Should the Daily Races have tuning allowable?

  • Thread starter jrbabbitt
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Should the Daily Races have tuning allowable?


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Agree 100%. But I think main form of competition should still be BoP races. PP in GT7 seems a little less straightforward than I'd like.
Specially with tires having such an effect on PP. Can't see how it would work in endurance races, specially with more than a tire option. What PP would be calculated? With tires you start the race? With the softest tires in your garage? But you may not even use the softest option. Also the less grip, harder tire, usually isn't a disadvantage in endurance, it's the other way around.
 
I think, the best idea, would be to have both.

Some races with Fixed Car. and Some with Open Tuning, like in IRacing, then there is something for everyone :)
 
This thread is proof of vocal minorities in online social spaces. The overwhelming majority of people are voting no, but if you read all the posts you wouldn't get that.

I'm in favor of having both options because I don't like forcing my gaming habits on others. Leaderboards and things like that should reflect the type of race (BOP vs. Tuning).
Exactly. All they need is a nice balance. And I mean we pretty much had 1 Daily Race that was a single Spec Car, 1 Tuning Race and 1 BoP Race which frankly is the way for it to be.
and it would be nice to see them double up the count to 6 races. And 2 of each type.
 
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I don’t like tuning online because it’ll turn into meta cars and goofy tunes that only compete, like Forza.

They should accommodate both.
 
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Average gamer/parent here.

I wish they'd simply allow for each race to have a BOP option. I don't have the time, nor knowledge to really get into tuning. I'd much rather have a BOP option for the days where I have little time to game. Over the months, I'd dabble and eventually do some tuning but give me the option. I don't see what the problem is in giving us options.
 
Average gamer/parent here.

I wish they'd simply allow for each race to have a BOP option. I don't have the time, nor knowledge to really get into tuning. I'd much rather have a BOP option for the days where I have little time to game. Over the months, I'd dabble and eventually do some tuning but give me the option. I don't see what the problem is in giving us options.
Daily Race C is going to be a BoP option.
B is straight tuning
A will be a tuned with limited car selection
 
I think a "very good Driver" has to know how are to tune his Car.
Go check most of the streamers and you'll see this isn't the case. They are relying on the community to help them tune and most "very good drivers" are going to do the same either through places like this or straight Google searches. Look what happens on GTS when tuning races came up, everybody reporting how well they did and thanking whoever they got the tune off. What is the point of tuning if everyone is basically going to be using the same one? The fact that it seems people are going to the Meta cars too just makes this idea ridiculous. We are going to have less diversity in this game than in GTS.
 
Is this something that's been confirmed? Or at the very least heavily suggested? That's be great if true.
Based on what they have given so far, that seems to be the case one race with tuned specific car pick. One with full tune with PP limits and the third will be BoP(But BoP seemed like they still have a little work to do Because of a tuning exploit) but seems to me thats what we are gonna have. One of each of those flavors.
 
Before GT Sport, I was an avid tinkerer. Sport has made me realise how much I despise tuning.

The biggest appeal of Sport, and what set it apart from the other hardcore sims was that it had a "pick up and play" ethos to it—you didn't need to spend hours tuning your car for a specific circuit or finding a meta tune; you just hopped into a car of the category and go race. For a game that boasts great accessibility as a "simcade", that ease of entry I feel is invaluable to the game, and I'm sorely disappointed to see it go away in 7.

In the few races back in Sport that did allow tuning, what happened was that many resorted to a "meta" tune anyway, in the same way that they would've flocked to a meta car, so the argument of tuning allowing variety is something I don't buy. Heck, looking at the past week's daily races at HSR and Deep Forest, all we saw were Aquas and Peugeot VGTs respectively anyway.

What allowing tuning results in is an additional barrier to entry, be it finding a tune online to be competitive, or tuning a car yourself, which can cost time and (virtual) money in both cases. And for what, exactly? Just so everyone can drive the same car with the same setup?

I'm no tuning expert, but from what I've read, there have already been some PP exploits in GT7 Sport mode already with top speed shenanigans. The problem with tuning is that at some point, it simply comes down to who can find an exploit in the physics engine. Who here can really say that camber and toe adjustments behave in the game as they should in real life? Does stuff like rake angle and ride height affect downforce? Etc..

I shouldn't need to point out that none of this would've happened in Sport and its locked setting, BoP enabled races.

As I said, I used to like tuning, but as a single player thing. For competitive play, tuning has no objective benefit in my opinion. Sure, many Gr.3 cars drove horribly in Sport due to the careless "copy and paste" default suspension settings. But that just meant that everyone was on a level playing field, and that the competition was down to skill alone, instead of how much time and money a person is willing to sink into a race.

