Should the Daily Races have tuning allowable?

[pedrocor]

Daily Race C is going to be a BoP option.
B is straight tuning
A will be a tuned with limited car selection

Not bad but not perfect.
Race A should be a limited car selection/supplied, but upgrading at all. Take the present High Speed Ring Race A. You dump a bunch of credits in a not so exciting car, just to be competitive. A car that you, otherwise, would use to win two races (assuming you get Licence B after Menu 1 and get the Clio), without any upgrade and put it in very back of your garage. And, as much as you upgrade, you never would be competitive with a Demio or a Fit, against the Aqua. Suprisingly tried one race, my first one in GT7 Sport mode at a not very popular hour (the sunday morning) and there were just B and C drivers, not the spread of rating through the field, so quite popular race. But dumped a lot of credits in the car, still losing some time due to not buying upgraded diffs and just making one weight reduction and adding 7kg of ballast, instead of going further and adding more ballast to better weight distribution.

And it should be a fourth race, endurance/strategy based, also with a BoP option.

Something like the GT Sport structure, but with a "straight tuning" race added, like the present Race B, with some tweaks, leaning more to PP and less to HP/Kg.

 

[Norrin Radd]

What people don't understand about the "Meta" issue is that for most players it doesn't apply yet they still fall for it.
Take GR2 in GTS, all 3 cars are competitive and on some circuits even the oldies had a chance, but the "Meta" car was used by most. Why you might ask, well it's easy people check what the aliens are using and think that's the car to use. Even in C races the "Meta" car was prevalent.
So far watching GT7 races the same is happening (maybe slightly less and that's probably because people don't have the cars and cash to tune them) Race C is becoming an Audi race.
If it would truly give variety I'd be for it, but it won't and it will put off casual players who just want to race. If they do a little for everyone it might work, but it might just split the playerbase too much.
I personally would love to see it in things like Manu, where your driving one car in different circumstances and can learn and improve your tuning. In dailies though it will actually encourage people to use the "Meta" after all someone like @Mistah_MCA will probably end up doing his excellent guide, but if he covers set ups he's not going to be able to cover every possible car.
Since tuning doesn't work perfectly (too many glitches where doing something has the opposite effect to expected) your average player is at a huge advantage.
If they do Tuning and PP and BOP everyone might be happy, but casuals want BOP.

 

[Mistah_MCA]

In dailies though it will actually encourage people to use the "Meta" after all someone like @Mistah_MCA will probably end up doing his excellent guide, but if he covers set ups he's not going to be able to cover every possible car.

Can confirm. It took me 2-3 hours to make an okay tune for the Mini Cooper in Race A... and then it took me 8 hours to make a tune for the Mazda Atenza for Race B. 😅 I don't want to imagine how it'll go if GT7 league races have tuning on.

 

[Rodelero]

But, that argument means there should ONLY BE tuning races, as those who don't care/know can just download/use the 'meta tune' and those who do know will tune their own car.....

If 'everyone' is using the same tune then you have BoP, but still leave the ability for people like me (and others) to tune their own cars.
Therefore we should have tuning races with a 'standard tune' to satisfy the BoP people.....

Come to the dark side, we have cookies...😋

This only really makes sense if the balance of cars is better with tuning enabled than disabled. As in a scenario where optimally tuned Gr.3 cars are as evenly matched than BoP Gr.3 cars -- and they aren't.

I definitely think you can theorise an ideal way of handling tuning, or an ideal way of handling BoP, that would be better than the status quo. But BoP is way closer to providing diverse/balanced racing than tuning.

 

[diablopug]

Your tunes are a game saver, I've probably used one of yours in the past. But how many hours would it take you to make a tune for every car and every track in the game 🤔🙄 it is a bit unfair for people to rely on tuners to create stuff for them. But maybe you do it for yourself and to help others. But the time it takes to find the tune/setup for a given car for one of the daily races does take time. Bit like grinding. Not quite enjoyable if your doing for something that's going to change within a few days. Then you might have to do it again the following week.

Can confirm. It took me 2-3 hours to make an okay tune for the Mini Cooper in Race A... and then it took me 8 hours to make a tune for the Mazda Atenza for Race B. 😅 I don't want to imagine how it'll go if GT7 league races have tuning on.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I have to admit that I was in favour of allowing cars to be tuned for dailies, but I am against it now.

IMHO, I do prefer the PP system to the BoP system, because I can still try to find a balance that works best for me. I definitely despise the power/weight limitations of the races. Power and weight limits has never resulted in a good outcome since GT5 (simply too many other variables).

They can lock out some tunes, so many just allow a limited adjustment (as they do with tires). Either way, I would be ok with the tunes being set to default for the daily races.

