MT vs AT - how much faster?

[Kamikatze]

I have square for shift down, circle for shift up. Like a paddle shift setting.

Tried and like it 👍
I can see the potential, even if it still takes a little while before it feels natural. Just at the last time trial at Le Mans, the Group C cars were noticeably slower with AT.
Now it's time to gradually reduce the traction control from 3 down to 1 or 0. Without force feedback on the PS4 controller, this will take a while to get used to.

I wish you could switch in AT anyway to sort of override the default. The hysteresis when shifting up/down is the biggest annoyance. Maybe in the future some kind of AI will optimise the shifting behaviour, shouldn't be too difficult to adjust to each car's performance curve and maybe also weather/track conditions.

 

[Chris30]

Well I'm definitely switching to MT. As most top drivers use this technique in fast racing!

 

[Meythia]

Maybe in the future some kind of AI will optimise the shifting behaviour, shouldn't be too difficult to adjust to each car's performance curve and maybe also weather/track conditions.

At least it would be helpful to having AT shift at the optimal point at optimal conditions (looking at especially you DP100), leaving the not-so optimal situations to be cleared with careful driving just as it is right now.

 

[Chris30]

At least it would be helpful to having AT shift at the optimal point at optimal conditions (looking at especially you DP100), leaving the not-so optimal situations to be cleared with careful driving just as it is right now.

Are you using the MT option? I don't think the AT is giving me enough force and speed.

 

[Meythia]

Are you using the MT option? I don't think the AT is giving me enough force and speed.

Yes, for multiple reasons.
1. personally attached to doing it manually
2. more control over traction and power
3. better control over fuel useage
4. as I said before, some cars AT shifting points dont match with the fastest acceleration at all

 

[MedB]

I'm a controller player and I use manual on all the cars except for the Super Formula.

For me, the SF's require so much concentration to get the braking points and turn in points correct, and with so much shifting, I just can't keep up on manual.

 

[shadow0460]

I've had this thought on every racing game I've played that has a transmission. One thing stands out: with a manual you can keep the engine in it's power band.
In 1997 I didn't shift the Sega Hornet at red line, I memorized certain speeds to shift at which varied with where I was on the track. On the bridge they were higher, going into some tighter corners they were significantly lower due to possible traction loss and scripted AI crashes. Usually right before the big bridge I'd pass a light blue car that said "Pophouse" on the trunk and my Race Leader lamp would light for everyone in the arcade to see I'm leading the game's most difficult single player race.
To a point, control dominates speed. Run SCUD Race with the Porsche 911 and an auto and you'll do OK but you have to be spot on your racing lines to win. Try it with a manual and the McLaren and you'll be lucky to finish...until you reach a point where you can handle the car's power. Maintain those same lines and victory is a no brainier. Miss a line and you can still win if you recover quickly.
Now let's switch gears a minute: engage autopilot alone with wipEout and it'll take its own racing line, one which misses any shortcuts or nuances in the actual line. It brute forces braking and turns, leaving you open to rockets. It makes no effort to avoid weapons fire or mines, so one good earthquake or a string of mines will definitely ruin your day.
In Gran Turismo, each car has a power band shown on the settings. The 26B's power band is in the crazy high RPM range but the engine is very efficient. It still produces respectable torque at 5,000 RPM though. The newer Group 3 Nissans reach max torque very quickly and hold it there almost to the rev limiter. Really, their torque line is flat. You can upshift in those early and save a ton of fuel.
My biggest test case, though, is the Trans Am. No one ever drove a car like that to redline before shifting, that's true of virtually every American car made. It's worthless with an automatic in game because it uses so much fuel. Run a manual and drive it the way you would in real life and that story changes real fast. I've won both the Spa and Sardegna events with it. Spa was touch and go, Sardegna was easy. I stopped once there. At Spa I stopped when I needed tires, taking on full fuel at each stop.
In all these games I started out with as much assist as possible. I still run wipEout's autopilot when it's available, but I not hammering it as soon as I get it.

 

[Chris30]

Will the MT be more useful for the higher difficulty licenses? I hope so, it starts to get real challenging in the IB and IA sections, and don't even get me started on the Super license exam tests. They seem impossible to earn a gold medal on.

 

[GlockPants]

Will the MT be more useful for the higher difficulty licenses? I hope so, it starts to get real challenging in the IB and IA sections, and don't even get me started on the Super license exam tests. They seem impossible to earn a gold medal on.

Generally speaking, I'd say that the MT will benefit you in all events, License tests included.

