NASCAR Thread.

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I think they'll find a way to spin this as something negative towards NASCAR. They'll probably say NASCAR gets drivers that cannot survive in F1 or something. And when Villeneuve and JPM struggle on the ovals they'll say thats because they're washed up. They'll never give any credit to NASCAR because they are ignorant of the sport and ignorance breeds hate

Anybody else think American Openwheel racing and NASCAR deserves their own individual forum? I think its kind of unfair to give F1 it's own forum but squish ALMS, NASCAR, IRL, WRC, and Champ Car into 1 large thread a piece into a generic 'drifting and other motorsport' foru m
 
Earth
I think they'll find a way to spin this as something negative towards NASCAR. They'll probably say NASCAR gets drivers that cannot survive in F1 or something. And when Villeneuve and JPM struggle on the ovals they'll say thats because they're washed up. They'll never give any credit to NASCAR because they are ignorant of the sport and ignorance breeds hate
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thats very true and its the one reason I hate hardcore F1 fans because Like Hardcore NASCAR fans, they think they're sport is perfect, that there is nothing wrong with it and anyone that leaves to go over to another soprt is washed up and couldn't take it. BTW, thats what they already say about the DTM.

Earth
Anybody else think American Openwheel racing and NASCAR deserves their own individual forum? I think its kind of unfair to give F1 it's own forum but squish ALMS, NASCAR, IRL, WRC, and Champ Car into 1 large thread a piece into a generic 'drifting and other motorsport' foru m
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Hmmm, I agree. It does seem a bit ignorant and I've sort of grown tired of those fabulous series being ignored so I'm all for it. In fact, I think there are some users here that'll agree with me. I love all racing and feel that they should all get equal attention regardless of popularity.
 
yea this big mess between at&t and cingular or whatever. nascar just isn't gonna let them sponser his car.
 
toyota_gt1
yea this big mess between at&t and cingular or whatever. nascar just isn't gonna let them sponser his car.
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AT&T brought out singular(I think you guys know this) and at atlanta was finally when they let Jeff burton have AT&T sponsorship. The sponsorship deal also happened with Robby Gordon, who would later get away with it upon the discovery that Motorola made a CD player(clever move). I find the sponsorship deal with AT&T and the #1 car strange because Nextel apparently dosen't want any new cell phone sponsors in Nextel Cup yet there is no presence of AT&T, who are technically not new. You can probably guess why.
 
Good luck to all racers going to Bristol. My quick contribution is this:

Sharpie 500 - (Quick) Fact or Fiction?
* There will be at least 15 cautions.


Dale Jr.'s trying to make the Chase for the Cup. I think he will (though I'm not very fond of him). Do you?
 
Sharpie 500 - (Quick) Fact or Fiction?
* There will be at least 15 cautions.

FACT
This is Bristol at night.For some reason it always becomes a crash fest. I don't remember a nighttime race that didn't have less than 9 cautions.
 
FACT

Its Bristol so I'm not expecting anything different.
 
great busch race last night. those last 10 or so laps was wild. i was pullin' for newman but he got squeezed in the middle and blew a tire.

Fact
Dale jr. will not make the chase. there are 3 races left untill the cutoff. it is impossible for jr. to catch busch tonight. i believe the most you can gain on someone in 1 race is 156 points. jr. is 163 points behind busch.
 
I think Jr. will make the chase. Three races is enough for him to catch up and I have faith that he'll do it.
 
now jr is 158 points back. just over a full race with 2 races left. still think he's gonna make the chase?

the race at bristol was boring. glad that carl edwards won though.
 
toyota_gt1
now jr is 158 points back. just over a full race with 2 races left. still think he's gonna make the chase?

the race at bristol was boring. glad that carl edwards won though.
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I still have faith that he will. I've been pulling for him the entire race and he finished exactly where he needs to be: Ahead of Kurt Busch. And I am impressed with Kasey Kahne. Suddenly, he has performed alot better then he has most of the season.
 
RACECAR
I still have faith that he will. I've been pulling for him the entire race and he finished exactly where he needs to be: Ahead of Kurt Busch. And I am impressed with Kasey Kahne. Suddenly, he has performed alot better then he has most of the season.
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lol just 1 spot ahead of busch. kurt is really gonna have to have a problem at fontana or it is over. because when that race is over, and jr is over 156 points back. it's over. and coming off the win at michigan, a track almost idntical to fontana, kurt busch is gonna be strong.
 
