My T500RS "Even Stiffer" Brake Mod

  • Thread starter mrbasher
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Great idea and thread.


After I got my 83's sorted I gave it a shot. Two 83's is quite stiff, but still usable. The consistency was there but the feel towards max brake was a bit too much effort. I did a 30 minute session and it wasn't bad, but I think I'm focusing more on pressure needed rather than brake modulation. It's not natural.

After I turned the whole rig off I removed one bushing and the pressure felt spot on. I'll try it in the sim tonight.

Once again. Brilliant idea!!
 
Awesome! From what I'm reading, I think anything above 80 with two bushings is probably going to be too hard. It also leads me to believe mine must be 70's... (or there abouts)

This might help bring into perspective why some of these are so hard: (skate bushings are rated in Shore A durometer) As you can see, the hardness ramps up pretty quickly at the high end...
durometer.gif
 
I bought bushing 88a today. Tried for a 30 min and i love it. Got into a race, without preparation even a lap. And it felt perfectly normal. Pressed for a few seconds to the floor and it worked. Don't know if i press stronger than on calibration if that is a new point of calibration, need to investigate. I played rfactor.
 
Just to confirm my findings from last night. 1 83a is perfect. 2 83's is too much (pretty much what others are saying).

Love the upgrade!
 
I'm using a single coned 81a brushing from amazon. So far, I'm getting better lap times and being more consistent. I like it, however, it requires me to wear a shoe which I don't prefer but don't mind too much. Also its very hard, the distant the pedal moves now is almost nonexistent. It maybe moves half an inch then resistance starts hitting hard. Is that what everyone is experiencing with this mod? Pedal hardly moves when pushed?
 
It don´t move that much in stock configuration either. You can check with diview if you take full advantage of the pot or how much it´s short calibrated. With the mod in the short travel slot you only use about 25 % of the pot :)
 
I still think that bushing might be too hard. I don't know. Maybe I have strong legs. :)

My pedal is easily moving more than an inch and that's with two bushings in there. The first half of travel is pretty easy though it does require pressure of course. The last half is progressively much stiffer. Remember though, when pressing a real car brake you are really mashing it for full lockup.

I just ordered 10 sets of Khiro 73a durometer bushings. I didn't realize finding them locally might be a pain when I posted this and finding them online for a decent price seems spotty.

So... Once I have them, if anyone wants I can make you a plate and send you it with the bushings. I'm not looking to make a bunch of money off this, I can't anyhow since if you really wanted you could just order them online somewhere ;)

Shipping will vary so PM me if you want. oqvist, I'll send you a PM with the info after I get home and can weigh the bushings I currently have.
 
mrbasher
I still think that bushing might be too hard. I don't know. Maybe I have strong legs. :)

My pedal is easily moving more than an inch and that's with two bushings in there. The first half of travel is pretty easy though it does require pressure of course. The last half is progressively much stiffer. Remember though, when pressing a real car brake you are really mashing it for full lockup.

I just ordered 10 sets of Khiro 73a durometer bushings. I didn't realize finding them locally might be a pain when I posted this and finding them online for a decent price seems spotty.

So... Once I have them, if anyone wants I can make you a plate and send you it with the bushings. I'm not looking to make a bunch of money off this, I can't anyhow since if you really wanted you could just order them online somewhere ;)

Shipping will vary so PM me if you want. oqvist, I'll send you a PM with the info after I get home and can weigh the bushings I currently have.
Click to expand...

The pedals you're describing, is that with the Khiro 73a? I'm thinking I need softer ones like those now...

Also, how does the 73A's compare to the real brake mod with spring that the t500RS comes with??
 
I'm currently experimenting with some other ideas in my quest to find the perfect setup (I'll probably never be satisfied haha). Last night I did 2 one hour races in V8SC in iracing with bare feet. Although the control was really consistent during braking , the pedal was too firm for my liking.

One thing I have found is that the durometer rating of skateboard bushings doesn't seem to make a lot of difference in this application. I think thats because the hole in the bushing is compressed until it is closed when the brake is applied. After that , the softness of the bushing can be factored in but thats right at the end of the pedal stroke. I went to my local skate shop again today and compared the 78 and 90 bushings I already have with all of the others the had in stock. I didn't notice much difference compressing them all on the shop counter.

Ideally , I'd like to using all of the available stroke of my pedal and have the progressive feel of Bashers bushing mod. Today I removed the bushing and retainer plate and fitted some thicker rubber to the TM real feel plate (with spring removed) This uses more stroke now and has good progression. My brake foot will be happier for now anyway:)
 
The 73 is noticeably softer when compared to a 90 for instance. 90 is about what the bushings on a car suspension uses and they are quite hard. I'm not joking, that's the durometer of them ;) The 78 you found really shouldn't be bad at all to use, though I don't know what it would feel like with bare feet... I can say though that it would be hard to tell until you had the bushing in the brake and were pressing on it with your foot. As strong as some peoples hand may be, it's nothing compared to the pressure generated right where that bushing sits.

Rekki. The stock Real Mod, really doesn't feel that great with the spring in there because the spring is not strong at all. That's just my opinion though. If you move it closer and remove the spring, then you are only acting on the rubber portion which would feel better. That's what it sounds like spinner is doing.