Most recently, the Master S-10 test using the MP4/4 gains a huge advantage skipping gears. I have a replay saved on my shared items if you view my User Page in-game, if you'd like to view the proof.

 

[Pesselles]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

 

[PlanetJanet]

Whilst I totally agree with @GlockPants in that MT is almost always beneficial, I don't think it's a requirement for being fast and passing licence tests, with a few exceptions such as the aforementioned S-10 test.

Knowing your lines and braking points is more important in my opinion. I've a close friend who is extremely quick and always uses AT; he'd be slightly faster with MT if he got used to it but it's not suddenly going to grant an extra 1-2 seconds of pace.

 

[engrmariano]

i use m/t for races that has fuel consumption, a/t if it doesn't.

 

[NJ72]

MT is, in my experience, for shaving off a few more tenths.

Depending on the car it can make a huge difference (especially if you install a mid range turbo), but you can be fast with AT.

I'd recommend learning to use MT to anyone and everyone if you can, though, as it gives you much greater control over each car and will be faster in 99% of circumstances (once you've learnt how to use it, of course)

 

[smoothbore12]

i use m/t for races that has fuel consumption, a/t if it doesn't.

I do exactly the same thing.
But definitely MT allows you to be more " flexible " and faster at TT lap times .
Am such an old dog that am playing the same combination from gt1 😂 ( buttons for everything ).
In gt3 i got my first wheel ( Logitech ) and i was faster without a doubt even on AT gears.

Perhaps i must switch to triggers for brake and throttle but then MT will be impossible for me.

 

[Meythia]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

On the PS1 I was trying to use left stick press to downshift and right stick press to upshift as left = steering = possible slow down and right = acceleration = very likely want to go faster.
It seemed logical to a child.
Times passed between GT2 as my last and GTS as my next with a hard break inbetween, I now use controller default settings.
Thumb is free to X or square.

As for the speed difference, in some cars you wont notice it, in others it will be worlds apart (DP-100 ...), but in most cases it should only be a minor difference. Yet the option to shift at any time can open up for fuel saving or improved traction in certian situations.

 

[soc123_au]

I use auto if I'm grinding or on track/car combos I don't like enough to bother learning to be faster than I need to be.

To Gold all the licences/CE I had to use MT.

 

[PlanetJanet]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

MT is definitely more intuitive with a wheel. That being said, it's not such a hard thing to get used to really, just requires a little time to adjust. If you're really keen to try it, I suspect it won't take as long as you think before it's quite natural.

 

[330_D]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

When I first got my wheel, it seemed really difficult to time everything well. It took me a month at least (I don't play as much as most) to get back to my times with the controller. I mostly stuck with AT on dual sense as I just don't have the dexterity in my fingers to be quick enough with the pad. Once I got more comfortable with the wheel and shifting became more natural my times really started dropping. It's not a magic pill and takes some work with the wheel but it's most certainly the easiest way to get quicker, quickly.

 

[engrmariano]

I do exactly the same thing.
But definitely MT allows you to be more " flexible " and faster at TT lap times .
Am such an old dog that am playing the same combination from gt1 😂 ( buttons for everything ).
In gt3 i got my first wheel ( Logitech ) and i was faster without a doubt even on AT gears.

Perhaps i must switch to triggers for brake and throttle but then MT will be impossible for me.

i’m still using controller.😉

 

[SaveTheKid]

As a Daily Race driver I find AT lets me concentrate more on what's happening around me hence Im faster.

 

[JDMKING13]

It’s not even close in my opinion.. Manual will make you faster by a long shot! Also for the folks who do hour or more races like me.. manual will help you save on fuel big time vs Auto. This is not saying auto is not fast I have friends who use it and can gold TT in sport mode. Manual is just the better option in the end.

 

[shadow0460]

I do exactly the same thing.
But definitely MT allows you to be more " flexible " and faster at TT lap times .
Am such an old dog that am playing the same combination from gt1 😂 ( buttons for everything ).
In gt3 i got my first wheel ( Logitech ) and i was faster without a doubt even on AT gears.

Perhaps i must switch to triggers for brake and throttle but then MT will be impossible for me.

It's natural. I've run MT with trigger brake and acceleration since Daytona CCE. Yep, the Saturn pad has ananlog triggers and they work!

 

[Chris30]

I'm glad I posted on this, this morning. We need to keep this forum alive, it can really teach our lower-skilled drivers tips and tricks to help them grow and drive faster and set better lap times and records in the license tests and CE's. Maybe for now I should stick with AT until I'm more familiar with MT, I first need to find the right configuration for my controller, tweaking it in the settings menu.