Congratulations to Carl Edwards. I didn't see the race. I was watching the Texans vs. Cowboys game (HOU won 28-16). I did see the result of Carl Edwards winning. I'm proud because he's one of my favorite racers other than Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. I'm telling you... Carl Edwards is going to be a Cup Champion one day. Maybe even multiple-time champ. I love watching this guy light up the race track. Thought he was just a showoff in the past, but I think Carl Edwards is very cool.

I fear for Jeff Gordon because he's been a bit off the pace. He's still going to be a Chase guy anyways. Question is, will he stay in the fight and go for his fifth title? I'm hopeful. The #24 crew finished 19th at Bristol. Debate time...


John's Debate! Night Racing
A lot more races in Cup are campaigned at night. Do you think night racing makes for more exciting racing? Should there be more night races? What tracks and events?
 
gordon's loosing momentum, stewart and busch are gaining momentum. however, i think these guys are peaking too early. jeff gordon will most likely start on a roll here in a few races.
 
I say Dale Jr.'s out of the chase as long as Kurt Busch finishes right around him these next 2 races, like toyota_gt1 said, Kurt's gonna have to make some mistakes these next 2 races for Jr. to have a shot.

JohnBM01
John's Debate! Night Racing
A lot more races in Cup are campaigned at night. Do you think night racing makes for more exciting racing? Should there be more night races? What tracks and events?
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Night racing just ups the drivers emotions, especially at short tracks like Bristol (but there would be emotional drivers even if Bristol wasn't a night race). I don't think we need more night races, especially races run on the west coast because it makes it harder for those living on the east coast to stay up to midnight or so to watch.

toyota_gt1
gordon's loosing momentum, stewart and busch are gaining momentum. however, i think these guys are peaking too early. jeff gordon will most likely start on a roll here in a few races.
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Busch and Stewart are peaking at the right time, crunchtime for the chase, but I think once the chase starts, all the drivers that will be in will try just that much harder, because wins matter more in the chase than they do in the other 26 races.
 
TS
wins matter more in the chase than they do in the other 26 races.
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i'm afraid that i'm gonna have to disagree. wins mean the same as they did last year in the chase. wins in the first 26 races are very important. as you get 10 bonus points when the chase starts for every race you win. notice how hard that jeff gordon is trying to win. wheelhopped at the glen, stayed out and didn't pit late at michigan etc. he's doing so he can get those precious bonus points so he can have an advantage in the chase.
 
toyota_gt1
lol just 1 spot ahead of busch. kurt is really gonna have to have a problem at fontana or it is over. because when that race is over, and jr is over 156 points back. it's over. and coming off the win at michigan, a track almost idntical to fontana, kurt busch is gonna be strong.
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I know Kurt will be strong, but I feel as good as he did at bristol staying in the top 5 most of the race(I saw it on the live leaderboard),that he'll do it. I'm no hardcore junior fan, but I think he'll have luck with him.
 
I heard all the different complaints about the Sharpie 500. Carl Edwards won the race. I think he's going to be a Cup champion someday. Maybe even multiple-time champ. He said something I was in great agreement with despite all the complaining about the Bristol race. All I saw from the race were highlights. So it's time I sound off.


John Sounds Off! - Fewer Wrecks = Worse Racing?
Carl Edwards on WindTunnel talked about that you don't need to wreck people to have great racing. There was all the talk about how you go to Bristol to see wrecks. It's what the racing media sort of banks on that I disagree with entirely. Sure, crashes and wrecks offer some thrills to racing. However, this sort of thugging on the race track shouldn't happen even in the case of avoidable contact. I didn't fully grow up with NASCAR. I don't know Bristol as far as grooves or whatever. I say that excessive crashes and wrecks only makes for longer races, more p-o'ed drivers, and tougher impacts in championships. That sort of mentality has been instilled in most racing media I see nowadays in America. I don't see over-and-over impacts of crashes from European or Asian or Australian racing, so why us? Well it's simple. We are a country that loves sports like football and basketball- true contact sports where getting physical can give you a championship or make you wish you had a championship.

