Nürburgring: GT4 vs EPR vs Real

[Adam West]

Marketing.

 

[Scaff]

OK I have looked into a few of these issues in a bit more detail and come up with the following.

Track Length
Every source I have looked at for the real Nurburgring lists the Nordschleife's length as 20.832 kms, which converts to 12.94 miles.

The official GT4 guide lists the games track length as 12.94 miles, which does match. However being the untrusting individual that I am, I took my brand new (0.00 miles) VW Golf GTI '76 for a gentle trip around the Nordschleife, aiming for a 12 minute lap (for reasons I will get to).

I paused the lap the very moment that the lap counter clicked over to 2 (the car was doing less than walking pace at this point) and the on-screen odometer was reading 12 miles, however this only reads to whole numbers.

So I quit out of the lap and headed home for a quick look at the garage mileage reading (which is to 1 decimal place), the result 12.9 miles.

I have to say thats accurate enough for me.




Track Width
This one is still a subjective opinion, but personally having visited the Nordschleife on a number of occations I do not believe that the width is that far out. It must also be taken into account that the game does not view the world in exactly the same way we do, and depending on if you use an in-car view or external will change the perspective.



The two shots above contrast the real with GT4, both are taken around the Brunnchen section of the track, and while its in hardly scientific, again I would say that the differences are small.

Brightness of the track
I must confess that this one annoys me more than anything else, Germany is allowed to have good weather, with nice bright sunny days, as the real shot above shows.

If you prefer the Enthusia look and want the track to look darker, just pause the game and use the display option, set the brightness a bit lower and away you go.

Bumps
Now I am not silly and to dispute that GT4 has exagerated a few of the jumps would be just that, silly. They are a bit over the top, but to be fair so is the way that we take them, I've always back off from them on my visits and I'm damn sure that no competitor in the 24hrs would want to ruin there race just to get a bit of air.

Would you do this in a Primera, I would in GT4, but I didn't in reality!


However the strength of the bumps in the GT4 version I do not feel is over the top (but Enthusia's version is far, far too smooth). This was the reason I aimed for a 12 min lap, the time Wolfe2x7 says he go around in, it makes a massive difference to how they feel. 12 min laps are an average of 60-65mph, compare that with an average of 90mph for an 8 min lap.

Additionally the road car bias of the rental BMW suspension would not be similar to the set-ups we use for most of our cars in GT4. Try a gentle 60mph average drive aroundthe GT4 'ring, you may be surprised at the difference it makes.

Start/Finish line
Famine hit this one on the head when he quite correctly stated that GT4 uses the original Start/Finish line for the track. Now while the official site shows the new Start/Finish on its map (as does the site for the 24hrs), just about every other map or site you look at (including a BMW track guide I have, uses the old Start/Finish line.

Guess this one must just be down to history.

Overall
In my personal opinion PD did a damn good job with the GT4 version of the 'ring, it still gets my vote as one of the most accurate around and the following post which contains extracts from an article with Nick Heidfeld regarding driving a new M5 on the 'ring and how it compares with GT4.

Nick Heidfeld & the 'ring


I hope that the above is of interest and helps to explain my take on this subject.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Braddock]

I cant seem to find the video link to the side by side comparison. Help??

 

[Scaff]

I cant seem to find the video link to the side by side comparison. Help??

Here you go, left click to open the link and download the video. Do not try to right click and save as, because it will not work. Just left click and away you go.

Ruf Vs GT4 Time warped Video

Regards

Scaff

 

[De Bolle]

What's there besides no laws?

Zandvoort.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Zandvoort.

And Assen. 👍

 

[Hun200kmh]

I had neither the time nor the patience to sit through enthusia and unlock the ring and all the other various tracks. that game is just so ridiculously boring and lifeless.

My experience is totally oposed to what you wrote. I bought Enthusia mid-May, and by that time I had already done everything a reasonable person can do in GT4 alone and without using B-Spec. All licenses, all races, all championships, all missions, all halls, with the exception of the long enduros and the Formula Championship (only way to get the F1 is to do the 24 hours Nurb ).

By mid-June, I had already raced everything there is to race in Enthusia. So, here comes the question of replayability. What game to choose, if you just want to do a race (or several) with no "completion rates" still in mind? And I ALWAYS choose Enthusia. It has lesser graphics, lesser overall "polishing", but ... it also has better (and much more chalenging) physics, better (and very different from car to car) sounds and ... still not perfect, but definitely ... BETTER AI.

Don't get me wrong, I've been a fan of the GT series and I still am. And I'll buy GT5 the day it's released, just as I did with GT4. But I really think Enthusia deserves a better review than what you wrote.

Back on topic. I like GT4's Nurb more than the Enthusia one. It's maybe a litle too bumpy, but I like that, and I'm sure it isn't as smooth as the Enthusia version. Besides, the Enthusia layout is much too dark. But, then again, what I would like is to drive the GT4 Nurb track layout in a Enthusia car and against Enthusia's AI drivers.

The world isn't perfect, and neither are PS2 games. Let's hope that with the PS3 we get what we want, both from PD and from Konami.

