My Idea for very exciting GT5 races: so easy.. - PD please read !

[profi]

I understand that the developers of GT5 cannot put every little feature into the game, but i have an idea that would make a big difference in how exciting a race (Offline and Online) could be.

And this without causing the problem of framerate drops or thousands of lines of code to write for the developers:

So PD please read (..and think about it):

Everyone who already played GT4 perhaps experienced that in most cases a race (with opponents) goes like that:

After 1 or 2 laps you notice that either A. You are way faster than the others or B. The others are way faster than yourself

I fiddled around alot with the car settings to have some races where my own skills match close to those of the AI-cars.

So after a short time you know:
Case A. You will win the race
Case B. You will have no chance at all to win the race

Thats not how real life races work

In real-life you could be first and you never know if you will win until the Finish-Line ! (I've been a race driver myself years ago..)

And this makes the difference !

So how to put this into a computer game ?
Easy:

Every car (The players car, the AI-cars, the online.opponents-cars) gets a 1 percent chance of a (little) technical failure.

Not such a failure that would cause the car to quit running, no no..
Just a kind of failure which slows the car down a few seconds per lap.

Technical failures could be:
Loss of engine power (Just a little decrease, no engine damage)
Gearbox problems (Switching gears take a little longer than usual)
Losing Tyre-Pressure (One tyre looses grip)
Broken Exhaust Pipe (decreased engine-power)
...

This can all have a little ear- or eyecandy (A little smoke coming out of the hood, a strange engine-noise maybe..)

The Result of this:
Even if you are 20 seconds ahead of your opponents - you'll never know...
Even if if you are 20 seconds behind the leader - you always have the chance to win the race !

You will be excited until the end !
And the race would be over when it's over !

PS: Forgot to mention: You can also do a pit-stop for a repair, but you will have to decide if it make sense in respect to the time you'll loose.


How do you like my ideas ?


Ahh..
I wish you all a nice 2008 !

Robert

 

[Rykon Zero]

I like that idea Very well. I think it would be a very nice way of making things. Though 20 sec. either way is a huge gap.

 

[profi]

Nice you like it Stig, thank you.

For me it would make a total difference of gameplay if PD could add this feature.

Regards

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Nice you like it Stig, thank you.

For me it would make a total difference of gameplay if PD could add this feature.

Regards

Here's the more challenging part: how do you get PD to A) read this, B) listen to what you have to say and C) implement it?

 

[profi]

A. I hope..
B. I hope..
C. I hope..

And i also think there are clever boys and girls at PD...

 

[Rocket Punch]

Mechanical failures are in almost all PC race sim, which is a player selectable feature that gets rarely used by even the most hardcore players. When you bore it down to the core, a driving/racing game is supposed to be nothing more than a game of "action vs consequences" & "resource management". When you start to introduce a "roll of the dice" element into it, I think it will annoy 99% of PD targeted players than pleasing them. I think the online traffic already did enough to convey the "roll of the dice" element in the game.....

No one likes the idea of leading a race when you are the better driver but the game forces you to "roll a dice" to punish you for no reason. Unless PD can code the game to retain that "action vs consequences" & "resource management" element by taking into account of engine over revs, how "dirty air" affects engine heat built up, shifting manner, steering vs tire heat built up, tire flat spotting and the affect of road conditions on suspension components; then they might start thinking of how to tie those in with mechanical failure; which even then I don't see it is something most GT5 potential buyer would appreciate.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate you enthusiasm about the game but this I don't think is something PD's target customers are looking for.

 

[profi]

RocketPunch:

This feature should not be meant to have several players (or AI-cars) punished for nothing in each race. That would be annoying I absolutely agree.

I was talking of a 1 percent chance.

That means you have to do 100 Races to make a failure happen once !

A very rare chance, dont you agree ?

But your brain tells you in each and every race that it can happen.
And that makes the difference.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, same with the implimented physical damage, as well. I am subpar in skill, usually racing with my game controller. I'd like to turn the slider down on my game, so I can safely tag the wall off turn 2 at Darlington and stay in the race. Of course, I don't wallride (correction: I have no idea how to wallride) or punt a guy off track on prupose, but sometimes bump-drafting on the Test Track is just too hard to resist...

 

[Japspecvr6]

Not a bad idea.

 

[amar212]

Race Driver 3 (TOCA 3) has that mechanical-failure system perfected in theory. Praxis has been somehow fd-up because the final driving-model was too twichy.

If you run too much over the curbs/rumble stripes - you slowly damage your suspension.
If you over-rev the engine - you slowly damage your engine.
If you're braking too hard - you damage your tyres.
If you don't use the cluch in manual-shifting mode with clutch enabled - you damage the gearbox.
If you hit your car, or bump another vehicle - you slowly damage your steering.