On another note... I can see how more travel would be nice. Maybe when I get some free time, maybe this weekend or something, I will machine a new bracket that sits deeper/further back. Then a larger rubber piece or spring could be placed there, allowing more travel.

I can say that I have a set of CSP v2 pedals sitting here and the difference between the two green bushings and that is negligible... The main difference is the amount of pressure required for full braking. I'd worry about busting the load cell after awhile at these pressures. (considering how many people break their CSP load cells...) I haven't tried one of my bushings yet... I would think it would be pretty soft. Can't hurt to try :D
 
Yeah , I agree squashing the bushings by hand is hardly accurate but I have installed both the 78 and the 90 and haven't found a noticeable difference either. Sounds like these 2 are actually very similar in durometer rating compared to the ones you have tried.

Anyway here's a pic of the rubber block I have installed compared to the original. There is no free play , the pedal is already on the rubber at the top of its stroke. Its about the same density as the soft layers in the original pad. I'm getting about 30mm of stroke at the tip of the pedal , about 50% more than with the skate bushings. Having a little more stroke helps when trail braking I have found.

8283173781_570666576d_o.jpg
 
Yesterday I put my pedals in GT style and like it a lot more than F1 style, however since my retainer plate hasn't come in, my bushing kept falling out, so I removed it, and tried the real break mod for the first time but w/ just the rubber part and no spring.

What I found was that I like this feeling of the break, I was also getting good lap times and was being consistent. However, this could be because I have been playing on the same track all this time and getting better at it. I think I might have to play a little more with this setup to see if I'm as consistent as the bushing mod. What I do like about the rubber is that it gave me resistant at the end of travel, and that the break pedal actually travels like my car instead of having little to no travel and being very stiff (makes it hard to heel+toe). What I would like is a little more resistance at the beginning but not enough where the pedal doesn't travel, and then more progressive stiffness at the end (like spinner using all of the pedals available travel).

I think a fix to my problem would be a softer bushing (currently using 1 coned 81a) or a bigger rubber block like the one Spinner is testing out.

Spinner where did you get that rubber block and how do you like it?
 
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I have a store nearby that sells rubber in all shapes and sizes. This stuff is 38mm X 23mm in section and was on a big roll. You could buy 50 metres if you wanted ! I bought 30 cm for about $3

Like I said , it could be better to get more stroke at the pedal but I'm happy at the moment......and so are my bare feet :D
 
spinner
I have a store nearby that sells rubber in all shapes and sizes. This stuff is 38mm X 23mm in section and was on a big roll. You could buy 50 metres if you wanted ! I bought 30 cm for about $3

Like I said , it could be better to get more stroke at the pedal but I'm happy at the moment......and so are my bare feet :D
Click to expand...

nice find spinner, I was thinking doing exactly that, with double tape on to the place of original rubber block, I need harder ones but, panic stomp kills my lap time :nervous:
 
spinner
I have a store nearby that sells rubber in all shapes and sizes. This stuff is 38mm X 23mm in section and was on a big roll. You could buy 50 metres if you wanted ! I bought 30 cm for about $3

Like I said , it could be better to get more stroke at the pedal but I'm happy at the moment......and so are my bare feet :D
Click to expand...

Do you have the name for it, or something that is similar online that I can see?
 
rekki
Do you have the name for it, or something that is similar online that I can see?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry , I dont know what type of rubber it is. I would only be guessing to show you something online. The store I bought from doesn't have a website. It is very similar (maybe the same ?) material as the 2 soft layers on the TM rubber pad.

oqvist
How spongy does your brake pedal get spinner? Nixim brake mod use a lot of rubber and it get a bit spongy as result :)
Click to expand...

It is fairly soft at the start of the stroke but very firm near the end. I cant compress it totally with my foot. At full braking , the 23mm thickness is squashed to about 10mm thick. This is with the TM plate mounted as far back as it can go. I hope that is what you wanted to know :)
 
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No I wanted to know if it has a spongy feel when you go to heavy breaking. Like your feet get into a self oscillation and want to bunch back some.
 
No , its very firm under heavy braking. Its very progressive feel through the whole stroke. At the top of the stroke , the rubber isn't noticeable. At the end it is compressed into a solid block.
 
Got some Khiro 73's and I am liking this a lot more than my 81a that I had bought earlier. I feel like it gives me the perfect amount of resistance for me and will be using this mod from now on :D.

Thanks MrBasher for the great mod and for the bracket you sent me, using them in the GT style :)
 
you can always bore the center hole of the skate bushing out some more,this will give you a little more travel and easier to compress while still retaining the firm pedal all the way.
 
I have 9 sets of the Khiro 73A bushings now if anyone needs them. One set goes to oqvist if he wants them. (I replied to your PM) ;) I can provide the plate as well of course.

As for drilling the bushing.. Great idea! The bushings have a 0.375 inch hole in them (3/8") Holding it while you drill it won't be the easiest thing in the world though... Finding a pipe of some sort that would hold the bushing snuggly would be the safest way. Please don't hold it in your hand and try to drill it. The drill will catch and you'll get cut. You've been warned ;)

You should be able to mount it in a vise so pressure is on it's front and back faces, such that you can get to the hole. Then drilling is seems easy enough.
 

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