 

[tankuroded]

My perception on this issue is that:

• Tuning enabled: Meta car and meta tune (even with power/weight being locked to stock)
• Tuning disabled: Meta car

That means the only way to have meta altogether is make them one-make races, but that's not feasible.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Here is my case for tuning.

 

[xMAXIx79]

The most interesting thing is that some players are very "haphazard" and simply follow like a herd those who are better/stronger/faster without questioning or understanding why this is the case.
You could see that very well in GTS where there was only BoP. Although more in the lighter driver classes up to B (unfortunately I didn't make it to A in time to know what it was like there), but it was striking. A lot of rather weak to average drivers there still drove the meta car of the respective track because it enabled them to be on the road with the greatest possible "potential", their times were only limited by their own abilities.

Now you see e.g. in race B what happens when there are multiple possible metas because the perfect setting, the perfect setup for said cars gives sooo many possibilities. It may be that there will be a clear winner over time, but so far the top 10 have been mixed and I think that's a good thing and shows the potential of a PP-based vote.

I found a set-up for this week that worked very well for me all by myself after switching to a better/more optimal car quite early on. Now it's all about perfecting this setup day after day so that I can improve my theoretical optimal time even further and finally achieve it. At the moment my setup still has 1-2 very small difficulties, which is why I haven't made any mistakes in the laps yet, but I'm now consistently driving very low 2:04,xxx and, as I said, with my own setup and not with the help of an alien and on top of it I'm proud and that's exactly what gives me the fun I'm looking for in the game.

 

[Mistah_MCA]

Your tunes are a game saver, I've probably used one of yours in the past. But how many hours would it take you to make a tune for every car and every track in the game 🤔🙄 it is a bit unfair for people to rely on tuners to create stuff for them. But maybe you do it for yourself and to help others. But the time it takes to find the tune/setup for a given car for one of the daily races does take time. Bit like grinding. Not quite enjoyable if your doing for something that's going to change within a few days. Then you might have to do it again the following week.

In GTSport, I knew nothing about tuning, so I had to rely on others to help me out on that, and that was if they let me share it.

Right now, I'm a tuning noob, so I'm still trying to work things out.. which means it'll take me a while (read: hours) to reach a point where I can say that my tune is serviceable. At the rate I'm going, I don't think I'll ever finish making a tune for all cars for all tracks. 😅

 

[Voodoovaj]

I changed my vote.

The more time I spend with this, the more I like the tuning aspect. I feel like I own the results a little more. I like finding what suits me.

Also, they added the update screens that shows you how every little change affects PP and the performance. I love it.

 

[dabz343]

as I said, with my own setup and not with the help of an alien and on top of it I'm proud and that's exactly what gives me the fun I'm looking for in the game.

This is it. This is as legitimate a reason for playing GT7 as those that desire the simplicity of tuneless BoP. I think people get too hung up on their DR rating & winning. Understandable, it is a racing game after all. But if you step back a bit, pause on that need for winning a bit -- you may be able to find enjoyment that is more personal, long-term and rewarding.

Obviously GT has many types of fans. I say PD should satisfy both camps. Perhaps they can even think outside conventional ideas and create a daily that focus heavily on showcasing the aspects of tuning for those that want to learn...how? Well just as a thought starter, how about limiting the tuning to just gears, or gears & LSD...Ride height & camber? By isolating tuning components, drivers can progress by being introduced to what does what, and without the fear of having to put in huge chunks of time.

3 races are just not enough. PD, it's now time to think really hard about designing the framework for organizing races...not just ray tracing, weather, clouds, etc. (which I like btw).

 

[Norrin Radd]

This is it. This is as legitimate a reason for playing GT7 as those that desire the simplicity of tuneless BoP. I think people get too hung up on their DR rating & winning. Understandable, it is a racing game after all. But if you step back a bit, pause on that need for winning a bit -- you may be able to find enjoyment that is more personal, long-term and rewarding.