That said, I believe in offering options for everyone. I get that there are a lot of people out there who like to tune. I think it'd be a good idea if the weekly races stayed open settings, but have a new set of daily races to cater to the crowd that dislikes tuning. That way, the tuners can have ample time to find a setup for an event before it cycles out, and the pick up and play crowd can do just that with quick daily races.
 
That said, I believe in offering options for everyone. I get that there are a lot of people out there who like to tune. I think it'd be a good idea if the weekly races stayed open settings, but have a new set of daily races to cater to the crowd that dislikes tuning. That way, the tuners can have ample time to find a setup for an event before it cycles out, and the pick up and play crowd can do just that with quick daily races.
That's the best idea I've heard. Tuners can tune and non tuners get no idea what the days race is (preferably at least 2) just grab a car and go.
 
Copy? How? Do you think everyone just gives them away? Some, sure. Others, no. Gotta get on friendly terms with people you couldn’t be bothered with just to yoink their setups? Come on, man. Who does that?

There are dozens, possibly hundreds of people that devote immense amounts of time to tuning setups that then post them, many even take requests and tune cars based on time-sensitive events. The above link has their "garages" listed, and those are just the ones on gtplanet. The number of "tunes" is fairly low right now, but in a month you'll be able to find 5-6 different tunes, at different PP, even for specific tracks for every single car in the game.

Praiano's has been a mainstay in the tuning scene for over a decade, that would be my first stop if looking but there are many other very talented tuners that post their stuff as well. The copying of the top tuner's setups has very much been a thing in the franchise going back to the inception of gtplanet, possibly even further back than that. Millions of people do it, so no, it's not some pipe-dream, pie-in-the-sky idea, lol
 
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There are dozens, possibly hundreds of people that devote immense amounts of time to tuning setups that then post them, many even take requests and tune cars based on time-sensitive events. The above link has their "garages" listed, and those are just the ones on gtplanet. The number of "tunes" is fairly low right now, but in a month you'll be able to find 5-6 different tunes, at different PP, even for specific tracks for every single car in the game.

Praiano's has been a mainstay in the tuning scene for over a decade, that would be my first stop if looking but there are many other very talented tuners that post their stuff as well. The copying of the top tuner's setups has very much been a thing in the franchise going back to the inception of gtplanet, possibly even further back than that. Millions of people do it, so no, it's not some pipe-dream, pie-in-the-sky idea, lol
Thanks but I was already aware of the tuning section. Others aren’t though.

Even if I’m theoretically sitting on a super tune and use that to my advantage over others with worse ones or possibly none at all — wins or good results achieved that way just feel artificial and pretty stupid, wouldn’t you agree?

I’d much rather race knowing everyone’s on equal terms.
 
Thanks but I was already aware of the tuning section. Others aren’t though.

Even if I’m theoretically sitting on a super tune and use that to my advantage over others with worse ones or possibly none at all — wins or good results achieved that way just feel artificial and pretty stupid, wouldn’t you agree?

I’d much rather race knowing everyone’s on equal terms.
Nah, it's part of the game and always has been. I'm not a fan of BoP races as everyone ends up using whatever car puts up the quickest qualifying laps, and kind of made GT Sport a bore for me.

As it stands right now it looks like there is going to be a mix of both, so that seems like the better path forward anyway, as proponents of each system are pretty stuck in their beliefs.
 
Nah, it's part of the game and always has been. I'm not a fan of BoP races as everyone ends up using whatever car puts up the quickest qualifying laps, and kind of made GT Sport a bore for me.

As it stands right now it looks like there is going to be a mix of both, so that seems like the better path forward anyway, as proponents of each system are pretty stuck in their beliefs.
Apart from GT Sport then, “always”. And the argument about everyone going for same meta car in BoP situations doesn’t carry much weight as the same logic applies even when tuning and setups are a factor. Not like meta tunes are some kind of myth.

A mix of both is necessary at the very least.
 
Car tuning is a part of racing. I don’t get how some of you see it as a wasted time, but hotlapping the same car for a week is just dandy…

It gives people a chance to make the car behave how they like. I usually dislike stock setups, I have my own driving style which usually doesn’t suit these setups.

It also adds more variety to the race and it makes for a more engaging race, with more than one META car.

It’s just way more fun to drive a car they suits you, isn’t it? And that’s what driving is to me, about fun. I don’t care if my setup is slower or faster. I want my car to be predictable to my inputs and I wanna have fun.
 
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I've heard opinions from both sides of the fence. Some say that tuning is an important part of racing and therefore should be allowed; others say that tuning shouldn't be allowed in order to even up the playing field for those who cannot tune their cars, either due to lack of time or knowledge. I've had more success in leagues that permit tuning because I can adjust the car to my liking. Leagues that do not permit tuning are problematic because you're locked in to the same package every time. If you aren't comfortable with the car straight out of the box, you'll have a hard time. So in that regard, I think tuning should be allowed.
 