 

[Draggon]

I've been using MT since GT Sport. MT is more fun than AT but I'm slower. In some of the time trials it's been as much as 2 seconds. It must be my age since I find it difficult to run through the gears while focusing on gas brake and getting the optimal line through the corner.

 

[TonyLomas]

For me it varies. Purely due to my current skill level.
I agree that manual allows you more control, lets you get more revs and definitely allows you to save fuel.
However, on tracks that I don't know very well or complicated tracks like the Nurburgring Nordschleife I am actual quicker using an automatic gearbox as I can concentrate on the lines and apex's more and don't have any wrong gear mistakes.
On a simpler track or one I know well then I can get more speed using manual gears.

It also varies according to the car as some have very odd powerbands.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

I use auto gear with the pad and manual gears when I use my wheel.

 

[Keef]

Hi everyone in this very interesting thread.

I play in AT mode since GT1 and honestly, I'l afraid to switch to MT with my controller. AT is "more" comfortable for lazy GOD (Grumpy Old Dudes) like me, I only have to focus on the lines and the braking points.

I'm probably wrong but I imagine this "transition" would be easier with a wheel. I also imagine that braking would be easier/effective with pedals than the controller's trigers.

Anyway, I'm gonna give a try to MT mode on an easy track and see how it goes.
What advices could MT players could share to make this transition easier (like, the settings of the controller, etc).

Thanks again for this thread!

I use square for downshift and X for upshift - think of it like forward for downshift and backward for upshift just like a real sequential transmission. Throttle and brake are the triggers.

Manual shifting gives you much finer control over the car's powerband, throttle control, shift points/powerband, and advanced handling techniques under braking. For example, one of the bigges benefits is exiting a corner in a higher gear, say 3rd instead of 2nd, to help control wheelspin. Another benefit as that some cars accelerate notably faster by shifting early because the powerband dies out at high rpm, something the automatic transmission won't allow.

In my opinion, the only aspect of driving that is "easier" with a wheel is precision, but in a literal sense everything is physically more difficult because you're using more of your body. With a controller you're simply using your fingertips. Regardless, you're going to have to force yourself to practice with a manual transmission. If you've spend your entire GT career not using it then there's going to be quite a learning curve to apply advanced gear shift techniques.

 

[Pesselles]

I use square for downshift and X for upshift - think of it like forward for downshift and backward for upshift just like a real sequential transmission. Throttle and brake are the triggers.

Manual shifting gives you much finer control over the car's powerband, throttle control, shift points/powerband, and advanced handling techniques under braking. For example, one of the bigges benefits is exiting a corner in a higher gear, say 3rd instead of 2nd, to help control wheelspin. Another benefit as that some cars accelerate notably faster by shifting early because the powerband dies out at high rpm, something the automatic transmission won't allow.

In my opinion, the only aspect of driving that is "easier" with a wheel is precision, but in a literal sense everything is physically more difficult because you're using more of your body. With a controller you're simply using your fingertips. Regardless, you're going to have to force yourself to practice with a manual transmission. If you've spend your entire GT career not using it then there's going to be quite a learning curve to apply advanced gear shift techniques.

Thanks so much for your great feedback, really appreciated.

I'm aware that playing in AT have limits - I've reached them on Spa TT, for example - and if I want to improve my driving, and my times, I'll have no other choice than shift to MT.

I'm also aware that the driving is "a bit different" on MT and the learning curve could be longer for me as I always played in AT since GT 1.

For now, I don't plan to invest in a wheel and the full setup around, mainly beacuse I must be sure that I can drive as fast in AT and MT. And if I'm faster in MT with the controller, then maybe I could buy a wheel.

 

[Def-Infinity]

T150 user here.

No clue how much faster, but MT is just much better for getting the car to do certain behaviors exactly when you want them to. But... that level of precision seems to be needed only at the absolute top, where there are more ways to lose time during the lap than gain any. At some point you have to learn the specifics of how the car wants to be driven, and that includes optimal RPMs to upshift/downshift, not just down the straights but in the corners as well.

For short sprint races with no tire/fuel strategy, AT is serviceable, but not perfect. Its really nice not having to focus on when to shift and instead focus on the movements and balance of the car during cornering. Sometimes, but very rarely, that can make AT slightly faster.

 

[sonnyboychris]

As others have said, the MT provided a benefit in terms of control.