race.

0.8 seconds ahead of the team leader who is also the defending champion? Very strange. The only thing I can think of is that Fittipaldi's move to McLaren was already going ahead but it still seems extremely unusual and, if the McLaren angle is correct even spiteful, for a team to not continue fighting for the title when there was still a chance.

 

[Pete05]

In the 1973 Italian Grand Prix Jackie Stewart finished 4th which was enough to seal the title that year. Ronnie Peterson won the race by 0.8 seconds from teammate Emerson Fittipaldi. Peterson did not move over, and never looked like moving over, to help Fittipaldi win the title or at least extend the fight by one more race.

0.8 seconds ahead of the team leader who is also the defending champion? Very strange. The only thing I can think of is that Fittipaldi's move to McLaren was already going ahead but it still seems extremely unusual and, if the McLaren angle is correct even spiteful, for a team to not continue fighting for the title when there was still a chance.

I watched this race recently & my thoughts were that Chapman decided Fittipaldi is leaving so **** him!
Be damned if he’s taking the #1 he got here to another team.

 

[Dotini]

To those who were there, the '73 Italian GP was mainly about Stewart's incredible, awe-inspiring charge up through the field from 20th after a puncture. Up front, Peterson had everything covered as he was by far quickest and on the pole, leading all the way. Fittipaldi was suffering from injured ankles and very far behind Stewart in the Championship standing. On the last lap, Peterson was leading easily, but when he saw Chapman throw his cap into the air, he (not exactly a mental giant) backed off briefly, allowing the Brazilian catch up a bit. Chapman, after the death of Clark, stopped being sentimental about his drivers, and had no qualms about Peterson winning this race for Team Lotus.

Reportedly, there were never team orders in this race, and Fittipaldi made his decision to go to McLaren only after this race, not before.


That's Revson's McLaren in 3rd. He had two wins that season.

 

[Liquid]

Reportedly, there were never team orders in this race, and Fittipaldi made his decision to go to McLaren only after this race, not before.

That makes it all the more curious.