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Tuning and setups are two different things. I have said this before on other threads. And I say it again now. There is massive confusion here regarding what tuning means and what setup means.

Tuning is when you add aftermarket parts to a car, altering its power, handling and visual aspect. For example, wings, turbos, transmissions, ECUs...

Setup is when you adjust some parameters of the car, as-is, with the modifications it already has. For example spring rate, gear ratios, damper stiffness, downforce...

This thread will never go anywhere unless we learn to separate tuning from setup.
 
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I've heard opinions from both sides of the fence. Some say that tuning is an important part of racing and therefore should be allowed; others say that tuning shouldn't be allowed in order to even up the playing field for those who cannot tune their cars, either due to lack of time or knowledge. I've had more success in leagues that permit tuning because I can adjust the car to my liking. Leagues that do not permit tuning are problematic because you're locked in to the same package every time. If you aren't comfortable with the car straight out of the box, you'll have a hard time. So in that regard, I think tuning should be allowed.
I don’t wanna sound disrespectful or anything, but I think both reasons you mentioned why tuning is problematic for some people are invalid.

1. Time: if people don’t have enough time, they’re gonna have a bad time in daily races, since they literally force players to hotlap the combination to have any decent starting position.

Ergo: no time for tuning = no time for qualification = low chance of decent race result

2. Knowledge: this one is more straightforward. Learn. If people can learn how to drive, they can learn how to set upa car. How do people even understand driving without knowing hiw to setup a car? Seriously, if you wanna be a better driver, learn how to set up a car.

Just my two cents.

Tuning and setups are two different things. I have said this before on other threads. And I say it again now. There is massive confusion here regarding what tuning means and what setup means.

Tuning is when you add aftermarket parts to a car, altering its power, handling and visual aspect. For example, wings, turbos, transmissions, ECUs...

Setup is when you adjust some parameters of the car, as-is, with the modifications it already has. For example spring rate, gear ratios, damper stiffness, downforce...

This thread will never go anywhere unless we learn to separate tuning from setup.

I think it’s the partially the game’s fault. It fails to distunguish these two as well. In daily races it’s only (tuning + setups) or (Bop + no tuning + no setup)
 
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I don’t wanna sound disrespectful or anything, but I think both reasons you mentioned why tuning is problematic for some people are invalid.

1. Time: if people don’t have enough time, they’re gonna have a bad time in daily races, since they literally force players to hotlap the combination to have any decent starting position.

Ergo: no time for tuning = no time for qualification = low chance of decent race result

2. Knowledge: this one is more straightforward. Learn. If people can learn how to drive, they can learn how to set upa car. How do people even understand driving without knowing hiw to setup a car? Seriously, if you wanna be a better driver, learn how to set up a car.

Just my two cents.
It's just what I've been told by a league owner.
 
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In the end, it just depends where PD wants to go with this franchise; all the while keeping it accessible.

I race IRL (albeit dirt bikes at a somewhat high level). I put in no less than 5-6 hours of cardio each week to stay fit - Mainly because I lack the talent required at the top level, so might as well make up for it in fitness. Same for bike setup. I have my setups (across 3 different bikes) ironed out now, but it took me a bit to get there…and I still tweak.

What am I saying exactly??

Is that tuning is part of racing IRL. Preparation s part of racing.

But Gran Turismo isn’t real life. Neither is ACC or Iracing.

So how do we capture the essence of real life racing while maintaining its accessibility?

BOP is one. But it often failed in GTS.

Tuning, with presets available (a la ACC) is another, and works VERY WELL.

Downloading tunes from the top guys works too.

Having 2 tuning races and 2 BOP races works as well.

I just hope that whatever route PD takes, it toes the line between SIM and SIM-Cade, as artfully as they have with the masterpiece we call GT7



FWIW, I get beaten IRL quite often by more guys than I would care to admit, who are in worse shape, on older bikes, and on worse setups. The overlying factor in racing, has, and always will be….talent
 
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The problem I have with BoP is that it restricts your ability to have the car behave how you want.....
I prefer a lighter but more nimble car, something which takes the S's at Suzuka easily whereas others will prefer a heavier but more powerfull car.
Also I use my skill as an engineer to offset my not being one of the 'Top Drivers', I can tune my car to fit my driving technique and compete on equal terms with the 'Top Drivers' because my car perfectly fits my driving style. BoP denies me this ability to use one skill to compensate for lower skill in another area.