I grew greater appreciation for Carl Edwards in saying that you don't need to wreck somebody to win races. Races don't have to be crash-fests to be of anyone's entertainment. Part of the reason why I don't associate with most mainstream American race fans is because a good race to most people means crashes and wrecks and paint trading. You know... wrecks and crashes to the point where trying to win a race is insignificant. You essentially turn races into demolition derbies or lame Hollywood movies. Want an example of cars not wrecking each other and still being a great race? Look back at the 12 Hours of Sebring with the Risi Competizione (Houston's own) and Flying Lizard for the GT2 crown. The two cars roughed each other up on the final turn, but they didn't spin out or result in a fight after the race. Even the ALMS (see, I don't need to say "I hate to bring up a xxxxxxxx topic in a NASCAR thread" because NASCAR isn't atop the racing food chain) deemed that the race to the line wasn't foul. I just think circuit racing in the States has been more of crashes. Who remembers good finishes better than crashes? More people remember crashes because not many care about passes as much as any action. Greater numbers of crashes and cautions only makes racing like baseball- the waiting game. Waiting for racing to come back. Not 'recking, RACING.

As a final tidbit, do you teach your child how to race by talking about how to crash the other person out? Or do you tell the kid to race with class and don't be fascinated with wreck cars? Just something to think about the next time a race isn't exciting just because of fewer crashes.


Your thoughts on the racing action at Bristol? Or maybe you want to look ahead to California?
 
JohnBM01
I heard all the different complaints about the Sharpie 500. Carl Edwards won the race. I think he's going to be a Cup champion someday. Maybe even multiple-time champ. He said something I was in great agreement with despite all the complaining about the Bristol race. All I saw from the race were highlights. So it's time I sound off.


John Sounds Off! - Fewer Wrecks = Worse Racing?
Carl Edwards on WindTunnel talked about that you don't need to wreck people to have great racing. There was all the talk about how you go to Bristol to see wrecks. It's what the racing media sort of banks on that I disagree with entirely. Sure, crashes and wrecks offer some thrills to racing. However, this sort of thugging on the race track shouldn't happen even in the case of avoidable contact. I didn't fully grow up with NASCAR. I don't know Bristol as far as grooves or whatever. I say that excessive crashes and wrecks only makes for longer races, more p-o'ed drivers, and tougher impacts in championships. That sort of mentality has been instilled in most racing media I see nowadays in America. I don't see over-and-over impacts of crashes from European or Asian or Australian racing, so why us? Well it's simple. We are a country that loves sports like football and basketball- true contact sports where getting physical can give you a championship or make you wish you had a championship.

I grew greater appreciation for Carl Edwards in saying that you don't need to wreck somebody to win races. Races don't have to be crash-fests to be of anyone's entertainment. Part of the reason why I don't associate with most mainstream American race fans is because a good race to most people means crashes and wrecks and paint trading. You know... wrecks and crashes to the point where trying to win a race is insignificant. You essentially turn races into demolition derbies or lame Hollywood movies. Want an example of cars not wrecking each other and still being a great race? Look back at the 12 Hours of Sebring with the Risi Competizione (Houston's own) and Flying Lizard for the GT2 crown. The two cars roughed each other up on the final turn, but they didn't spin out or result in a fight after the race. Even the ALMS (see, I don't need to say "I hate to bring up a xxxxxxxx topic in a NASCAR thread" because NASCAR isn't atop the racing food chain) deemed that the race to the line wasn't foul. I just think circuit racing in the States has been more of crashes. Who remembers good finishes better than crashes? More people remember crashes because not many care about passes as much as any action. Greater numbers of crashes and cautions only makes racing like baseball- the waiting game. Waiting for racing to come back. Not 'recking, RACING.

As a final tidbit, do you teach your child how to race by talking about how to crash the other person out? Or do you tell the kid to race with class and don't be fascinated with wreck cars? Just something to think about the next time a race isn't exciting just because of fewer crashes.


Your thoughts on the racing action at Bristol? Or maybe you want to look ahead to California?
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I agree. I have posted in a thread somewhere here where I said the exact same thing. I wish bristol wasn't so glorified as a crash fest and its also a very horrid reason some people watch NASCAR. They don't care about the drivers or the teams, they just want someone into the wall.
 