 

[Braddock]

Thanx a bunch Scaff, That video is too neat. Ive been looking for a video run at the Ring like that. Do yall know of any others out there on the web?

 

[De Bolle]

And Assen. 👍

[offtopic] Would be a great track for GT5..... [/offtopic]

 

[Kolyana]

Scaff ... great posts and a great read, thankyou.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff ... great posts and a great read, thankyou.

No problem, thanks for the compliment.

Regards

Scaff

 

[niky]

Great posts, man. Some of this should be stickied.

 

[zonekill]

Track Width
This one is still a subjective opinion, but personally having visited the Nordschleife on a number of occations I do not believe that the width is that far out. It must also be taken into account that the game does not view the world in exactly the same way we do, and depending on if you use an in-car view or external will change the perspective.

Yep, this is also what I was thinking. It all comes down to the perspective you are watching at it. I visited the Ring quite often and driven there 1 Lap. I also watched many videos with different perspective.

In game your TV display is 2D, in real life you can see much more of the track to the left and right.

Also regarding the bumps, when you have a racecar with stiff suspension its bumpy as hell, but with a family saloon its smooth.

And remember, that in GT4 you "always" race at maximum attack you will never experience the Real Nordschleife that way!

 

[Scaff]

Yep, this is also what I was thinking. It all comes down to the perspective you are watching at it. I visited the Ring quite often and driven there 1 Lap. I also watched many videos with different perspective.

In game your TV display is 2D, in real life you can see much more of the track to the left and right.

Also regarding the bumps, when you have a racecar with stiff suspension its bumpy as hell, but with a family saloon its smooth.

And remember, that in GT4 you "always" race at maximum attack you will never experience the Real Nordschleife that way!

Quite agree with you, thats why I used the Golf GTI and aimed for a lap time of about 12mins, its much more representative of how, in reality we drive the 'ring.

The bumps are almost totaly gone, it realy brings into focus how hard this track must be to race, particularly at night during the 24hrs.

Regards

Scaff

 

[rsmithdrift]

I think that the GT4 version is the most realistic.

Check out this vid. It's a RUF Porche 911 with a 8:17.xxx laptime in real life on Nurburgring Nordschleife.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/...acing-videos/ruf-porsche---stefan-rosler.html

and compare that to the video that 3rdgenracerX did of a stock RUF CTR '87 on the same course with a similar lap time. An 8:02.6xx I beleive.
http://www.3rdgenracerx.net/87yellowbird.wmv

 

[VTRacing]

That RL one is a cool vid.

Watching the first minute or two I thought "That guy's a lunatic!" (Flugplatz)

Then for the next couple of minutes I thought "No, no he's ok. He's got it under control."

By the end of the lap (particularly after Pflantzgarten) I was back to thinking "That guy's a lunatic"

Why oh why would you want to drive a "Yellowbird"? That is the scariest-handling thing I've ever seen.

 

[FooAtari]

I think that the GT4 version is the most realistic.

Check out this vid. It's a RUF Porche 911 with a 8:17.xxx laptime in real life on Nurburgring Nordschleife.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/...acing-videos/ruf-porsche---stefan-rosler.html

and compare that to the video that 3rdgenracerX did of a stock RUF CTR '87 on the same course with a similar lap time. An 8:02.6xx I beleive.
http://www.3rdgenracerx.net/87yellowbird.wmv

Nice videos! But anyone had the RL stop about half way through because media may not ahve the codec used to compress this file....

 

[Dr.AK]

That RL one is a cool vid.

Watching the first minute or two I thought "That guy's a lunatic!" (Flugplatz)

Then for the next couple of minutes I thought "No, no he's ok. He's got it under control."

By the end of the lap (particularly after Pflantzgarten) I was back to thinking "That guy's a lunatic"

Why oh why would you want to drive a "Yellowbird"? That is the scariest-handling thing I've ever seen.

I believe the guy who drove the Yellowbird in that video owns the RUF company or at least works in a high place there. At least I read something like that once.

And I for one would sure like to drive that thing in real life. But only if I had more than 20 yeas of driving and racing experience.

 

[Verbal]

I believe the guy who drove the Yellowbird in that video owns the RUF company or at least works in a high place there. At least I read something like that once.

And I for one would sure like to drive that thing in real life. But only if I had more than 20 yeas of driving and racing experience.

That's Ruf test driver Stefan "Sideways" Roser, and apparently they don't call him that for nothing. Totally nuts, but awesome car control.

 

[ZeratulSG]

Actually, the CTR wasn't faster than the 120i, and the 120i didn't just keep up with the CTR...

I posted this on a ring thread but I don't think it's been posted before. It's a side by side clip of 4 minutes at Nürburgring, real life footage of a RUF Porsche and footage from the BMW demo, done by me a few months ago:

https://www.gtplanet.net/index.php?c...&p13_fileid=179

I time-stretched the BMW video so both cars hit the curves at the same time, very impressive IMO. You have to remember there's a camera position difference in the clips and more important, the field of view is different too.

"Time-stretch" means "slow down."

Well maybe he chose the wrong words, but what he MEANT was that he sped up the BMW video. If you watch the clip, you can see very clearly that the BMW video is sped up.