GTSport is an outlier in the Gran Turismo series; it is not Gran Turismo (number) same way as Forze Motorsport is not Forza Horizon. Gran Turismo was always about collecting 'normal production cars' and then buying parts to tune them to reach certain levels, the tuning is part of the game; can I take this stock Skyline and make it competitive? (Skyline due to the meme being GT had EVERY model of Skyline....)

Yes, Gran Turismo had track cars mostly because what car racing game doesn't have track cars? The enjoyment (at least for the group of people I used to race with) was never about Gr.3 etc but racing tuned production cars.

BoP always struck me as being a way to control the teams' engineers and force the racing to be about driver skill rather than who had the best engineering team. Whereas in a Computer Game we are BOTH the driver and the engineering team.

Maybe the compromise is to have BoP daily races during the week which then turn into tuning races at the weekend?
Or just have a 'metric s*** tonne' of daily races? 14million players, should be plenty to fill the rosters?




TL;DR I hate BoP and want tuning races but I know others feel the opposite....
To end: there are plenty of games which have BoP but Gran Turismo (number) was rare in having tuning production cars to race level.
 
BOYCOTT this PoS game Sony screwed us all on this one all it is, is GTS remastered ( a polished turd sold back to us for $69.99 ) and ps5 ppl just got a PS4 game formatted on a PS5 readable disc lmfao and the graphics actually look better on PS4 than on 5 I’m so glad I didn’t waste my money on this crap BoP’d racing was about who had the most skill not who had the most time of there life to waste grinding or money to waste this game is about one thing and one thing only $$$ Sony/PD seems not to care about there player base of this game
 
The problem is if you run BOP races you alienate the Tuners, you Run tuning races you alienate the casual users who like BOP. One thing I've liked about GT is the accessibility of the daily races. As my work shifts are funny, I sometimes only get an hour to jump online. Spending hours trying to find a tune then fine tuning it is ok if got few races with that 1 car like in a league. But the daily's I and most people I'd guess just want to jump online and have a quick race. I've managed to do a daily A on GTSport while T is in the Oven. 😁 That's one of the reasons I prefer BOP. Tuning is great for those with more time. I see GT halfway between SIM and arcade. Has the physics of SIM racing games like ACC and PC2 but the arcade easy access to online racing without having to set things up.
 
The problem is if you run BOP races you alienate the Tuners, you Run tuning races you alienate the casual users who like BOP. One thing I've liked about GT is the accessibility of the daily races. As my work shifts are funny, I sometimes only get an hour to jump online. Spending hours trying to find a tune then fine tuning it is ok if got few races with that 1 car like in a league. But the daily's I and most people I'd guess just want to jump online and have a quick race. I've managed to do a daily A on GTSport while T is in the Oven. 😁 That's one of the reasons I prefer BOP. Tuning is great for those with more time. I see GT halfway between SIM and arcade. Has the physics of SIM racing games like ACC and PC2 but the arcade easy access to online racing without having to set things up.
It's not really about 'casual', to be honest. It's that tuning doesn't really add any depth to the game. It would be one thing if there was no feasible way to share tunes, such that there was a genuine skill in tuning your car, but because there is and because the vast majority of people are just going to find out what the meta car is and combine it with a meta tune all it ends up being is busywork. And aside from this being pointless, it also clearly leads to less diverse and less balanced car lineups.
 
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It's not really about 'casual', to be honest. It's that tuning doesn't really add any depth to the game. It would be one thing if there was no feasible way to share tunes, such that there was a genuine skill in tuning your car, but because there is and because the vast majority of people are just going to find out what the meta car is and combine it with a meta tune all it ends up being is busywork. And aside from this being pointless, it also clearly leads to less diverse and less balanced car lineups.
But, that argument means there should ONLY BE tuning races, as those who don't care/know can just download/use the 'meta tune' and those who do know will tune their own car.....

If 'everyone' is using the same tune then you have BoP, but still leave the ability for people like me (and others) to tune their own cars.
Therefore we should have tuning races with a 'standard tune' to satisfy the BoP people.....

Come to the dark side, we have cookies...😋
 
When I did some races in a league during the 1st pandemic I used the Caymen Gr4. With BOP it is a gutless crap car. But managed to find a tune online after trying a few different ones. I still had to tweak the settings but I probably spent 4+ hours in doing that. Then a further 1+ hour for each race to tweak it to the circuit we was using at the weekend. Now my work shifts have changed completely and I'm lucky if I get online some days. BOP does need tweaking I admit. But one choice you have is do you look at the top 10 times and choose that 'meta' car. Usually the RCZ or the Supra FT1. Personally I try use another car not in the top 10, and have more fun (trying to) beating those that have just copied what car the fast times are using. I'm no A/A+ rated driver but have won some races and done well enough to get to B. End of the day it's how each individual gets their kicks our of the game. And how PD can improve on that so everyone can enjoy it
 

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