Mechanical failures had nothing to do with luck, but with your actual driving. If you pushed too hard, your risk of damaging the car would rise exponentialy.

It was/is a truly great system, and I really hope something like that will be the mythical "GT damage" system as well. Nothing more than that is actually needed. Details such as braking the spoliers or damaging the intercooler would be nice, but simplicity is sometimes the key of success.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

A. I hope..
B. I hope..
C. I hope..

And i also think there are clever boys and girls at PD...

So you're just going to hope that they can read your mind without knowing who - or where - you are?

PD might check out the forums - any developer of their calibre would want to know what fans say - but it's probably not very high on their To Do list. If ver they look, it would probably be in the months following the release of a game so that they can get feedback on what worked and what didn't.

 

[Robin]

Race Driver 3 (TOCA 3) has that mechanical-failure system perfected in theory. Praxis has been somehow fd-up because the final driving-model was too twichy.

Its funny that Toca 3 had such great realism and it was released ages ago, I have it for PS2 and the AI is spectacular!

Learn PD Learn!!!

Robin

 

[The-BNA]

Good idea. I think they'll put something like it in when they do the damage system sometime down the road.

 

[Tenacious D]

As Rocket Punch says, I don't like it and I'd turn it off. I play a game to get away from the stupid issues of real life, like guns jamming in warfare. If there's some kind of random lottery, I want it to work in my favor, not against me. But I'm not going to deal with either type. If something goes wrong, I want it to be my fault, so I can learn from it.

By the way, I hate the bots in Toca 3 as much as Forza 1's. They would be banned on every GT5 server. Heck, I practically have flashbacks to Bathhurst every time I go online in Prologue. The only difference is the opponents are human at the other end of a wire in Prologue, and the Toca bots won't turn around and drive backwards.

 

[AOS-]

i think this is what serpearates GT from other Simulation Racing games..

Given the fact GT doesn't show damage to cars, why would they put in random changes to the car during a race? You know, if this was to happen it would definitely be a problem to car companies as they have cars that "randomly slow down or speed up"

 

[RC45]

As Rocket Punch says, I don't like it and I'd turn it off. I play a game to get away from the stupid issues of real life, like guns jamming in warfare.

Bingo.



I have a higly modified car in real life, and the "1%" struck me on track 2 months ago as I snapped a cam chain - and one rather large bill later for repairing smashed Titanium intake and Sodium filled exhaust valves and a new timing set the car is ready fo rthe track again... but the dose of "reality" was not enjoyable at all.

So such a system woul dneed to be selectable - I would leave it off till I finished the game and unlocked all the cars and tracks, then would turn it on for 'some" realism on the odd play day

 

[Dragonistic]

Hmm, what about if you're driving in the 24 hour race such as on GT4, and on 23 hours something it happens. Its just to harsh not matter how low the chance it could mess up a very big race for someone, if it was linked to how the driver has driven? fair enough, but random failures is something i would not like to experience, ever.

 

[The-BNA]

Bingo.



I have a higly modified car in real life, and the "1%" struck me on track 2 months ago as I snapped a cam chain - and one rather large bill later for repairing smashed Titanium intake and Sodium filled exhaust valves and a new timing set the car is ready fo rthe track again... but the dose of "reality" was not enjoyable at all.

So such a system woul dneed to be selectable - I would leave it off till I finished the game and unlocked all the cars and tracks, then would turn it on for 'some" realism on the odd play day

Hehe well... In this game that bill wouldn't be so heart breaking, and repair-time would be 5 seconds. I think it's a nice twist.

 

[sbursi]

I only think that sort of mechanical wear would work if it was mathematically dependent on how roughly the player drove the car. If the player is smooth, it happens less often, but it the player is harsh on the car, it happens more often. That way, better drivers get the benefit.

edit: spelling

 

[Sunny_Tk]

I only think that sort of mechanical wear would work if it was mathematically dependent on how roughly the player drove the car. If the player is smooth, it happens less often, but it the player is harsh on the car, it happens more often. That way, better drivers get the benefit.

i honestly like that idea, but again, i would turn it off if i could. if they put that in expert mode only, then i guess that would be more appropriate

 

[Fluke]

i love that idea, but if you hit someone lightly you may escape with no mechanical faults but a few scratches to the paintwork and if you hit them hard then you will start to notice small mechanical failures and the more car-to-car contact you have the worse it can get, this would definitely be great for the start of each race, where instead of it being a mad dash to get an early lead everyone would be a bit more wary of each other, and it would definitely make online mode a hell of alot more fun.