 

[Gabkicks]

i thought stefan roser's nickname was "dr. drift"

 

[ZeratulSG]

Except on racetracks..and besides the T&Cs of the rental are dealt with by the rental agency and not by BMW!

Except that the Nordschleife is not considered a racetrack, it's considered a road, so you don't need track insurance (only for the GP track). If an accident happens there the cops have to investigate (must get tiresome for them)

 

[GordonS]

I think that the GT4 version is the most realistic.

Check out this vid. It's a RUF Porche 911 with a 8:17.xxx laptime in real life on Nurburgring Nordschleife.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/...acing-videos/ruf-porsche---stefan-rosler.html

and compare that to the video that 3rdgenracerX did of a stock RUF CTR '87 on the same course with a similar lap time. An 8:02.6xx I beleive.
http://www.3rdgenracerx.net/87yellowbird.wmv

Kind of off the topic but..
3rdgenracerx! Some virtualblackbeltasskickingdriving there man, and with N1s!!! 👍 👍

 

[Zer0]

I think that the GT4 version is the most realistic.

Check out this vid. It's a RUF Porche 911 with a 8:17.xxx laptime in real life on Nurburgring Nordschleife.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/...acing-videos/ruf-porsche---stefan-rosler.html

and compare that to the video that 3rdgenracerX did of a stock RUF CTR '87 on the same course with a similar lap time. An 8:02.6xx I beleive.
http://www.3rdgenracerx.net/87yellowbird.wmv

http://content.faculty.de/lfs/user/incognito/gt4vsrl.wmv

 

[rsmithdrift]

http://content.faculty.de/lfs/user/incognito/gt4vsrl.wmv

You Picture in Pictured it!!!! Awesome!!! Just more proof of how good a job PD did recreating this track.

 

[SavageEvil]

Just finished watching the video and I am still amazed at how that guy controls the CTR like that, nothing but tire squeals. That comparison is the best one I've seen yet, GT4's is very close to the real one only a few things are a lil off, but that's expected, videogame perspective vs real life, some things look differently. PD really did a number on this course, wonder if we can get some comparison vids of Laguna, le Sarthe, Suzuka and the lot too.

Really wanna know about Laguna, since i have both Forza and GT4 and i find it difficult to find apexes in Forza as opposed to GT4's version.

Here's hoping that PD adds more courses like Road America and Atlanta, and the full Nürburgring Nordschlieffe, as i have looked over the walls in GT4 and seen a lil bit of the inside F1 course, that would be awesome magnititude to race that with 29 other cars.

 

[3rdgenracerX]

That RL one is a cool vid.
Why oh why would you want to drive a "Yellowbird"? That is the scariest-handling thing I've ever seen.

A drivers car is a fun car to drive The Yellowbird is a real drivers car that's difficult to drive, demands full concentration and amazing skill to push it to its limit. All of that put together makes a for a fun day of driving.

nothing but tire squeals.

Street tires scream like mad when they are given a major flogging Scary as it sounds Stefan's driving the car around the fast way!

Kind of off the topic but..
3rdgenracerx! Some virtualblackbeltasskickingdriving there man, and with N1s!!!

Thanks, N1's are really the way to go with this car for getting the semi most realistic possible times to compare with a grain of salt to real life times.
N2's are just way too easy to equal Stefans in traffic lap time and you look no where near out of control as he does during your lap.

 

[ZeratulSG]

Yeah, but don't forget the guy is drifting around most of the turns. That isn't exactly the fastest way around a track.

 

[FooAtari]

Just finished watching the video and I am still amazed at how that guy controls the CTR like that, nothing but tire squeals. That comparison is the best one I've seen yet, GT4's is very close to the real one only a few things are a lil off, but that's expected, videogame perspective vs real life, some things look differently. PD really did a number on this course, wonder if we can get some comparison vids of Laguna, le Sarthe, Suzuka and the lot too.

Really wanna know about Laguna, since i have both Forza and GT4 and i find it difficult to find apexes in Forza as opposed to GT4's version.

Here's hoping that PD adds more courses like Road America and Atlanta, and the full Nürburgring Nordschlieffe, as i have looked over the walls in GT4 and seen a lil bit of the inside F1 course, that would be awesome magnititude to race that with 29 other cars.

Their is a comparison of Forza Laguna and RL Laguna, would need to hunt about for it though. IMO Forza has Laguna nailed, but GT is a little off, especially with Corkscrew, its not steep enough. Road Atlanta is spot on as well in Forza.
If you have a look around the IGN Forza board their is quite a lot of comparison stuff their.
But GT4's Ring looks to be closer than Forza's. Anyone know if their is a similar comparison with Forza and RL side by side. Or at least a video of someone going flat out in Forza to compare with the GTvRL video above.

 

[Gabkicks]

i think one of the most amazing things about gt4 is the track detail.. the tracks are all so close to real life. maybe the buildings and posts have changed a bit, but the track and elevations are very very close. I doubt any other dev team was as fanatical about getting the nurburgring into their game. Yamauchi;s been obsessed with it for years.