toyota_gt1
i'm afraid that i'm gonna have to disagree. wins mean the same as they did last year in the chase. wins in the first 26 races are very important. as you get 10 bonus points when the chase starts for every race you win. notice how hard that jeff gordon is trying to win. wheelhopped at the glen, stayed out and didn't pit late at michigan etc. he's doing so he can get those precious bonus points so he can have an advantage in the chase.
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I don't think those 10 bonus points awarded for wins won't make much of a difference once the chase begins, all of the first 3 championships in the chase format have been won by less than 40 points. For example, let's say Jeff Gordon wins the next 2 races at Fontana and Richmond and goes into the 1st chase race at Loudon with a 70 point lead, he then has a mechanical failure and finishes 42nd, and another chase driver, let's say Clint Bowyer wins the race, he would (if the other 10 chasers, minus gordon who was 42nd) would gain 156 some points and jump from 12th place in points (provided he doesn't win the next 2 races) up to the top 5. Anybody in the title fight can start from towards the bottom, starts a hot-streak of top-5 finishes & wins and the front runners get caught up in bad luck, then we'll have a hell of a race to the title come homestead.

JohnBM01
Your thoughts on the racing action at Bristol? Or maybe you want to look ahead to California?
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I thought that the racing at Bristol was really great, first there was actual side by side racing since the old pavement days. As to why I underlined racing in the previous sentence, it's because one, most of the atypical NASCAR fans think that Bristol's racing is only good when drivers knock the holy **** out of each other, the new pavement + the new progressive banking made Saturday's cup race, Friday's Busch race & Wednesday's truck race very entertaining. If you have to have Bristol racing to be a wreck-fest, just let the new pavement get a little aged, wait for goodyear to bring a softer tire, then you'll see the side by side racing + the bump 'n run days of old.
 
So this new pavement style and less of whacking guys into the wall... a victory for NASCAR, or a defeat? A victory for racing, or defeat? I mean victory and defeat in terms of... does this help NASCAR in teaching that you don't have to whack someone's fenders just to try to win a race? Victory/defeat in terms of the fact that you don't need to have typical short track thugging to have a great race? And do you think this Sharpie 500 teaches certain race fans that racing is still prevalent in NASCAR and doesn't require sending people into the wall?
 
JohnBM01
So this new pavement style and less of whacking guys into the wall... a victory for NASCAR, or a defeat? A victory for racing, or defeat? I mean victory and defeat in terms of... does this help NASCAR in teaching that you don't have to whack someone's fenders just to try to win a race? Victory/defeat in terms of the fact that you don't need to have typical short track thugging to have a great race? And do you think this Sharpie 500 teaches certain race fans that racing is still prevalent in NASCAR and doesn't require sending people into the wall?
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you posted. NASCAR has taken enough bashing from other sports that have claimed that it's just a bunch of rednecks driving in circles and knocking each other into walls, they want it to become a world class sport that rivals series like F1, or FIA GT.

Also, it's become official that 1997 F1 world champion Jacques Villenueve will drive the #36 for Bill Davis Racing in the '08 season. There's also been speculation that Scott Speed, who was recently let go of his ride in the Scuderia Toro Rosso car in F1 may move to NASCAR for the Red Bull Team and may replace AJ Allmendinger, I'd like to know what you guys think of drivers coming from other racing series (be it ALMS, Rolex sports cars, IRL, Champ Car, F1 or whatever) to NASCAR. Do you think that it makes the entire field have to step up their game? Do you think that it makes it harder for some small name team with a small name driver make it when they go up against big name drivers with big name teams? Or do you think that their impact on the sport isn't big enough to judge yet?
 
Hopefully NASCAR will do what CART had to do when foreign interest started growing in the series and start running more road courses. Now THAT would be cool.

Dave
 
i agree. this is gonna be a big gain for toyota now that they have the likes of tony stewart, denny hamlin and kyle busch coming there.
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2999644&campaign=rss&source=RPMHeadlines

Kyle Busch did confirm that JGR will go to Toyota in '08 & there will be a press conference Wednesday regarding the Joe Gibbs manufacturer switch. I say it's a good move for Toyota as next year, all the cars will be the same and the only differences will be engines & manufacturer stickers. I've did some snooping around (as I have that sort of time) and apparently Team Red Bull will be a satelite team to JGR in '08. Hall Of Fame Racing (the current satelite team of Joe Gibbs) will get resources from RCR in '08.

EDIT: Did some more research on the HOF/Joe Gibbs manufacturer issue. Appears that Hall of Fame racing is considering following their parent team (Joe Gibbs Racing) in a manufacturer switch to Toyota, but they also have the option of opting out of their contract with Gibbs if the do go to Toyota and may start a relationship with Hendrick or RCR.
 
With Gibbs switching to Toyota, "Its Time to trade up"
 
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