 

[RedOak]

The idea is good, the suggested way to implement it is not.

The problem is, "random" events are always frustrating; especially for the player. Mostly since they are not aware of the problem, and when it happens, its almost completely unexplicable to the player in a regular fashion (Take into consideration that about 90% of the GT consumers are not on these forums and are not "hardcore players). So that sort of feature is more then likely turned off at the first opportunity, or is off by default.

Forza Motorsport 2 did something interesting about their AIs; When you reach the "last 2-3 laps" of the race, all the AIs in front of the player "slow down" a little bit. I believe their state is altered by horsepower or tire usage (forced). For the regular player its not noticable, but makes a big difference when they are as they get the feeling that they are doing better and can win the race in a "photo finish" or very close 1st place; aka very rewarding. If you play the game, do a 5-6 laps at the hardest difficulty, stay in the back of the pack and notice the change in behaviour once you reach lap 4-5. All the cars slow down and are much more easier to pass.

The reason i'm talking about this is because it reminds me somewhat of this proposition (this thread) but implemeted in a seamless fashion for the "regular player", where this current proposition is very unclear and frustrating.

Also, the Toca3 - Car Damage by usage system is very cool and would fit GT5 very very well.

 

[Ben Aracin]

The idea of a random 1% chance of damage is not a good alternative to not having a TOCA3 damage system. While it was not tweaked enough like it needed, it is exactly what Pro mode GT needs.
Add the test drive : Eve of destruction cosmetic damage effects and there ya go.
Yes there should be a tun on/off setting, but then there should also be seperate servers so that those wanting it as real as can be can have thier racing leagus/turneys,etc and won't have to be included with those that want they're less punishing towards they're driving/racing fun.
By the way, The A.I. in TOCA3 should have been ripped off for this GT as well as it was very non botlike.

 

[Dragonistic]

i love that idea, but if you hit someone lightly you may escape with no mechanical faults but a few scratches to the paintwork and if you hit them hard then you will start to notice small mechanical failures and the more car-to-car contact you have the worse it can get, this would definitely be great for the start of each race, where instead of it being a mad dash to get an early lead everyone would be a bit more wary of each other, and it would definitely make online mode a hell of alot more fun.

Sorry but it will encourage many people to hit people as then theyve more chance of truly taking you out the race. Although many people like members here will look after their car, it wont stop those who would hit you anyway, theyre still gonna make a mad lunge up the inside and wreck both your cars.

Which is why it should be selectable online anyway, against Ai it could be on permanently (<spelling?) if the AI is clever enough.

 

[Dave A]

Race Driver 3 (TOCA 3) has that mechanical-failure system perfected in theory. Praxis has been somehow fd-up because the final driving-model was too twichy.

If you run too much over the curbs/rumble stripes - you slowly damage your suspension.
If you over-rev the engine - you slowly damage your engine.
If you're braking too hard - you damage your tyres.
If you don't use the cluch in manual-shifting mode with clutch enabled - you damage the gearbox.
If you hit your car, or bump another vehicle - you slowly damage your steering.

Mechanical failures had nothing to do with luck, but with your actual driving. If you pushed too hard, your risk of damaging the car would rise exponentialy.

It was/is a truly great system, and I really hope something like that will be the mythical "GT damage" system as well. Nothing more than that is actually needed. Details such as braking the spoliers or damaging the intercooler would be nice, but simplicity is sometimes the key of success.

Bingo, the idea of a random damage system where something fails for no reason other than a random counter in the game tells it to does not appeal to me. Mechanical damage that can be caused by the way your driving (shifting down too early, riding kerbs too much, bashing other cars too much, locking the wheels etc) does appeal. They don't even need visual damage to make this work, though that would be the icing on the cake.

 

[MasterFocus]

Have anyone ever see an endurance race at all?? whats exiting about seeing a race?? seeing 500 miles of nothing happening? even the team in first place dont even know if they will finish the race so why not in GT5? but for those who dont like that, just put an on/off switch for that option, and anyone here know how its rather easy to make some cash in GT so paying for repair wouldnt be to hard
by the way that was just my 2¢

 

[panjandrum]

I think this would be very interesting as an option. I imagine a lot of people wouldn't like it and would want to turn it off.

To make it even more interesting, it would be very amusing if this was based upon real-world reliability statistics. Thus, the British cars I love would break down all the time, while the Japanese cars would rarely have problems. The Jag E-Type for example, is a beautiful machine, but it was also a total reliability disaster. This is is also true for many other european cars. Some of the modern ones are still awful today (Fiat, anyone? anyone?). Having that type of reliability data in the game could add a real sense of fun and humor (in my opinion).