Although I can totally appreciate that point of view and think this should be catered to, I often like to jump in, grab a car and see how it goes. Next race I might change car or go to a different race and the fact that tuning is in every race means I can't do this. Then because tuning can make such a huge difference how can I ever gauge my skill level? GTS when pens were a thing I was a mid B with around 20K and because of this I could easily gauge which combos I was good at and those I really should be practicing, with the current set up I would only be able to know if I was fast or slow, not if I was improving or just had an awesome tune.
If you have loads of time and/or are at least DR A then tuning might be great, most players don't qualify for this. Race C should have been BOP this time and that at least is a good sign, unfortunately it shows that cheating will be possible and we still have a huge track limits problem.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Although I can totally appreciate that point of view and think this should be catered to, I often like to jump in, grab a car and see how it goes. Next race I might change car or go to a different race and the fact that tuning is in every race means I can't do this. Then because tuning can make such a huge difference how can I ever gauge my skill level? GTS when pens were a thing I was a mid B with around 20K and because of this I could easily gauge which combos I was good at and those I really should be practicing, with the current set up I would only be able to know if I was fast or slow, not if I was improving or just had an awesome tune.
If you have loads of time and/or are at least DR A then tuning might be great, most players don't qualify for this. Race C should have been BOP this time and that at least is a good sign, unfortunately it shows that cheating will be possible and we still have a huge track limits problem.

I am also a class B driver. For me it's a challenge to get effective setups for my cars.. and hey, it's called "Daily Races" but these races are active for a week at a time. So there is more than enough time to find a setup and ride it. My Oppinion.

But i'm also OK with one BoP Race each Week.

 

[dabz343]

Although I can totally appreciate that point of view and think this should be catered to, I often like to jump in, grab a car and see how it goes. Next race I might change car or go to a different race and the fact that tuning is in every race means I can't do this. Then because tuning can make such a huge difference how can I ever gauge my skill level? GTS when pens were a thing I was a mid B with around 20K and because of this I could easily gauge which combos I was good at and those I really should be practicing, with the current set up I would only be able to know if I was fast or slow, not if I was improving or just had an awesome tune.
If you have loads of time and/or are at least DR A then tuning might be great, most players don't qualify for this. Race C should have been BOP this time and that at least is a good sign, unfortunately it shows that cheating will be possible and we still have a huge track limits problem.

Yea, as I said previously, preserving GTS' BoP format is a good idea that some drivers will enjoy for very pragmatic reasons. But there is another part of the community that likes to take another approach. Why not have both ways available in GT7, and perhaps a hybrid version that takes the best from both?

And if you are keen on improving your skills, then I assert that getting into tuning -- and getting under the skin about vehicle dynamics -- is a great way to hone and craft your skills. For example, when you finally learn about comp/rebound damper adjustments in transient phase, you are far more aware of your steering & pedal inputs during entry, apex and exit.

Not to dimmish the value of BoP racing, but IMO, I see so many inexperienced drivers jumping from one meta car to the next, hoping to replicate what the leaderboard is doing -- and failing miserably at that, without having a clue as to why they are so off pace. This type of engagement doesn't usually have a benefit in the long run. That is why, for some, it makes more sense to make the best use of allowed time and get into the details that will help them to find pace eventually.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Not to dimmish the value of BoP racing, but IMO, I see so many inexperienced drivers jumping from one meta car to the next, hoping to replicate what the leaderboard is doing -- and failing miserably at that

All the top split A+ drivers just copy the meta as well.

 

[dabz343]

All the top split A+ drivers just copy the meta as well.

And your point is...?

 

[BigSarj]

Car tuning is a part of racing. I don’t get how some of you see it as a wasted time, but hotlapping the same car for a week is just dandy…

It gives people a chance to make the car behave how they like. I usually dislike stock setups, I have my own driving style which usually doesn’t suit these setups.

It also adds more variety to the race and it makes for a more engaging race, with more than one META car.

It’s just way more fun to drive a car they suits you, isn’t it? And that’s what driving is to me, about fun. I don’t care if my setup is slower or faster. I want my car to be predictable to my inputs and I wanna have fun.

And if I tune a car to suit my driving style, I may increase my car weight and/or tire wear, etc, so it may balance out.

 

[flimmelblitz]

Must admit I've grown to like the PP tuning. Takes some time to learn but I enjoy being able to adjust the car to my liking. I also like the variety it brings to the tracks (and to the top 10 fastest lap scoresheet). They should probably add a short tutorial to the game, though, to help bring people up to speed. Having sat in a car with a badly tuned motor for the first half of the week, it can be frustrating to see cars with the same PP rating zoom by without knowing why.

 

[Prelude514]

A case can be made for both, but I think I prefer tuning being disabled. It should be more about the driver's skills than his ability to find the most OP combination of knob tweaks IMHO.

 

[abrahamx]

tuning all the way. Way more fun. Bop sucks to me. I mean maybe make some races bop to make everyone happy but I like the tuning.

 

[abrahamx]

The more relevant question is ‘does open tuning encourage micro transactions?’

simple answer to me. Who cares? I will never pay to buy a car or a tuning part etc... I bought the game and anything else I buy will be with in game credits. I would never even consider paying real money for something in the game/any game. Encouraged or not. Just dont do it.